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Re: [HDTV-in-SFbay] UHF Antenna in Almaden Valley of San Jose - still struggling with ABC reception

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  • Stephen H. Fischer
    Hi, After looking at the antenna pattern for RF 35 and that it was on Monument Peak I realized that the posts I remembered perhaps were not about KGO RF 35.
    Message 1 of 17 , Jan 8, 2012
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      Hi,

      After looking at the antenna pattern for RF 35 and that it was on Monument Peak I realized that the posts I remembered perhaps were not about KGO RF 35.

      I found this at the bottom of Larry's list:

      > 7-KGO an on-channel (channel 7) translator for Mt. San Bruno.

      size=2 face=Arial>

      That may have been what the discussion was about I remembered.

      Also when I discovered that RF 35 was on Monument peak I had to use a different antenna to check for RF 35 and it is there.

      Monument peak is North East of me, the transmitters from there I get best with two indoor antennas, one pointed South East and one pointed North West.

      My main antenna is pointed North West towards Sutro and gets RF 36 and RF 50 just fine, but not RF 35.

      I need a refresh from Larry as to why KGO put RF 35 on Monument Peak.

      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      This line makes me wonder who is bidding for KCSM

      >

      43-New - callsigns pending the winners of lottery for channel. Two applications approved to share channel.

      I thought it would be AT&T, Version, T-Mobile, Sprint ... that would be the bidders. The DTV service to be shut down, combined with RF 44, RF 45 for Mobile telephone service only.

      SHF

       
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Herold
      Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 6:01 PM
      Subject: Re: [HDTV-in-SFbay] UHF Antenna in Almaden Valley of San Jose - still struggling with ABC reception

       

      Prior to the translator going online, I was out-of-luck with KGO. With
      the translator, I get it. And for the record, I am in Downtown San Jose,
      surrounded by buildings, with an indoor antenna.

      Even though my antenna claims to be VHF and UHF, the translator being
      UHF is the difference here. I get basically all the same stations as my
      parents -- who have a huge roof mounted antenna -- except for the VHF
      and North Bay stations.

      So, whether or not it is intended to help us poor unfortunates in Urban
      San Jose ... it does.

      On Sat, 7 Jan 2012 12:05:38 -0800
      "Stephen H. Fischer" <SFischer1@...> wrote:

      <snip>>

      > If I cannot receive RF 35 here in Sunnyvale, then I do not think you
      > can receive a RF 35 viable signal as you are much further South.

      <snip>

      > The KGO RF 35 signal is not intended to help viewers in San Jose but
      > those in the shadow of Mt. San Bruno, which is very close to Sutro.
      > Repeating, San Jose Viewers are NOT intended to be helped.
      >
      <snip>

    • Larry Kenney
      The KGO translator on Monument Peak, located above Fremont, is there to provide coverage for the South Bay where KGO s main signal on channel 7 is not very
      Message 2 of 17 , Jan 8, 2012
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        The KGO translator on Monument Peak, located above Fremont, is there to provide coverage for the South Bay where KGO's main signal on channel 7 is not very strong due to blockage by hills.   KTVU has a construction permit for a translator on channel 48 from Monument Peak for the same reason.  KPIX and KBCW have plans for translators on Mt. Vaca in the North Bay area.  KPIX has a construction permit for their translator which will be on channel 42 running 1.28 kW.  The KBCW translator has been applied for but, according to the on-line FCC records, has not received a construction permit yet.  It will be on channel 31 running .55 kW.

        Both KGO and KPIX have received Special Temporary Authority from the FCC for on-channel translators on Mt. San Bruno.  KGO's will transmit on channel 7 with 4.5 kW  and KPIX's will transmit on channel 29 with 3.9 kW ERP.  These are both experiments to see how well on-channel signals will work to fill in areas where signals from the main transmitter are weak.  One is on VHF and one is on UHF so that they can compare the results of the two different bands.  If they work, I suppose they'll get licensed.  Time will tell.

        This practice is already used by many FM stations here in the Bay Area to cover Marin, the Concord-Walnut Creek area and the Pleasanton-Livermore corridor where the main signals are blocked by hills or mountains.  These translators, often called Boosters, have been around for several years.  If you look at the list of FM stations you'll see call letters with numbers after them, like KOIT-FM1, KOIT-FM2, etc.  Those are the translators.

        Personally, I have no idea how the on-channel TV translator signals will work along with the main signal.  If you're in an area where you can receive both signals, what is your tuner going to do?  We'll find out when the two translators come alive on Mt. San Bruno.

        As for the two new stations approved for channel 43, those are in Sacramento and they will share the channel.  They have nothing to do with KCSM or KTVU.  

        Larry
        SF

        - - -

        On Jan 8, 2012, at 9:27 PM, Stephen H. Fischer wrote:

         

        Hi,

        After looking at the antenna pattern for RF 35 and that it was on Monument Peak I realized that the posts I remembered perhaps were not about KGO RF 35.

        I found this at the bottom of Larry's list:

        > 7-KGO an on-channel (channel 7) translator for Mt. San Bruno.

        That may have been what the discussion was about I remembered.

        Also when I discovered that RF 35 was on Monument peak I had to use a different antenna to check for RF 35 and it is there.

        Monument peak is North East of me, the transmitters from there I get best with two indoor antennas, one pointed South East and one pointed North West.

        My main antenna is pointed North West towards Sutro and gets RF 36 and RF 50 just fine, but not RF 35.

        I need a refresh from Larry as to why KGO put RF 35 on Monument Peak.

        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        This line makes me wonder who is bidding for KCSM

        > 43-New - callsigns pending the winners of lottery for channel. Two applications approved to share channel.

        I thought it would be AT&T, Version, T-Mobile, Sprint ... that would be the bidders. The DTV service to be shut down, combined with RF 44, RF 45 for Mobile telephone service only.

        SHF

         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Herold
        Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 6:01 PM
        Subject: Re: [HDTV-in-SFbay] UHF Antenna in Almaden Valley of San Jose - still struggling with ABC reception

         

        Prior to the translator going online, I was out-of-luck with KGO. With
        the translator, I get it. And for the record, I am in Downtown San Jose,
        surrounded by buildings, with an indoor antenna.

        Even though my antenna claims to be VHF and UHF, the translator being
        UHF is the difference here. I get basically all the same stations as my
        parents -- who have a huge roof mounted antenna -- except for the VHF
        and North Bay stations.

        So, whether or not it is intended to help us poor unfortunates in Urban
        San Jose ... it does.


      • Stephen H. Fischer
        Hi, Thanks. Perhaps a new page with these detailed explanations might be in order, just the list of one line after another is just not cutting it for me. I
        Message 3 of 17 , Jan 9, 2012
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          Hi,

          Thanks.

          Perhaps a new page with these detailed explanations might be in order, just the list of one line after another is just not cutting it for me.

          I hope the OP rescan gets him KGO RF 35. If RF 7 keeps coming up, I have some ideas that "Might" help without any antenna work.

          SHF

          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 10:19 PM
          Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Translator Clarifications, KGO, KTVU, KPIX and KBCW

           

          The KGO translator on Monument Peak, located above Fremont, is there to provide coverage for the South Bay where KGO's main signal on channel 7 is not very strong due to blockage by hills.  
          Larry
          SF

          - - -

          On Jan 8, 2012, at 9:27 PM, Stephen H. Fischer wrote:

           

          Hi,

          After looking at the antenna pattern for RF 35 and that it was on Monument Peak I realized that the posts I remembered perhaps were not about KGO RF 35.

          I found this at the bottom of Larry's list:

          > 7-KGO an on-channel (channel 7) translator for Mt. San Bruno.

          That may have been what the discussion was about I remembered.

          Also when I discovered that RF 35 was on Monument peak I had to use a different antenna to check for RF 35 and it is there.

          Monument peak is North East of me, the transmitters from there I get best with two indoor antennas, one pointed South East and one pointed North West.

          My main antenna is pointed North West towards Sutro and gets RF 36 and RF 50 just fine, but not RF 35.

          I need a refresh from Larry as to why KGO put RF 35 on Monument Peak.

          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

          This line makes me wonder who is bidding for KCSM

          > 43-New - callsigns pending the winners of lottery for channel. Two applications approved to share channel.

          I thought it would be AT&T, Version, T-Mobile, Sprint ... that would be the bidders. The DTV service to be shut down, combined with RF 44, RF 45 for Mobile telephone service only.

          SHF

           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Herold
          Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 6:01 PM
          Subject: Re: [HDTV-in-SFbay] UHF Antenna in Almaden Valley of San Jose - still struggling with ABC reception

           

          Prior to the translator going online, I was out-of-luck with KGO. With
          the translator, I get it. And for the record, I am in Downtown San Jose,
          surrounded by buildings, with an indoor antenna.

          Even though my antenna claims to be VHF and UHF, the translator being
          UHF is the difference here. I get basically all the same stations as my
          parents -- who have a huge roof mounted antenna -- except for the VHF
          and North Bay stations.

          So, whether or not it is intended to help us poor unfortunates in Urban
          San Jose ... it does.


        • ctmooregottapee
          haven t seen reports of anyone doing it elsewhere either the spec includes some sort of timing signal, etc that allows the tuner to compensate to the point
          Message 4 of 17 , Jan 9, 2012
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            haven't seen reports of anyone doing it elsewhere either

            the spec includes some sort of timing signal, etc that allows the tuner to compensate to the point where it doesn't care if it is getting a mixture of both signals, it appears the same

            it is online as i read it long ago
            possibly older tuners may be more unhappy about things

            probably the biggest error in this changeover was a lack of standards and then testing in tuners. the best setups out there are for the 480i boxes simply because the govt got more involved in that process to make sure the box would work. kinda sad you can't buy a HD capable tuner for HD channels that is better than the SD only boxes.

            the govt was more concerned about getting the spectrum back, and the broadcasters and manufacturers were more concerned about not being forced to do anything, which then left a black hole in the tuning.

            --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, Larry Kenney <Larry@...> wrote:
            >
            > The KGO translator on Monument Peak, located above Fremont, is there to provide coverage for the South Bay where KGO's main signal on channel 7 is not very strong due to blockage by hills. KTVU has a construction permit for a translator on channel 48 from Monument Peak for the same reason. KPIX and KBCW have plans for translators on Mt. Vaca in the North Bay area. KPIX has a construction permit for their translator which will be on channel 42 running 1.28 kW. The KBCW translator has been applied for but, according to the on-line FCC records, has not received a construction permit yet. It will be on channel 31 running .55 kW.
            >
            > Both KGO and KPIX have received Special Temporary Authority from the FCC for on-channel translators on Mt. San Bruno. KGO's will transmit on channel 7 with 4.5 kW and KPIX's will transmit on channel 29 with 3.9 kW ERP. These are both experiments to see how well on-channel signals will work to fill in areas where signals from the main transmitter are weak. One is on VHF and one is on UHF so that they can compare the results of the two different bands. If they work, I suppose they'll get licensed. Time will tell.
            >
            > This practice is already used by many FM stations here in the Bay Area to cover Marin, the Concord-Walnut Creek area and the Pleasanton-Livermore corridor where the main signals are blocked by hills or mountains. These translators, often called Boosters, have been around for several years. If you look at the list of FM stations you'll see call letters with numbers after them, like KOIT-FM1, KOIT-FM2, etc. Those are the translators.
            >
            > Personally, I have no idea how the on-channel TV translator signals will work along with the main signal. If you're in an area where you can receive both signals, what is your tuner going to do? We'll find out when the two translators come alive on Mt. San Bruno.
            >
            > As for the two new stations approved for channel 43, those are in Sacramento and they will share the channel. They have nothing to do with KCSM or KTVU.
            >
            > Larry
            > SF
            >
          • Larry Kenney
            Sorry, Stephen, but I m not wanting to add any more to my plate. Keeping the DTV lists up to date keeps me busy enough without adding more things to do. Save
            Message 5 of 17 , Jan 9, 2012
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              Sorry, Stephen, but I'm not wanting to add any more to my plate.  Keeping the DTV lists up to date keeps me busy enough without adding more things to do.

              Save all of the posts that come across with information and then you can refer to them when you need to.

              Larry

              - - -

              On Jan 9, 2012, at 10:06 AM, Stephen H. Fischer wrote:

               

              Hi,

              Thanks.

              Perhaps a new page with these detailed explanations might be in order, just the list of one line after another is just not cutting it for me.

              I hope the OP rescan gets him KGO RF 35. If RF 7 keeps coming up, I have some ideas that "Might" help without any antenna work.

              SHF

              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 10:19 PM
              Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Translator Clarifications, KGO, KTVU, KPIX and KBCW

               

              The KGO translator on Monument Peak, located above Fremont, is there to provide coverage for the South Bay where KGO's main signal on channel 7 is not very strong due to blockage by hills.  
              Larry
              SF

              - - -

              On Jan 8, 2012, at 9:27 PM, Stephen H. Fischer wrote:

               

              Hi,

              After looking at the antenna pattern for RF 35 and that it was on Monument Peak I realized that the posts I remembered perhaps were not about KGO RF 35.

              I found this at the bottom of Larry's list:

              > 7-KGO an on-channel (channel 7) translator for Mt. San Bruno.

              That may have been what the discussion was about I remembered.

              Also when I discovered that RF 35 was on Monument peak I had to use a different antenna to check for RF 35 and it is there.

              Monument peak is North East of me, the transmitters from there I get best with two indoor antennas, one pointed South East and one pointed North West.

              My main antenna is pointed North West towards Sutro and gets RF 36 and RF 50 just fine, but not RF 35.

              I need a refresh from Larry as to why KGO put RF 35 on Monument Peak.

              ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

              ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

              This line makes me wonder who is bidding for KCSM

              > 43-New - callsigns pending the winners of lottery for channel. Two applications approved to share channel.

              I thought it would be AT&T, Version, T-Mobile, Sprint ... that would be the bidders. The DTV service to be shut down, combined with RF 44, RF 45 for Mobile telephone service only.

              SHF

               
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Herold
              Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 6:01 PM
              Subject: Re: [HDTV-in-SFbay] UHF Antenna in Almaden Valley of San Jose - still struggling with ABC reception

               

              Prior to the translator going online, I was out-of-luck with KGO. With
              the translator, I get it. And for the record, I am in Downtown San Jose,
              surrounded by buildings, with an indoor antenna.

              Even though my antenna claims to be VHF and UHF, the translator being
              UHF is the difference here. I get basically all the same stations as my
              parents -- who have a huge roof mounted antenna -- except for the VHF
              and North Bay stations.

              So, whether or not it is intended to help us poor unfortunates in Urban
              San Jose ... it does.





            • Stephen H. Fischer
              Hi, Actually your comment about removing them altogether went very well with me. When they go live is the time to add them, too many just will not make it at
              Message 6 of 17 , Jan 9, 2012
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                Hi,

                Actually your comment about removing them altogether went very well with me.

                When they go live is the time to add them, too many just will not make it at all.

                And if the upcoming crunch happens it would be way too hard to post upcoming events as so many partners will break up, go with other partners and so on.

                I suggest you sidestep that also and just tell current stations on the air. There will be no fixed date when things change, it will be a real mess and not worth the effort!

                SHF

                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Monday, January 09, 2012 4:29 PM
                Subject: Re: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Translator Clarifications, KGO, KTVU, KPIX and KBCW

                 

                Sorry, Stephen, but I'm not wanting to add any more to my plate.  Keeping the DTV lists up to date keeps me busy enough without adding more things to do.


                Save all of the posts that come across with information and then you can refer to them when you need to.

                Larry

                - - -

                On Jan 9, 2012, at 10:06 AM, Stephen H. Fischer wrote:

                 

                Hi,

                Thanks.

                Perhaps a new page with these detailed explanations might be in order, just the list of one line after another is just not cutting it for me.

                I hope the OP rescan gets him KGO RF 35. If RF 7 keeps coming up, I have some ideas that "Might" help without any antenna work.

                SHF

                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 10:19 PM
                Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Translator Clarifications, KGO, KTVU, KPIX and KBCW

                 

                The KGO translator on Monument Peak, located above Fremont, is there to provide coverage for the South Bay where KGO's main signal on channel 7 is not very strong due to blockage by hills.  
                Larry
                SF

                - - -

                On Jan 8, 2012, at 9:27 PM, Stephen H. Fischer wrote:

                 

                Hi,

                After looking at the antenna pattern for RF 35 and that it was on Monument Peak I realized that the posts I remembered perhaps were not about KGO RF 35.

                I found this at the bottom of Larry's list:

                > 7-KGO an on-channel (channel 7) translator for Mt. San Bruno.

                That may have been what the discussion was about I remembered.

                Also when I discovered that RF 35 was on Monument peak I had to use a different antenna to check for RF 35 and it is there.

                Monument peak is North East of me, the transmitters from there I get best with two indoor antennas, one pointed South East and one pointed North West.

                My main antenna is pointed North West towards Sutro and gets RF 36 and RF 50 just fine, but not RF 35.

                I need a refresh from Larry as to why KGO put RF 35 on Monument Peak.

                ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                This line makes me wonder who is bidding for KCSM

                > 43-New - callsigns pending the winners of lottery for channel. Two applications approved to share channel.

                I thought it would be AT&T, Version, T-Mobile, Sprint ... that would be the bidders. The DTV service to be shut down, combined with RF 44, RF 45 for Mobile telephone service only.

                SHF

                 
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Herold
                Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 6:01 PM
                Subject: Re: [HDTV-in-SFbay] UHF Antenna in Almaden Valley of San Jose - still struggling with ABC reception

                 

                Prior to the translator going online, I was out-of-luck with KGO. With
                the translator, I get it. And for the record, I am in Downtown San Jose,
                surrounded by buildings, with an indoor antenna.

                Even though my antenna claims to be VHF and UHF, the translator being
                UHF is the difference here. I get basically all the same stations as my
                parents -- who have a huge roof mounted antenna -- except for the VHF
                and North Bay stations.

                So, whether or not it is intended to help us poor unfortunates in Urban
                San Jose ... it does.





              • kb1we6r
                How is the coverage of KGOs translator vs the other stations at that location? IE Monument/Alison
                Message 7 of 17 , Jan 16, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  How is the coverage of KGOs translator vs the other stations at that location? IE Monument/Alison

                  --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, Larry Kenney <Larry@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > The KGO translator on Monument Peak, located above Fremont, is there to provide coverage for the South Bay where KGO's main signal on channel 7 is not very strong due to blockage by hills. KTVU has a construction permit for a translator on channel 48 from Monument Peak for the same reason. KPIX and KBCW have plans for translators on Mt. Vaca in the North Bay area. KPIX has a construction permit for their translator which will be on channel 42 running 1.28 kW. The KBCW translator has been applied for but, according to the on-line FCC records, has not received a construction permit yet. It will be on channel 31 running .55 kW.
                • bob_lopaka
                  Not as good as the full-power (high power) TV stations
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jan 17, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment

                    << How is the coverage of KGOs translator vs the other stations at that location? IE Monument/Alison
                    >>

                    Not as good as the full-power (high power) TV stations on Monument/Allison. 

                    Translators operate at considerably reduced power but are there to fill gaps in coverage, gaps from the full-power transmitters located in San Francisco in this case.

                    Low-VHF TV Stations (ch 2, 4, & 5) lost coverage in the San Jose and Santa Rosa areas after having to move to UHF channels/frequencies because of the physics of propagation of shorter wavelengths.

                    They were authorized to operate on Low-VHF but couldn't because impulse noise would have made their Digital TV transmissions unwatchable in much of the SF Bay area.   Electrical interference caused "sparkles" on the TV screen in the good old Analog days but with Digital transmissions electrical interference would cause the blue screen of death on many TVs.

                    I'm answering more than you asked, sorry, got carried away, been awhile since I have posted.

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