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RE: [HOn3] Painting Stock Cars

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  • BHI-Rail Systems
    Mark, First off not to be too nit picky but those are two different classes of cars. The 5500-5849 ones were shorter at only 30 long and the 5900 class, one
    Message 1 of 22 , Jul 31, 2003
      Mark,

      First off not to be too nit picky but those are two different classes of
      cars. The 5500-5849 ones were shorter at only 30' long and the 5900 class,
      one of which has recently be located had thought to have been totally
      scrapped, is If memory serves 34' long. As of right now there are few
      details out on the 5900 cars (hopefully that can change soon).

      A lot will depend upon how "aged" you want it to appear. The newer the paint
      job, the darker the car. Places that should receive attention in white/off
      white is the areas around where the side truss rods go below the deck of the
      car to pass through the side sill. This is one place I have noticed both the
      white and the assorted muck from the animals. Again this and the straw
      residue will depend upon how recent it is to the stock rush you are hoping
      to portray because often the cars would be used as a boxcar (with sides
      open) at times to carry things like bagged but lower grade ores to be
      processed and other lading that was not affected as much by the weather but
      still needed to be carried in a semi enclosed car.

      If you are doing a double decked car then go for white/gray streaks down the
      sides of the diagonal wood trusses, not the edges facing the outside of the
      car but rather those where it would have run downhill.

      You may want to also add some rust streaks under the 4 pin locations on the
      doors and the ring and rod that keeps the lower part of the door from
      swinging away from the car side too much.

      Another thing to consider is drybrushing up the upper guide and brakestaff
      ratchet on the roof of the car and the brakewheels. The roofs & roofwalks
      were often in less than satisfactory shape and you can truly be accurate
      with heavier than normal wood graining on the boards up there, don't forget
      the joints in between boards in the roofwalks.

      The edges of the nuts on the grabs and around the car in general should have
      a light drybrushing of rust on them as well as assorted spots on the grabs
      themselves.

      If you are planning on a particular part of the year near the stock rush you
      can also put some fresh wood colored nicks around the door hasps and the
      frame of the door.

      One thing I did not notice in yours or the other comments is that while much
      of the wood weathered to gray, some parts actually weathered to an old
      leather brown...think about a well oiled baseball glove color of brown.


      John Vivian is right that Vic Stone's Taking Stock is the definitive book on
      the cars. I corresponded with Vic quite a bit to make sure I got the
      majority of the details shot and included in the Quick Pic Book on the
      5500-5849 cars.
      http://railsystems.homestead.com/files/drgw5500book.htm

      Hope this has helped some,

      Tim Mulina
      BHI/Rail Systems

      http://railsystems.homestead.com





      -----Original Message-----
      From: Mark L. Evans [mailto:mevans@...]
      Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 12:50 AM
      To: 'HOn3@yahoogroups.com'
      Subject: [HOn3] Painting Stock Cars


      I'm ready to paint my first D&RG 5500-5900 series stock car. The suggestion
      in the kit is to use grimy black.

      I'll start with the "grey primer/roof brown/depot buff/grimy black/scratch
      with fiberglass eraser" method to get the weathered look of wood into the
      plastic. I was thinking it would look better to finish up with a coat of
      engine black rather than grimy black. I then planned on applying the decals
      and finishing up with more weathering from the air brush and chalks.

      What color are the rest of you using for a final coat on this series of
      cars?

      Mark


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    • Paul Richardson
      Mark, Don t forget to add the while stains about the floor area to represent the lime stains. -- Paul Richardson Purgatory & Devil River Railroad Garland,
      Message 2 of 22 , Aug 1, 2003
        Mark,

        Don't forget to add the while stains about the floor area to represent the lime stains.




        --
        Paul Richardson
        Purgatory & Devil River Railroad
        Garland, Texas

        Ride the P&DR on the web at:

        http://www.purgatoryanddevilriver.com

        PLEASE REMEMBER TO SIGN THE GUEST BOOK

        --
      • Mike Conder
        Mark, There s a new Quickpic book on the stock cars. I just got my copy (I shot the photos at the CRRM). The cars there are differnt blacks, one closer to
        Message 3 of 22 , Aug 1, 2003
          Mark,

          There's a new Quickpic book on the stock cars. I just got my copy (I shot the photos at the CRRM). The cars there are differnt blacks, one closer to grimy blck and two closer to engine black, slightly weathered. if you're going to do the scratchback on it, I'd recommend a mix between grimy black and engine black.

          For the book, see:

          http://railsystems.homestead.com/files/books.htm

          Mike Conder

          "Mark L. Evans" <mevans@...> wrote:
          I'm ready to paint my first D&RG 5500-5900 series stock car. The suggestion
          in the kit is to use grimy black.

          I'll start with the "grey primer/roof brown/depot buff/grimy black/scratch
          with fiberglass eraser" method to get the weathered look of wood into the
          plastic. I was thinking it would look better to finish up with a coat of
          engine black rather than grimy black. I then planned on applying the decals
          and finishing up with more weathering from the air brush and chalks.

          What color are the rest of you using for a final coat on this series of
          cars?

          Mark

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        • C. Mutschler
          Mark, The last general shopping of D&RGW narrow gauge cars was in the late 1940 s, so the cars would be black. As others have noted, weathering is a factor.
          Message 4 of 22 , Aug 1, 2003
            Mark,

            The last general shopping of D&RGW narrow gauge cars was in the late 1940's,
            so the cars would be black. As others have noted, weathering is a factor.
            The interiors were NOT painted - a point which makes painting the cars more
            complicated. I would opt for the various shades of gray on the car body,
            then mask the interior, and paint the exterior with black - depending on how
            weathered you want the car, then letter and add final weathering.

            Happy building.
            Charlie Mutschler
            -30-

            on 7/31/03 11:08 PM, Mark L. Evans at mevans@... wrote:

            Charlie

            I am looking at after the rebuilding campaign- 1940's - 1950's.

            I also blew it on the car numbers - 5500-5849 series is what I am after.

            Mark


            > Is the model to be of a D&RG car, or a D&RGW car after the
            > early 1920's
            > rebuilding campaign? It makes a difference. The D&RG used
            > Prince's Mineral
            > Brown on the stock cars, but the D&RGW painted them black.
            >
            > Charlie Mutschler

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          • Rick Blanchard
            Mark, I shot some more details for the Quick Pic book of the cars at Chama. These cars have been repainted by the Friends of the C&TS at least five years ago
            Message 5 of 22 , Aug 1, 2003
              Mark,

              I shot some more details for the Quick Pic book of the cars at Chama. These
              cars have been repainted by the Friends of the C&TS at least five years ago
              and all are still basically a fresh dark black, closer to engine black. If
              you have a string of cars to do you can have fun trying different formulas
              and mixes. By the time you get done you'll have it just right!

              The interiors were unpainted and since they haven't been used for a long
              while they were overall a dark dusty gray color with a few darker accents.

              Cheers,
              Rick


              Mike wrote:
              >There's a new Quickpic book on the stock cars. I just got my copy (I shot
              >the photos at the CRRM). The cars there are differnt blacks, one closer
              >to grimy blck and two closer to engine black, slightly weathered. if
              >you're going to do the scratchback on it, I'd recommend a mix between
              >grimy black and engine black.
              >
              >For the book, see:
              >
              >http://railsystems.homestead.com/files/books.htm

              --
              Rick Blanchard
              rick@...
              Abiquiu, New Mexico
            • Mark L. Evans
              I want to thank everyone for the great input, especially the photos Tim sent my way. I have been looking through the photos in the RGS Story series of books. I
              Message 6 of 22 , Aug 1, 2003
                I want to thank everyone for the great input, especially the photos Tim sent
                my way.

                I have been looking through the photos in the RGS Story series of books. I
                agree with Rick. You can find as many variations on paint as there are cars
                in a train in any of the images. I think I will approach this like I have
                the 3000 series box cars. I start with oxide red on the box cars but
                different amounts of antique white to each car I do. This give me the
                variation I see in the photos. I like the idea of using engine black as a
                base with differing amounts of grimy black added for variety.

                Mark


                >
                > Mark,
                >
                > I shot some more details for the Quick Pic book of the cars
                > at Chama. These
                > cars have been repainted by the Friends of the C&TS at least
                > five years ago
                > and all are still basically a fresh dark black, closer to
                > engine black. If
                > you have a string of cars to do you can have fun trying
                > different formulas
                > and mixes. By the time you get done you'll have it just right!
                >
                > The interiors were unpainted and since they haven't been used
                > for a long
                > while they were overall a dark dusty gray color with a few
                > darker accents.
                >
                > Cheers,
                > Rick
              • Jim Vail
                ... Engine Black is pure flat black. According to the artists, pure black should only be used for the absence of light, i.e., like behind a window, the
                Message 7 of 22 , Aug 1, 2003
                  Mark L. Evans wrote:

                  >I'm ready to paint my first D&RG 5500-5900 series stock car. The suggestion
                  >in the kit is to use grimy black.
                  >
                  >I'll start with the "grey primer/roof brown/depot buff/grimy black/scratch
                  >with fiberglass eraser" method to get the weathered look of wood into the
                  >plastic. I was thinking it would look better to finish up with a coat of
                  >engine black rather than grimy black. I then planned on applying the decals
                  >and finishing up with more weathering from the air brush and chalks.
                  >
                  >What color are the rest of you using for a final coat on this series of
                  >cars?
                  >
                  Engine Black is pure flat black. According to the artists, pure black
                  should only be used for the absence of light, i.e., like behind a
                  window, the interior of a non-detailed structure, etc. I personally use
                  Grimy Black as the color on my D&RGW cars - it looks pretty dark under
                  the lights on my layout.

                  Jim Vail
                • John Stutz
                  A caution regarding use of museum cars as prototypes for painting in-service cars: It is often many years since such cars have seen service condition, which
                  Message 8 of 22 , Aug 1, 2003
                    A caution regarding use of museum cars as prototypes for painting
                    in-service cars: It is often many years since such cars have seen
                    service condition, which may differ greatly from their current
                    condition. In particular, preserved cars are often much cleaner than
                    when they were in regular use. But even when preserved cars are
                    filthy dirty, the nature of that dirt probably differs from what they
                    accumulated in service.

                    Regarding stock cars: It is now almost 4 decades since anyone in North
                    America shoveled out and hosed down a stock car floor. Stock car
                    floors once received a heavy dose of both brown and white pigments,
                    whenever the car was put to its indended use. Most preserved stock
                    car's floors have just been gathering dust for decades. Preserved
                    stock car's sides, which used to collect those same pigments, have
                    been scoured clean by decades of rain.

                    Similar considerations apply elsewhere. Preserved gondola's interiors
                    are now largely driftwood gray with rusty hardware, after decades of
                    rain without any of the scouring action of loads or the scars of
                    loading and unloading operations. Preserved gondola's floors now show
                    blown in dust or museum detrius, with little evidence of the loads
                    they once carried. Preserved flat car's decks are now usually a
                    fairly uniform dusty driftwood gray, with no hint of the once
                    universal practice of blocking loads in place using 4-6" thick timber
                    nailed down with 8-12" spikes. Preserved hoppers now have rusty
                    sheets where they were once scoured down to bare metal by sliding
                    loads.

                    So before painting an open car, give some thought to how that car has
                    been used over the previous few years, and how that use affected the
                    car's appearence.

                    --
                    John Stutz
                  • JOHN & KIM MCGLOTHLEN
                    BHI-Rail Systems wrote: the 5900 class, one of which has recently be located had thought to have been totally scrapped, is If
                    Message 9 of 22 , Aug 1, 2003
                      BHI-Rail Systems <bhirailsystems@...> wrote:

                      the 5900 class, one of which has recently be located had thought to have been totally scrapped, is If memory serves 34' long.

                      Tim...In your recent post you note that a 5900 class stock car was recently discovered. How intact is it, and is it potentially restorable? Where was it found? I think a 5900 class car would look quite nice on the C&TS RR, snuggled amidst its smaller brethren. john mcglothlen



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • BHI-Rail Systems
                      John, If memory serves...and I am sure others on here remember it better, there were two found in CO in use as sheds on some guys farm. I want to say I may
                      Message 10 of 22 , Aug 1, 2003
                        John,

                        If memory serves...and I am sure others on here remember it better, there
                        were two found in CO in use as sheds on some guys farm.

                        I want to say I may have seen the info on the NG Discussion list
                        http://www.ngdiscussion.net/cgi-bin/NGDFcook.pl but I can't say for sure.

                        I agree that it would be cool but I doubt it would be economically feasible
                        because one thing is the trucks from those cars were cannibalized for use
                        under other equipment and replicating trucks is expensive.

                        The CRRM spent around $25,000 for some Passenger car truck castings to make
                        new trucks for DRGW coach 284 and they have a number of other cars that need
                        those exact trucks too sitting on blocks or on 3'7 arch bar freight trucks
                        like RPO #60 is. With the financial issues facing the C&TS getting all of
                        the maintenance done on the locos that had been deferred over the years, I
                        don't know if they have the extra resources to even consider undertaking
                        something like this. Something to keep in mind if one of gets luck in the
                        lottery huh :).

                        regards,

                        Tim Mulina
                        BHI/Rail Systems

                        http://railsystems.homestead.com
                        http://narrowgauge.homestead.com





                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: JOHN & KIM MCGLOTHLEN [mailto:johnmcg@...]
                        Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 9:09 PM
                        To: HOn3@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [HOn3] Painting Stock Cars




                        BHI-Rail Systems <bhirailsystems@...> wrote:

                        the 5900 class, one of which has recently be located had thought to have
                        been totally scrapped, is If memory serves 34' long.

                        Tim...In your recent post you note that a 5900 class stock car was recently
                        discovered. How intact is it, and is it potentially restorable? Where was
                        it found? I think a 5900 class car would look quite nice on the C&TS RR,
                        snuggled amidst its smaller brethren. john mcglothlen



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                      • john vivian
                        Tim: As a side note, I don t think any of us thought we would see tank cars back from WP&Y either, so cross fingers and watch for the Golden Preservation
                        Message 11 of 22 , Aug 1, 2003
                          Tim:
                          As a side note, I don't think any of us thought we
                          would see tank cars back from WP&Y either, so cross
                          fingers and watch for the Golden Preservation Fierry
                          to drop a load of Colorado gold dust on the wish.
                          We have seen stranger things happen.
                          JOHN V>8-)
                          --- BHI-Rail Systems <bhirailsystems@...>
                          wrote:
                          > John,
                          >
                          > If memory serves...and I am sure others on here
                          > remember it better, there
                          > were two found in CO in use as sheds on some guys
                          > farm.
                          > snip>> Something to keep in mind if
                          > one of gets luck in the
                          > lottery huh :).
                          >
                          > regards,
                          >
                          > Tim Mulina
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: JOHN & KIM MCGLOTHLEN
                          > [mailto:johnmcg@...]
                          > Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 9:09 PM
                          > To: HOn3@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: RE: [HOn3] Painting Stock Cars
                          > the 5900 class, one of which has recently be located
                          > snip>> I think a 5900 class car would look
                          > quite nice on the C&TS RR,
                          > snuggled amidst its smaller brethren.
                          > john mcglothlen


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                        • BHI-Rail Systems
                          John, Yep you are correct there along with many other items. My doubts also stem from seeing firsthand many ex RR cars used as sheds. By the time they have
                          Message 12 of 22 , Aug 1, 2003
                            John,

                            Yep you are correct there along with many other items.

                            My doubts also stem from seeing firsthand many ex RR cars used as sheds. By
                            the time they have been used for 50+ years in the kind of environment that
                            CO has I am surprised they are still standing. One of the groups came across
                            a DSP&P freight car still with existing paint in use as a shed. But the
                            shape it was in with rot and decay no way it would roll again, but it would
                            serve as patterns for new cars to be built.

                            Now for one or more crazy train people to hit one of the lotteries huh :)

                            Hoping for some of that CO Gold dust to filter down on all the preservation
                            groups that are doing so much with so very little.

                            Tim

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: john vivian [mailto:john_vivian@...]
                            Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2003 12:51 AM
                            To: HOn3@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [HOn3] Painting Stock Cars


                            Tim:
                            As a side note, I don't think any of us thought we
                            would see tank cars back from WP&Y either, so cross
                            fingers and watch for the Golden Preservation Fierry
                            to drop a load of Colorado gold dust on the wish.
                            We have seen stranger things happen.
                            JOHN V>8-)
                            --- BHI-Rail Systems <bhirailsystems@...>
                            wrote:
                            > John,
                            >
                            > If memory serves...and I am sure others on here
                            > remember it better, there
                            > were two found in CO in use as sheds on some guys
                            > farm.
                            > snip>> Something to keep in mind if
                            > one of gets luck in the
                            > lottery huh :).
                            >
                            > regards,
                            >
                            > Tim Mulina
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: JOHN & KIM MCGLOTHLEN
                            > [mailto:johnmcg@...]
                            > Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 9:09 PM
                            > To: HOn3@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: RE: [HOn3] Painting Stock Cars
                            > the 5900 class, one of which has recently be located
                            > snip>> I think a 5900 class car would look
                            > quite nice on the C&TS RR,
                            > snuggled amidst its smaller brethren.
                            > john mcglothlen


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                          • Jeff Osborne
                            Mark, If you haven t tried PBL s Star brand paints I suggest you give them a try. You can order them directly from PBL at http://www.p-b-l.com After buying
                            Message 13 of 22 , Aug 2, 2003
                              Mark,

                              If you haven't tried PBL's Star brand paints I suggest you give them a try.
                              You can order them directly from PBL at http://www.p-b-l.com

                              After buying some of the paints to try them out, I'm happy with the paint.
                              The wood paint colors alone are the closest I've seen to coming to wood that
                              has weathered to a nice seasoned brown w/golden tones and weathered gray in
                              places.

                              They offer one coat coverage, are very suited for airbrushing (recomended),
                              spray at 10-20psi, and dry very quickly. You can scratchbrush it in about 10
                              minutes after spraying it. The other thing I've noticed with the paints is
                              that the paint color doesn't change when scratched with a fiberglass brush
                              like floquil does (especially gray & boxcar red.)

                              They have 3 wood colors: Natural Wood, Seasoned Brown Wood, and Weathered
                              Gray Wood

                              You paint the whole car with the Natural wood color first, and then the
                              seasoned brown & weathered gray to your liking, but let some of the previous
                              colors show through. After each coat scratch the previous coat back in
                              places. Then lightly spray a coat of the final base car color, but not so
                              heavy that it completely covers the wood tones underneath. Then scratch this
                              back again in places.

                              They only have a base black color avaliable, so you would have to use
                              Floquil Grimy Black and Weathered black to weather the base black color up.

                              Also for the 5500 series stock cars, you might also want to lightly spray on
                              a coat of boxcar red before the black coat, as if you can look at some real
                              cars, that have weathered, you can see traces of the boxcar red paint
                              underneath the black paint.

                              I have also painted up stock cars with Floquil engine black, then dry
                              brushed them with a mix of Floquil concrete gray & rail tie or roof brown in
                              varying amounts, and then airbrushed them with a light mist coat of grimy
                              black/weathered black to blend the weathering.

                              Jeff
                            • brian bass
                              If the cars could be rescued and brought to Chama and restored so they dont get worse, they could get to the trucks when they can. I would rather see them on
                              Message 14 of 22 , Aug 2, 2003
                                If the cars could be rescued and brought to Chama and restored so they dont
                                get worse, they could get to the trucks when they can. I would rather see
                                them on blocks or the wrong trucks vs rotting away on a farm.
                                Brian

                                >If memory serves...and I am sure others on here remember it better, there
                                >were two found in CO in use as sheds on some guys farm.
                                >

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                              • Mike Conder
                                Speaking of old cars used as sheds, I just got back from Lake City, Crested Butte and other areas. In Lake City, I saw a car as a shed just above the Armory.
                                Message 15 of 22 , Aug 3, 2003
                                  Speaking of old cars used as sheds, I just got back from Lake City, Crested Butte and other areas. In Lake City, I saw a car as a shed just above the Armory. Anybody know anything about this car? Also, is the caboose in Lake City for real, or is it SG or a replica of some kinds?

                                  Just north of LakeCity, somebody has a high side gon & a 3000-series box car. Again, anybody kow anything about these?

                                  Finally, east of Gunnison about 20 miles (IIRC) is a car shed painted almost pink, with white numbers "04407" or something like that. Again, anybody know anything about this car?

                                  thanks,
                                  Mike Conder




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                                • Jeff Osborne
                                  Mike, The caboose in Lake City is for real. It is D&RGW NG long caboose #0588. Jeff ... From: Mike Conder [mailto:vulturenest1@yahoo.com] Sent: Sunday, August
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Aug 3, 2003
                                    Mike,

                                    The caboose in Lake City is for real. It is D&RGW NG long caboose #0588.

                                    Jeff

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Mike Conder [mailto:vulturenest1@...]
                                    Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 2:35 PM
                                    To: HOn3@yahoogroups.com; On3@yahoogroups.com; slimrails@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: RE: [HOn3] was Painting Stock Cars, now old cars


                                    Speaking of old cars used as sheds, I just got back from Lake City, Crested
                                    Butte and other areas. In Lake City, I saw a car as a shed just above the
                                    Armory. Anybody know anything about this car? Also, is the caboose in Lake
                                    City for real, or is it SG or a replica of some kinds?

                                    Just north of LakeCity, somebody has a high side gon & a 3000-series box
                                    car. Again, anybody kow anything about these?

                                    Finally, east of Gunnison about 20 miles (IIRC) is a car shed painted almost
                                    pink, with white numbers "04407" or something like that. Again, anybody
                                    know anything about this car?

                                    thanks,
                                    Mike Conder




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                                  • Mike Conder
                                    Thanks, Jeff. I didn t get too close, but the cupola side looked like it was flush with the car side, which looked odd to me. Next time, i ll get a closer
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Aug 3, 2003
                                      Thanks, Jeff. I didn't get too close, but the cupola side looked like it was flush with the car side, which looked odd to me. Next time, i'll get a closer look.

                                      Mike Conder

                                      Jeff Osborne <josborne325@...> wrote:
                                      Mike,

                                      The caboose in Lake City is for real. It is D&RGW NG long caboose #0588.

                                      Jeff

                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: Mike Conder [mailto:vulturenest1@...]
                                      Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 2:35 PM
                                      To: HOn3@yahoogroups.com; On3@yahoogroups.com; slimrails@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: RE: [HOn3] was Painting Stock Cars, now old cars


                                      Speaking of old cars used as sheds, I just got back from Lake City, Crested
                                      Butte and other areas. In Lake City, I saw a car as a shed just above the
                                      Armory. Anybody know anything about this car? Also, is the caboose in Lake
                                      City for real, or is it SG or a replica of some kinds?

                                      Just north of LakeCity, somebody has a high side gon & a 3000-series box
                                      car. Again, anybody kow anything about these?

                                      Finally, east of Gunnison about 20 miles (IIRC) is a car shed painted almost
                                      pink, with white numbers "04407" or something like that. Again, anybody
                                      know anything about this car?

                                      thanks,
                                      Mike Conder




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                                    • grandefan1
                                      Jeff, Your posting on Star brand paints has been most timely. I am about to paint the interior of a PBL 5900 series stockcar and your comments will come in
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Aug 4, 2003
                                        Jeff,
                                        Your posting on Star brand paints has been most timely. I am
                                        about to paint the interior of a PBL 5900 series stockcar and your
                                        comments will come in handy. Thanx!

                                        Mike(Grandefan1)

                                        >
                                        > If you haven't tried PBL's Star brand paints I suggest you give
                                        them a try.
                                        Jeff
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