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Re[3]: [HOn3] Modeling shingle roofs

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  • boone
    ... Ah, yes.. quite a diffference, I suspect! If you are looking at traditional American buildings of the common type, practices here are vastly different
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 4, 1904
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      >
      >Living in Germany it's easy to find out about German building practices -
      >but American? But I agree that looking at books written for architects
      >helps a lot in building prototypical structures.
      >
      >--
      >Regards,
      >Martin

      Ah, yes.. quite a diffference, I suspect! If you are looking at
      traditional "American"buildings of the common type, practices here
      are vastly different than in Europe. The availability of wood lead
      to its use as the standard for framing of the light, inexpensive
      structures (mining towns, logging camps, newly developing businesses
      in small towns)which were the norm. The robust, long lasting
      structures of masonry or stone were not seen until an area became
      "well established".

      Aloha, Boone
    • tinticng
      ... Howdy all, I have photos of corrugated metal roofs from the early 1900 s using this same technique. Sam
      Message 2 of 13 , Aug 7 12:22 PM
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        > For the wood one either uses a pair of boards nailed into a V shape
        > of appropriate angle and applied to the ridge over the top of a
        > flashing piece (usually copper or zinc). >

        Howdy all,

        I have photos of corrugated metal roofs from the early 1900's using
        this same technique.

        Sam
      • Martin Fischer
        ... Joe, while I ve never seen the Builders in Scale shingles, I had the same situation with the material I m using. I found that sanding the roof after the
        Message 3 of 13 , Aug 8 10:44 AM
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          On Wed, 7 Aug 2002 10:44:54 -0600 you wrote (Joe Lemmo <jlemmo@...>):


          > I tried to replicate this using the 'Builders in Scale' real wood
          > shingles and it looked weird. I think the problem is that the shingles were
          > way too thick. A quick check had one sample at 2.5 scale inches thick. If
          > I remember correctly my former shake roof was about .5 inches at the
          > thickest.

          Joe,

          while I've never seen the Builders in Scale shingles, I had the same
          situation with the material I'm using. I found that sanding the roof after
          the shingles are glued in place helps a lot towards a more prototypical
          look.

          Thanks for the tip to use boards, that's what I plan to do.

          --
          Regards,
          Martin
        • Martin Fischer
          ... Boone, seems I should have specified that I plan to model wood shingles, so your tip helps a lot. would the flashing be wider than the boards or will the
          Message 4 of 13 , Aug 8 10:47 AM
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            On Wed, 7 Aug 2002 07:58:45 -1000 you wrote (Boone Morrison <boone@...>):

            > >A THIN PIECE OF BROWN PAPER BAG FOLDED IN HALF USUALLY MAKES A NEAT RIDGE
            > >SEAM. I REAL LIFE ROOFERS USE INDIVIDUAL SHINGLE FOLDED IN HALF AND
            > >OVERLAPPED TO ACCOMPLISH THIS.
            > >DICK SCHWEIGER

            > Dick: "Folded in half" only applies to composition shingles,
            > definately not wood ones!
            > For the wood one either uses a pair of boards nailed into a V shape
            > of appropriate angle and applied to the ridge over the top of a
            > flashing piece (usually copper or zinc). Another approach is to
            > "weave" the singles together along the ridge, beginning at the center
            > and working out to the ends, to create this "cap", also laid up over
            > a metal flashing which is often unseen.

            Boone,

            seems I should have specified that I plan to model wood shingles, so your
            tip helps a lot.

            would the flashing be wider than the boards or will the boards cover them completely?

            Thanks for the tip.

            --
            Regards,
            Martin
          • Boone Morrison
            ... Martin: As I said in the quote you repeated, the metal is often hidden ...and that s exactly what I meant...the shingles, or pair of boards, often covers
            Message 5 of 13 , Aug 8 11:55 AM
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              >
              >Boone,
              >
              >seems I should have specified that I plan to model wood shingles, so your
              >tip helps a lot.
              >
              >would the flashing be wider than the boards or will the boards cover
              >them completely?
              >
              >Thanks for the tip.
              >
              >--
              >Regards,
              >Martin

              Martin: As I said in the quote you repeated, "the metal is often
              hidden"...and that's exactly what I meant...the shingles, or pair of
              boards, often covers the metal - extending down the roof below it
              enough that it is not seen. For roofs on sheds and such, the nicety
              of the metal was dispensed with and just the boards or shingles
              used...not near as waterproof!!

              If you really want to know how buildings go together (not a bad idea
              if you are modeling them!)
              hit your library and get hold of Archtectural Graphic Standards - the
              older the edition the better.
              This was for years the standard refference on "how buildings are
              built" and is still in wide use.

              Check it out, you will learn a heck of a lot!!

              Aloha, Boone
            • Martin Fischer
              ... Living in Germany it s easy to find out about German building practices - but American? But I agree that looking at books written for architects helps a
              Message 6 of 13 , Aug 8 10:53 PM
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                On Thu, 8 Aug 2002 08:55:31 -1000 you wrote (Boone Morrison <boone@...>):

                > If you really want to know how buildings go together (not a bad idea
                > if you are modeling them!)
                > hit your library and get hold of Archtectural Graphic Standards - the
                > older the edition the better.
                > This was for years the standard refference on "how buildings are
                > built" and is still in wide use.

                > Check it out, you will learn a heck of a lot!!

                Living in Germany it's easy to find out about German building practices -
                but American? But I agree that looking at books written for architects
                helps a lot in building prototypical structures.

                --
                Regards,
                Martin
              • John Stutz
                ... From previous discussion, you are modeling the wooden version, but it is not clear if you mean sawn shingles or split shakes. Shingles are typically sawn
                Message 7 of 13 , Aug 12 11:49 AM
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                  > From: Martin Fischer <martin.fischer@...>
                  >
                  > currently I have a small structure with a shingle roof on the workbench.
                  > While all shingles are in place now, I have no idea what to put onto the
                  > ridge. So maybe somebody on this list can tell me how the ridge was done on
                  > the prototype? Would they use special shingles, metal flashing, boards
                  > nailed on?

                  From previous discussion, you are modeling the wooden version, but it is not
                  clear if you mean sawn shingles or split shakes. Shingles are typically sawn
                  to uniform width and thickness, typically about 1/4" x 6" x 12-16", and laid
                  about 4" exposed to the weather. Current commercial wooden shakes are taper
                  split giving exposed edges of 1/2-1" thickness, and sometimes more if the
                  split goes on a curve. Shake widths are random in the range of 4 - 12", and
                  lengths run 20-24", giving 8" to the weather. In the old growth redwood and
                  ceder country, loggers sometimes made shakes up to 5' length, but these may
                  have been for local consumption and not commercial products. Such long shakes
                  require logs of very fine and even grain.

                  In 'permanent' construction, both shingles and shakes are lapped with asphalt
                  impregnated roofing paper of width about equal to the shingle/shake length.
                  The paper goes up far enough that a double layer of shingles/shakes laps each
                  layer, to protect the paper from the sun exposure. Use of such paper may be a
                  modern innovation, to ensure against leakage. Both shingles and shakes
                  are laid with open joints and nailed only on the centerline, to allow for
                  expansion as water content changes from fully saturated to completely dry.

                  With a shingle roof, the ridge line needs some sort of wood or metal cover as
                  described by others. With a shake roof, standard practice is to lay aside as
                  stock of average width shakes as the roofing approaches the ridge line. The
                  last few rolls of roofing paper will lap the ridge line. As the last two rows
                  of shakes are laid on each side, the tails are cut off even with the ridge,
                  leaving a final layer of about 12" long shakes. The ridge shakes are then
                  laid in from the ends, parallel to the ridge, one on each side, at about 6-8"
                  exposed to weather. The first shake in a pair is placed to slightly lap the
                  ridge, then the ridge side edge is split off to give a tapered bearing surface
                  aligned with the opposite slope. The second shake then overlaps this taper,
                  and is split off to match the slope of the first. The ridge shakes alternate,
                  the first shake on one side and then the other, to cover the joint in the
                  previous pair. Near the roof center, the shake tails from one end will cover
                  those from the other end, building up to a nearly level surface.

                  At least that is how we did it, on the several roofs my family laid 35 years
                  ago, and are ony just beginning to replace.

                  John Stutz
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