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Re: [HOn3] SML Source

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  • Mike Conder
    http://www.miniatronics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=6 Available through N Scale Supply in Arvada, who used to have a storefront at
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 3, 2009
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      http://www.miniatronics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=6

      Available through N Scale Supply in Arvada, who used to have a storefront at Kipling & I-70 ... but I couldn't find it yesterday 8^(

      http://www.nscalesupply.com/
       Mike Conder

      Curt wrote:

      > ... What's a good source for wired surface mount LED's


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Laurie McLean
      Richmond Controls is the place for the SMLed s. The GOLDEN WHITE are what I use on my locos - Part No. GW0603-WT06. http://www.richmondcontrols.com/ Jim at RC
      Message 2 of 16 , Jan 3, 2009
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        Richmond Controls is the place for the SMLed's. The GOLDEN WHITE are
        what I use on my locos - Part No. GW0603-WT06.

        http://www.richmondcontrols.com/

        Jim at RC is very helpful & will answer any questions you may have
        plus he has some excellent information on what resistor to use.
        He has a couple of photos of my HOn3 girls in his gallery

        The "Sunny White" SMLed's are very white & to me not for steam locos
        more for diesels loco use.

        Be sure & get the SMLed's with the enamel wire on the SML - Jim has
        these done at the factory & for the cost of having these with the
        enamel wires I recon its good value.

        A couple of tips -

        If you need to run the enamel wires through a hole in the brass body
        of a loco countersink BOTH sides of the hole to prevent the sharp
        hole edge possibly cutting the enamel insulation & shorting.

        The enamel wires are soldered to the pads on the SML, you will need
        to insulate the SML from the brass headlight casting.
        I use 0.010" black or white styrene to make a tiny washer & drill a
        #76 hole for the wires to run through & glue the SML to the styrene
        using Weldbond. I let this set overnight.

        Try several 1/4 watt resistors until you get the desired lux from
        the SML, I keep 1k, 1.5k, 2.7k & 3k & usually go with one of these.
        Do this at the workbench until you find the best illumination, the
        slight yellow tint of the Golden White SML looks real.

        Looking head on to the front of the loco you can get a slightly
        different illumination by mounting the SML vertical or horizontal in
        the headlight casting.

        Adding a lense will also make a difference to how the light looks &
        works. I have tried the MV lenses & scraped of the silver backing &
        this makes the SML more yellow-ish.

        I also use a wad punch & punch out a bunch of clear styrene lenses &
        choose the best from the bunch. I do this on a block of hardwood on
        the end grain & some of the clear styrene end up slightly curved
        which also gives another effect.

        There is lots to experiment with & you can also use gloss medium,
        I've even used Weldbond as it dries clear.

        The tiny enamel wires that come with the SML have one wire longer
        than the other. The LONG wire I use for the BLUE decoder wire & I
        connect the resistor to the WHITE wire. Works for me every time.

        Just make sure you go gently & place insulation (heat shrink tube)
        over the solder joins etc for obvious reasons. You can coil the
        excess enamel wire & maybe use some tape to hold the wires so they
        tuck inside the boiler - just use care here so the wires.

        Test the SML beforehand - use a 9v battery & a resistor.

        Hope this helps, just ask if you need any more.

        Regards,

        Laurie
      • hamtrains1
        Thanks guys. I didn t know the suppliers were so limited! Laurie, thx especially for your tips. I know you covered it in your Laurie University, but you sent a
        Message 3 of 16 , Jan 3, 2009
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          Thanks guys. I didn't know the suppliers were so limited! Laurie, thx
          especially for your tips. I know you covered it in your Laurie
          University, but you sent a great summary! I wondered about the color.
          You seem to be in agreement with Richmond Controls for steam headlight
          color. Since I'm doing the decoder install I may as well change out
          the GOW lamp. Curt

          --- In HOn3@yahoogroups.com, "hamtrains1" <hamtrains1@...> wrote:

          > What's a good source for wired surface mount LED's?
          >
        • captaindavekrembs
          I get my SMLEDs through Southern Digital R.R. Hobbies. they may be the same but $2.40 each and fast service. www.sodigi.com Dave ... noticed Litchfield Station
          Message 4 of 16 , Jan 3, 2009
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            I get my SMLEDs through Southern Digital R.R. Hobbies. they may be
            the same but $2.40 each and fast service.
            www.sodigi.com
            Dave
            --- In HOn3@yahoogroups.com, <bdunlevy@...> wrote:
            >
            > Curt,
            >
            > I think Richmond Controls maybe the only source of these. I
            noticed Litchfield Station sells the Richmond Controls SML's. I
            believe they are $3.00 each. This is where Laurie gets his from.
            >
            > http://www.richmondcontrols.com
            >
            > Hope this helps.
            >
            > Bruce
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Mark Kasprowicz
            Curt, Laurie s description is as good as it gets but don t be limited to the range of resistors. Higher values tend to produce a nice wind up effect as the
            Message 5 of 16 , Jan 3, 2009
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              Curt,

              Laurie's description is as good as it gets but don't be limited to the range of resistors. Higher
              values tend to produce a nice wind up effect as the generator cranks up (with Tsunami's) and
              as these are low current devices large increases in resistor value, even up to 10K still operate
              nicely.

              Do swap out the GOW if you can. I started to use MV lenses from Caboose (though they tend
              to be in short supply sometimes) These warmer whites really look the part when the backs
              are filed and the SML glued to them. I believe they are used in the Blackstone K-127's too.

              Mark
            • Laurie McLean
              Mark, good info from you, I ve not tried anything larger than 3k resistors but you have me wanting to experiment & I will so I thank you for your comments. And
              Message 6 of 16 , Jan 4, 2009
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                Mark, good info from you, I've not tried anything larger than 3k
                resistors but you have me wanting to experiment & I will so I thank
                you for your comments.

                And I do agree to get rid of bulb lights & install LED's Or SML's as
                they draw less from decoders & last longer. (if possible)

                Thank you again mate.

                Laurie


                "Mark Kasprowicz" wrote:
                >
                > Curt,
                >
                > Laurie's description is as good as it gets but don't be limited to
                the range of resistors. Higher
                > values tend to produce a nice wind up effect as the generator
                cranks up (with Tsunami's) and
                > as these are low current devices large increases in resistor
                value, even up to 10K still operate
                > nicely.
                >
                > Do swap out the GOW if you can. I started to use MV lenses from
                Caboose (though they tend
                > to be in short supply sometimes) These warmer whites really look
                the part when the backs
                > are filed and the SML glued to them. I believe they are used in
                the Blackstone K-127's too.
                >
                > Mark
                >
              • tomp1000
                Slightly off subject, but I am about ready to add a SMT headlight as part of a DCC conversion. My question, DCC has a dim capability for the headlight. I
                Message 7 of 16 , Jan 4, 2009
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                  Slightly off subject, but I am about ready to add a SMT headlight as
                  part of a DCC conversion. My question, DCC has a 'dim' capability
                  for the headlight. I believe SMT devices have a threshold voltage,
                  below whick the smt won't function and generally doesn't dim with
                  lower voltage like bulbs. In your experience, does the 'dim'
                  function work with the smt's you have installed?
                  Thanks,
                  Tom Peterman

                  --- In HOn3@yahoogroups.com, "Laurie McLean" <narrowgaugetrain@...>
                  wrote:

                  >
                  > Test the SML beforehand - use a 9v battery & a resistor.
                  >
                  > Hope this helps, just ask if you need any more.
                  >
                  > Regards,
                  >
                  > Laurie
                  >
                • Laurie McLean
                  G Day Tom, SMT = Surface Mount Technology, not sure what you mean when you stated SMT . I can provide the following links, the first link has some very useful
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jan 4, 2009
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                    G'Day Tom, SMT = Surface Mount Technology, not sure what you mean
                    when you stated "SMT".

                    I can provide the following links, the first link has some very
                    useful information regarding soldering SMD's at the bottom of the
                    page.

                    The second link is the International Atomic Energy Agency
                    (Instrument Unit) that also has some very helpful explanations &
                    information as well as some history.
                    This would be helpful to any here wanting to know more about the new
                    technology & what is ahead for electronics etc. It explains things
                    in pretty simple terms for novice "sparkys" to follow to a fair
                    degree - well I think so anyway!

                    http://www.fpga4fun.com/SMD.html

                    http://www.fpga4fun.com/external/SMD/smdman.pdf

                    As for the low voltage you mention Tom, this SMD is still new to me
                    too. I have been tinkering with the SMD Led's as you know & trying
                    various resistor values but Mark K may have hit on something new
                    with larger values - up to 10k he mentions. I have only used 1k to
                    3k resistors in my HOn3 locos so far using SMD Led's (I call them
                    SML's - surface mount leds but this is not the correct term but its
                    is easier explaining things for me)

                    One thing that sticks in my mind when working with decoders is to
                    keep the power draw as low as I can so it is not working at or near
                    the maximum limits. This way I recon the decoder will stay a little
                    cooler & its life expectancy should be long. I just don't push them
                    to the max. The same reason with the new High Bass speakers - these
                    too don't get pushed to the max but I can get the beautiful sounds
                    out of them.

                    I don't have the equipment to accurately be able to measure the low
                    voltage you mention but I would guess (!) it would be less than 1v.

                    I experiment a fair bit & tinker to discover & uncover things &
                    maybe you can find things out & share what the results are ?

                    That's the best I can come up with at the moment - the links I hope
                    help.

                    Regards,

                    Laurie


                    Tom wrote:
                    >
                    > Slightly off subject, but I am about ready to add a SMT headlight
                    as
                    > part of a DCC conversion. My question, DCC has a 'dim' capability
                    > for the headlight. I believe SMT devices have a threshold
                    voltage,
                    > below whick the smt won't function and generally doesn't dim with
                    > lower voltage like bulbs. In your experience, does the 'dim'
                    > function work with the smt's you have installed?
                    > Thanks,
                    > Tom Peterman
                    >
                    > --- In HOn3@yahoogroups.com, "Laurie McLean" <narrowgaugetrain@>
                    > wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    > > Test the SML beforehand - use a 9v battery & a resistor.
                    > >
                    > > Hope this helps, just ask if you need any more.
                    > >
                    > > Regards,
                    > >
                    > > Laurie
                    > >
                    >
                  • Laurie McLean
                    Tom & others, try this: http://led.linear1.org/category/led-basics/ should help explain, Laurie
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jan 4, 2009
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                      Tom & others, try this:

                      http://led.linear1.org/category/led-basics/

                      should help explain,

                      Laurie
                    • tomp1000
                      Sorry Laurie and others for any confusion. What I was trying to ask, when using SMT LED (Richmond control LED) and you activate the dim function (default
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jan 4, 2009
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                        Sorry Laurie and others for any confusion. What I was trying to ask,
                        when using SMT LED (Richmond control LED) and you activate the 'dim'
                        function (default mapped to F7 on Tsunami), do the lights (LED) dim, or
                        stay the same, or go out?
                        Tom

                        --- In HOn3@yahoogroups.com, "Laurie McLean" <narrowgaugetrain@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > G'Day Tom, SMT = Surface Mount Technology, not sure what you mean
                        > when you stated "SMT".
                        >

                        > > > Regards,
                        > > >
                        > > > Laurie
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • Mike Conder
                        THEORETICALLY .... In general, LED s are a current-based device with a constant voltage, while bulbs are a voltage-based device with a constant reistance. 
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jan 4, 2009
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                          THEORETICALLY ....

                          In general, LED's are a current-based device with a constant voltage, while bulbs are a voltage-based device with a constant reistance.  What this means is that, as long as the voltage level is a bit over 1-1/2 volts or so, there will be current flowing through the LED and it should light up.  The higher resistors reduce the current, which is the same effect as a lower supply voltage.  For example, if a light looks good with a 1,000 ohm resistor at 13-1/2 volts, it should look ABOUT the same as a 500 ohm at 7-1/2 volts. 

                          All this follows Ohm's law ... V=I*R.  This can be rearranged as I = V / R, where the V is the supply voltage less the LED voltage drop (i.e., 13.5 - 1.5 or 12V).

                          All this is approximate and theroetical, of course.  Best thing to do is to set up the decoder on a test stand and see how the dimmed light looks.  Play with the resistors until you get a light you like at both undimmed and dimmed conditions.
                           Mike Conder

                          Tom Peterman wrote:

                          > My question, DCC has a 'dim' capability for the headlight. I believe SMT devices have a threshold voltage, below whick the smt won't function and generally doesn't dim with lower voltage like bulbs. In your experience, does the 'dim' function work with the smt's you have installed?


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Michael Pulling
                          Ngineering http://www.ngineering.com/ is another source. Michael
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jan 4, 2009
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                            Ngineering http://www.ngineering.com/ is another source.

                            Michael
                          • Rex Beistle
                            ... snip Dimming is accomplished by turning the lamp or LED of off and on in the same Pulse Width Modulation scheme used for motor control. When the lamp
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jan 4, 2009
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                              --- In HOn3@yahoogroups.com, "tomp1000" <tomp1000@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Sorry Laurie and others for any confusion. What I was trying to ask,
                              > when using SMT LED (Richmond control LED) and you activate the 'dim'
                              > function (default mapped to F7 on Tsunami), do the lights (LED) dim,
                              > or stay the same, or go out?
                              > Tom
                              >
                              snip

                              "Dimming" is accomplished by turning the lamp or LED of off and on in
                              the same "Pulse Width Modulation" scheme used for motor control. When
                              the lamp or LED is on, it is on 100%. When off, it is quite completely
                              off. The eye 'integrates' the light seen and you think that the light
                              source has been dimmed.

                              The problem is that incandescent lamps, even the tiny little things we
                              use, take time to turn on and to turn off as well. LEDs turn on and
                              off virtually instantly. The behavior of the eye, combined with the
                              difference in turn/off time of lamps versus LED, requires that the
                              pulse on versus off time percentages of the decoder change depending
                              upon whether an LED or an incandescent lamp is being used.

                              You will have to experiment with the dimming setup to accomodate LEDs
                              or incandescent lamps.

                              The Tsunami users guide includes the following. "LED Compensation
                              Mode - Tsunami's lighting effects can be used with either incandescent
                              bulbs or LEDs. However, because of their differences in brightness
                              characteristics, some lighting effects will appear less life-like when
                              initially set up with an LED. To correct this, Tsunami's LED
                              compensation mode should be enabled which will improve the contrast of
                              the lighting effect by automatically adjusting the function output
                              level to correct for the different brightness characteristics of an
                              LED."

                              I think that you will be quite happy with LEDs when used with the
                              Tsunami decoder.




                              Rex Beistle
                              Northern Colorado - USA
                            • tomp1000
                              Thanks Rex, great explanation and I certainly learned something. That is exactly the kind of information I was looking for. Once again this Group proves to be
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jan 4, 2009
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                                Thanks Rex, great explanation and I certainly learned something.
                                That is exactly the kind of information I was looking for. Once
                                again this Group proves to be a wonderful and valuable source of
                                information.
                                Tom Peterman

                                --- In HOn3@yahoogroups.com, "Rex Beistle" <train346@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > --- In HOn3@yahoogroups.com, "tomp1000" <tomp1000@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Sorry Laurie and others for any confusion. What I was trying to
                                ask,
                                > > when using SMT LED (Richmond control LED) and you activate
                                the 'dim'
                                > > function (default mapped to F7 on Tsunami), do the lights (LED)
                                dim,
                                > > or stay the same, or go out?
                                > > Tom
                                > >
                                > snip
                                >
                                > "Dimming" is accomplished by turning the lamp or LED of off and on
                                in
                                > the same "Pulse Width Modulation" scheme used for motor control.
                                When
                                > the lamp or LED is on, it is on 100%. When off, it is quite
                                completely
                                > off. The eye 'integrates' the light seen and you think that the
                                light
                                > source has been dimmed.
                                >
                                > The problem is that incandescent lamps, even the tiny little things
                                we
                                > use, take time to turn on and to turn off as well. LEDs turn on
                                and
                                > off virtually instantly. The behavior of the eye, combined with
                                the
                                > difference in turn/off time of lamps versus LED, requires that the
                                > pulse on versus off time percentages of the decoder change
                                depending
                                > upon whether an LED or an incandescent lamp is being used.
                                >
                                > You will have to experiment with the dimming setup to accomodate
                                LEDs
                                > or incandescent lamps.
                                >
                                > The Tsunami users guide includes the following. "LED Compensation
                                > Mode - Tsunami's lighting effects can be used with either
                                incandescent
                                > bulbs or LEDs. However, because of their differences in brightness
                                > characteristics, some lighting effects will appear less life-like
                                when
                                > initially set up with an LED. To correct this, Tsunami's LED
                                > compensation mode should be enabled which will improve the contrast
                                of
                                > the lighting effect by automatically adjusting the function output
                                > level to correct for the different brightness characteristics of an
                                > LED."
                                >
                                > I think that you will be quite happy with LEDs when used with the
                                > Tsunami decoder.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Rex Beistle
                                > Northern Colorado - USA
                                >
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