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RE: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: NBC Aspect ratio?? Richard? KSBW

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  • bill weber
    Explain please.....Only Kteh....KQED AND KKPX are over broadcasting mpeg2 streams on their channels in the San Jose bay area.. To:
    Message 1 of 18 , Nov 1, 2008
      Explain please.....Only Kteh....KQED AND KKPX  are over broadcasting mpeg2 streams on their channels in the San Jose bay area..




      To: HDTV-in-SF1111111111bay@yahoogroups.com
      From: Lopakabob@...
      Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 04:22:08 +0000
      Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: NBC Aspect ratio?? Richard? KSBW

      --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "kb1we6r" <capyo670@...> wrote:
      >
      > Richard; [snip] This sucks.  What is NBC's intention?
      This is a prime example of why there are a few people on this Website who work for local TV stations that choose to be under the radar.


      When your life is on the go—take your life with you. Try Windows Mobile® today
    • bill weber
      Could we say these statistical muxes are dreaming about spreading a bandwith. These machines are not fast enough for real time in the last 4 years., the end
      Message 2 of 18 , Nov 1, 2008
        Could we say these statistical muxes are dreaming about spreading a bandwith. These machines are not fast enough for real time in the last 4 years.,
        the end user only gets jagged lines and slow smeared video...and at worst....blocks






        To: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com
        From: rswank@...
        Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 14:44:05 -0800
        Subject: RE: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: NBC Aspect ratio?? Richard? KSBW


        I have no idea what KSBW is doing.  I’m not surprised that the Salinas-Monterey market local HDs are not offered by Dish at this time.  At least with your equipment you should not be allowed to tune to any Dish Network HD channel.  If you are paying for HD channels and don’t have any HD receivers it is wrong.  If you are not paying for HD then those HD channels shouldn’t be available to you to tune to.

         

        At the present time NBC and I imagine the others produce HD programming with SD format in mind.  SD programming is therefore a 4x3 center cut of the 16x9 in 480i verses the 1080i of HD and no extremely important picture info is lost and the viewer receives a full screen.  Theatrical movies and live sports or news however do have picture info happen outside the center cut but the jest is not lost for the most part. 

         

        In Feb of 2009 this will change however as the viewer will only receive the digital transmissions of the local broadcaster.  This could in fact be a 1080i 16x9 transmission of a SD or HD program or it could be a 480i sub channel which would be 4x3.  In smaller markets it could start out as an ATSC stream with only a 480i 4x3 primary channel no HD at all.  The converter boxes that are for analog television users have options for the 4x3 display so that they can choose how they want to see 16x9 offerings, such as do nothing, crop or center cut etc.  Analog viewers will for the most part see full screen presentations of 16x9 HD programs in 480i unless they choose to watch it in window box mode.

         

        Filling the screen when you use a satellite delivery medium or even off-air is more difficult for HD viewers as at the present time there are more 4x3 offering than 16x9.  If a signal is sent in 1080i 16x9 format and it is a 4x3 upconverted 480i program there are side panels.  Since most receivers do not allow you to format change a 1080i picture that is how it is.

         

        My suggestion to you is to get a Dish HD receiver and buy the HD programming.  Use the analog output and use the receivers display options.

         

        Please send further questions to me off-aline as this isn’t a prime function of the users group.


        From: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com [mailto:HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kb1we6r
        Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 7:04 AM
        To: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: NBC Aspect ratio?? Richard? KSBW

         

        So on a HD show, does your formatted 4x3 picture retain the whole
        16x9 show picture and add bars at the top and bottom?? (so folks like
        me can zoom our aspect ratio to properly fill the screen) Or do you
        cut off some of the picture like I see on KSBW over Dishnetwork? That
        would give me some idea as to what KSBW may be doing (if anything).

        My Dishnetwork equipment is only SD.

        Dishnetwork does not offer KSBW HD yet, so maybe they are just taking
        the analog OTA pic, I will have to do a side by side comparison. But
        they DO offer Discovery ch HD, and they DO letterbox the shows that
        are in HD (on my SD receiver), then I zoom it out to fill the screen
        (it's not HD, but looks much better filled out).

        If Dishnetwork does not get a formatted SD signal from KSBW, I wonder
        what they will do in Feb?
        Keith

        --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@ yahoogroups. com, "Swank, Richard (NBC Universal,
        KNTV)" <Richard.Swank@ ...> wrote:

        >
        > Most HDTV receivers allow you to modify how you display the SD
        pictures.
        > Some do not allow you to modify a received HD picture aspect ratio.
        > Does the DH Dish network receiver you use allow you to change it's
        > output display format.
        >
        > KNTV uses a rather expensive format conversion box for doing this
        and we
        > feed Dish network our 4x3 picture for KNTV-SD and the 16x9 HD
        signal for
        > KNTV-HD.
        >
        > My question to you is don't you also receive the KSBW analog signal
        on
        > Dish Networks? Is it screwed up aspect wise as well? If not then
        that
        > would probably be the way to record using the current TIVO you are
        > using. The Discovery channel you quoted as being OK. I imagine
        that
        > Dish has both DiscoveryHD and DiscoverySD signals on their system
        much
        > like DirecTV has. If so is it the DiscoverySD that you can modify?
        >
        > The Satellite companies usually have both on their systems as there
        are
        > a number of subscribers that do not take the HD feeds and the SD
        > versions need to be there for those folks.



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      • Richard Swank
        I beg to differ with you. I give you your opinion but then everyone has one of those. _____ From: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com
        Message 3 of 18 , Nov 2, 2008

          I beg to differ with you.  I give you your opinion but then everyone has one of those.


          From: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com [mailto: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of bill weber
          Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 1:07 AM
          To: hdtv-in-sfbay@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: NBC Aspect ratio?? Richard? KSBW

           

          Could we say these statistical muxes are dreaming about spreading a bandwith. These machines are not fast enough for real time in the last 4 years.,
          the end user only gets jagged lines and slow smeared video...and at worst....blocks





          To: HDTV-in-SFbay@ yahoogroups. com
          From: rswank@razzolink. com
          Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 14:44:05 -0800
          Subject: RE: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: NBC Aspect ratio?? Richard? KSBW

          I have no idea what KSBW is doing.  I’m not surprised that the Salinas-Monterey market local HDs are not offered by Dish at this time.  At least with your equipment you should not be allowed to tune to any Dish Network HD channel.  If you are paying for HD channels and don’t have any HD receivers it is wrong.  If you are not paying for HD then those HD channels shouldn’t be available to you to tune to.

           

          At the present time NBC and I imagine the others produce HD programming with SD format in mind.  SD programming is therefore a 4x3 center cut of the 16x9 in 480i verses the 1080i of HD and no extremely important picture info is lost and the viewer receives a full screen.  Theatrical movies and live sports or news however do have picture info happen outside the center cut but the jest is not lost for the most part. 

           

          In Feb of 2009 this will change however as the viewer will only receive the digital transmissions of the local broadcaster.  This could in fact be a 1080i 16x9 transmission of a SD or HD program or it could be a 480i sub channel which would be 4x3.  In smaller markets it could start out as an ATSC stream with only a 480i 4x3 primary channel no HD at all.  The converter boxes that are for analog television users have options for the 4x3 display so that they can choose how they want to see 16x9 offerings, such as do nothing, crop or center cut etc.  Analog viewers will for the most part see full screen presentations of 16x9 HD programs in 480i unless they choose to watch it in window box mode.

           

          Filling the screen when you use a satellite delivery medium or even off-air is more difficult for HD viewers as at the present time there are more 4x3 offering than 16x9.  If a signal is sent in 1080i 16x9 format and it is a 4x3 upconverted 480i program there are side panels.  Since most receivers do not allow you to format change a 1080i picture that is how it is.

           

          My suggestion to you is to get a Dish HD receiver and buy the HD programming.  Use the analog output and use the receivers display options.

           

          Please send further questions to me off-aline as this isn’t a prime function of the users group.


          From: HDTV-in-SFbay@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: HDTV- in-SFbay@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of kb1we6r
          Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 7:04 AM
          To: HDTV-in-SFbay@ yahoogroups. com
          Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: NBC Aspect ratio?? Richard? KSBW

           

          So on a HD show, does your formatted 4x3 picture retain the whole
          16x9 show picture and add bars at the top and bottom?? (so folks like
          me can zoom our aspect ratio to properly fill the screen) Or do you
          cut off some of the picture like I see on KSBW over Dishnetwork? That
          would give me some idea as to what KSBW may be doing (if anything).

          My Dishnetwork equipment is only SD.

          Dishnetwork does not offer KSBW HD yet, so maybe they are just taking
          the analog OTA pic, I will have to do a side by side comparison. But
          they DO offer Discovery ch HD, and they DO letterbox the shows that
          are in HD (on my SD receiver), then I zoom it out to fill the screen
          (it's not HD, but looks much better filled out).

          If Dishnetwork does not get a formatted SD signal from KSBW, I wonder
          what they will do in Feb?
          Keith

          --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@ yahoogroups. com, "Swank, Richard (NBC Universal,
          KNTV)" <Richard.Swank@ ...> wrote:

          >
          > Most HDTV receivers allow you to modify how you display the SD
          pictures.
          > Some do not allow you to modify a received HD picture aspect ratio.
          > Does the DH Dish network receiver you use allow you to change it's
          > output display format.
          >
          > KNTV uses a rather expensive format conversion box for doing this
          and we
          > feed Dish network our 4x3 picture for KNTV-SD and the 16x9 HD
          signal for
          > KNTV-HD.
          >
          > My question to you is don't you also receive the KSBW analog signal
          on
          > Dish Networks? Is it screwed up aspect wise as well? If not then
          that
          > would probably be the way to record using the current TIVO you are
          > using. The Discovery channel you quoted as being OK. I imagine
          that
          > Dish has both DiscoveryHD and DiscoverySD signals on their system
          much
          > like DirecTV has. If so is it the DiscoverySD that you can modify?
          >
          > The Satellite companies usually have both on their systems as there
          are
          > a number of subscribers that do not take the HD feeds and the SD
          > versions need to be there for those folks.

           


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        • Richard Swank
          Again I disagree with you. There are probably 16 or 17 ATSC compliant MpegII streams easily receivable in San Jose with an antenna. _____ From:
          Message 4 of 18 , Nov 2, 2008

            Again I disagree with you.  There are probably 16 or 17 ATSC compliant MpegII streams easily receivable in San Jose with an antenna.


            From: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com [mailto: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of bill weber
            Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 12:55 AM
            To: hdtv-in-sfbay@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: NBC Aspect ratio?? Richard? KSBW

             

            Explain please.....Only Kteh....KQED AND KKPX  are over broadcasting mpeg2 streams on their channels in the San Jose bay area..



            To: HDTV-in-SF111111111 1bay@yahoogroups .com
            From: Lopakabob@aol. com
            Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 04:22:08 +0000
            Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: NBC Aspect ratio?? Richard? KSBW

            --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@ yahoogroups. com , "kb1we6r" <capyo670@...> wrote:

            >
            > Richard; [snip] This sucks.  What is NBC's intention?
            This is a prime example of why there are a few people on this Website who work for local TV stations that choose to be under the radar.


            When your life is on the go—take your life with you. Try Windows Mobile® today

          • epicurusradium
            ... Hmm, how many of those are in/with English language programming? I would guess that of the approximately 50% non English all the time ota broadcasts, most
            Message 5 of 18 , Nov 2, 2008
              --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Swank" <rswank@...> wrote:
              >
              > Again I disagree with you. There are probably 16 or 17 ATSC compliant
              > MpegII streams easily receivable in San Jose with an antenna.
              >

              Hmm, how many of those are in/with English language programming?
              I would guess that of the approximately 50% non English all the time
              ota broadcasts, most of the folks here at this forum would not find
              relevant/useful or really care.

              OK,,, I could not resist getting a point here about the questionable
              use of American airwaves for totally non English programing 24/7.

              Since NBC owns one of the Spanish language networks, can't they at
              least require English language sub-channel for those American made
              movies and TV programs which do appear on the Latino channel(s)?

              Maybe the FCC should have a rule that 50% of all US broadcast airspace
              should be in the Language of THIS country.

              (bracing myself - flame away, anyone who so wishes)


              >
              > _____
              >
              > From: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com]
              > On Behalf Of bill weber
              > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 12:55 AM
              > To: hdtv-in-sfbay@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: RE: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: NBC Aspect ratio?? Richard? KSBW
              >
              >
              >
              > Explain please.....Only Kteh....KQED AND KKPX are over broadcasting
              mpeg2
              > streams on their channels in the San Jose bay area..
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > _____
              >
              > To: HDTV-in-SF111111111 <mailto:HDTV-in-SF1111111111bay@yahoogroups.com>
              > 1bay@yahoogroups.com
              > From: Lopakabob@...
              > Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 04:22:08 +0000
              > Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: NBC Aspect ratio?? Richard? KSBW
              >
              > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "kb1we6r" <capyo670@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Richard; [snip] This sucks. What is NBC's intention?
              > This is a prime example of why there are a few people on this
              Website who
              > work for local TV stations that choose to be under the radar.
              >
              > _____
              >
              > When your life is on the go-take your life with you. Try
              > <http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/115298558/direct/01/> Windows MobileR
              today
              >
            • Richard Swank
              Well in the OLD days that would work. There are so many hyphenated Americans now that are either bi-lingual or English as second language that these stations
              Message 6 of 18 , Nov 3, 2008

                Well in the OLD days that would work.  There are so many hyphenated Americans now that are either bi-lingual or English as second language that these stations are able to make money (the determining factor in most business ventures).  Guess what these folks spend money just like the other half and advertisers like that.

                 

                Lets see what happens if Obama, Pelosi, and the democrats get full control of the government tomorrow.  I can see the percentage of English only speaking viewers dwindling even more and the financial burden placed on just those folks increasing to pay for it.  Sorry for the political.

                 


                From: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com [mailto: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of epicurusradium
                Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 10:43 AM
                To: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: NBC Aspect ratio?? Richard? KSBW

                 

                --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@ yahoogroups. com, "Richard Swank" <rswank@...> wrote:

                >
                > Again I disagree with you. There are probably 16 or 17 ATSC compliant
                > MpegII streams easily receivable in San
                Jose with an antenna.
                >

                Hmm, how many of those are in/with English language programming?
                I would guess that of the approximately 50% non English all the time
                ota broadcasts, most of the folks here at this forum would not find
                relevant/useful or really care.

                OK,,, I could not resist getting a point here about the questionable
                use of American airwaves for totally non English programing 24/7.

                Since NBC owns one of the Spanish language networks, can't they at
                least require English language sub-channel for those American made
                movies and TV programs which do appear on the Latino channel(s)?

                Maybe the FCC should have a rule that 50% of all US broadcast airspace
                should be in the Language of THIS country.

                (bracing myself - flame away, anyone who so wishes)

                >
                > _____
                >
                > From: HDTV-in-SFbay@ yahoogroups. com
                [mailto:HDTV-in-SFbay@ yahoogroups. com]
                > On Behalf Of bill weber
                > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 12:55 AM
                > To: hdtv-in-sfbay@ yahoogroups. com
                > Subject: RE: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: NBC Aspect ratio?? Richard? KSBW
                >
                >
                >
                > Explain please.....Only Kteh....KQED AND KKPX are over broadcasting
                mpeg2
                > streams on their channels in the San
                Jose bay area..
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > _____
                >
                > To: HDTV-in-SF111111111 <mailto:
                href="mailto:HDTV-in-SF1111111111bay%40yahoogroups.com">HDTV-in-SF111111111 1bay@yahoogroups .com>
                > 1bay@yahoogroups. com
                > From: Lopakabob@.. .
                > Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 04:22:08 +0000
                > Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: NBC Aspect ratio?? Richard? KSBW
                >
                > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@ yahoogroups. com,
                "kb1we6r" <capyo670@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Richard; [snip] This sucks. What is NBC's intention?
                > This is a prime example of why there are a few people on this
                Website who
                > work for local TV stations that choose to be under the radar.
                >
                > _____
                >
                > When your life is on the go-take your life with you. Try
                > <http://clk.atdmt. com/MRT/go/ 115298558/ direct/01/>
                Windows MobileR
                today
                >

              • epicurusradium
                ... language that ... the other ... (Just one more point on this subject:) Most of the so called hyphenated Americans, who actually are Americans, from south
                Message 7 of 18 , Nov 3, 2008
                  --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Swank" <rswank@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Well in the OLD days that would work. There are so many hyphenated
                  > Americans now that are either bi-lingual or English as second
                  language that
                  > these stations are able to make money (the determining factor in most
                  > business ventures). Guess what these folks spend money just like
                  the other
                  > half and advertisers like that.
                  >
                  (Just one more point on this subject:)

                  Most of the so called hyphenated Americans, who actually are
                  Americans, from south of the border do have some command of the
                  English language as required to work and carry on business here. It
                  does them nor society any good to foster separation of culture(s).

                  I think that pandering to ethnicity for questionable profit is short
                  sighted and counterproductive. I would bet you cannot name one other
                  country in the western hemisphere (other than Canada/Quebec) which
                  does this (for English, which IS the language of business and commerce
                  world wide). All I am suggesting is to limit foreign language air time
                  to 50% total for those stations which are so oriented.
                  > (snip)
                  > Lets see what happens if Obama, Pelosi, and the democrats get full
                  control
                  >
                  AN EVENTUALITY which makes me shudder! Everyone's financial burden
                  will increase while freedom of expression will decrease.

                  epicurus ~
                  >
                  > of the government tomorrow. I can see the percentage of English only
                  > speaking viewers dwindling even more and the financial burden placed
                  on just
                  > those folks increasing to pay for it. Sorry for the political.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > _____
                  >
                  > From: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com
                  [mailto:HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com]
                  > On Behalf Of epicurusradium
                  > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 10:43 AM
                  > To: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: NBC Aspect ratio?? Richard? KSBW
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@ <mailto:HDTV-in-SFbay%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > yahoogroups.com, "Richard Swank" <rswank@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Again I disagree with you. There are probably 16 or 17 ATSC compliant
                  > > MpegII streams easily receivable in San Jose with an antenna.
                  > >
                  >
                  > Hmm, how many of those are in/with English language programming?
                  > I would guess that of the approximately 50% non English all the time
                  > ota broadcasts, most of the folks here at this forum would not find
                  > relevant/useful or really care.
                  >
                  > OK,,, I could not resist getting a point here about the questionable
                  > use of American airwaves for totally non English programing 24/7.
                  >
                  > Since NBC owns one of the Spanish language networks, can't they at
                  > least require English language sub-channel for those American made
                  > movies and TV programs which do appear on the Latino channel(s)?
                  >
                  > Maybe the FCC should have a rule that 50% of all US broadcast airspace
                  > should be in the Language of THIS country.
                  >
                  > (bracing myself - flame away, anyone who so wishes)
                  >
                  > >
                  > > _____
                  > >
                  > > From: HDTV-in-SFbay@ <mailto:HDTV-in-SFbay%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > yahoogroups.com
                  > [mailto:HDTV-in-SFbay@ <mailto:HDTV-in-SFbay%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > yahoogroups.com]
                  > > On Behalf Of bill weber
                  > > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 12:55 AM
                  > > To: hdtv-in-sfbay@ <mailto:hdtv-in-sfbay%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: RE: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: NBC Aspect ratio?? Richard? KSBW
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Explain please.....Only Kteh....KQED AND KKPX are over broadcasting
                  > mpeg2
                  > > streams on their channels in the San Jose bay area..
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > _____
                  > >
                  > > To: HDTV-in-SF111111111 <mailto:HDTV-in-SF111111111
                  > <mailto:HDTV-in-SF1111111111bay%40yahoogroups.com> 1bay@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > 1bay@yahoogroups. <mailto:1bay%40yahoogroups.com> com
                  > > From: Lopakabob@
                  > > Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 04:22:08 +0000
                  > > Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: NBC Aspect ratio?? Richard? KSBW
                  > >
                  > > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@ <mailto:HDTV-in-SFbay%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > yahoogroups.com, "kb1we6r" <capyo670@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Richard; [snip] This sucks. What is NBC's intention?
                  > > This is a prime example of why there are a few people on this
                  > Website who
                  > > work for local TV stations that choose to be under the radar.
                  > >
                  > > _____
                  > >
                  > > When your life is on the go-take your life with you. Try
                  > > <http://clk.atdmt <http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/115298558/direct/01/>
                  > com/MRT/go/115298558/direct/01/> Windows MobileR
                  > today
                  > >
                  >
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