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Re: KGO-TV PT operations?

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  • epicurusradium
    ... WITH my TERK HDTVi (indoors in W SJ) and a low noise amp (20db gain @1db internal noise factor) KRCB comes in solid for several hours at a time - under
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 1, 2008
      --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, Larry Kenney <Larry@...> wrote:
      >
      > (snip)
      > KRCB's coverage does not come south of the Golden Gate Bridge. I
      > can't even get it
      > with a CM4228 here in San Francisco, while I can get KFTY 50
      > Santa Rosa and KTLN 68 Novato digital with no problem.

      WITH my TERK HDTVi (indoors in W SJ) and a low noise amp (20db gain
      @1db internal noise factor) KRCB comes in solid for several hours at a
      time - under certain [weather?] conditions - while I have never seen
      KTLN digital - just a very, very snowy analog signal on ch 68.

      On a recent 'Add Channels' scan on the Sony. KTLN appeared in the
      station list at/as ch 37.1 (I still have the KTLN stop showing at ch
      68.1) Is this a glitch on/of the Sony or what? Still no Pic or sound
      however!

      ...............................................
      On Jun 30, 2008, at 9:03 AM, Nick Sayer wrote:
      >
      > > > I have a CM4228 and a Y5-7-13 both aimed northwest feeding a
      > > CM7777 in Santa Clara. I really have the CM7777 because I have
      > > about 7 different drops in the house, so I need to compensate for
      > > all the splitters.
      > >
      > > > At the moment, I'm getting everything I have any sort of hope at
      > > getting. It would be nice to be able to get KSBW (though I don't
      > > have a rotor, so I'd have to get it off the back) and KRCB, but
      > > it's just not happening. Oh well.
      > >
      >
      >
      KRCB's coverage does not come south of the Golden Gate Bridge. I
      > can't even get it
      > with a CM4228 here in San Francisco, while I can get KFTY 50
      > Santa Rosa and KTLN 68 Novato digital with no problem.
      >
      > > > But one thing that has me a bit concerned is the TVFool.com data
      > > that suggests that KGO-TV's PT operation will be about 20 kW of
      > > ERP. KNTV-DT is about 100 kW. Channel 7 is only 30 MHz lower than
      > > channel 12... can that small frequency difference adequately
      > > explain such a large difference in power level between the two? Am
      > > I going to have any trouble picking up KGO after February?
      > >
      >
      > > KNTV has one of the most powerful VHF digital transmitters in the
      > > entire country. It's in the top 10, from what I've heard.
      > > Considering their height of 1237 feet above average terrain, they
      > > will have one of the best signals post transition. KGO-DT's 24 kw
      > > on channel 7 is about average for that channel, but considering
      > > their antenna location atop Sutro Tower, they will also have
      > > excellent coverage.
      > >
      >
      > > If you go to the FCC web site and look at the coverage maps for KGO
      > > you'll see that their post transition coverage on channel 7 is
      > > better than their present analog coverage on channel 7, and much
      > > better than their digital coverage on channel 24.
      > >
      >
      > > (To see the coverage maps for any of the Bay Area stations, go to
      > > my channel listing at http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html and
      > > click on the call letters. They are linked to the station's
      > > records on the FCC web site where you'll find full station
      > > information including "Service Contour Map" links for each station.)
      > >
      >
      > > Take a look at KRCB's coverage while you're there and you'll see
      > > how small their coverage area is.
      > >
      > >
      >
      > > One way to see if you're going to get KGO-DT on channel 7 is to see
      > > what you get for a picture for KGO-TV analog on 7. They'll be
      > > transmitting from the same antenna, and the 24 kw digital is
      > > slightly better than the 316 kw analog. If the analog picture is
      > > clear, without ghosts or snow, you should have no problem with KGO-
      > > DT on channel 7. However, if you have poor analog reception,
      > > you'll probably have problems with the digital signal too.
      > >
      >
      > > Larry
      > >
      >
      > > SF
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > >
      >
    • Nick Sayer
      ... What gives me some hope is that the current temporary DT transmission from KRCB is puny, but the contour map that the FCC site gives for their PT
      Message 2 of 5 , Jul 1, 2008
        --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, Larry Kenney <Larry@...> wrote:
        >
        > On Jun 30, 2008, at 9:03 AM, Nick Sayer wrote:

        > >
        > > > At the moment, I'm getting everything I have any sort of hope at
        > > getting. It would be nice to be able to get KSBW (though I don't
        > > have a rotor, so I'd have to get it off the back) and KRCB, but
        > > it's just not happening. Oh well.
        > >

        >
        > KRCB's coverage does not come south of the Golden Gate Bridge. I
        > can't even get it
        > with a CM4228 here in San Francisco, while I can get KFTY 50
        > Santa Rosa and
        > KTLN 68 Novato digital with no problem.

        What gives me some hope is that the current temporary DT transmission from KRCB is
        puny, but the contour map that the FCC site gives for their PT operation's application goes
        all the way down to Fremont. It's conceivable that my 4228 might be able to eek out
        something acceptable. I'd love to get a glimpse of the Annenberg channel on 23.2. I've
        never seen a thing from KFTY, but we do get just enough from KTLN-DT for full-time
        reception (though oddly enough EyeTV doesn't seem to know who they are and shows a
        PSIP of 67, which seems wrong to me).

        On the analog side, currently it appears that we're receiving a glimmer of KRCB, but it's
        getting stomped by KAXT. PT it appears that they're actually moving north out of range.
        Personally, I'd consider trading KAXT for KRCB to be an excellent deal. :)

        KFTY-DT is currently obscured by KTEH's analog signal on 54, but their PT contour doesn't
        offer much hope.

        >
        > > > But one thing that has me a bit concerned is the TVFool.com data
        > > that suggests that KGO-TV's PT operation will be about 20 kW of
        > > ERP. KNTV-DT is about 100 kW. Channel 7 is only 30 MHz lower than
        > > channel 12... can that small frequency difference adequately
        > > explain such a large difference in power level between the two? Am
        > > I going to have any trouble picking up KGO after February?
        > >
        >
        > > One way to see if you're going to get KGO-DT on channel 7 is to see
        > > what you get for a picture for KGO-TV analog on 7. They'll be
        > > transmitting from the same antenna, and the 24 kw digital is
        > > slightly better than the 316 kw analog. If the analog picture is
        > > clear, without ghosts or snow, you should have no problem with KGO-
        > > DT on channel 7. However, if you have poor analog reception,
        > > you'll probably have problems with the digital signal too.

        We have a great analog picture on 7 - if anything, the gain of the whole system is probably
        too great, because there is some evidence of multipath, but not so much that you'd object
        (you have to look close). So I'll stop worrying. :) Thanks.
      • Larry Kenney
        ... Both of those reception issues are really interesting... and weird! Something weird is happening when you receive KRCB on an INDOOR antenna in San Jose.
        Message 3 of 5 , Jul 1, 2008

          On Jul 1, 2008, at 10:05 AM, epicurusradium wrote:

          WITH my TERK HDTVi (indoors in W SJ) and a low noise amp (20db gain
          @1db internal noise factor) KRCB comes in solid for several hours at a
          time - under certain [weather?] conditions - while I have never seen
          KTLN digital - just a very, very snowy analog signal on ch 68. 

          On a recent 'Add Channels' scan on the Sony. KTLN appeared in the
          station list at/as ch 37.1 (I still have the KTLN stop showing at ch
          68.1) Is this a glitch on/of the Sony or what? Still no Pic or sound
          however!










          Both of those reception issues are really interesting... and weird!  

          Something weird is happening when you receive KRCB on an INDOOR antenna in San Jose.  That's quite an amazing report!  According to their coverage map, they don't reach past the Golden Gate Bridge, and I'm on a 315 foot hill in San Francisco with a clear shot to the north and get no signal at all on channel 23.  The signal you're getting must be reflecting off of something.

          Something weird is also happening with KTLN's PSIP information on your Sony.  They transmit on channel 47 with their PSIP showing them at 68.1.  Channel 37 isn't authorized for TV use.  It's assigned for Radio Astronomy.

          With RF you can never say never.  Weird things seem to happen frequently.

          Larry 
          SF

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