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Re: HDTV SAT/OTA Options

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  • Mike Iimura <miimura@yahoo.com>
    You ve discovered the biggest weakness with Sony 4:3 HiScan TVs. For any 1080i signal it will ALWAYS turn on the V-Compression. When the station upconverts
    Message 1 of 22 , Jan 2, 2003
      You've discovered the biggest weakness with Sony 4:3 HiScan TVs. For
      any 1080i signal it will ALWAYS turn on the V-Compression. When the
      station upconverts 4:3 SD programs or your STB upconverts for you,
      there will be black or black and gray border around the whole
      picture. The only way around this is to feed the set 480i or 480p.
      Most STBs don't have a quick and easy way to switch to 480p on the
      component output, so for most people, the easiest way is to connect a
      S-Video cable from the STB to another input on the TV. Set the STB
      to zoom the picture so that the 4:3 picture fills the screen. Then
      you just have to switch the input to see the 4:3 programs in full
      screen mode. A bit painful, but I think it's the best workaround.

      Of course, the best solution is for Sony to allow you to zoom the
      1080i to the full screen height and discard the useless pillar bars.
      One can only dream...

      - Mike

      --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "sjfxl <sjfxl@y...>"
      <sjfxl@y...> wrote:
      > Thanks for all the quick feedback. I did for now pick up the
      > Zenith to try it out. Working well, I get about 10 channels
      > with rabbit ears (2,4,7.1,7.1,9.1,9.2, and some others). Only
      > problem, for all channels except 9.1 which is HDTV broadcast,
      > it is showing the picture in 16:9 windowed mode. So the 4:3
      > broadcast is on a 30" diagonal square instead of 40" diagonal.
      > Been through the menus and manuals but no luck. Any ideas? I'll
      > start surfing the web otherwise.
      >
      [snip]
      >
      > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, Randy Bergen
      > <Randy.Bergen@a...> wrote:
      > > Wow that is a good price. I paid $2650 for mine. Are you sure you
      > > got a 800 and not a 700?
      > >
      > > sjfxl wrote:
      > >
      > > >Hi I'm new to the list, although I've been reading about
      > > >six hours now! I just got the Sony 40XBR800, wasn't looking
      > > >for something like that but got a good deal on a floor model
      > > >at GoodGuys Emeryville ($2049 w/stand).
    • Rob Pfile
      just my 2c: i ve had HD100 + 32 XBR450 for more than a year now, and i had serious problems with the HD100 OTA reception until i finally got the latest
      Message 2 of 22 , Jan 2, 2003
        just my 2c: i've had HD100 + 32" XBR450 for more than a year now, and
        i had serious problems with the HD100 OTA reception until i finally
        got the latest firmware from sony. direcTV is supposed to periodically
        send the firmware updates, but they apparently stopped sending it (D*
        customer service bites and i never got anywhere with them, so i had to
        send the box to sony, which took weeks, but it was worth it.)

        in feb 2002 i got a DSR6000 (philips dual-tuner direcTiVo) and i
        basically never use the HD100 anymore, except for HDNET, SHO-HD and
        OTA HD. tivo rules, and i wish there was an HD tivo!

        i think if you are a new direcTV customer, direcTV will subsidize the
        dish and receiver to a certain extent. when i bought the DSR6000 it
        was $99 for current subscribers and $49 for new subscribers
        (!). shortly thereafter the price went up to something like $395. i
        think even now you can get 2 low-end SD D* tuners and a dish for $99
        with a $100 rebate. not sure if that deal includes an oval dish
        though, which you need for the HD channels.

        i didnt do enough research before buying the HD100; i paid for and
        installed the 18x24" dish myself.

        i'd guess that the HD200 is probably the best bet against a sony TV,
        but there have apparently been a lot of problems with HD200. you might
        check avsforum.com's HDTV hardware forum, it's very useful.

        rob
      • sjfxl <sjfxl@yahoo.com>
        Thanks for clearing this up Mike. I ve found that the Zenith HD520 has a switch to force 1080i, 720p, 480p or 480i. So by changing that to 480p (even with
        Message 3 of 22 , Jan 4, 2003
          Thanks for clearing this up Mike.

          I've found that the Zenith HD520 has a switch to force 1080i,
          720p, 480p or 480i. So by changing that to 480p (even with
          component video outputs) I can get the full 4:3. The Fiesta
          Bowl looked great tonight (really great considering I'm from
          Ohio!). Only problem is it is NOT on the remote. Does anyone
          know a receiver that allows you by remote to change from 1080i
          to 480p? I heard that maybe the Sony HD100 can do this. I know
          the HD200 cannot nor can the Hughes. I did see on the Samsung
          T160 it has a 3 position switch on the back for this, so I'm
          guessing it is the same sort of deal. Why would they NOT put this
          on the remote? I'm actually considering returning the Sony 40XBR800
          and getting a Mitsubishi with an integrated tuner to avoid all this.

          Thanks.

          -Steve


          --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Iimura <miimura@y...>"
          <miimura@y...> wrote:
          > You've discovered the biggest weakness with Sony 4:3 HiScan TVs.
          For
          > any 1080i signal it will ALWAYS turn on the V-Compression. When
          the
          > station upconverts 4:3 SD programs or your STB upconverts for you,
          > there will be black or black and gray border around the whole
          > picture. The only way around this is to feed the set 480i or
          480p.
          > Most STBs don't have a quick and easy way to switch to 480p on the
          > component output, so for most people, the easiest way is to connect
          a
          > S-Video cable from the STB to another input on the TV. Set the STB
          > to zoom the picture so that the 4:3 picture fills the screen. Then
          > you just have to switch the input to see the 4:3 programs in full
          > screen mode. A bit painful, but I think it's the best workaround.
          >
          > Of course, the best solution is for Sony to allow you to zoom the
          > 1080i to the full screen height and discard the useless pillar
          bars.
          > One can only dream...
          >
          > - Mike
          >
          > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "sjfxl <sjfxl@y...>"
          > <sjfxl@y...> wrote:
          > > Thanks for all the quick feedback. I did for now pick up the
          > > Zenith to try it out. Working well, I get about 10 channels
          > > with rabbit ears (2,4,7.1,7.1,9.1,9.2, and some others). Only
          > > problem, for all channels except 9.1 which is HDTV broadcast,
          > > it is showing the picture in 16:9 windowed mode. So the 4:3
          > > broadcast is on a 30" diagonal square instead of 40" diagonal.
          > > Been through the menus and manuals but no luck. Any ideas? I'll
          > > start surfing the web otherwise.
          > >
          > [snip]
          > >
          > > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, Randy Bergen
          > > <Randy.Bergen@a...> wrote:
          > > > Wow that is a good price. I paid $2650 for mine. Are you sure
          you
          > > > got a 800 and not a 700?
          > > >
          > > > sjfxl wrote:
          > > >
          > > > >Hi I'm new to the list, although I've been reading about
          > > > >six hours now! I just got the Sony 40XBR800, wasn't looking
          > > > >for something like that but got a good deal on a floor model
          > > > >at GoodGuys Emeryville ($2049 w/stand).
        • bryn4ne
          If you re using the set for mostly DVD movies why not just get a widescreen set and see more of the movie/program? Sony makes a very nice 34 widescreen for
          Message 4 of 22 , Jan 4, 2003
            If you're using the set for mostly DVD movies why not just get a widescreen set and see more of the movie/program?  Sony makes a very nice 34" widescreen for $2500 retail wich I think is about what you paid for the 40" right?  I think that the size of a widescreen image is nearly the same size on either.  If HD is what your after then a widescreen makes even more sense because that is the HD standard even though some programming in the interim will be pillarboxed.
             
            As far a switching the output resolution on the fly it can be done on the Zenith, probably the Sony as well, although I don't know if the codes for either are on the remote.  They both have direct acess to all the output modes via the RS232 connector in the back when using more sophisticated control gear.
             
            Bryn4ne
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 01:38
            Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: HDTV SAT/OTA Options

            Thanks for clearing this up Mike.

            I've found that the Zenith HD520 has a switch to force 1080i,
            720p, 480p or 480i.  So by changing that to 480p (even with
            component video outputs) I can get the full 4:3.  The Fiesta
            Bowl looked great tonight (really great considering I'm from
            Ohio!).  Only problem is it is NOT on the remote.  Does anyone
            know a receiver that allows you by remote to change from 1080i
            to 480p?  I heard that maybe the Sony HD100 can do this.  I know
            the HD200 cannot nor can the Hughes.  I did see on the Samsung
            T160 it has a 3 position switch on the back for this, so I'm
            guessing it is the same sort of deal.  Why would they NOT put this
            on the remote?  I'm actually considering returning the Sony 40XBR800
            and getting a Mitsubishi with an integrated tuner to avoid all this.

            Thanks.

            -Steve
          • sjfxl <sjfxl@yahoo.com>
            That was my inital intent, to get the 34 widescreen. But I got a great deal ($2049) on an openbox 40 4:3 which gives me the a bigger widescreen (37 for
            Message 5 of 22 , Jan 4, 2003
              That was my inital intent, to get the 34" widescreen. But I got a
              great deal ($2049) on an openbox 40" 4:3 which gives me the a bigger
              widescreen (37" for 1080i and 34.5 for DVD) and 40" for 4:3 instead
              of 27" with the 34" widescreen. Of course, this was not knowing
              about this issue which is making the 40" really a 30" in 4:3 digital.

              But you are right I am reconsidering widescreen models but I would
              probably go with a Rear Projection so the little bit of 4:3 I do
              watch is bigger then the 27" you get from the 34" widescreen.

              Thanks.

              -Steve

              --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "bryn4ne" <bfourney@h...> wrote:
              > If you're using the set for mostly DVD movies why not just get a
              widescreen set and see more of the movie/program? Sony makes a very
              nice 34" widescreen for $2500 retail wich I think is about what you
              paid for the 40" right? I think that the size of a widescreen image
              is nearly the same size on either. If HD is what your after then a
              widescreen makes even more sense because that is the HD standard even
              though some programming in the interim will be pillarboxed.
              >
              > As far a switching the output resolution on the fly it can be done
              on the Zenith, probably the Sony as well, although I don't know if
              the codes for either are on the remote. They both have direct acess
              to all the output modes via the RS232 connector in the back when
              using more sophisticated control gear.
              >
              > Bryn4ne
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: sjfxl <sjfxl@y...>
              > To: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 01:38
              > Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: HDTV SAT/OTA Options
              >
              >
              > Thanks for clearing this up Mike.
              >
              > I've found that the Zenith HD520 has a switch to force 1080i,
              > 720p, 480p or 480i. So by changing that to 480p (even with
              > component video outputs) I can get the full 4:3. The Fiesta
              > Bowl looked great tonight (really great considering I'm from
              > Ohio!). Only problem is it is NOT on the remote. Does anyone
              > know a receiver that allows you by remote to change from 1080i
              > to 480p? I heard that maybe the Sony HD100 can do this. I know
              > the HD200 cannot nor can the Hughes. I did see on the Samsung
              > T160 it has a 3 position switch on the back for this, so I'm
              > guessing it is the same sort of deal. Why would they NOT put this
              > on the remote? I'm actually considering returning the Sony
              40XBR800
              > and getting a Mitsubishi with an integrated tuner to avoid all
              this.
              >
              > Thanks.
              >
              > -Steve
            • David Caine
              But an integrated digital tuner is not necessarily going to solve your problem. ... __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo!
              Message 6 of 22 , Jan 4, 2003
                But an integrated digital tuner is not necessarily
                going to solve your problem.


                --- "sjfxl <sjfxl@...>" <sjfxl@...> wrote:
                > That was my inital intent, to get the 34"
                > widescreen. But I got a
                > great deal ($2049) on an openbox 40" 4:3 which gives
                > me the a bigger
                > widescreen (37" for 1080i and 34.5 for DVD) and 40"
                > for 4:3 instead
                > of 27" with the 34" widescreen. Of course, this was
                > not knowing
                > about this issue which is making the 40" really a
                > 30" in 4:3 digital.
                >
                > But you are right I am reconsidering widescreen
                > models but I would
                > probably go with a Rear Projection so the little bit
                > of 4:3 I do
                > watch is bigger then the 27" you get from the 34"
                > widescreen.
                >
                > Thanks.
                >
                > -Steve
                >
                > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "bryn4ne"
                > <bfourney@h...> wrote:
                > > If you're using the set for mostly DVD movies why
                > not just get a
                > widescreen set and see more of the movie/program?
                > Sony makes a very
                > nice 34" widescreen for $2500 retail wich I think is
                > about what you
                > paid for the 40" right? I think that the size of a
                > widescreen image
                > is nearly the same size on either. If HD is what
                > your after then a
                > widescreen makes even more sense because that is the
                > HD standard even
                > though some programming in the interim will be
                > pillarboxed.
                > >
                > > As far a switching the output resolution on the
                > fly it can be done
                > on the Zenith, probably the Sony as well, although I
                > don't know if
                > the codes for either are on the remote. They both
                > have direct acess
                > to all the output modes via the RS232 connector in
                > the back when
                > using more sophisticated control gear.
                > >
                > > Bryn4ne
                > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > From: sjfxl <sjfxl@y...>
                > > To: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com
                > > Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 01:38
                > > Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: HDTV SAT/OTA
                > Options
                > >
                > >
                > > Thanks for clearing this up Mike.
                > >
                > > I've found that the Zenith HD520 has a switch to
                > force 1080i,
                > > 720p, 480p or 480i. So by changing that to 480p
                > (even with
                > > component video outputs) I can get the full 4:3.
                > The Fiesta
                > > Bowl looked great tonight (really great
                > considering I'm from
                > > Ohio!). Only problem is it is NOT on the
                > remote. Does anyone
                > > know a receiver that allows you by remote to
                > change from 1080i
                > > to 480p? I heard that maybe the Sony HD100 can
                > do this. I know
                > > the HD200 cannot nor can the Hughes. I did see
                > on the Samsung
                > > T160 it has a 3 position switch on the back for
                > this, so I'm
                > > guessing it is the same sort of deal. Why would
                > they NOT put this
                > > on the remote? I'm actually considering
                > returning the Sony
                > 40XBR800
                > > and getting a Mitsubishi with an integrated
                > tuner to avoid all
                > this.
                > >
                > > Thanks.
                > >
                > > -Steve
                >
                >


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              • bryn4ne
                If your looking at Widescreen HD capable sets I would look at: Pioneer Elite - Arguably the best picture, but also the most expensive Toshiba - Preffered by
                Message 7 of 22 , Jan 4, 2003
                  If your looking at Widescreen HD capable sets I would look at:
                   
                  Pioneer Elite - Arguably the best picture, but also the most expensive
                  Toshiba - Preffered by many enthusiasts as a value set that performs well when setup right
                   
                  I would probably stay away from Hitachi and Mitsubishi unless you want something as cheap as possible.  Sony etc is good middle of the road.  If I remember correctly Toshiba has a 40" widescreen set that's always been well liked somewhere around the $2500 mark.
                   
                  Bryn4ne
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 08:53
                  Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: HDTV SAT/OTA Options

                  That was my inital intent, to get the 34" widescreen.  But I got a
                  great deal ($2049) on an openbox 40" 4:3 which gives me the a bigger
                  widescreen (37" for 1080i and 34.5 for DVD) and 40" for 4:3 instead
                  of 27" with the 34" widescreen.  Of course, this was not knowing
                  about this issue which is making the 40" really a 30" in 4:3 digital.

                  But you are right I am reconsidering widescreen models but I would
                  probably go with a Rear Projection so the little bit of 4:3 I do
                  watch is bigger then the 27" you get from the 34" widescreen.

                  Thanks.

                  -Steve

                • anastrophe2 <yhgroups@anastrophe.com>
                  ... want something as cheap as possible. ?? Not sure why you think Mitsubishi s are cheap. Their 73 widescreen is the largest rear-projection HDTV you can
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jan 4, 2003
                    --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "bryn4ne" <bfourney@h...>
                    wrote:
                    > I would probably stay away from Hitachi and Mitsubishi unless you
                    want something as cheap as possible.

                    ?? Not sure why you think Mitsubishi's are cheap. Their 73"
                    widescreen is the largest rear-projection HDTV you can buy, and it's
                    definitely not cheap, either in cost, or quality. built in OTA
                    receiver, dual analog tuners, multiple IEEE1394 ports, multiple
                    component and rca inputs, digital audio output, smartcard port for
                    upgrades, 64 point convergence - to name just a few of the features.
                  • Peter Cold
                    I ve had a 46 widescreen mits for almost two years now. i love it. why the bias against mits bryn4ne? ... __________________________________________________
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jan 4, 2003
                      I've had a 46" widescreen mits for almost two years
                      now. i love it. why the bias against mits bryn4ne?

                      --- bryn4ne <bfourney@...> wrote:
                      > If your looking at Widescreen HD capable sets I
                      > would look at:
                      >
                      > Pioneer Elite - Arguably the best picture, but also
                      > the most expensive
                      > Toshiba - Preffered by many enthusiasts as a value
                      > set that performs well when setup right
                      >
                      > I would probably stay away from Hitachi and
                      > Mitsubishi unless you want something as cheap as
                      > possible. Sony etc is good middle of the road. If
                      > I remember correctly Toshiba has a 40" widescreen
                      > set that's always been well liked somewhere around
                      > the $2500 mark.
                      >
                      > Bryn4ne
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: sjfxl <sjfxl@...>
                      > To: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 08:53
                      > Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: HDTV SAT/OTA Options
                      >
                      >
                      > That was my inital intent, to get the 34"
                      > widescreen. But I got a
                      > great deal ($2049) on an openbox 40" 4:3 which
                      > gives me the a bigger
                      > widescreen (37" for 1080i and 34.5 for DVD) and
                      > 40" for 4:3 instead
                      > of 27" with the 34" widescreen. Of course, this
                      > was not knowing
                      > about this issue which is making the 40" really a
                      > 30" in 4:3 digital.
                      >
                      > But you are right I am reconsidering widescreen
                      > models but I would
                      > probably go with a Rear Projection so the little
                      > bit of 4:3 I do
                      > watch is bigger then the 27" you get from the 34"
                      > widescreen.
                      >
                      > Thanks.
                      >
                      > -Steve
                      >
                      >


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                    • bryn4ne
                      Well I have found from my experience that Mitsubishi is focused more on quantity than quality. Some of their flagship TV s may use better parts, but that was
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jan 4, 2003
                        Well I have found from my experience that Mitsubishi is focused more on quantity than quality.  Some of their flagship TV's may use better parts, but that was not my experience.  It's also been a few years since I seriously looked at a Mitsu RPTV.  Some of their TV's are definately a good value for the money, and they are usually are one of the first to incorporate new technologies.  I'm sure it's unfair to lump them with Hitachi though who I would put at the bottom of the pile.  I'm also sure that many of the Mitsu's can be modded/adjusted like the Toshibas to display an outstanding picture.
                         
                        Just some finer points to look for when looking at an RPTV-
                         
                        -Multi Point convergence (a must)
                        -At Least one set of HD capable component inputs
                        -First Surface mirrors (brightness/focus)
                        -8"+ CRT's (more resolution)
                        -Coated CRT's (for accurate colors - green especially)
                        -fine pitch screen
                        -CRT's mounted to MDF - NOT plasic (focus/convergence/longevity)
                        -No radical color spotting or shifting when viewed off center
                        -Ability to defeat SVM
                        -Adjustable color temp
                        -Good DC power supply (black level doesn't shift)
                         
                        Bryn4ne
                         
                         
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 14:31
                        Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: HDTV SAT/OTA Options

                        --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "bryn4ne" <bfourney@h...>
                        wrote:
                        > I would probably stay away from Hitachi and Mitsubishi unless you
                        want something as cheap as possible. 

                        ?? Not sure why you think Mitsubishi's are cheap. Their 73"
                        widescreen is the largest rear-projection HDTV you can buy, and it's
                        definitely not cheap, either in cost, or quality.  built in OTA
                        receiver, dual analog tuners, multiple IEEE1394 ports, multiple
                        component and rca inputs, digital audio output, smartcard port for
                        upgrades, 64 point convergence - to name just a few of the features.

                      • David Caine
                        Do any of the mfgs listed below even make an RPTV with 9 CRTs anymore? I know that the Pioneer Elites used to have 9 CRTs, but I don t think that they do
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jan 4, 2003
                          Do any of the mfgs listed below even make an RPTV with
                          9" CRTs anymore? I know that the Pioneer Elites used
                          to have 9" CRTs, but I don't think that they do
                          anymore. According to what I've read, anything less
                          than 9" CRTs won't give you maximum HD resolution
                          (i.e., the display will show fewer than all of the
                          available pixels).


                          --- bryn4ne <bfourney@...> wrote:
                          > Well I have found from my experience that Mitsubishi
                          > is focused more on quantity than quality. Some of
                          > their flagship TV's may use better parts, but that
                          > was not my experience. It's also been a few years
                          > since I seriously looked at a Mitsu RPTV. Some of
                          > their TV's are definately a good value for the
                          > money, and they are usually are one of the first to
                          > incorporate new technologies. I'm sure it's unfair
                          > to lump them with Hitachi though who I would put at
                          > the bottom of the pile. I'm also sure that many of
                          > the Mitsu's can be modded/adjusted like the Toshibas
                          > to display an outstanding picture.
                          >
                          > Just some finer points to look for when looking at
                          > an RPTV-
                          >
                          > -Multi Point convergence (a must)
                          > -At Least one set of HD capable component inputs
                          > -First Surface mirrors (brightness/focus)
                          > -8"+ CRT's (more resolution)
                          > -Coated CRT's (for accurate colors - green
                          > especially)
                          > -fine pitch screen
                          > -CRT's mounted to MDF - NOT plasic
                          > (focus/convergence/longevity)
                          > -No radical color spotting or shifting when viewed
                          > off center
                          > -Ability to defeat SVM
                          > -Adjustable color temp
                          > -Good DC power supply (black level doesn't shift)
                          >
                          > Bryn4ne
                          >
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: anastrophe2 <yhgroups@...>
                          > To: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 14:31
                          > Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: HDTV SAT/OTA Options
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "bryn4ne"
                          > <bfourney@h...>
                          > wrote:
                          > > I would probably stay away from Hitachi and
                          > Mitsubishi unless you
                          > want something as cheap as possible.
                          >
                          > ?? Not sure why you think Mitsubishi's are cheap.
                          > Their 73"
                          > widescreen is the largest rear-projection HDTV you
                          > can buy, and it's
                          > definitely not cheap, either in cost, or quality.
                          > built in OTA
                          > receiver, dual analog tuners, multiple IEEE1394
                          > ports, multiple
                          > component and rca inputs, digital audio output,
                          > smartcard port for
                          > upgrades, 64 point convergence - to name just a
                          > few of the features.
                          >
                          >


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                        • anastrophe2 <yhgroups@anastrophe.com>
                          ... yes - the Mitsu WS73909 (soon to be replaced by the WS73711 in their lineup) uses 9 CRT s, and meets all of the criteria listed below as well. However,
                          Message 12 of 22 , Jan 4, 2003
                            --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, David Caine <dacaine@y...>
                            wrote:
                            > Do any of the mfgs listed below even make an RPTV with
                            > 9" CRTs anymore? I know that the Pioneer Elites used
                            > to have 9" CRTs, but I don't think that they do
                            > anymore. According to what I've read, anything less
                            > than 9" CRTs won't give you maximum HD resolution
                            > (i.e., the display will show fewer than all of the
                            > available pixels).

                            yes - the Mitsu WS73909 (soon to be replaced by the WS73711
                            in their lineup) uses 9" CRT's, and meets all of the criteria listed
                            below as well. However, it's not cheap. But wait...that's what this
                            mini thread started with! ;^)

                            check out the specs here:

                            http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/PDFs/diamondSpecs2003.pdf

                            note though that i disagree about the CRT's being mounted on plastic
                            being a problem. There are many kinds of plastic, from disposable
                            bags that crumple in a baby's hand, to kevlar that can stop (some)
                            bullets.

                            > > -Multi Point convergence (a must)
                            > > -At Least one set of HD capable component inputs
                            > > -First Surface mirrors (brightness/focus)
                            > > -8"+ CRT's (more resolution)
                            > > -Coated CRT's (for accurate colors - green
                            > > especially)
                            > > -fine pitch screen
                            > > -CRT's mounted to MDF - NOT plasic
                            > > (focus/convergence/longevity)
                            > > -No radical color spotting or shifting when viewed
                            > > off center
                            > > -Ability to defeat SVM
                            > > -Adjustable color temp
                            > > -Good DC power supply (black level doesn't shift)
                            > >
                            > > Bryn4ne
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > From: anastrophe2 <yhgroups@a...>
                            > > To: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 14:31
                            > > Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: HDTV SAT/OTA Options
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "bryn4ne"
                            > > <bfourney@h...>
                            > > wrote:
                            > > > I would probably stay away from Hitachi and
                            > > Mitsubishi unless you
                            > > want something as cheap as possible.
                            > >
                            > > ?? Not sure why you think Mitsubishi's are cheap.
                            > > Their 73"
                            > > widescreen is the largest rear-projection HDTV you
                            > > can buy, and it's
                            > > definitely not cheap, either in cost, or quality.
                            > > built in OTA
                            > > receiver, dual analog tuners, multiple IEEE1394
                            > > ports, multiple
                            > > component and rca inputs, digital audio output,
                            > > smartcard port for
                            > > upgrades, 64 point convergence - to name just a
                            > > few of the features.
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
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                          • bryn4ne
                            I checked the specs on the Mitsu 72 and it looks like a very respectable set. It seems to have all the important things including 9 CRT s wich is very hard
                            Message 13 of 22 , Jan 4, 2003
                              I checked the specs on the Mitsu 72" and it looks like a very respectable set.  It seems to have all the important things including 9" CRT's wich is very hard to find in a RPTV.
                               
                              I have seen in the past where cheaper sets that use plastic to mount the CRTs will loose focus over time.  As the TV gets hot the plastic deforms a little under the weight of the CRT's.  Multiply this over any significant amount of time and you are going to be constantly reconverging the set.  Al CRT's lose convergence over time, but it seems to happen all the time in theese cases.  It also adversely affects the geometry which generally cannot be fixed by the user.
                               
                              One set I forgot to mention is Zenith who seems to be making a comeback lately, especially with High Definition.
                               
                              Bryn4ne
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 16:17
                              Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: HDTV SAT/OTA Options

                              --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, David Caine <dacaine@y...>
                              wrote:
                              > Do any of the mfgs listed below even make an RPTV with
                              > 9" CRTs anymore?  I know that the Pioneer Elites used
                              > to have 9" CRTs, but I don't think that they do
                              > anymore.  According to what I've read, anything less
                              > than 9" CRTs won't give you maximum HD resolution
                              > (i.e., the display will show fewer than all of the
                              > available pixels).

                              yes - the Mitsu WS73909 (soon to be replaced by the WS73711
                              in their lineup) uses 9" CRT's, and meets all of the criteria listed
                              below as well. However, it's not cheap. But wait...that's what this
                              mini thread started with! ;^)

                              check out the specs here:

                              http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/PDFs/diamondSpecs2003.pdf

                              note though that i disagree about the CRT's being mounted on plastic
                              being a problem. There are many kinds of plastic, from disposable
                              bags that crumple in a baby's hand, to kevlar that can stop (some)
                              bullets. 

                            • bryn4ne
                              There are very few RPTV s that use above a 7 CRT. I don t think that any 7 CRT is capable of resolving 1920 pixels of width in the 1080i signal, but
                              Message 14 of 22 , Jan 4, 2003
                                There are very few RPTV's that use above a 7" CRT.  I don't think that any 7" CRT is capable of resolving 1920 pixels of width in the 1080i signal, but typically a broadcast only uses about 1500 pixels on a 1080i broadcast anyway.  The smallest CRT's that I am aware of that can resolve 1920 pixels are 8".
                                 
                                Bryn4ne 
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 15:48
                                Subject: Re: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: HDTV SAT/OTA Options

                                Do any of the mfgs listed below even make an RPTV with
                                9" CRTs anymore?  I know that the Pioneer Elites used
                                to have 9" CRTs, but I don't think that they do
                                anymore.  According to what I've read, anything less
                                than 9" CRTs won't give you maximum HD resolution
                                (i.e., the display will show fewer than all of the
                                available pixels).
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