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Re: Clarification on OTA audio broadcasting

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  • Otto
    I guess it depends on the program. Some evening network shows on 2-1 have sounded really good because they were mixed well. Some, not so.
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 17, 2011
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      I guess it depends on the program. Some evening network shows on 2-1 have sounded really good because they were mixed well. Some, not so.

      --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, Duke And Rat <dukenrat@...> wrote:
      >
      > Well, basically CD quality is a great idea, but again: What good is CD quality if the audio originating from the studio (like KTVU) sounds like a telephone?
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > BD
      >
      >
      >
      > On Sep 16, 2011, at 3:16 PM, Otto wrote:
      >
      > > Guess I wasn't clear. For us, OTA is just fine. When it's broadcast in discrete 5.1 it sounds great. Other times, it's just good stereo. But I didn't understand how audio was presented,the formats, why it varies from program to program, and why it can't be a higher bit rate than 384. I don't expect lossless audio but it would be nice to get closer to CD quality. Besides, somebody else asked me the question and I didn't, or couldn't, answer because I was basically clueless at at that point in time.
      > >
      > > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, Duke And Rat <dukenrat@> wrote:
      > >>
      > >> Well, it would help to know just what you're hearing that you don't like. Too loud? Distorted? Muffled? Scratchy?
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> BD
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> On Sep 15, 2011, at 6:33 PM, Otto wrote:
      > >>
      > >>> Ok. So, all of the major Bay Area networks, i.e. 11(NBC), 5(CBS), 9(PBS), 2(Fox), and 7(ABC) have the DP569 encoder because I've heard 5.1 at one time or another from all of them. If they didn't have the decoder then I wouldn't hear 5.1? However, the ultimate decision to air a program in 5.1 is set by the network in the metadata? But, even if it is aired in discrete 5.1, the audio can get munged if CALM is not done carefully? Just trying to get my head around how the audio works for OTA because sometimes it's really nice, and other times, ehh.
      > >>>
      > >>> --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, Frank Martin <ednixon@> wrote:
      > >>>>
      > >>>> The ATSC A-53 spec requires 384k Dolby AC-3, whether or not the station went out and spent the $7.5k on a Dolby DP569 encoder.
      > >>>>
      > >>>> http://www.dolby.com/professional/products/broadcast/dolby-digital/dp569.html
      > >>>>
      > >>>> These units are actually manufactured in Burlingame, across the 101 from SFO.
      > >>>>
      > >>>> NBC, CBS, PBS, Fox and ABC deliver discrete 5.1 audio to the stations so they need one of these to send you
      > >>>> 5.1 over the air. Metadata is sent from the network that tells the encoder whether to encode in mono, stereo, or full 5.1 surround, usually for primetime big budget programming.
      > >>>>
      > >>>> If the station cheaped out and didn't buy an encoder, then you only get the Dolby stereo encoder that's built into
      > >>>> the ATSC mpeg encoder.
      > >>>>
      > >>>> Then there are audio processors to help the station comply with the CALM act, like this;
      > >>>>
      > >>>> http://www.linearacoustic.com/aeroair.htm
      > >>>>
      > >>>> or this from Dolby's competitor, DTS
      > >>>>
      > >>>> http://www.dts.com/Professionals/Products/UpMixing_Downmixing_Loudness_Control/Harris/Overview.aspx
      > >>>>
      > >>>> Regardless, Dolby AC-3 is required,
      > >>>> no matter how much it gets screwed up by TV engineers who often think of audio as an afterthought.
      > >>>>
      > >>>> If there is a DP569 encoding the discreet network feed at the station, it OUGHT to sound ok.
      > >>>>
      > >>>> Or there could be a Neural Audio multi-merge processor. The one at KMIR seems like it has to be re-booted a lot to get into the correct mode, or sometimes to work at all.
      > >>>>
      > >>>> -fm-
      > >>>>
      > >>>> Sent from my mobile
      > >>>>
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>> ------------------------------------
      > >>>
      > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >>>
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      > >>>
      > >>
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------
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      >
    • Duke And Rat
      Well, tonite we watched Playboy Club on NBC/Universal/Comcast/KNTV (Hi Richard!) and noticed a really, really bad audio scene. When the person is seated, he
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 20, 2011
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        Well, tonite we watched Playboy Club on NBC/Universal/Comcast/KNTV (Hi Richard!)  and noticed a really, really bad audio scene.

        When the person is seated, he has the mike suspended over him, so everything's fine. Then he gets up and runs to a file cabinet and continues talking. Not sure where the mike is, but all the highs just disappear, and the audio sounds more like a warn out, bad audio cassette than HDTV. Then he comes back to his desk and throws a pen on it. Apparently, he hit the mike, as there was this SQUEAKY CRASH! that woke up me and my dead grandmother! Then he sits down, and the audio goes back to normal.

        If only these studios would learn to use body microphones!






        BD



        On Sep 17, 2011, at 10:12 AM, Otto wrote:

        I guess it depends on the program. Some evening network shows on 2-1 have sounded really good because they were mixed well. Some, not so.

        --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, Duke And Rat <dukenrat@...> wrote:

        Well, basically CD quality is a great idea, but again: What good is CD quality if the audio originating from the studio (like KTVU) sounds like a telephone?




        BD



        On Sep 16, 2011, at 3:16 PM, Otto wrote:

        Guess I wasn't clear. For us, OTA is just fine. When it's broadcast in discrete 5.1 it sounds great. Other times, it's just good stereo. But I didn't understand how audio was presented,the formats, why it varies from program to program, and why it can't be a higher bit rate than 384. I don't expect lossless audio but it would be nice to get closer to CD quality. Besides, somebody else asked me the question and I didn't, or couldn't, answer because I was basically clueless at at that point in time.

        --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, Duke And Rat <dukenrat@> wrote:

        Well, it would help to know just what you're hearing that you don't like. Too loud? Distorted? Muffled? Scratchy?




        BD



        On Sep 15, 2011, at 6:33 PM, Otto wrote:

        Ok. So, all of the major Bay Area networks, i.e. 11(NBC), 5(CBS), 9(PBS), 2(Fox), and 7(ABC) have the DP569 encoder because I've heard 5.1 at one time or another from all of them. If they didn't have the decoder then I wouldn't hear 5.1? However, the ultimate decision to air a program in 5.1 is set by the network in the metadata? But, even if it is aired in discrete 5.1, the audio can get munged if CALM is not done carefully? Just trying to get my head around how the audio works for OTA because sometimes it's really nice, and other times, ehh.

        --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, Frank Martin <ednixon@> wrote:

        The ATSC A-53 spec requires 384k Dolby AC-3, whether or not the station went out and spent the $7.5k on a Dolby DP569 encoder.

        http://www.dolby.com/professional/products/broadcast/dolby-digital/dp569.html

        These units are actually manufactured in Burlingame, across the 101 from SFO.

        NBC, CBS, PBS, Fox and ABC deliver discrete 5.1 audio to the stations so they need one of these to send you
        5.1 over the air. Metadata is sent from the network that tells the encoder whether to encode in mono, stereo, or full 5.1 surround, usually for primetime big budget programming.

        If the station cheaped out and didn't buy an encoder, then you only get the Dolby stereo encoder that's built into
        the ATSC mpeg encoder.

        Then there are audio processors to help the station comply with the CALM act, like this;

        http://www.linearacoustic.com/aeroair.htm

        or this from Dolby's competitor, DTS

        http://www.dts.com/Professionals/Products/UpMixing_Downmixing_Loudness_Control/Harris/Overview.aspx

        Regardless, Dolby AC-3 is required,
        no matter how much it gets screwed up by TV engineers who often think of audio as an afterthought.

        If there is a DP569 encoding the discreet network feed at the station, it OUGHT to sound ok.

        Or there could be a Neural Audio multi-merge processor. The one at KMIR seems like it has to be re-booted a lot to get into the correct mode, or sometimes to work at all.

        -fm-

        Sent from my mobile





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