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Re: [HOn3] older engines and dcc

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  • Brett Payne
    Bob (and Mark), What I was trying to get at was that depending on the motor control circuit design the decoder may need to dissipate electrons as heat at
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 2, 2007
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      Bob (and Mark),
      What I was trying to get at was that depending on the motor control
      circuit design the decoder may need to dissipate electrons as heat at
      slower speed settings. Usually this may not be a problem but if
      running for extended period at slow speeds it could become one.

      Then again the current draw of otherwise identical consolidations may
      differ because of a really small bind or similar causing mechanical
      friction. And so on.

      But I see that the DN163s are rated at 1.25 and 1.5 amp (2 amp peak).
      The DZ123 is rated at 1 amp. Sometime the manufacturers current rating
      can be all to close to maximum tolerances. I would definitely try a
      replacement decoder in place of the DZ123,

      Brett

      snookdust@... wrote:
      > Thanks for the help Brett---the other engine has a dn163 or? dn something.So
      > at slower speeds there is actually more heat? I worked with 440 v motors but
      > not familiar with heat in those smaller ones----Bob V.
      >
      >


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    • Mark Kasprowicz
      ... Brett, I am not sure I understand this at all. Could you explain why this happens. M
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 3, 2007
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        --- In HOn3@yahoogroups.com, Brett Payne <brett.payne@...> wrote:
        >
        > Bob (and Mark),
        > What I was trying to get at was that depending on the motor control
        > circuit design the decoder may need to dissipate electrons as heat at
        > slower speed settings.

        Brett,
        I am not sure I understand this at all. Could you explain why this
        happens.

        M
      • Brett Payne
        Mark, My observation comes from an NCE-DASR decoder installed in a Proto 2000 SD-9. When run for an extended period at slow speed with the hood off I noticed
        Message 3 of 6 , Feb 3, 2007
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          Mark,
          My observation comes from an NCE-DASR decoder installed in a Proto 2000
          SD-9. When run for an extended period at slow speed with the hood off I
          noticed the decoder became very warm (almost hot). Same loco was later
          run at track speed say scale 45MPH and the decoder stayed noticeably
          cooler. I have been able to reproduce this with other loco's with the
          same decoder type these decoders were all bought at the same time in a 5
          pack..

          I have not seen the same situation with TCS decoders.

          Brett

          Mark Kasprowicz wrote:
          > --- In HOn3@yahoogroups.com, Brett Payne <brett.payne@...> wrote:
          >
          >> Bob (and Mark),
          >> What I was trying to get at was that depending on the motor control
          >> circuit design the decoder may need to dissipate electrons as heat at
          >> slower speed settings.
          >>
          >
          > Brett,
          > I am not sure I understand this at all. Could you explain why this
          > happens.
          >
          > M
          >
          >


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        • Mark Kasprowicz
          Brett, Interesting. I ve not conducted a similar experiment. I m still not in agreement with your idea of the decoder blowing off electrons as it should only
          Message 4 of 6 , Feb 4, 2007
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            Brett,

            Interesting. I've not conducted a similar experiment. I'm still not
            in agreement with your idea of the decoder 'blowing off electrons' as
            it should only draw from its power supply that which the motor
            demands of it. But I've not heard of decoders running hot at low
            speed and then performing normally at higher ones because as you
            infer the current draw is low at low speeds or least it should be.
            Back to the drawing board.

            BTW I tried your idea of insulating frogs as close to the point as
            possible on a section of track that I was relaying and have to say it
            is a marked improvement. Those locos which occasionally used to short
            out on turnouts now glide through without hesitation. When I get back
            home I will alter the rest of the turnouts.

            Thanks for that!

            Mark



            .--- In HOn3@yahoogroups.com, Brett Payne <brett.payne@...> wrote:
            >
            > Mark,
            > My observation comes from an NCE-DASR decoder installed in a Proto
            2000
            > SD-9. When run for an extended period at slow speed with the hood
            off I
            > noticed the decoder became very warm (almost hot). Same loco was
            later
            > run at track speed say scale 45MPH and the decoder stayed
            noticeably
            > cooler. I have been able to reproduce this with other loco's with
            the
            > same decoder type these decoders were all bought at the same time
            in a 5
            > pack..
            >
            > I have not seen the same situation with TCS decoders.
            >
            > Brett
            >
            > Mark Kasprowicz wrote:
            > > --- In HOn3@yahoogroups.com, Brett Payne <brett.payne@> wrote:
            > >
            > >> Bob (and Mark),
            > >> What I was trying to get at was that depending on the motor
            control
            > >> circuit design the decoder may need to dissipate electrons as
            heat at
            > >> slower speed settings.
            > >>
            > >
            > > Brett,
            > > I am not sure I understand this at all. Could you explain why
            this
            > > happens.
            > >
            > > M
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
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            > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
            > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.22/666 - Release Date:
            3/02/2007 3:31 PM
            >
          • Brett Payne
            Mark, I should note that the TCS decoders (for example) do not behave in the same way. On another list someone was asking why the NCE DASR decoders seem to
            Message 5 of 6 , Feb 4, 2007
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              Mark,
              I should note that the TCS decoders (for example) do not behave in the
              same way. On another list someone was asking why the NCE DASR decoders
              seem to "scramble their eggs" after a period of time (typically more
              than a year or longer). That guy has had 50% go bad in a short period
              of time. I had one go bad so far out of six. I know of others with
              similar experiences.

              By scramble their eggs I mean they progressively fail and although they
              never "smoke" as such they seem to program okay but never behave or read
              back correctly once they start to play up. I am wondering if they
              succumb to their own heat.

              Brett



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