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Blackstone K-27 - Adding Weight

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  • Tom
    I know the subject of adding weight to increase pulling power has been discussed before (in great detail), but not sure I ve seen any specific technique and
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 1, 2010
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      I know the subject of adding weight to increase pulling power has been discussed before (in great detail), but not sure I've seen any specific technique and results of adding weight to a Blackstone K-27. Would be interested in anyone's experiences and results.
      Thanks,
      Tom
    • Jim Vail
      There just isn t any room inside the Blackstone K-27 boiler or chassis to add any weight that I could find. However in the big plow pilot on my 464 I was able
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 1, 2010
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        There just isn't any room inside the Blackstone K-27 boiler or chassis
        to add any weight that I could find. However in the big plow pilot on
        my 464 I was able to hide about 1/2 oz. (I think) of weight and that
        increased the pulling power of that loco about one car. While testing a
        Blackstone I taped 2 or 3 oz. outside the boiler and that engine would
        pull like a brass engine - 10 or 11 cars on my 2 1/2% grades, lumps and
        bumps!

        Jim Vail

        Tom wrote:
        >
        >
        > Would be interested in anyone's experiences and results.
        > Thanks,
        > Tom
        >
        >
      • Dennis Larson
        I m trying to get up courage to paint the front driver set with rubber cement thinned with MEK, as suggested by someone on this forum. Dennis
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 1, 2010
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          I'm trying to get up courage to paint the front driver set with rubber
          cement thinned with MEK, as suggested by someone on this forum.
          Dennis
        • Al
          Try a product called Bull Frog Snot! No kidding that is what it is called. Al ... From: Dennis Larson To: HOn3@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 1, 2010
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            Try a product called Bull Frog Snot! No kidding that is what it is called.

            Al


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Dennis Larson
            To: HOn3@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 7:05 PM
            Subject: Re: [HOn3] Blackstone K-27 - Adding Weight



            I'm trying to get up courage to paint the front driver set with rubber
            cement thinned with MEK, as suggested by someone on this forum.
            Dennis




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Rick Newton
            From a slightly different perspective, with varying mileage, why add weight? I realize there are varying degrees to what people are trying to achieve with
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 1, 2010
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              From a slightly different perspective, with varying mileage, why add
              weight? I realize there are varying degrees to what people are trying
              to achieve with their modeling, but how many your cars your locos can
              pull should become your tonnage limits for your operations, including
              how your loco pulls on your ruling grade. Need to run more cars, add
              power, or double the hill...

              I understand many of the caveats of what I am suggesting, such as
              available locos, or the desire to run long trains, but my K27s will
              pull at least 10 to 12 BS cars up my 3% grade with the entire train on
              the grade (my Ks are still relatively new, though) Bit of a struggle,
              but if tonnage is too much, here comes the helper.

              As I said , obviously I don't know the complete reasons, but it's food
              for thought, in any case.

              Rick N
              Hillsboro, MO

              from Rick's mobile device

              On Jan 1, 2010, at 12:39 PM, Jim Vail <akacoot@...> wrote:

              > There just isn't any room inside the Blackstone K-27 boiler or chassis
              > to add any weight that I could find. However in the big plow pilot on
              > my 464 I was able to hide about 1/2 oz. (I think) of weight and that
              > increased the pulling power of that loco about one car. While
              > testing a
              > Blackstone I taped 2 or 3 oz. outside the boiler and that engine
              > would
              > pull like a brass engine - 10 or 11 cars on my 2 1/2% grades, lumps
              > and
              > bumps!
              >
              > Jim Vail
              >
              > Tom wrote:
              >>
              >>
              >> Would be interested in anyone's experiences and results.
              >> Thanks,
              >> Tom
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > HOn3 list web pages are:
              > http://www.railwayeng.com/hon3/
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/archive/Hon3/
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/files/HOn3/
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
            • Dennis Larson
              ... power, or double the hill... Most of my cars now have BS trucks and my K-27s pull 6 or 7 cars up a 3 percent grade. That is about the right length for my
              Message 6 of 12 , Jan 1, 2010
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                > Need to run more cars, add
                power, or double the hill...

                Most of my cars now have BS trucks and my K-27s pull 6 or 7 cars up a 3
                percent grade. That is about the right length for my sidings and
                operations. I notice the new BS cabooses add a bit of drag since they're
                not free rolling. Anyway, at least I planned ahead for double headed
                operations and I have functioning wyes and round-around tracks at the
                lower and upper ends of my climb to Lizard Head Pass.

                Dennis
                >
              • Tom
                Jim, that was my quick observation also. Will have to try the weight behind the plow on my 464. Thanks. Tom
                Message 7 of 12 , Jan 1, 2010
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                  Jim, that was my quick observation also. Will have to try the weight behind the plow on my 464. Thanks.
                  Tom

                  --- In HOn3@yahoogroups.com, Jim Vail <akacoot@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > There just isn't any room inside the Blackstone K-27 boiler or chassis
                  > to add any weight that I could find. However in the big plow pilot on
                  > my 464 I was able to hide about 1/2 oz. (I think) of weight and that
                  > increased the pulling power of that loco about one car. While testing a
                  > Blackstone I taped 2 or 3 oz. outside the boiler and that engine would
                  > pull like a brass engine - 10 or 11 cars on my 2 1/2% grades, lumps and
                  > bumps!
                  >
                  > Jim Vail
                  >
                • Tom
                  Rick, I undrstand and appreciate your perspective. But with the drag of the new BS caboose, I am only getting 3 cars up my 4% grade (and yes around a curve).
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jan 1, 2010
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                    Rick, I undrstand and appreciate your perspective. But with the drag of the new BS caboose, I am only getting 3 cars up my 4% grade (and yes around a curve). With a non 'drag' caboose I was getting 1-2 cars more - will have to fiddle to reduce the drag from BS caboose wipers - but thanks to Laurie, I want to maintain electrical PU. In retrospect, wish I had held the grade to 3% - but way too late for that now!
                    Tom

                    --- In HOn3@yahoogroups.com, Rick Newton <newtonrick@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > From a slightly different perspective, with varying mileage, why add
                    > weight? I realize there are varying degrees to what people are trying
                    > to achieve with their modeling, but how many your cars your locos can
                    > pull should become your tonnage limits for your operations, including
                    > how your loco pulls on your ruling grade. Need to run more cars, add
                    > power, or double the hill...
                    >
                    > I understand many of the caveats of what I am suggesting, such as
                    > available locos, or the desire to run long trains, but my K27s will
                    > pull at least 10 to 12 BS cars up my 3% grade with the entire train on
                    > the grade (my Ks are still relatively new, though) Bit of a struggle,
                    > but if tonnage is too much, here comes the helper.
                    >
                    > As I said , obviously I don't know the complete reasons, but it's food
                    > for thought, in any case.
                    >
                    > Rick N
                    > Hillsboro, MO
                    >
                    >
                  • Tom
                    Bill & Al- Sounds interesting! Anyone else have any experience with snot (in a MRR sense)? Thanks, Tom
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jan 1, 2010
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                      Bill & Al-
                      Sounds interesting! Anyone else have any experience with snot (in a MRR sense)?
                      Thanks,
                      Tom

                      --- In HOn3@yahoogroups.com, Bill Fornshell <bfornshell@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi, 
                      > Bull Frog Snot does sort of work to increase traction but it will also insulate the wheels from your rail current if applied to heavy. I would only use it on wheels that do not have wipers on them.
                      > Bill in Texas
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                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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                    • briar1@fuse.net
                      ... Just choose your operation for your own rr. and enjoy.thats why we build the any way isn,t it. run what you can and always remember model rring. is fun.
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jan 1, 2010
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                        ----I agree since replacement of the grant line and mdc trucks with the bs and mt. trucks I have been able to just for the funof it run some very long trains over my main. Christmas eve I was playing around and wound up with 4 locos and 45 cars of varing weights but none less than 1.75 oz. It can be alot of fun trying to get 45 cars turned on my reverse loop. I had to remove 3 cars and the combine to fit the rest in the loop. Its a lot of fun when you have locos that are pretty well sync. right out of the box. I have 5 of the BS. locos and 9 Hallmark EBT locos.that I can run together.
                        Just choose your operation for your own rr. and enjoy.thats why we build the any way isn,t it.
                        run what you can and always remember model rring. is fun.

                        RIC CASE
                        EBT RR
                        Hamilton 'Ohio








                        Al <a.lautenslager@...> wrote:
                        > Try a
                        >
                        > Al
                        >
                        > this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • Rick Newton (RNP)
                        Hi Tom, I do understand the issues with the BS cabooses, but I think as suggested by many, adding a conductive lubricant to the axles will work well, and I
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jan 1, 2010
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                          Hi Tom,

                          I do understand the issues with the BS cabooses, but I think as suggested by
                          many, adding a conductive lubricant to the axles will work well, and I think
                          there are others who have reported after some breaking in, the wipers will
                          loosen up on their resistance. Obviously this doesn't help in the short
                          term, but operationally, there are always ways of accounting for less
                          tonnage up a hill, such as rain, snow, dragging brakes, etc. Operating
                          conditions change on a daily basis, so why shouldn't our modeling?
                          Personally, I don't have a need for the wipers, and would pull them
                          completely off, but for the moment, I am not (because never say
                          never...<g>). I have bent them back ever so slightly to reduce the drag
                          some, but so far have not added any lubricant. I am sure I will in the near
                          future, though. Of course, the extra drag is always helpful when having to
                          do some switching, when part of your train is on a grade...

                          However, again, I understand that everybody has different methods of doing
                          things, and I have to respect how people want to do things. Although I'm
                          not always successful, on occasion, I like to think outside the envelope,
                          and least what the norm would be.

                          As a side, I have a short 4% grade on my layout, about 6 or 7 car lengths.
                          I ran a caboose hop the other day with 3 cabooses, and I was grinding my way
                          up something fierce, darn near didn't make it. Would've been a bit
                          embarrassing running the helpers out to shove a 3 car caboose hop up the
                          hill...<g> Bet I grooved the rail a bit that day...

                          Rick N


                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: HOn3@yahoogroups.com [mailto:HOn3@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom
                          Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 10:06 PM
                          To: HOn3@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [HOn3] Re: Blackstone K-27 - Adding Weight

                          Rick, I undrstand and appreciate your perspective. But with the drag of the
                          new BS caboose, I am only getting 3 cars up my 4% grade (and yes around a
                          curve). With a non 'drag' caboose I was getting 1-2 cars more - will have
                          to fiddle to reduce the drag from BS caboose wipers - but thanks to Laurie,
                          I want to maintain electrical PU. In retrospect, wish I had held the grade
                          to 3% - but way too late for that now!
                          Tom

                          --- In HOn3@yahoogroups.com, Rick Newton <newtonrick@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > From a slightly different perspective, with varying mileage, why add
                          > weight? I realize there are varying degrees to what people are trying
                          > to achieve with their modeling, but how many your cars your locos can
                          > pull should become your tonnage limits for your operations, including
                          > how your loco pulls on your ruling grade. Need to run more cars, add
                          > power, or double the hill...
                          >
                          > I understand many of the caveats of what I am suggesting, such as
                          > available locos, or the desire to run long trains, but my K27s will
                          > pull at least 10 to 12 BS cars up my 3% grade with the entire train on
                          > the grade (my Ks are still relatively new, though) Bit of a struggle,
                          > but if tonnage is too much, here comes the helper.
                          >
                          > As I said , obviously I don't know the complete reasons, but it's food
                          > for thought, in any case.
                          >
                          > Rick N
                          > Hillsboro, MO
                          >
                          >



                          ------------------------------------

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                        • wcbeverly
                          Here is a thought, since most of the BS K-27s are DCC, synchronize the speed of 2 K-27s by using the speed curve in decoder pro. Then build a consist between
                          Message 12 of 12 , Jan 1, 2010
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                            Here is a thought, since most of the BS K-27s are DCC, synchronize the speed of 2 K-27s by using the speed curve in decoder pro.

                            Then build a consist between the two engines and double head the hill. Now you have twice the pulling power.

                            The RGS also would split the train, run the hill and come back down for the second half. Nothing wrong with operating like the RGS did.

                            Bill Beverly


                            --- In HOn3@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <tomp1000@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I know the subject of adding weight to increase pulling power has been discussed before (in great detail), but not sure I've seen any specific technique and results of adding weight to a Blackstone K-27. Would be interested in anyone's experiences and results.
                            > Thanks,
                            > Tom
                            >
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