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Re: NBC Aspect ratio?? Richard? KSBW

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  • kb1we6r
    OK, final post on this topic for me. Seems the aspect ratios are all over the place. I thought there might be some kind of plan. Maybe things will settle down
    Message 1 of 18 , Oct 31, 2008
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      OK, final post on this topic for me. Seems the aspect ratios are all
      over the place. I thought there might be some kind of plan. Maybe
      things will settle down after Feb!!
      I did some testing this morning during NBC's Today show on KSBW.
      OTA HD is beautiful 16x9!!
      OTA analog ch8 4x3 (on my wide screen TV) has the sides cut off (loss
      of picture info and NO way for me to recover by setting my aspect
      ratio).
      OTA digital on a NON-HD receiver with 4x3 TV, I could select 16x9
      letterboxed bars top and bottom (and see the whole picture) or zoom
      it in and fill the screen but cut off the sides.
      On the dishnetwork with SD receiver and the widescreen TV, I see a
      4x3 picture (bars at the side only) and the picture is cut off on the
      sides and no way to recover the loss. On the today show, it is no big
      deal, but on prime-time Law&Order, there was text on several scenes
      that was cut off and lost!!
      The PROPER way (according to me) would be to letterbox the 16x9
      picture with bars top and bottom in the 4x3 size and I can ZOOM my
      aspect ratio out to fill the screen with no picture loss or
      distortion (other than it is not HD). And this *IS* how Dishnetwork
      does the Discovery ch and other HD shows, but NOT KSBW, and maybe
      others.
      Thanks!
      Keith


      --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Swank" <rswank@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > I have no idea what KSBW is doing. I'm not surprised that the
      > Salinas-Monterey market local HDs are not offered by Dish at this
      time. At
      > least with your equipment you should not be allowed to tune to any
      Dish
      > Network HD channel. If you are paying for HD channels and don't
      have any HD
      > receivers it is wrong. If you are not paying for HD then those HD
      channels
      > shouldn't be available to you to tune to.
      >
      >
      >
      > At the present time NBC and I imagine the others produce HD
      programming with
      > SD format in mind. SD programming is therefore a 4x3 center cut of
      the 16x9
      > in 480i verses the 1080i of HD and no extremely important picture
      info is
      > lost and the viewer receives a full screen. Theatrical movies and
      live
      > sports or news however do have picture info happen outside the
      center cut
      > but the jest is not lost for the most part.
      >
      >
      >
      > In Feb of 2009 this will change however as the viewer will only
      receive the
      > digital transmissions of the local broadcaster. This could in fact
      be a
      > 1080i 16x9 transmission of a SD or HD program or it could be a 480i
      sub
      > channel which would be 4x3. In smaller markets it could start out
      as an
      > ATSC stream with only a 480i 4x3 primary channel no HD at all. The
      > converter boxes that are for analog television users have options
      for the
      > 4x3 display so that they can choose how they want to see 16x9
      offerings,
      > such as do nothing, crop or center cut etc. Analog viewers will
      for the
      > most part see full screen presentations of 16x9 HD programs in 480i
      unless
      > they choose to watch it in window box mode.
      >
      >
      >
      > Filling the screen when you use a satellite delivery medium or even
      off-air
      > is more difficult for HD viewers as at the present time there are
      more 4x3
      > offering than 16x9. If a signal is sent in 1080i 16x9 format and
      it is a
      > 4x3 upconverted 480i program there are side panels. Since most
      receivers do
      > not allow you to format change a 1080i picture that is how it is.
      >
      >
      >
      > My suggestion to you is to get a Dish HD receiver and buy the HD
      > programming. Use the analog output and use the receivers display
      options.
      >
      >
      >
      > Please send further questions to me off-aline as this isn't a prime
      function
      > of the users group.
      >
      > _____
      >
      > From: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com [mailto:HDTV-in-
      SFbay@yahoogroups.com]
      > On Behalf Of kb1we6r
      > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 7:04 AM
      > To: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: NBC Aspect ratio?? Richard? KSBW
      >
      >
      >
      > So on a HD show, does your formatted 4x3 picture retain the whole
      > 16x9 show picture and add bars at the top and bottom?? (so folks
      like
      > me can zoom our aspect ratio to properly fill the screen) Or do you
      > cut off some of the picture like I see on KSBW over Dishnetwork?
      That
      > would give me some idea as to what KSBW may be doing (if anything).
      >
      > My Dishnetwork equipment is only SD.
      >
      > Dishnetwork does not offer KSBW HD yet, so maybe they are just
      taking
      > the analog OTA pic, I will have to do a side by side comparison.
      But
      > they DO offer Discovery ch HD, and they DO letterbox the shows that
      > are in HD (on my SD receiver), then I zoom it out to fill the
      screen
      > (it's not HD, but looks much better filled out).
      >
      > If Dishnetwork does not get a formatted SD signal from KSBW, I
      wonder
      > what they will do in Feb?
      > Keith
      >
      > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@ <mailto:HDTV-in-SFbay%40yahoogroups.com>
      > yahoogroups.com, "Swank, Richard (NBC Universal,
      > KNTV)" <Richard.Swank@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Most HDTV receivers allow you to modify how you display the SD
      > pictures.
      > > Some do not allow you to modify a received HD picture aspect
      ratio.
      > > Does the DH Dish network receiver you use allow you to change it's
      > > output display format.
      > >
      > > KNTV uses a rather expensive format conversion box for doing this
      > and we
      > > feed Dish network our 4x3 picture for KNTV-SD and the 16x9 HD
      > signal for
      > > KNTV-HD.
      > >
      > > My question to you is don't you also receive the KSBW analog
      signal
      > on
      > > Dish Networks? Is it screwed up aspect wise as well? If not then
      > that
      > > would probably be the way to record using the current TIVO you are
      > > using. The Discovery channel you quoted as being OK. I imagine
      > that
      > > Dish has both DiscoveryHD and DiscoverySD signals on their system
      > much
      > > like DirecTV has. If so is it the DiscoverySD that you can modify?
      > >
      > > The Satellite companies usually have both on their systems as
      there
      > are
      > > a number of subscribers that do not take the HD feeds and the SD
      > > versions need to be there for those folks.
      >
    • bill weber
      Explain please.....Only Kteh....KQED AND KKPX are over broadcasting mpeg2 streams on their channels in the San Jose bay area.. To:
      Message 2 of 18 , Nov 1, 2008
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        Explain please.....Only Kteh....KQED AND KKPX  are over broadcasting mpeg2 streams on their channels in the San Jose bay area..




        To: HDTV-in-SF1111111111bay@yahoogroups.com
        From: Lopakabob@...
        Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 04:22:08 +0000
        Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: NBC Aspect ratio?? Richard? KSBW

        --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "kb1we6r" <capyo670@...> wrote:
        >
        > Richard; [snip] This sucks.  What is NBC's intention?
        This is a prime example of why there are a few people on this Website who work for local TV stations that choose to be under the radar.


        When your life is on the go—take your life with you. Try Windows Mobile® today
      • bill weber
        Could we say these statistical muxes are dreaming about spreading a bandwith. These machines are not fast enough for real time in the last 4 years., the end
        Message 3 of 18 , Nov 1, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Could we say these statistical muxes are dreaming about spreading a bandwith. These machines are not fast enough for real time in the last 4 years.,
          the end user only gets jagged lines and slow smeared video...and at worst....blocks






          To: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com
          From: rswank@...
          Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 14:44:05 -0800
          Subject: RE: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: NBC Aspect ratio?? Richard? KSBW


          I have no idea what KSBW is doing.  I’m not surprised that the Salinas-Monterey market local HDs are not offered by Dish at this time.  At least with your equipment you should not be allowed to tune to any Dish Network HD channel.  If you are paying for HD channels and don’t have any HD receivers it is wrong.  If you are not paying for HD then those HD channels shouldn’t be available to you to tune to.

           

          At the present time NBC and I imagine the others produce HD programming with SD format in mind.  SD programming is therefore a 4x3 center cut of the 16x9 in 480i verses the 1080i of HD and no extremely important picture info is lost and the viewer receives a full screen.  Theatrical movies and live sports or news however do have picture info happen outside the center cut but the jest is not lost for the most part. 

           

          In Feb of 2009 this will change however as the viewer will only receive the digital transmissions of the local broadcaster.  This could in fact be a 1080i 16x9 transmission of a SD or HD program or it could be a 480i sub channel which would be 4x3.  In smaller markets it could start out as an ATSC stream with only a 480i 4x3 primary channel no HD at all.  The converter boxes that are for analog television users have options for the 4x3 display so that they can choose how they want to see 16x9 offerings, such as do nothing, crop or center cut etc.  Analog viewers will for the most part see full screen presentations of 16x9 HD programs in 480i unless they choose to watch it in window box mode.

           

          Filling the screen when you use a satellite delivery medium or even off-air is more difficult for HD viewers as at the present time there are more 4x3 offering than 16x9.  If a signal is sent in 1080i 16x9 format and it is a 4x3 upconverted 480i program there are side panels.  Since most receivers do not allow you to format change a 1080i picture that is how it is.

           

          My suggestion to you is to get a Dish HD receiver and buy the HD programming.  Use the analog output and use the receivers display options.

           

          Please send further questions to me off-aline as this isn’t a prime function of the users group.


          From: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com [mailto:HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kb1we6r
          Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 7:04 AM
          To: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: NBC Aspect ratio?? Richard? KSBW

           

          So on a HD show, does your formatted 4x3 picture retain the whole
          16x9 show picture and add bars at the top and bottom?? (so folks like
          me can zoom our aspect ratio to properly fill the screen) Or do you
          cut off some of the picture like I see on KSBW over Dishnetwork? That
          would give me some idea as to what KSBW may be doing (if anything).

          My Dishnetwork equipment is only SD.

          Dishnetwork does not offer KSBW HD yet, so maybe they are just taking
          the analog OTA pic, I will have to do a side by side comparison. But
          they DO offer Discovery ch HD, and they DO letterbox the shows that
          are in HD (on my SD receiver), then I zoom it out to fill the screen
          (it's not HD, but looks much better filled out).

          If Dishnetwork does not get a formatted SD signal from KSBW, I wonder
          what they will do in Feb?
          Keith

          --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@ yahoogroups. com, "Swank, Richard (NBC Universal,
          KNTV)" <Richard.Swank@ ...> wrote:

          >
          > Most HDTV receivers allow you to modify how you display the SD
          pictures.
          > Some do not allow you to modify a received HD picture aspect ratio.
          > Does the DH Dish network receiver you use allow you to change it's
          > output display format.
          >
          > KNTV uses a rather expensive format conversion box for doing this
          and we
          > feed Dish network our 4x3 picture for KNTV-SD and the 16x9 HD
          signal for
          > KNTV-HD.
          >
          > My question to you is don't you also receive the KSBW analog signal
          on
          > Dish Networks? Is it screwed up aspect wise as well? If not then
          that
          > would probably be the way to record using the current TIVO you are
          > using. The Discovery channel you quoted as being OK. I imagine
          that
          > Dish has both DiscoveryHD and DiscoverySD signals on their system
          much
          > like DirecTV has. If so is it the DiscoverySD that you can modify?
          >
          > The Satellite companies usually have both on their systems as there
          are
          > a number of subscribers that do not take the HD feeds and the SD
          > versions need to be there for those folks.



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        • Richard Swank
          I beg to differ with you. I give you your opinion but then everyone has one of those. _____ From: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com
          Message 4 of 18 , Nov 2, 2008
          • 0 Attachment

            I beg to differ with you.  I give you your opinion but then everyone has one of those.


            From: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com [mailto: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of bill weber
            Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 1:07 AM
            To: hdtv-in-sfbay@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: NBC Aspect ratio?? Richard? KSBW

             

            Could we say these statistical muxes are dreaming about spreading a bandwith. These machines are not fast enough for real time in the last 4 years.,
            the end user only gets jagged lines and slow smeared video...and at worst....blocks





            To: HDTV-in-SFbay@ yahoogroups. com
            From: rswank@razzolink. com
            Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 14:44:05 -0800
            Subject: RE: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: NBC Aspect ratio?? Richard? KSBW

            I have no idea what KSBW is doing.  I’m not surprised that the Salinas-Monterey market local HDs are not offered by Dish at this time.  At least with your equipment you should not be allowed to tune to any Dish Network HD channel.  If you are paying for HD channels and don’t have any HD receivers it is wrong.  If you are not paying for HD then those HD channels shouldn’t be available to you to tune to.

             

            At the present time NBC and I imagine the others produce HD programming with SD format in mind.  SD programming is therefore a 4x3 center cut of the 16x9 in 480i verses the 1080i of HD and no extremely important picture info is lost and the viewer receives a full screen.  Theatrical movies and live sports or news however do have picture info happen outside the center cut but the jest is not lost for the most part. 

             

            In Feb of 2009 this will change however as the viewer will only receive the digital transmissions of the local broadcaster.  This could in fact be a 1080i 16x9 transmission of a SD or HD program or it could be a 480i sub channel which would be 4x3.  In smaller markets it could start out as an ATSC stream with only a 480i 4x3 primary channel no HD at all.  The converter boxes that are for analog television users have options for the 4x3 display so that they can choose how they want to see 16x9 offerings, such as do nothing, crop or center cut etc.  Analog viewers will for the most part see full screen presentations of 16x9 HD programs in 480i unless they choose to watch it in window box mode.

             

            Filling the screen when you use a satellite delivery medium or even off-air is more difficult for HD viewers as at the present time there are more 4x3 offering than 16x9.  If a signal is sent in 1080i 16x9 format and it is a 4x3 upconverted 480i program there are side panels.  Since most receivers do not allow you to format change a 1080i picture that is how it is.

             

            My suggestion to you is to get a Dish HD receiver and buy the HD programming.  Use the analog output and use the receivers display options.

             

            Please send further questions to me off-aline as this isn’t a prime function of the users group.


            From: HDTV-in-SFbay@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: HDTV- in-SFbay@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of kb1we6r
            Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 7:04 AM
            To: HDTV-in-SFbay@ yahoogroups. com
            Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: NBC Aspect ratio?? Richard? KSBW

             

            So on a HD show, does your formatted 4x3 picture retain the whole
            16x9 show picture and add bars at the top and bottom?? (so folks like
            me can zoom our aspect ratio to properly fill the screen) Or do you
            cut off some of the picture like I see on KSBW over Dishnetwork? That
            would give me some idea as to what KSBW may be doing (if anything).

            My Dishnetwork equipment is only SD.

            Dishnetwork does not offer KSBW HD yet, so maybe they are just taking
            the analog OTA pic, I will have to do a side by side comparison. But
            they DO offer Discovery ch HD, and they DO letterbox the shows that
            are in HD (on my SD receiver), then I zoom it out to fill the screen
            (it's not HD, but looks much better filled out).

            If Dishnetwork does not get a formatted SD signal from KSBW, I wonder
            what they will do in Feb?
            Keith

            --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@ yahoogroups. com, "Swank, Richard (NBC Universal,
            KNTV)" <Richard.Swank@ ...> wrote:

            >
            > Most HDTV receivers allow you to modify how you display the SD
            pictures.
            > Some do not allow you to modify a received HD picture aspect ratio.
            > Does the DH Dish network receiver you use allow you to change it's
            > output display format.
            >
            > KNTV uses a rather expensive format conversion box for doing this
            and we
            > feed Dish network our 4x3 picture for KNTV-SD and the 16x9 HD
            signal for
            > KNTV-HD.
            >
            > My question to you is don't you also receive the KSBW analog signal
            on
            > Dish Networks? Is it screwed up aspect wise as well? If not then
            that
            > would probably be the way to record using the current TIVO you are
            > using. The Discovery channel you quoted as being OK. I imagine
            that
            > Dish has both DiscoveryHD and DiscoverySD signals on their system
            much
            > like DirecTV has. If so is it the DiscoverySD that you can modify?
            >
            > The Satellite companies usually have both on their systems as there
            are
            > a number of subscribers that do not take the HD feeds and the SD
            > versions need to be there for those folks.

             


            Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how. Learn Now

          • Richard Swank
            Again I disagree with you. There are probably 16 or 17 ATSC compliant MpegII streams easily receivable in San Jose with an antenna. _____ From:
            Message 5 of 18 , Nov 2, 2008
            • 0 Attachment

              Again I disagree with you.  There are probably 16 or 17 ATSC compliant MpegII streams easily receivable in San Jose with an antenna.


              From: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com [mailto: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of bill weber
              Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 12:55 AM
              To: hdtv-in-sfbay@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: NBC Aspect ratio?? Richard? KSBW

               

              Explain please.....Only Kteh....KQED AND KKPX  are over broadcasting mpeg2 streams on their channels in the San Jose bay area..



              To: HDTV-in-SF111111111 1bay@yahoogroups .com
              From: Lopakabob@aol. com
              Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 04:22:08 +0000
              Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: NBC Aspect ratio?? Richard? KSBW

              --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@ yahoogroups. com , "kb1we6r" <capyo670@...> wrote:

              >
              > Richard; [snip] This sucks.  What is NBC's intention?
              This is a prime example of why there are a few people on this Website who work for local TV stations that choose to be under the radar.


              When your life is on the go—take your life with you. Try Windows Mobile® today

            • epicurusradium
              ... Hmm, how many of those are in/with English language programming? I would guess that of the approximately 50% non English all the time ota broadcasts, most
              Message 6 of 18 , Nov 2, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Swank" <rswank@...> wrote:
                >
                > Again I disagree with you. There are probably 16 or 17 ATSC compliant
                > MpegII streams easily receivable in San Jose with an antenna.
                >

                Hmm, how many of those are in/with English language programming?
                I would guess that of the approximately 50% non English all the time
                ota broadcasts, most of the folks here at this forum would not find
                relevant/useful or really care.

                OK,,, I could not resist getting a point here about the questionable
                use of American airwaves for totally non English programing 24/7.

                Since NBC owns one of the Spanish language networks, can't they at
                least require English language sub-channel for those American made
                movies and TV programs which do appear on the Latino channel(s)?

                Maybe the FCC should have a rule that 50% of all US broadcast airspace
                should be in the Language of THIS country.

                (bracing myself - flame away, anyone who so wishes)


                >
                > _____
                >
                > From: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com]
                > On Behalf Of bill weber
                > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 12:55 AM
                > To: hdtv-in-sfbay@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: RE: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: NBC Aspect ratio?? Richard? KSBW
                >
                >
                >
                > Explain please.....Only Kteh....KQED AND KKPX are over broadcasting
                mpeg2
                > streams on their channels in the San Jose bay area..
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > _____
                >
                > To: HDTV-in-SF111111111 <mailto:HDTV-in-SF1111111111bay@yahoogroups.com>
                > 1bay@yahoogroups.com
                > From: Lopakabob@...
                > Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 04:22:08 +0000
                > Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: NBC Aspect ratio?? Richard? KSBW
                >
                > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "kb1we6r" <capyo670@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Richard; [snip] This sucks. What is NBC's intention?
                > This is a prime example of why there are a few people on this
                Website who
                > work for local TV stations that choose to be under the radar.
                >
                > _____
                >
                > When your life is on the go-take your life with you. Try
                > <http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/115298558/direct/01/> Windows MobileR
                today
                >
              • Richard Swank
                Well in the OLD days that would work. There are so many hyphenated Americans now that are either bi-lingual or English as second language that these stations
                Message 7 of 18 , Nov 3, 2008
                • 0 Attachment

                  Well in the OLD days that would work.  There are so many hyphenated Americans now that are either bi-lingual or English as second language that these stations are able to make money (the determining factor in most business ventures).  Guess what these folks spend money just like the other half and advertisers like that.

                   

                  Lets see what happens if Obama, Pelosi, and the democrats get full control of the government tomorrow.  I can see the percentage of English only speaking viewers dwindling even more and the financial burden placed on just those folks increasing to pay for it.  Sorry for the political.

                   


                  From: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com [mailto: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of epicurusradium
                  Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 10:43 AM
                  To: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: NBC Aspect ratio?? Richard? KSBW

                   

                  --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@ yahoogroups. com, "Richard Swank" <rswank@...> wrote:

                  >
                  > Again I disagree with you. There are probably 16 or 17 ATSC compliant
                  > MpegII streams easily receivable in San
                  Jose with an antenna.
                  >

                  Hmm, how many of those are in/with English language programming?
                  I would guess that of the approximately 50% non English all the time
                  ota broadcasts, most of the folks here at this forum would not find
                  relevant/useful or really care.

                  OK,,, I could not resist getting a point here about the questionable
                  use of American airwaves for totally non English programing 24/7.

                  Since NBC owns one of the Spanish language networks, can't they at
                  least require English language sub-channel for those American made
                  movies and TV programs which do appear on the Latino channel(s)?

                  Maybe the FCC should have a rule that 50% of all US broadcast airspace
                  should be in the Language of THIS country.

                  (bracing myself - flame away, anyone who so wishes)

                  >
                  > _____
                  >
                  > From: HDTV-in-SFbay@ yahoogroups. com
                  [mailto:HDTV-in-SFbay@ yahoogroups. com]
                  > On Behalf Of bill weber
                  > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 12:55 AM
                  > To: hdtv-in-sfbay@ yahoogroups. com
                  > Subject: RE: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: NBC Aspect ratio?? Richard? KSBW
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Explain please.....Only Kteh....KQED AND KKPX are over broadcasting
                  mpeg2
                  > streams on their channels in the San
                  Jose bay area..
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > _____
                  >
                  > To: HDTV-in-SF111111111 <mailto:
                  href="mailto:HDTV-in-SF1111111111bay%40yahoogroups.com">HDTV-in-SF111111111 1bay@yahoogroups .com>
                  > 1bay@yahoogroups. com
                  > From: Lopakabob@.. .
                  > Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 04:22:08 +0000
                  > Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: NBC Aspect ratio?? Richard? KSBW
                  >
                  > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@ yahoogroups. com,
                  "kb1we6r" <capyo670@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Richard; [snip] This sucks. What is NBC's intention?
                  > This is a prime example of why there are a few people on this
                  Website who
                  > work for local TV stations that choose to be under the radar.
                  >
                  > _____
                  >
                  > When your life is on the go-take your life with you. Try
                  > <http://clk.atdmt. com/MRT/go/ 115298558/ direct/01/>
                  Windows MobileR
                  today
                  >

                • epicurusradium
                  ... language that ... the other ... (Just one more point on this subject:) Most of the so called hyphenated Americans, who actually are Americans, from south
                  Message 8 of 18 , Nov 3, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Swank" <rswank@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Well in the OLD days that would work. There are so many hyphenated
                    > Americans now that are either bi-lingual or English as second
                    language that
                    > these stations are able to make money (the determining factor in most
                    > business ventures). Guess what these folks spend money just like
                    the other
                    > half and advertisers like that.
                    >
                    (Just one more point on this subject:)

                    Most of the so called hyphenated Americans, who actually are
                    Americans, from south of the border do have some command of the
                    English language as required to work and carry on business here. It
                    does them nor society any good to foster separation of culture(s).

                    I think that pandering to ethnicity for questionable profit is short
                    sighted and counterproductive. I would bet you cannot name one other
                    country in the western hemisphere (other than Canada/Quebec) which
                    does this (for English, which IS the language of business and commerce
                    world wide). All I am suggesting is to limit foreign language air time
                    to 50% total for those stations which are so oriented.
                    > (snip)
                    > Lets see what happens if Obama, Pelosi, and the democrats get full
                    control
                    >
                    AN EVENTUALITY which makes me shudder! Everyone's financial burden
                    will increase while freedom of expression will decrease.

                    epicurus ~
                    >
                    > of the government tomorrow. I can see the percentage of English only
                    > speaking viewers dwindling even more and the financial burden placed
                    on just
                    > those folks increasing to pay for it. Sorry for the political.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > _____
                    >
                    > From: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com
                    [mailto:HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com]
                    > On Behalf Of epicurusradium
                    > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 10:43 AM
                    > To: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: NBC Aspect ratio?? Richard? KSBW
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@ <mailto:HDTV-in-SFbay%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > yahoogroups.com, "Richard Swank" <rswank@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Again I disagree with you. There are probably 16 or 17 ATSC compliant
                    > > MpegII streams easily receivable in San Jose with an antenna.
                    > >
                    >
                    > Hmm, how many of those are in/with English language programming?
                    > I would guess that of the approximately 50% non English all the time
                    > ota broadcasts, most of the folks here at this forum would not find
                    > relevant/useful or really care.
                    >
                    > OK,,, I could not resist getting a point here about the questionable
                    > use of American airwaves for totally non English programing 24/7.
                    >
                    > Since NBC owns one of the Spanish language networks, can't they at
                    > least require English language sub-channel for those American made
                    > movies and TV programs which do appear on the Latino channel(s)?
                    >
                    > Maybe the FCC should have a rule that 50% of all US broadcast airspace
                    > should be in the Language of THIS country.
                    >
                    > (bracing myself - flame away, anyone who so wishes)
                    >
                    > >
                    > > _____
                    > >
                    > > From: HDTV-in-SFbay@ <mailto:HDTV-in-SFbay%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > yahoogroups.com
                    > [mailto:HDTV-in-SFbay@ <mailto:HDTV-in-SFbay%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > yahoogroups.com]
                    > > On Behalf Of bill weber
                    > > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 12:55 AM
                    > > To: hdtv-in-sfbay@ <mailto:hdtv-in-sfbay%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > yahoogroups.com
                    > > Subject: RE: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: NBC Aspect ratio?? Richard? KSBW
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Explain please.....Only Kteh....KQED AND KKPX are over broadcasting
                    > mpeg2
                    > > streams on their channels in the San Jose bay area..
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > _____
                    > >
                    > > To: HDTV-in-SF111111111 <mailto:HDTV-in-SF111111111
                    > <mailto:HDTV-in-SF1111111111bay%40yahoogroups.com> 1bay@yahoogroups.com>
                    > > 1bay@yahoogroups. <mailto:1bay%40yahoogroups.com> com
                    > > From: Lopakabob@
                    > > Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 04:22:08 +0000
                    > > Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: NBC Aspect ratio?? Richard? KSBW
                    > >
                    > > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@ <mailto:HDTV-in-SFbay%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > yahoogroups.com, "kb1we6r" <capyo670@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Richard; [snip] This sucks. What is NBC's intention?
                    > > This is a prime example of why there are a few people on this
                    > Website who
                    > > work for local TV stations that choose to be under the radar.
                    > >
                    > > _____
                    > >
                    > > When your life is on the go-take your life with you. Try
                    > > <http://clk.atdmt <http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/115298558/direct/01/>
                    > com/MRT/go/115298558/direct/01/> Windows MobileR
                    > today
                    > >
                    >
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