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Re: New Kadee Coupler for Loco Pilots

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  • martburm
    My dearly departed father used to mount KaDees in Std gauge brass engine pilots designed for dummy couplers long ago. This was back when KD s came in envelopes
    Message 1 of 14 , Nov 1, 2005
      My dearly departed father used to mount KaDees in Std gauge brass
      engine pilots designed for dummy couplers long ago. This was back
      when KD's came in envelopes that were print color coded by style and
      the instructions were printed on the inside of the envelope.

      He would buy the longest shank and cut off the centering stuff. He
      would drill (remember, this is back when MODELERS had drills and
      actually drilled holes) a hole in the shank and 'pin' it in the
      coupler opening. He would then jam two pieces of small rubber band in
      the sides of the coupler opening beside the coupler to 'sort of
      center' it. Electrically speaking, nose to nose engine coupling was
      exciting!

      This wouldn't work with split 714's or mt-x's, but might work with
      58's or 78's in HOn3 engines not designed for coupler pocket mounting.

      I have pilot mounted MT-? couplers in HOn3 engines (designed for
      dummys) by narrowing rectangular tubing to contain the N scale box
      and extending the tubing out of the pilot far enough to
      allow 'coupling room'. They protrude a bit, but I remove the
      uncoupling pins so I don't have to hang em out too far. I had to
      alter (enlarge) the opening on the engine pilot so it can't be
      returned to normal. Now I'd try pining 58 or 78's.

      Dusty Burman
    • Brett Payne
      I have done the #58 conversion as Marty pretty much describes below, to a Westide C-16 locomotive. I have not tried a piece of rubber band to help with
      Message 2 of 14 , Nov 1, 2005
        I have done the #58 conversion as Marty pretty much describes below, to
        a Westide C-16 locomotive. I have not tried a piece of rubber band to
        help with centering though. No modification to the front coupler pocket
        (other than the whole) was necessary.
        Brett

        martburm wrote:

        >My dearly departed father used to mount KaDees in Std gauge brass
        >engine pilots designed for dummy couplers long ago. This was back
        >when KD's came in envelopes that were print color coded by style and
        >the instructions were printed on the inside of the envelope.
        >
        >He would buy the longest shank and cut off the centering stuff. He
        >would drill (remember, this is back when MODELERS had drills and
        >actually drilled holes) a hole in the shank and 'pin' it in the
        >coupler opening. He would then jam two pieces of small rubber band in
        >the sides of the coupler opening beside the coupler to 'sort of
        >center' it. Electrically speaking, nose to nose engine coupling was
        >exciting!
        >
        >This wouldn't work with split 714's or mt-x's, but might work with
        >58's or 78's in HOn3 engines not designed for coupler pocket mounting.
        >
        >I have pilot mounted MT-? couplers in HOn3 engines (designed for
        >dummys) by narrowing rectangular tubing to contain the N scale box
        >and extending the tubing out of the pilot far enough to
        >allow 'coupling room'. They protrude a bit, but I remove the
        >uncoupling pins so I don't have to hang em out too far. I had to
        >alter (enlarge) the opening on the engine pilot so it can't be
        >returned to normal. Now I'd try pining 58 or 78's.
        >
        >Dusty Burman
        >
        >
      • captaindavekrembs
        ... It is easy to forget that those brass locos are conductive and any metal to metal contact running in opposite directions.will get every ones attention!
        Message 3 of 14 , Nov 1, 2005
          --- In HOn3@yahoogroups.com, Brett Payne <brett.payne@i...> wrote:
          >Yes that pilot to pilot can be electricfying especially with D.C.C..
          It is easy to forget that those brass locos are conductive and any metal to metal
          contact running in opposite directions.will get every ones attention! I've done it!!
          Dave

          > I have done the #58 conversion as Marty pretty much describes below, to
          > a Westide C-16 locomotive. I have not tried a piece of rubber band to
          > help with centering though. No modification to the front coupler pocket
          > (other than the whole) was necessary.
          > Brett
          >
          > martburm wrote:
          >
          > >My dearly departed father used to mount KaDees in Std gauge brass
          > >engine pilots designed for dummy couplers long ago. This was back
          > >when KD's came in envelopes that were print color coded by style and
          > >the instructions were printed on the inside of the envelope.
          > >
          > >He would buy the longest shank and cut off the centering stuff. He
          > >would drill (remember, this is back when MODELERS had drills and
          > >actually drilled holes) a hole in the shank and 'pin' it in the
          > >coupler opening. He would then jam two pieces of small rubber band in
          > >the sides of the coupler opening beside the coupler to 'sort of
          > >center' it. Electrically speaking, nose to nose engine coupling was
          > >exciting!
          > >
          > >This wouldn't work with split 714's or mt-x's, but might work with
          > >58's or 78's in HOn3 engines not designed for coupler pocket mounting.
          > >
          > >I have pilot mounted MT-? couplers in HOn3 engines (designed for
          > >dummys) by narrowing rectangular tubing to contain the N scale box
          > >and extending the tubing out of the pilot far enough to
          > >allow 'coupling room'. They protrude a bit, but I remove the
          > >uncoupling pins so I don't have to hang em out too far. I had to
          > >alter (enlarge) the opening on the engine pilot so it can't be
          > >returned to normal. Now I'd try pining 58 or 78's.
          > >
          > >Dusty Burman
          > >
          > >
          >
        • Brett Payne
          Good point. I am running DCC and have arranged all wheel pick up. There could be a problem when coupling to another Brass locomotive if the frames or tender
          Message 4 of 14 , Nov 1, 2005
            Good point. I am running DCC and have arranged all wheel pick up.
            There could be a problem when coupling to another Brass locomotive if
            the frames or tender are live and opposite polarity. I have isolated my
            tender in the rewiring process so that should avoid problems for me.
            Brett

            captaindavekrembs wrote:

            >--- In HOn3@yahoogroups.com, Brett Payne <brett.payne@i...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >>Yes that pilot to pilot can be electricfying especially with D.C.C..
            >>
            >>
            > It is easy to forget that those brass locos are conductive and any metal to metal
            >contact running in opposite directions.will get every ones attention! I've done it!!
            >Dave
            >
            >
            >
          • martburm
            Unless I have really missed the point, it s only a problem when the coupler is metal and not insulated. I assume you mount plastic tender couplers in plastic
            Message 5 of 14 , Nov 1, 2005
              Unless I have really missed the point, it's only a problem when the
              coupler is metal and not insulated. I assume you mount plastic tender
              couplers in plastic KD coupler pockets. Most 'modern' brass imports
              seem to have provisions for a front KD pocket mount. The dangerous
              engines are those with a dummy coupler being replaced by a 58 or 78 and
              pinned in place. If a brass air hose connected to a live tender frame
              contacts a brass pilot that would be a problem also.

              Dusty Burman

              --- In HOn3@yahoogroups.com, Brett Payne <brett.payne@i...> wrote:
              >
              > Good point. I am running DCC and have arranged all wheel pick up.
              > There could be a problem when coupling to another Brass locomotive if
              > the frames or tender are live and opposite polarity. I have isolated
              my
              > tender in the rewiring process so that should avoid problems for me.
              > Brett
              >
            • ANDREW A GIRARD JR
              I`ve run(or tryed to) two sierra 2-6-6-2s and theres couplers that will isolate but you give up prototypicallity as thier tooo far apart! Any suggestions?
              Message 6 of 14 , Nov 3, 2005
                I`ve run(or tryed to) two sierra 2-6-6-2s and theres couplers that will
                isolate but you give up prototypicallity as thier tooo far apart! Any
                suggestions? LATER!
                >From: Brett Payne <brett.payne@...>
                >Reply-To: HOn3@yahoogroups.com
                >To: HOn3@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: Re: [HOn3] Re: Coupler for Loco Pilots
                >Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 17:31:49 +1100
                >
                >Good point. I am running DCC and have arranged all wheel pick up.
                >There could be a problem when coupling to another Brass locomotive if
                >the frames or tender are live and opposite polarity. I have isolated my
                >tender in the rewiring process so that should avoid problems for me.
                >Brett
                >
                >captaindavekrembs wrote:
                >
                > >--- In HOn3@yahoogroups.com, Brett Payne <brett.payne@i...> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > >>Yes that pilot to pilot can be electricfying especially with D.C.C..
                > >>
                > >>
                > > It is easy to forget that those brass locos are conductive and any
                >metal to metal
                > >contact running in opposite directions.will get every ones attention!
                >I've done it!!
                > >Dave
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
              • Brett Payne
                Sorry Andrew I am not familiar with the Sierra 2-6-6-2 model. Hopefully someone else on the list can comment. Brett
                Message 7 of 14 , Nov 4, 2005
                  Sorry Andrew I am not familiar with the Sierra 2-6-6-2 model. Hopefully
                  someone else on the list can comment.
                  Brett

                  ANDREW A GIRARD JR wrote:

                  >I`ve run(or tryed to) two sierra 2-6-6-2s and theres couplers that will
                  >isolate but you give up prototypicallity as thier tooo far apart! Any
                  >suggestions? LATER!
                  >
                  >
                • Dieter Stehli
                  ... I do not quite understand what you mean by two Sierra 2-6-6-2s that are PROTOTYPICALLY too far apart. Since the Sierra RR only had one 2-6-6-2, there is no
                  Message 8 of 14 , Nov 6, 2005
                    Am 4. Nov 2005 um 08:33 Uhr schrieb ANDREW A GIRARD JR:

                    > I`ve run(or tryed to) two sierra 2-6-6-2s and theres couplers that
                    > will
                    > isolate but you give up prototypicallity as thier tooo far apart! Any
                    > suggestions?                     LATER!

                    I do not quite understand what you mean by two Sierra 2-6-6-2s that are
                    PROTOTYPICALLY too far apart. Since the Sierra RR only had one 2-6-6-2,
                    there is no such thing as a PROTOTYPICAL distance between two Sierra
                    2-6-6-2s ...

                    Dieter


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • ANDREW A GIRARD JR
                    Thier called sierra`s on the box but weather that accurate or not I don`t know! Thier united products but I`m sure that the builder didn`t stop at produceing
                    Message 9 of 14 , Nov 6, 2005
                      Thier called sierra`s on the box but weather that accurate or not I don`t
                      know! Thier united products but I`m sure that the builder didn`t stop at
                      produceing just one. When you have a corporation that produces this big an
                      engine, just designing it would be expensive so you spread the cost by
                      selling volume. Now really, was there just one and what builder.?
                      LATER!


                      >From: Dieter Stehli <dstehli@...>
                      >Reply-To: HOn3@yahoogroups.com
                      >To: HOn3@yahoogroups.com
                      >Subject: Re: [HOn3] Re: Coupler for Loco Pilots
                      >Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 21:01:49 +0100
                      >
                      >
                      >Am 4. Nov 2005 um 08:33 Uhr schrieb ANDREW A GIRARD JR:
                      >
                      > > I`ve run(or tryed to) two sierra 2-6-6-2s and theres couplers that
                      > > will
                      > > isolate but you give up prototypicallity as thier tooo far apart! Any
                      > > suggestions?�������������������� LATER!
                      >
                      >I do not quite understand what you mean by two Sierra 2-6-6-2s that are
                      >PROTOTYPICALLY too far apart. Since the Sierra RR only had one 2-6-6-2,
                      >there is no such thing as a PROTOTYPICAL distance between two Sierra
                      >2-6-6-2s ...
                      >
                      >Dieter
                      >
                      >
                      >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton
                      In this case there were three very similar engines Sirra #38 and two engines owned by Rayonier. However it wasn t uncommon for builders to produce one off
                      Message 10 of 14 , Nov 6, 2005
                        In this case there were three very similar engines Sirra #38 and two
                        engines owned by Rayonier. However it wasn't uncommon for builders to
                        produce one off designs. In a more expansive age you designed and built
                        engines for a particular service - volume selling wasn't a factor.

                        Baldwin especially was well known for the plant's ability to build
                        engines very quickly using standard components and tools. The engine
                        might not have been standardized but the components that went into then
                        were to a fair degree.

                        Aidrian


                        ~-----Original Message-----
                        ~
                        ~
                        ~Thier called sierra`s on the box but weather that accurate or not I
                        don`t
                        ~know! Thier united products but I`m sure that the builder didn`t stop
                        at
                        ~produceing just one. When you have a corporation that produces this big
                        an
                        ~engine, just designing it would be expensive so you spread the cost by
                        ~selling volume. Now really, was there just one and what builder.?
                        ~ LATER!
                        ~

                        --
                        No virus found in this outgoing message.
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                        11/5/2005
                      • Dieter Stehli
                        Andrew, the designation on the box is correct. Your models both represent Sierra #38 and the most astonishing thing about this model is the fact that a total
                        Message 11 of 14 , Nov 7, 2005
                          Andrew,

                          the designation on the box is correct. Your models both represent
                          Sierra #38 and the most astonishing thing about this model is the fact
                          that a total of 5,260 (!) handcrafted brass models of this unique
                          prototype were produced for PFM by United between 1958 and 1975 - the
                          more surprising when you consider that the vast majority of the buyers
                          never intended to model the Sierra RR. It is indeed a very attractive
                          model that appeals to many collectors. I also had two of these before I
                          switched to HOn3, however I did not use them for doubleheading, but
                          instead one each to run an empty train uphill and a full one downhill
                          to make operation seem more realistic (returning them to their start
                          position on a hidden track behind the layout).

                          The Sierra 2-6-6-2 is a logging engine and double-heading on a logging
                          railroad with such large engines would most likely not have been a very
                          good idea. There were other 2-6-6-2 logging engines in use with Kosmos
                          Timber, Hammond Lumber, Booth Kelly and Weyerhaeuser, but they were not
                          identical, most of them being furthermore tender engines.

                          Dieter

                          Am 7. Nov 2005 um 00:24 Uhr schrieb ANDREW A GIRARD JR:

                          > Thier called sierra`s on the box but weather that accurate or not I
                          > don`t
                          > know! Thier united products but I`m sure that the builder didn`t stop
                          > at
                          > produceing just one. When you have a corporation that produces this
                          > big an
                          > engine, just designing it would be expensive so you spread the cost by
                          > selling volume. Now really, was there just one and what builder.?
                          > LATER!
                          >
                          >
                          >> From: Dieter Stehli <dstehli@...>
                          >> Reply-To: HOn3@yahoogroups.com
                          >> To: HOn3@yahoogroups.com
                          >> Subject: Re: [HOn3] Re: Coupler for Loco Pilots
                          >> Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 21:01:49 +0100
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> Am 4. Nov 2005 um 08:33 Uhr schrieb ANDREW A GIRARD JR:
                          >>
                          >>> I`ve run(or tryed to) two sierra 2-6-6-2s and theres couplers that
                          >>> will
                          >>> isolate but you give up prototypicallity as thier tooo far apart!
                          >>> Any
                          >>> suggestions?                     LATER!
                          >>
                          >> I do not quite understand what you mean by two Sierra 2-6-6-2s that
                          >> are
                          >> PROTOTYPICALLY too far apart. Since the Sierra RR only had one
                          >> 2-6-6-2,
                          >> there is no such thing as a PROTOTYPICAL distance between two Sierra
                          >> 2-6-6-2s ...
                          >>
                          >> Dieter
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > HOn3 list web pages are:
                          > http://www.railwayeng.com/hon3/
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/archive/Hon3/
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/files/HOn3/
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • ANDREW A GIRARD JR
                          I want to thank you for that response! Very informative but as I have no picture of Sierra #38 I can`t see,by comparison, what makes it a unique engine type?
                          Message 12 of 14 , Nov 8, 2005
                            I want to thank you for that response! Very informative but as I have no
                            picture of Sierra #38 I can`t see,by comparison, what makes it a unique
                            engine type? Where can I go that's online to study this? Also having two
                            engines running in a lashup is really just less of a problem from a dispatch
                            thing standpoint(on my layout it`s better than authorizing a deadhead,one
                            less mandatory caboose) to run these to the next dispatching point.Can also
                            be required helper(offline grade represented)and it just looks good to me to
                            see all that driving equipment in motion all at once! I`m not modeling the
                            Serria by the way. Are you?
                            LATER!


                            >From: Dieter Stehli <dstehli@...>
                            >Reply-To: HOn3@yahoogroups.com
                            >To: HOn3@yahoogroups.com
                            >Subject: Re: [HOn3] Re: Coupler for Loco Pilots
                            >Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 14:15:25 +0100
                            >
                            >Andrew,
                            >
                            >the designation on the box is correct. Your models both represent
                            >Sierra #38
                          • Hart or Mary Jo Corbett
                            Perhaps a brief summary background history on the engine which the model railroading and railfan groups call the Sierra 38 might be in order. It is an
                            Message 13 of 14 , Nov 9, 2005
                              Perhaps a brief summary background history on the engine which the model
                              railroading and railfan groups call the "Sierra 38" might be in order.

                              It is an articulated, Mallet type 2-6-6-2 articulated engine built in 1934
                              for the Weyerhauser Company, which had extensive logging and lumbering
                              operations in the states of Oregon and Washington. In 1952, is was
                              purchased by the Sierra Railroad of Jamestown, California, for use between
                              it connections with the Santa Fe and the Southern Pacific at Oakdale,
                              California, to Jamestown. East of Jamestown, the curves, grades and
                              trestles of the Sierra RR were too sharp and too light for such a large
                              engine. It was in use by the Sierra only from 1952 into 1955, when it was
                              replaced by Diesels. During those few years, it caught the attention of the
                              railfan community as well as modelers since the area is not far from major
                              population centers (San Francisco Bay Area, Sacramento, etc.). It was
                              extensively photographed, recorded, and otherwise experienced by a lot of
                              people. Unfortunately, I never saw it because I did not become aware of,
                              and see, the Sierra RR until 1959.

                              In 1955, the 38 was sold to the Rayonier Corporation which had its base of
                              operations at Railroad Camp, a complex that once was located along U.S.
                              Highway 101 north of Hoquiam, Washington, on the Olympic Peninsula in the
                              northwestern part of that state. I saw #38 and photographed it at Railroad
                              Camp in 1963. It was lettered Rayonier Corporation #38.

                              About 20 or 25 years later, I saw it again at Rayonier's Crane Creek Camp
                              (Railroad Camp had been abandoned and all traces of it removed) on display
                              but in derelict condition. When Rayonier later shut down Crane Creek Camp,
                              the engine was sold to a rather strange mother/son combination who moved it,
                              in pieces, to the a point on the eastern edge of the town of McCloud,
                              California, a few miles east of the town of Dunsmuir, which is on Interstate
                              5 in northern California. I found it there a few years ago, still in pieces
                              behind a chain link fence, beside the main line of the McCloud River RR. By
                              that time, the pieces were slowly sinking into the volcanic soil there
                              (dormant volcano Mt. Shasta --14,000+ high --is not far north of McCloud).
                              It was still lettered for Rayonier and the "38" was still visible. It
                              appeared beyond restoration. As far as I know, it is still there.

                              So the term "Sierra #38" dates back to the 4 years the engine was owned by
                              the Sierra RR in the 1950s. That's all. The term does not designate a
                              special type of engine or anything like that.

                              Hope this clears the air a bit.

                              Best regards, Hart Corbett
                              _____________________________

                              <<Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 17:00:58 -0500
                              From: "ANDREW A GIRARD JR" <AAGJR49@...>
                              Subject: Re: Re: Coupler for Loco Pilots

                              I want to thank you for that response! Very informative but as I have no
                              picture of Sierra #38 I can`t see,by comparison, what makes it a unique
                              engine type? Where can I go that's online to study this? Also having two
                              engines running in a lashup is really just less of a problem from a dispatch
                              thing standpoint(on my layout it`s better than authorizing a deadhead,one
                              less mandatory caboose) to run these to the next dispatching point.Can also
                              be required helper(offline grade represented)and it just looks good to me to
                              see all that driving equipment in motion all at once! I`m not modeling the
                              Serria by the way. Are you?
                              LATER!>>


                              >From: Dieter Stehli <dstehli@...>
                              >Reply-To: HOn3@yahoogroups.com
                              >To: HOn3@yahoogroups.com
                              >Subject: Re: [HOn3] Re: Coupler for Loco Pilots
                              >Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 14:15:25 +0100
                              >
                              >Andrew,
                              >
                              >the designation on the box is correct. Your models both represent
                              >Sierra #38


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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