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KTVU Audio/Video Sync Problem

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  • Larry
    Anyone having intermittent KTVU channel 2 audio video sync problems on HD? Have Dish Network DVR but problem also occurs using OTA antenna. Switching to non
    Message 1 of 15 , Jul 4, 2009
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      Anyone having intermittent KTVU channel 2 audio video sync problems on HD? Have Dish Network DVR but problem also occurs using OTA antenna. Switching to non HD transmission channel corrects problem.
    • bobby6048
      ... I have seen the same thing with my Dish VIP722, except that the problem went away OTA. The problem only existed on the Dish satellite feed. I have sent a
      Message 2 of 15 , Jul 4, 2009
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        --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "Larry" <lborges@...> wrote:
        >
        > Anyone having intermittent KTVU channel 2 audio video sync problems on HD? Have Dish Network DVR but problem also occurs using OTA antenna. Switching to non HD transmission channel corrects problem.
        >

        I have seen the same thing with my Dish VIP722, except that the problem went away OTA. The problem only existed on the Dish satellite feed. I have sent a letter to engineering at KTVU about it. No answer at this point.
      • Larry Katzeff
        I had the same problem. It;s ok now. Also, I am noticing intermittent audio distortions on NBC. It s been going on for the last few weeks.It s on all my TV s
        Message 3 of 15 , Jul 4, 2009
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          I had the same problem. It;s ok now.
          Also, I am noticing intermittent audio distortions on NBC. It's been going on for the last few weeks.It's on all my TV's  via OTA or Directv HD.
           
          Larry Katzeff .



          From: Larry <lborges@...>
          To: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, July 4, 2009 8:22:34 AM
          Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] KTVU Audio/Video Sync Problem

          Anyone having intermittent KTVU channel 2 audio video sync problems on HD? Have Dish Network DVR but problem also occurs using OTA antenna. Switching to non HD transmission channel corrects problem.


        • Rob Gendreau
          I’ve had the same problem with 2 on DirecTV but not on 2.1 OTA. Does this mean the problem is in the feed KTVU sends the sat companies?
          Message 4 of 15 , Jul 4, 2009
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            I’ve had the same problem with 2 on DirecTV but not on 2.1 OTA.

            Does this mean the problem is in the feed KTVU sends the sat companies?
          • Bob
            ... companies? ... DirecTV and Dish Network receive the KTVU HD signal via the over-the-air (OTA) signal. They receive the SD signal on fiber.
            Message 5 of 15 , Jul 4, 2009
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              --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, Rob Gendreau <rob.gendreau@...> wrote:

              >
              > I've had the same problem with 2 on DirecTV but not on 2.1 OTA.
              >
              > Does this mean the problem is in the feed KTVU sends the sat companies?
              >
              DirecTV and Dish Network receive the KTVU HD signal via the over-the-air (OTA) signal.

              They receive the SD signal on fiber.

            • bob.liss@sbcglobal.net
              Does this really make sense anymore? KTVU only has one signal now (i.e. a digital signal which is transmitted at a high definition resolution). Their analog
              Message 6 of 15 , Jul 5, 2009
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                Does this really make sense anymore? KTVU only has one signal now (i.e. a digital signal which is transmitted at a high definition resolution). Their analog signal used to be received by the satellite companies but that signal was turned off back on June 12th. I could be wrong but I doubt KTVU is taking their digital signal and reducing it's resolution to send to the satellite companies. Don't the satellite companies simply take the high definition digital signal and cut the 4x3 picture out of the 16x9 signal and then lower it's resolution to send to their non HD receivers? The digital signal I'm referring to is, if I'm not mistaken, received by the satellite companies via OTA. Perhaps the signal will be sent via fiber at some point in the future but for the moment I don't think any signal is being sent via fiber. Please feel to correct me here if I'm wrong.



                --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <Lopakabob@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, Rob Gendreau <rob.gendreau@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > I've had the same problem with 2 on DirecTV but not on 2.1 OTA.
                > >
                > > Does this mean the problem is in the feed KTVU sends the sat
                > companies?
                > >
                > DirecTV and Dish Network receive the KTVU HD signal via the over-the-air
                > (OTA) signal.
                >
                > They receive the SD signal on fiber.
                >
              • Don Hackler
                The main reason to feed the sat (and cable) companies video over fiber is so that they have a signal if the transmitter is off the air. It also gives the TV
                Message 7 of 15 , Jul 5, 2009
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                  The main reason to feed the sat (and cable) companies video over fiber is so that they have a signal if the transmitter is off the air.  It also gives the TV station control on how the SD signal is cropped or letterboxed.

                  The HD and SD feeds to the sat companies are usually separate.  The HD signals are muxed into different feeds on different birds than the SD.
                  Where the cable and sat companies are still using over the air signals, they converted to receiving the digital transmitters a last year, if not earlier.  



                  On Jul 5, 2009, at 12:24 AM, bob.liss@... wrote:

                  Does this really make sense anymore? KTVU only has one signal now (i.e. a digital signal which is transmitted at a high definition resolution). Their analog signal used to be received by the satellite companies but that signal was turned off back on June 12th. I could be wrong but I doubt KTVU is taking their digital signal and reducing it's resolution to send to the satellite companies. Don't the satellite companies simply take the high definition digital signal and cut the 4x3 picture out of the 16x9 signal and then lower it's resolution to send to their non HD receivers? The digital signal I'm referring to is, if I'm not mistaken, received by the satellite companies via OTA. Perhaps the signal will be sent via fiber at some point in the future but for the moment I don't think any signal is being sent via fiber. Please feel to correct me here if I'm wrong.



                  --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <Lopakabob@...> wrote:


                  --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, Rob Gendreau <rob.gendreau@>
                  wrote:

                  I've had the same problem with 2 on DirecTV but not on 2.1 OTA.

                  Does this mean the problem is in the feed KTVU sends the sat
                  companies?

                  DirecTV and Dish Network receive the KTVU HD signal via the over-the-air
                  (OTA) signal.

                  They receive the SD signal on fiber.



                • bobby6048
                  I think what they should do then is to reverse the signals. Send the HD feed over the fiber and the SD feed OTA.
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jul 5, 2009
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                    I think what they should do then is to reverse the signals. Send the HD feed over the fiber and the SD feed OTA.

                    --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, Don Hackler <donh@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > The main reason to feed the sat (and cable) companies video over fiber
                    > is so that they have a signal if the transmitter is off the air. It
                    > also gives the TV station control on how the SD signal is cropped or
                    > letterboxed.
                    >
                    > The HD and SD feeds to the sat companies are usually separate. The HD
                    > signals are muxed into different feeds on different birds than the SD.
                    > Where the cable and sat companies are still using over the air
                    > signals, they converted to receiving the digital transmitters a last
                    > year, if not earlier.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • bob.liss@sbcglobal.net
                    I understand the general benefits of sending the signal over fiber but thanks for the additional detail. My point, however, is that it seems unlikely to me
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jul 5, 2009
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                      I understand the general benefits of sending the signal over fiber but thanks for the additional detail. My point, however, is that it seems unlikely to me that stations are currently sending two signals to the satellite companies when they only have one signal on the air. It's possible but seems unlikely to me. I'm assuming here that the satellite companies are picking up the digital signal OTA and doing whatever they need to do to it to be able to also provide a 4x3 SD signal for some of their customers. Hopefully they will be picking up the digital signal via fiber at some point in the future.

                      Does anyone really know if broadcast stations are sending one or two signals to the satellite companies? Are some sending one and some sending two?


                      --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, Don Hackler <donh@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > The main reason to feed the sat (and cable) companies video over fiber
                      > is so that they have a signal if the transmitter is off the air. It
                      > also gives the TV station control on how the SD signal is cropped or
                      > letterboxed.
                      >
                      > The HD and SD feeds to the sat companies are usually separate. The HD
                      > signals are muxed into different feeds on different birds than the SD.
                      > Where the cable and sat companies are still using over the air
                      > signals, they converted to receiving the digital transmitters a last
                      > year, if not earlier.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > On Jul 5, 2009, at 12:24 AM, bob.liss@... wrote:
                      >
                      > > Does this really make sense anymore? KTVU only has one signal now
                      > > (i.e. a digital signal which is transmitted at a high definition
                      > > resolution). Their analog signal used to be received by the
                      > > satellite companies but that signal was turned off back on June
                      > > 12th. I could be wrong but I doubt KTVU is taking their digital
                      > > signal and reducing it's resolution to send to the satellite
                      > > companies. Don't the satellite companies simply take the high
                      > > definition digital signal and cut the 4x3 picture out of the 16x9
                      > > signal and then lower it's resolution to send to their non HD
                      > > receivers? The digital signal I'm referring to is, if I'm not
                      > > mistaken, received by the satellite companies via OTA. Perhaps the
                      > > signal will be sent via fiber at some point in the future but for
                      > > the moment I don't think any signal is being sent via fiber. Please
                      > > feel to correct me here if I'm wrong.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <Lopakabob@> wrote:
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >> --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, Rob Gendreau <rob.gendreau@>
                      > >> wrote:
                      > >>>
                      > >>> I've had the same problem with 2 on DirecTV but not on 2.1 OTA.
                      > >>>
                      > >>> Does this mean the problem is in the feed KTVU sends the sat
                      > >> companies?
                      > >>>
                      > >> DirecTV and Dish Network receive the KTVU HD signal via the over-
                      > >> the-air
                      > >> (OTA) signal.
                      > >>
                      > >> They receive the SD signal on fiber.
                      > >>
                      > >
                      >
                    • Don Hackler
                      Yes, I really know that some stations are sending separate SD (or more likely, analog) video to the sat and cable companies over fiber. Many of these feeds
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jul 5, 2009
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                        Yes, I really know that some stations are sending separate SD (or more
                        likely, analog) video to the sat and cable companies over fiber. Many
                        of these feeds have been in place for years, even from before the
                        digital transmitters were installed. The HD signals are usually
                        picked up over the air by the sat companies.

                        Analog signals are relatively cheap to send over fiber, SD/HD signals
                        are more expensive to transport. The fiber circuits cost more to
                        rent, and it takes more expensive equipment at each end of the fiber
                        to deal with HD. Some stations use microwave radios to transport
                        video to the sat and cable companies.

                        Some of the stations even provide separate HD, SD, and analog signals
                        to the Comcast headend at Sutro

                        It's all about getting reliable and redundant signals to the sat and
                        cable providers, particularly in the SF Bay area, where roughly 85% of
                        the audience is watching on cable or satellite instead of OTA.


                        On Jul 5, 2009, at 9:56 AM, bob.liss@... wrote:

                        > I understand the general benefits of sending the signal over fiber
                        > but thanks for the additional detail. My point, however, is that it
                        > seems unlikely to me that stations are currently sending two signals
                        > to the satellite companies when they only have one signal on the
                        > air. It's possible but seems unlikely to me. I'm assuming here that
                        > the satellite companies are picking up the digital signal OTA and
                        > doing whatever they need to do to it to be able to also provide a
                        > 4x3 SD signal for some of their customers. Hopefully they will be
                        > picking up the digital signal via fiber at some point in the future.
                        >
                        > Does anyone really know if broadcast stations are sending one or two
                        > signals to the satellite companies? Are some sending one and some
                        > sending two?
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, Don Hackler <donh@...> wrote:
                        >>
                        >> The main reason to feed the sat (and cable) companies video over
                        >> fiber
                        >> is so that they have a signal if the transmitter is off the air. It
                        >> also gives the TV station control on how the SD signal is cropped or
                        >> letterboxed.
                        >>
                        >> The HD and SD feeds to the sat companies are usually separate. The
                        >> HD
                        >> signals are muxed into different feeds on different birds than the
                        >> SD.
                        >> Where the cable and sat companies are still using over the air
                        >> signals, they converted to receiving the digital transmitters a last
                        >> year, if not earlier.
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> On Jul 5, 2009, at 12:24 AM, bob.liss@... wrote:
                        >>
                        >>> Does this really make sense anymore? KTVU only has one signal now
                        >>> (i.e. a digital signal which is transmitted at a high definition
                        >>> resolution). Their analog signal used to be received by the
                        >>> satellite companies but that signal was turned off back on June
                        >>> 12th. I could be wrong but I doubt KTVU is taking their digital
                        >>> signal and reducing it's resolution to send to the satellite
                        >>> companies. Don't the satellite companies simply take the high
                        >>> definition digital signal and cut the 4x3 picture out of the 16x9
                        >>> signal and then lower it's resolution to send to their non HD
                        >>> receivers? The digital signal I'm referring to is, if I'm not
                        >>> mistaken, received by the satellite companies via OTA. Perhaps the
                        >>> signal will be sent via fiber at some point in the future but for
                        >>> the moment I don't think any signal is being sent via fiber. Please
                        >>> feel to correct me here if I'm wrong.
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>> --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <Lopakabob@> wrote:
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>> --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, Rob Gendreau <rob.gendreau@>
                        >>>> wrote:
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>> I've had the same problem with 2 on DirecTV but not on 2.1 OTA.
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>> Does this mean the problem is in the feed KTVU sends the sat
                        >>>> companies?
                        >>>>>
                        >>>> DirecTV and Dish Network receive the KTVU HD signal via the over-
                        >>>> the-air
                        >>>> (OTA) signal.
                        >>>>
                        >>>> They receive the SD signal on fiber.
                        >>>>
                        >>>
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Bob
                        Some stations have kept a portion of their Analog infrastructure in place in order to continue sending SD signals to Cable and Satellite providers. The Cable
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jul 5, 2009
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                          Some stations have kept a portion of their Analog infrastructure in place in order to continue sending SD signals to Cable and Satellite providers.  The Cable and Satellite providers prefer this because they don't have to add equipment to downconvert the HD signal.  Someday the Analog infrastructure will disappear entirely at TV studios but it has not happened yet for many. 

                          There are still separate SD and HD feeds to Comcast and to other cable providers from many stations.  DirecTV and Dish Network receive HD via OTA and SD via fiber from some stations, including KTVU, as I wrote below.

                          LopakaBob

                          --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "bob.liss@..." <bob.liss@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I understand the general benefits of sending the signal over fiber but thanks for the additional detail. My point, however, is that it seems unlikely to me that stations are currently sending two signals to the satellite companies when they only have one signal on the air. It's possible but seems unlikely to me. I'm assuming here that the satellite companies are picking up the digital signal OTA and doing whatever they need to do to it to be able to also provide a 4x3 SD signal for some of their customers. Hopefully they will be picking up the digital signal via fiber at some point in the future.
                          >
                          > Does anyone really know if broadcast stations are sending one or two signals to the satellite companies? Are some sending one and some sending two?
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, Don Hackler donh@ wrote:
                          > >
                          > > The main reason to feed the sat (and cable) companies video over fiber
                          > > is so that they have a signal if the transmitter is off the air. It
                          > > also gives the TV station control on how the SD signal is cropped or
                          > > letterboxed.
                          > >
                          > > The HD and SD feeds to the sat companies are usually separate. The HD
                          > > signals are muxed into different feeds on different birds than the SD.
                          > > Where the cable and sat companies are still using over the air
                          > > signals, they converted to receiving the digital transmitters a last
                          > > year, if not earlier.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > On Jul 5, 2009, at 12:24 AM, bob.liss@ wrote:
                          > >
                          > > > Does this really make sense anymore? KTVU only has one signal now
                          > > > (i.e. a digital signal which is transmitted at a high definition
                          > > > resolution). Their analog signal used to be received by the
                          > > > satellite companies but that signal was turned off back on June
                          > > > 12th. I could be wrong but I doubt KTVU is taking their digital
                          > > > signal and reducing it's resolution to send to the satellite
                          > > > companies. Don't the satellite companies simply take the high
                          > > > definition digital signal and cut the 4x3 picture out of the 16x9
                          > > > signal and then lower it's resolution to send to their non HD
                          > > > receivers? The digital signal I'm referring to is, if I'm not
                          > > > mistaken, received by the satellite companies via OTA. Perhaps the
                          > > > signal will be sent via fiber at some point in the future but for
                          > > > the moment I don't think any signal is being sent via fiber. Please
                          > > > feel to correct me here if I'm wrong.
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <Lopakabob@> wrote:
                          > > >>
                          > > >>
                          > > >> --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, Rob Gendreau <rob.gendreau@>
                          > > >> wrote:
                          > > >>>
                          > > >>> I've had the same problem with 2 on DirecTV but not on 2.1 OTA.
                          > > >>>
                          > > >>> Does this mean the problem is in the feed KTVU sends the sat
                          > > >> companies?
                          > > >>>
                          > > >> DirecTV and Dish Network receive the KTVU HD signal via the over-
                          > > >> the-air
                          > > >> (OTA) signal.
                          > > >>
                          > > >> They receive the SD signal on fiber.
                          > > >>
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >

                        • Bob
                          ... HD feed over the fiber and the SD feed OTA. ... After June 12 when Analog went dark the SD feed was no longer available OTA. Broadcasters aren t going to
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jul 5, 2009
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                            --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "bobby6048" <bobcapl@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I think what they should do then is to reverse the signals. Send the HD feed over the fiber and the SD feed OTA.
                            >
                            After June 12 when Analog went dark the SD feed was no longer available OTA.  Broadcasters aren't going to use valuable bandwidth to transmit a simulcast of the HD signal in SD on a subchannel.
                          • bob.liss@sbcglobal.net
                            Thanks for the corrected information. Kinda seems like a waste to provide two signals but it sounds like the cable and satellite companies like it that way. I
                            Message 13 of 15 , Jul 5, 2009
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                              Thanks for the corrected information. Kinda seems like a waste to provide two signals but it sounds like the cable and satellite companies like it that way. I suppose it makes it easier for them when they still need to provide both an HD and an SD signal for some stations. I would assume this arrangement will eventually be discontinued but that is probably a long ways off.


                              --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <Lopakabob@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > Some stations have kept a portion of their Analog infrastructure in
                              > place in order to continue sending SD signals to Cable and Satellite
                              > providers. The Cable and Satellite providers prefer this because they
                              > don't have to add equipment to downconvert the HD signal. Someday the
                              > Analog infrastructure will disappear entirely at TV studios but it has
                              > not happened yet for many.
                              >
                              > There are still separate SD and HD feeds to Comcast and to other cable
                              > providers from many stations. DirecTV and Dish Network receive HD via
                              > OTA and SD via fiber from some stations, including KTVU, as I wrote
                              > below.
                              >
                              > LopakaBob
                              >
                              > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "bob.liss@" <bob.liss@>
                              > wrote:
                              > >
                              > > I understand the general benefits of sending the signal over fiber but
                              > thanks for the additional detail. My point, however, is that it seems
                              > unlikely to me that stations are currently sending two signals to the
                              > satellite companies when they only have one signal on the air. It's
                              > possible but seems unlikely to me. I'm assuming here that the satellite
                              > companies are picking up the digital signal OTA and doing whatever they
                              > need to do to it to be able to also provide a 4x3 SD signal for some of
                              > their customers. Hopefully they will be picking up the digital signal
                              > via fiber at some point in the future.
                              > >
                              > > Does anyone really know if broadcast stations are sending one or two
                              > signals to the satellite companies? Are some sending one and some
                              > sending two?
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, Don Hackler donh@ wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > The main reason to feed the sat (and cable) companies video over
                              > fiber
                              > > > is so that they have a signal if the transmitter is off the air. It
                              > > > also gives the TV station control on how the SD signal is cropped or
                              > > > letterboxed.
                              > > >
                              > > > The HD and SD feeds to the sat companies are usually separate. The
                              > HD
                              > > > signals are muxed into different feeds on different birds than the
                              > SD.
                              > > > Where the cable and sat companies are still using over the air
                              > > > signals, they converted to receiving the digital transmitters a last
                              > > > year, if not earlier.
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > On Jul 5, 2009, at 12:24 AM, bob.liss@ wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > > Does this really make sense anymore? KTVU only has one signal now
                              > > > > (i.e. a digital signal which is transmitted at a high definition
                              > > > > resolution). Their analog signal used to be received by the
                              > > > > satellite companies but that signal was turned off back on June
                              > > > > 12th. I could be wrong but I doubt KTVU is taking their digital
                              > > > > signal and reducing it's resolution to send to the satellite
                              > > > > companies. Don't the satellite companies simply take the high
                              > > > > definition digital signal and cut the 4x3 picture out of the 16x9
                              > > > > signal and then lower it's resolution to send to their non HD
                              > > > > receivers? The digital signal I'm referring to is, if I'm not
                              > > > > mistaken, received by the satellite companies via OTA. Perhaps the
                              > > > > signal will be sent via fiber at some point in the future but for
                              > > > > the moment I don't think any signal is being sent via fiber.
                              > Please
                              > > > > feel to correct me here if I'm wrong.
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <Lopakabob@> wrote:
                              > > > >>
                              > > > >>
                              > > > >> --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, Rob Gendreau
                              > <rob.gendreau@>
                              > > > >> wrote:
                              > > > >>>
                              > > > >>> I've had the same problem with 2 on DirecTV but not on 2.1 OTA.
                              > > > >>>
                              > > > >>> Does this mean the problem is in the feed KTVU sends the sat
                              > > > >> companies?
                              > > > >>>
                              > > > >> DirecTV and Dish Network receive the KTVU HD signal via the over-
                              > > > >> the-air
                              > > > >> (OTA) signal.
                              > > > >>
                              > > > >> They receive the SD signal on fiber.
                              > > > >>
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • Larry
                              All fine and well, however does it mean that KTVU will always have an audio/video sync problem when watched with Dish DVR??
                              Message 14 of 15 , Jul 6, 2009
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                                All fine and well, however does it mean that KTVU will always have an audio/video sync problem when watched with Dish DVR??

                                --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "bob.liss@..." <bob.liss@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Thanks for the corrected information. Kinda seems like a waste to provide two signals but it sounds like the cable and satellite companies like it that way. I suppose it makes it easier for them when they still need to provide both an HD and an SD signal for some stations. I would assume this arrangement will eventually be discontinued but that is probably a long ways off.
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <Lopakabob@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Some stations have kept a portion of their Analog infrastructure in
                                > > place in order to continue sending SD signals to Cable and Satellite
                                > > providers. The Cable and Satellite providers prefer this because they
                                > > don't have to add equipment to downconvert the HD signal. Someday the
                                > > Analog infrastructure will disappear entirely at TV studios but it has
                                > > not happened yet for many.
                                > >
                                > > There are still separate SD and HD feeds to Comcast and to other cable
                                > > providers from many stations. DirecTV and Dish Network receive HD via
                                > > OTA and SD via fiber from some stations, including KTVU, as I wrote
                                > > below.
                                > >
                                > > LopakaBob
                                > >
                                > > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "bob.liss@" <bob.liss@>
                                > > wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > I understand the general benefits of sending the signal over fiber but
                                > > thanks for the additional detail. My point, however, is that it seems
                                > > unlikely to me that stations are currently sending two signals to the
                                > > satellite companies when they only have one signal on the air. It's
                                > > possible but seems unlikely to me. I'm assuming here that the satellite
                                > > companies are picking up the digital signal OTA and doing whatever they
                                > > need to do to it to be able to also provide a 4x3 SD signal for some of
                                > > their customers. Hopefully they will be picking up the digital signal
                                > > via fiber at some point in the future.
                                > > >
                                > > > Does anyone really know if broadcast stations are sending one or two
                                > > signals to the satellite companies? Are some sending one and some
                                > > sending two?
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, Don Hackler donh@ wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > The main reason to feed the sat (and cable) companies video over
                                > > fiber
                                > > > > is so that they have a signal if the transmitter is off the air. It
                                > > > > also gives the TV station control on how the SD signal is cropped or
                                > > > > letterboxed.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > The HD and SD feeds to the sat companies are usually separate. The
                                > > HD
                                > > > > signals are muxed into different feeds on different birds than the
                                > > SD.
                                > > > > Where the cable and sat companies are still using over the air
                                > > > > signals, they converted to receiving the digital transmitters a last
                                > > > > year, if not earlier.
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > On Jul 5, 2009, at 12:24 AM, bob.liss@ wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > > Does this really make sense anymore? KTVU only has one signal now
                                > > > > > (i.e. a digital signal which is transmitted at a high definition
                                > > > > > resolution). Their analog signal used to be received by the
                                > > > > > satellite companies but that signal was turned off back on June
                                > > > > > 12th. I could be wrong but I doubt KTVU is taking their digital
                                > > > > > signal and reducing it's resolution to send to the satellite
                                > > > > > companies. Don't the satellite companies simply take the high
                                > > > > > definition digital signal and cut the 4x3 picture out of the 16x9
                                > > > > > signal and then lower it's resolution to send to their non HD
                                > > > > > receivers? The digital signal I'm referring to is, if I'm not
                                > > > > > mistaken, received by the satellite companies via OTA. Perhaps the
                                > > > > > signal will be sent via fiber at some point in the future but for
                                > > > > > the moment I don't think any signal is being sent via fiber.
                                > > Please
                                > > > > > feel to correct me here if I'm wrong.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <Lopakabob@> wrote:
                                > > > > >>
                                > > > > >>
                                > > > > >> --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, Rob Gendreau
                                > > <rob.gendreau@>
                                > > > > >> wrote:
                                > > > > >>>
                                > > > > >>> I've had the same problem with 2 on DirecTV but not on 2.1 OTA.
                                > > > > >>>
                                > > > > >>> Does this mean the problem is in the feed KTVU sends the sat
                                > > > > >> companies?
                                > > > > >>>
                                > > > > >> DirecTV and Dish Network receive the KTVU HD signal via the over-
                                > > > > >> the-air
                                > > > > >> (OTA) signal.
                                > > > > >>
                                > > > > >> They receive the SD signal on fiber.
                                > > > > >>
                                > > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • bobby6048
                                You need to let Dish know about this. That s what I did. You can send an email to dishquality@ echostar. com. Take the spaces out of that email address to
                                Message 15 of 15 , Jul 6, 2009
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  You need to let Dish know about this. That's what I did. You can send an email to dishquality@ echostar. com. Take the spaces out of that email address to send.

                                  --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "Larry" <lborges@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > All fine and well, however does it mean that KTVU will always have an audio/video sync problem when watched with Dish DVR??
                                  >
                                  > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "bob.liss@" <bob.liss@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Thanks for the corrected information. Kinda seems like a waste to provide two signals but it sounds like the cable and satellite companies like it that way. I suppose it makes it easier for them when they still need to provide both an HD and an SD signal for some stations. I would assume this arrangement will eventually be discontinued but that is probably a long ways off.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <Lopakabob@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Some stations have kept a portion of their Analog infrastructure in
                                  > > > place in order to continue sending SD signals to Cable and Satellite
                                  > > > providers. The Cable and Satellite providers prefer this because they
                                  > > > don't have to add equipment to downconvert the HD signal. Someday the
                                  > > > Analog infrastructure will disappear entirely at TV studios but it has
                                  > > > not happened yet for many.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > There are still separate SD and HD feeds to Comcast and to other cable
                                  > > > providers from many stations. DirecTV and Dish Network receive HD via
                                  > > > OTA and SD via fiber from some stations, including KTVU, as I wrote
                                  > > > below.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > LopakaBob
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "bob.liss@" <bob.liss@>
                                  > > > wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > I understand the general benefits of sending the signal over fiber but
                                  > > > thanks for the additional detail. My point, however, is that it seems
                                  > > > unlikely to me that stations are currently sending two signals to the
                                  > > > satellite companies when they only have one signal on the air. It's
                                  > > > possible but seems unlikely to me. I'm assuming here that the satellite
                                  > > > companies are picking up the digital signal OTA and doing whatever they
                                  > > > need to do to it to be able to also provide a 4x3 SD signal for some of
                                  > > > their customers. Hopefully they will be picking up the digital signal
                                  > > > via fiber at some point in the future.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Does anyone really know if broadcast stations are sending one or two
                                  > > > signals to the satellite companies? Are some sending one and some
                                  > > > sending two?
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, Don Hackler donh@ wrote:
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > The main reason to feed the sat (and cable) companies video over
                                  > > > fiber
                                  > > > > > is so that they have a signal if the transmitter is off the air. It
                                  > > > > > also gives the TV station control on how the SD signal is cropped or
                                  > > > > > letterboxed.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > The HD and SD feeds to the sat companies are usually separate. The
                                  > > > HD
                                  > > > > > signals are muxed into different feeds on different birds than the
                                  > > > SD.
                                  > > > > > Where the cable and sat companies are still using over the air
                                  > > > > > signals, they converted to receiving the digital transmitters a last
                                  > > > > > year, if not earlier.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > On Jul 5, 2009, at 12:24 AM, bob.liss@ wrote:
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > Does this really make sense anymore? KTVU only has one signal now
                                  > > > > > > (i.e. a digital signal which is transmitted at a high definition
                                  > > > > > > resolution). Their analog signal used to be received by the
                                  > > > > > > satellite companies but that signal was turned off back on June
                                  > > > > > > 12th. I could be wrong but I doubt KTVU is taking their digital
                                  > > > > > > signal and reducing it's resolution to send to the satellite
                                  > > > > > > companies. Don't the satellite companies simply take the high
                                  > > > > > > definition digital signal and cut the 4x3 picture out of the 16x9
                                  > > > > > > signal and then lower it's resolution to send to their non HD
                                  > > > > > > receivers? The digital signal I'm referring to is, if I'm not
                                  > > > > > > mistaken, received by the satellite companies via OTA. Perhaps the
                                  > > > > > > signal will be sent via fiber at some point in the future but for
                                  > > > > > > the moment I don't think any signal is being sent via fiber.
                                  > > > Please
                                  > > > > > > feel to correct me here if I'm wrong.
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <Lopakabob@> wrote:
                                  > > > > > >>
                                  > > > > > >>
                                  > > > > > >> --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, Rob Gendreau
                                  > > > <rob.gendreau@>
                                  > > > > > >> wrote:
                                  > > > > > >>>
                                  > > > > > >>> I've had the same problem with 2 on DirecTV but not on 2.1 OTA.
                                  > > > > > >>>
                                  > > > > > >>> Does this mean the problem is in the feed KTVU sends the sat
                                  > > > > > >> companies?
                                  > > > > > >>>
                                  > > > > > >> DirecTV and Dish Network receive the KTVU HD signal via the over-
                                  > > > > > >> the-air
                                  > > > > > >> (OTA) signal.
                                  > > > > > >>
                                  > > > > > >> They receive the SD signal on fiber.
                                  > > > > > >>
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
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