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An animal right group (already established)

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  • Jodi de Vries
    There s a group here on Yahoo that I hope everyone will join. (Especially you, Colleen!) =) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pro-Animal-Rights/ Hope to see you
    Message 1 of 12 , Nov 6, 2002
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      There's a group here on Yahoo that I hope everyone will join.
      (Especially you, Colleen!) =)

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pro-Animal-Rights/

      Hope to see you all there!
    • Pelagus Vegan
      I m just curious... How can you consider a group that supports PETA as an animals rights group? PETA supports welfare, nothing else.... Nathalie There s a
      Message 2 of 12 , Nov 6, 2002
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        I'm just curious... How can you consider a group that supports PETA as an animals rights group?
        PETA supports welfare, nothing else....
         
        Nathalie

        There's a group here on Yahoo that I hope everyone will join.
        (Especially you, Colleen!) =)

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pro-Animal-Rights/

        Hope to see you all there!



      • Jodi de Vries
        There are not enough people on the animals side of defense to differentiate.. we must stand together for our non-human friends. There is a place for everyone
        Message 3 of 12 , Nov 6, 2002
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          There are not enough people on the animals' side of defense to
          differentiate.. we must stand together for our non-human friends. There
          is a place for everyone to plug in, dependent upon how you believe and
          how far you will go.

          I feel it is a waste of valuable time trying to differentiate between
          welfare/rights/liberation of animals, time that could be better spent
          helping them.

          For the animals,
          Jodi


          Pelagus Vegan wrote:

          > I'm just curious... How can you consider a group that supports PETA as
          > an animals rights group?
          > PETA supports welfare, nothing else....
          >
          > Nathalie
          >
          >
          > There's a group here on Yahoo that I hope everyone will join.
          > (Especially you, Colleen!) =)
          >
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pro-Animal-Rights/
          >
          > Hope to see you all there!
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > HLSsucks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
          > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
        • RoseMary Brown
          Excuse me, Nathalie, what do you mean PETA supports welfare, nothing else....? PETA would also be classified as an an activist organization in my
          Message 4 of 12 , Nov 6, 2002
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            Excuse me, Nathalie, what do you mean "PETA supports welfare, nothing else....?"   PETA would also be classified as an an "activist" organization in my definition.
             
            Romie

            >>> pelagus@... 11/06/02 11:09AM >>>
            I'm just curious... How can you consider a group that supports PETA as an animals rights group?
            PETA supports welfare, nothing else....
             
            Nathalie

            There's a group here on Yahoo that I hope everyone will join.
            (Especially you, Colleen!) =)

            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pro-Animal-Rights/

            Hope to see you all there!




            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            HLSsucks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          • RoseMary Brown
            Jodi, I agree with you, but you must agree that the different organizations, as well as individuals, have totally different approaches as to how we should help
            Message 5 of 12 , Nov 6, 2002
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              Jodi,
               
              I agree with you, but you must agree that the different organizations, as well as individuals, have totally different approaches as to how we should help our animal friends.  Would that we could all join together for the animals.
               
              Romie

              >>> jodi.de.vries@... 11/06/02 11:21AM >>>
              There are not enough people on the animals' side of defense to
              differentiate.. we must stand together for our non-human friends.  There
              is a place for everyone to plug in, dependent upon how you believe and
              how far you will go.

              I feel it is a waste of valuable time trying to differentiate between
              welfare/rights/liberation of animals, time that could be better spent
              helping them.

              For the animals,
              Jodi


              Pelagus Vegan wrote:

              > I'm just curious...
              How can you consider a group that supports PETA as
              > an animals rights
              group?
              > PETA supports welfare, nothing else....

              >
              Nathalie
              >
              >
              >     There's a group here on
              Yahoo that I hope everyone will join.
              >    
              (Especially you, Colleen!) =)
              >
              >    
              href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pro-Animal-Rights/">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pro-Animal-Rights/
              >
              >    
              Hope to see you all there!
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > To
              unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              >
              HLSsucks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of
              Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
              > <
              href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.



              To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              HLSsucks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            • Jodi de Vries
              Romie, I agree completely. I believe that there is a place for everyone to forward the movement. The reason I take the stance that I do is because I ve read
              Message 6 of 12 , Nov 6, 2002
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                Romie,

                I agree completely. I believe that there is a place for everyone to
                forward the movement.

                The reason I take the stance that I do is because I've read the
                differences between animal welfare/rights/liberation & I agree with some
                things and disagree with others. Therefore, I make my own decision based
                on what I feel is the right thing to do and help wherever and whenever I
                can. I only wish I had the power of millions of people to help the
                animals, for they suffer every second.

                Jodi


                RoseMary Brown wrote:

                > Jodi,
                >
                > I agree with you, but you must agree that the different organizations,
                > as well as individuals, have totally different approaches as to how we
                > should help our animal friends. Would that we could all join together
                > for the animals.
                >
                > Romie
                >
                > >>> jodi.de.vries@... 11/06/02 11:21AM >>>
                > There are not enough people on the animals' side of defense to
                > differentiate.. we must stand together for our non-human friends. There
                > is a place for everyone to plug in, dependent upon how you believe and
                > how far you will go.
                >
                > I feel it is a waste of valuable time trying to differentiate between
                > welfare/rights/liberation of animals, time that could be better spent
                > helping them.
                >
                > For the animals,
                > Jodi
                >
                >
                > Pelagus Vegan wrote:
                >
                > > I'm just curious... How can you consider a group that supports PETA as
                > > an animals rights group?
                > > PETA supports welfare, nothing else....
                > >
                > > Nathalie
                > >
                > >
                > > There's a group here on Yahoo that I hope everyone will join.
                > > (Especially you, Colleen!) =)
                > >
                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pro-Animal-Rights/
                > >
                > > Hope to see you all there!
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > > HLSsucks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                >
                >
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > HLSsucks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > HLSsucks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
              • Jodi de Vries
                PeTA has always supported animal liberation. To me, that is something more.
                Message 7 of 12 , Nov 6, 2002
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                  PeTA has always supported animal liberation.
                  To me, that is something more.

                  RoseMary Brown wrote:

                  > Excuse me, Nathalie, what do you mean "PETA supports welfare, nothing
                  > else....?" PETA would also be classified as an an "activist"
                  > organization in my definition.
                  >
                  > Romie
                  >
                  > >>> pelagus@... 11/06/02 11:09AM >>>
                  > I'm just curious... How can you consider a group that supports PETA as
                  > an animals rights group?
                  > PETA supports welfare, nothing else....
                  >
                  > Nathalie
                  >
                  >
                  > There's a group here on Yahoo that I hope everyone will join.
                  > (Especially you, Colleen!) =)
                  >
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pro-Animal-Rights/
                  >
                  > Hope to see you all there!
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > HLSsucks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                  > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > HLSsucks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                  > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                • RoseMary Brown
                  Yes, it is. They are a powerful organization and do wonderful things. They also believe (at least some of the officials) that ALL animals should be free and
                  Message 8 of 12 , Nov 6, 2002
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                    Yes, it is.  They are a powerful organization and do wonderful things.  They also believe (at least some of the officials) that ALL animals should be "free" and have gone around to dog and cat shows and released the animals from their cages.  Can you imagine the bedlam after that occurs?  How many animals have been killed by running frantically into traffic or whatever?
                     
                    Romie

                    >>> jodi.de.vries@... 11/06/02 12:10PM >>>
                    PeTA has always supported animal liberation.
                    To me, that is something more.

                    RoseMary Brown wrote:

                    > Excuse me, Nathalie,
                    what do you mean "PETA supports welfare, nothing
                    > else....?"  
                    PETA would also be classified as an an "activist"
                    > organization in my
                    definition.

                    > Romie
                    >
                    > >>>
                    pelagus@... 11/06/02 11:09AM >>>
                    > I'm just curious... How
                    can you consider a group that supports PETA as
                    > an animals rights
                    group?
                    > PETA supports welfare, nothing else....

                    >
                    Nathalie
                    >
                    >
                    >     There's a group here on
                    Yahoo that I hope everyone will join.
                    >    
                    (Especially you, Colleen!) =)
                    >
                    >    
                    href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pro-Animal-Rights/">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pro-Animal-Rights/
                    >
                    >    
                    Hope to see you all there!
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > To
                    unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    >
                    HLSsucks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of
                    Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                    > <
                    href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                    >
                    >
                    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    >
                    HLSsucks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of
                    Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                    > <
                    href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.



                    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                  • RoseMary Brown
                    It appears that you and I have the same feelings about this, Jodi, because that is exactly my approach and my sentiments on the animal movement also. Romie
                    Message 9 of 12 , Nov 6, 2002
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                      It appears that you and I have the same feelings about this, Jodi, because that is exactly my approach and my sentiments on the animal "movement" also. 
                       
                      Romie

                      >>> jodi.de.vries@... 11/06/02 11:47AM >>>
                      Romie,

                      I agree completely.  I believe that there is a place for everyone to
                      forward the movement.

                      The reason I take the stance that I do is because I've read the
                      differences between animal welfare/rights/liberation & I agree with some
                      things and disagree with others. Therefore, I make my own decision based
                      on what I feel is the right thing to do and help wherever and whenever I
                      can. I only wish I had the power of millions of people to help the
                      animals, for they suffer every second.

                      Jodi


                      RoseMary Brown wrote:

                      >
                      Jodi,

                      > I agree with you, but you must agree that the
                      different organizations,
                      > as well as individuals, have totally different
                      approaches as to how we
                      > should help our animal friends.  Would
                      that we could all join together
                      > for the animals.

                      >
                      Romie
                      >
                      > >>> jodi.de.vries@... 11/06/02 11:21AM >>>
                      > There are not enough people on the animals' side of defense
                      to
                      > differentiate.. we must stand together for our non-human
                      friends.  There
                      > is a place for everyone to plug in, dependent upon
                      how you believe and
                      > how far you will go.
                      >
                      > I feel it is a
                      waste of valuable time trying to differentiate between
                      >
                      welfare/rights/liberation of animals, time that could be better spent
                      >
                      helping them.
                      >
                      > For the animals,
                      >
                      Jodi
                      >
                      >
                      > Pelagus Vegan wrote:
                      >
                      > > I'm just
                      curious... How can you consider a group that supports PETA as
                      > > an
                      animals rights group?
                      > > PETA supports welfare, nothing
                      else....
                      > >
                      > > Nathalie
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >     There's a group here on Yahoo that I hope everyone
                      will join.
                      > >     (Especially you, Colleen!)
                      =)
                      > >
                      > >    
                      href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pro-Animal-Rights/">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pro-Animal-Rights/
                      > >
                      > >     Hope to see you all there!
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > To unsubscribe from
                      this group, send an email to:
                      > >
                      HLSsucks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                      Service
                      > > <
                      href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      >
                      HLSsucks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of
                      Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                      > <
                      href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                      >
                      >
                      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      >
                      HLSsucks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of
                      Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                      > <
                      href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.



                      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                    • Jodi de Vries
                      This type of freeing that you speak of is definitely not something I endorse.. it cannot be deemed (imho) liberation, either. Just as beauty is in the eye of
                      Message 10 of 12 , Nov 6, 2002
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                        This type of "freeing" that you speak of is definitely not something I
                        endorse.. it cannot be deemed (imho) liberation, either.
                        Just as beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so is the liberation of
                        animals, the rights and also welfare of animals.


                        RoseMary Brown wrote:

                        > Yes, it is. They are a powerful organization and do wonderful
                        > things. They also believe (at least some of the officials) that ALL
                        > animals should be "free" and have gone around to dog and cat shows and
                        > released the animals from their cages. Can you imagine the bedlam
                        > after that occurs? How many animals have been killed by running
                        > frantically into traffic or whatever?
                        >
                        > Romie
                        >
                        > >>> jodi.de.vries@... 11/06/02 12:10PM >>>
                        > PeTA has always supported animal liberation.
                        > To me, that is something more.
                        >
                        > RoseMary Brown wrote:
                        >
                        > > Excuse me, Nathalie, what do you mean "PETA supports welfare, nothing
                        > > else....?" PETA would also be classified as an an "activist"
                        > > organization in my definition.
                        > >
                        > > Romie
                        > >
                        > > >>> pelagus@... 11/06/02 11:09AM >>>
                        > > I'm just curious... How can you consider a group that supports PETA as
                        > > an animals rights group?
                        > > PETA supports welfare, nothing else....
                        > >
                        > > Nathalie
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > There's a group here on Yahoo that I hope everyone will join.
                        > > (Especially you, Colleen!) =)
                        > >
                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pro-Animal-Rights/
                        > >
                        > > Hope to see you all there!
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > > HLSsucks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                        > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                        > >
                        > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > > HLSsucks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                        > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > HLSsucks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                        > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > HLSsucks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                        > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                      • Pelagus Vegan
                        Dear Jodi, ... The most egregious example of the fundamentally important difference between rights and welfare is when PeTA, in order to re-allocate resources
                        Message 11 of 12 , Nov 6, 2002
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                          Dear Jodi,
                           
                          You write:
                           
                          >There are not enough people on the animals' side of defense to
                          >differentiate.. we must stand together for our non-human friends. 
                          There
                          >is a place for everyone to plug in, dependent upon how you believe
                          and
                          >how far you will go.
                          >
                          >I feel it is a waste of valuable
                          time trying to differentiate between
                          >welfare/rights/liberation of
                          animals, time that could be better spent
                          >helping them.

                          The most egregious example of the fundamentally important difference between rights and welfare is when PeTA, in order to re-allocate resources within its multi-million dollar budget, killed healthy rabbits and turkeys at its Crystal Springs "sanctuary." Both PeTA and vivisectors support animal welfare; the idea that it is acceptable to use animals as long as it is done "humanely". The problem is that, because animals are property under the law (i.e. beings who can be used exclusively as resources to benefit others), "humane" treatment gets translated by the law as only protecting the interests of animals that are necessary to exploit them efficiently. (e.g. making sure rats have enough water in order to keep them alive long enough to experiment on--unless it's a dehydration experiment) Thus, to promote welfare is to ensure that the interests of animals that are unrelated to exploiting them efficiently will always be violated. Protecting other interests is not and will never be possible under welfarism because doing so would force owners (e.g. vivisectors) to give more value to their property (e.g. rats) than what it is worth to them financially. Moreover, property owners themselves have the legal right to use their property in any way they wish as long as they do not gratuitously "waste" it. No difference between rights and welfare?: it certainly made a difference to the rabbits and turkeys PeTA killed, and to the animals used in laboratories all across the world--the most highly regulated animal use industry. I urge you to read:
                           
                           
                           
                          As far as there not being enough human people to advocate animal rights, I agree with you; I can count them on my two hands. The only national group that promotes rights is Friends of Animals, www.friendsofanimals.org, who I highly recommend. What we need to do is remove animals from the class of legal property. That will never happen unless most of society accepts the idea that animals have the right not to be used as resources. It is impossible to agree with this idea and not be vegan. Therefore, helping others go vegan is the best way to change social attitides, and incrementally abolish the property status of animals. 
                        • parrot004@aol.com
                          Jodi...You forgot to mention conservation....LOL...just pickin. Missy
                          Message 12 of 12 , Nov 6, 2002
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                            Jodi...You forgot to mention conservation....LOL...just pickin.

                            Missy


                            I feel it is a waste of valuable time trying to differentiate between
                            welfare/rights/liberation of animals, time that could be better spent
                            helping them.



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