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Re: Got your Coupon?

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  • toychinook
    I find in interesting and troubling to read about the ideas of the nature, role, and provenance of governmental power expressed here. It is the role of
    Message 1 of 28 , Apr 1, 2008
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      I find in "interesting" and troubling to read about the ideas of the nature, role, and
      provenance of governmental power expressed here.

      It is the role of gov't. to SERVE the people.

      Gov't. action should come FROM the People, not AT them.

      Many seem quite ready to allow gov't. to, dare I say, "dictate" behaviour and acceptance...

      After all, "The Poor" and "The Old" don't really count, do they?


      --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Swank" <rswank@...> wrote:
      >
      > This is a government program to make the loss of analog easier on the old
      > and poor not those that have the ability to pay. They only allowed you to
      > get a coupon as the cost of policing the income ability to pay would have
      > cost more than just allowing everyone that applies to get one. The program
      > stated exactly what you'd get with the coupon before you ordered it. If you
      > didn't want or need a SD DTV tuner you shouldn't have wasted your time and
      > saved the government $40, excuse me the American tax payers I should have
      > said.
      >
      >
      > Yes, they should be limited to no frills units. This is a government
      > subsidy for folks with legacy TVs. If you want HD, then you should
      > pay the full price for it. I did, you did, many of us did. Keep in
      > mind that a government subsidy comes out of tax dollars. I have no
      > interest in paying some new guy $40 to upgrade his viewing pleasure.
      > Now, I don't mind it at all for a granny who just wants to watch her
      > stories.....
      >
    • Kevin Diggs
      I tend to agree. ... But ... has anyone seen any qualifying units that have SVideo output? The one at the Shack only has composite. The quality difference
      Message 2 of 28 , Apr 1, 2008
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        I tend to agree. ... But ... has anyone seen any "qualifying" units that
        have SVideo output? The one at the Shack only has composite. The quality
        difference between composite and SVideo is bigger than the difference
        between Svideo and component (at least till you start throwing in that
        progressive stuff), right?

        kevin

        bobby6048 wrote:
        >
        >
        > Yes, they should be limited to no frills units. This is a government
        > subsidy for folks with legacy TVs. If you want HD, then you should
        > pay the full price for it. I did, you did, many of us did. Keep in
        > mind that a government subsidy comes out of tax dollars. I have no
        > interest in paying some new guy $40 to upgrade his viewing pleasure.
        > Now, I don't mind it at all for a granny who just wants to watch her
        > stories.....
        >
        > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com
        > <mailto:HDTV-in-SFbay%40yahoogroups.com>, "Gary Penovich" <garypen@...>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > Yes. But, the coupons shouldn't be limited to the no-frills units.
        > > They should be applicable to any unit that receives OTA ATSC and
        > > outputs via RF and composite. If a receiver also can receive and
        > > output HD signals, or even QAM, then it shouldn't disqualify it, as
        > > long as it can still do all of the required basic functions.
        > >
        > > Unfortunately, I didn't make the rules. So, common sense did not
        > > prevail. (SOP for the gov't.)
        > >
        > > GP
        > >
        >
        >
      • markedcw
        I can confirm from personal experience what others have said about the Terk amplified antenna. It sucks. Don t draw any conclusions from using it. I live in an
        Message 3 of 28 , Apr 1, 2008
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          I can confirm from personal experience what others have said about the Terk amplified
          antenna. It sucks. Don't draw any conclusions from using it.

          I live in an apartment complex without an external antenna yet I have line of sight to Sutro
          Tower. In good weather, my DTV set picks up 2-1 and 5-1 without an antenna even
          attached. NBC is a problem though so I tried the Terk. No help. In fact, the reliability of
          for the Sutro channels was worse. I took the advice from this group and got a Silver
          Sensor. Have been happy, even get 11-1 when the weather cooperates, for several years
          since.

          Still have one analog set with rabbit ears in the bedroom so I plan to use my coupon
          (technically it's a card, btw) a converter box. Based on my experience with the HDTV, I'm
          looking forward to improved service with the converter. I'm sure I'll eventually replace that
          15" CRT with a moderate-size flat panel. But the converter box means I don't have to
          hurry.

          Seems to me you're looking for a problem that doesn't exist. The vast majority of folks
          who can receive OTA broadcasts now will benefit from the converter program.

          Mark
          www.stumble.com

          --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "bigfox90210" <cbandman1949@...> wrote:

          > >
          > The analog stations where bouncing in and out with the Terk and we
          > both knew this, and this why we feel that most folks with their
          > analog tv sets will run into trouble, when trying to receive their
          > television stations even with a pair of rabbit ears. We would just
          > like to know for those who can't afford Cable or the small dish, to
          > where to go to have enforcement the many apartments complexes to
          > install some kind of an roof top antenna when aquiring these
          > convertor boxes for the Bay Area broadcast TV stations. As with me
          > I'm encountering the same problem, even with the used of an rooftop
          > antenna on the patio, for the antenna not being high enough to
          > capture many of these broadcast TV stations. This kind of control has
          > to give somewhere.
          >
        • Larry Kenney
          ... The Channel Master CM-7000 has S video. From what I ve heard it s the only one so far. Here are the specs on it, as shown on the Free DTV Shop web site -
          Message 4 of 28 , Apr 1, 2008
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            On Apr 1, 2008, at 1:20 PM, Kevin Diggs wrote:

             ... has anyone seen any "qualifying" units that have SVideo output? The one at the Shack only has composite. The quality difference between composite and SVideo is bigger than the difference between Svideo and component (at least till you start throwing in that progressive stuff), right?

            kevin









            The Channel Master CM-7000 has S video.  From what I've heard it's the only one so far.  Here are the specs on it, as shown on the Free DTV Shop web site - http://www.freedtvshop.com/fdtv/converters/cm7000.php :
                * NTIA Approved Converter Box
                * Receives and Displays All 18 ATSC Formats
                * S-Video Jack
                * Composite Video Jack (RCA Plug)
                * 75 ohm RF Video/Audio Jack (Coaxial Cable)
                * Universal Infrared Remote Control (Can Control TV)
                * AC3 Dolby Digital Stereo Down Mixing
                * Multi-language: English, Spanish
                * Sleep Timer

            Larry
            SF
          • Larry Kenney
            For those who are planning to get a DTV Converter Box, here s a site that offers some reviews and pros and cons of the various models, where they re available
            Message 5 of 28 , Apr 2, 2008
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              For those who are planning to get a DTV Converter Box, here's a site that offers some reviews and pros and cons of the various models, where they're available and the price:

              -or-

              Larry
              SF


            • Richard Swank
              I believe the Channel Master CM7000 D2A has S-video output..Fry s Electronics sells them I understand. They cost a bit more around $70-75. _____ From:
              Message 6 of 28 , Apr 2, 2008
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                I believe the Channel Master CM7000 D2A has S-video output….Fry’s Electronics sells them I understand.  They cost a bit more around $70-75.

                 


                From: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com [mailto: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Larry Kenney
                Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 10:56 PM
                To: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: Got your Coupon?

                 

                On Apr 1, 2008, at 1:20 PM, Kevin Diggs wrote:

                ... has anyone seen any "qualifying" units that have SVideo output? The one at the Shack only has composite. The quality difference between composite and SVideo is bigger than the difference between Svideo and component (at least till you start throwing in that progressive stuff), right?

                kevin

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                The Channel Master CM-7000 has S video. From what I've heard it's the only one so far. Here are the specs on it, as shown on the Free DTV Shop web site - http://www.freedtvs hop.com/fdtv/ converters/ cm7000.php :

                * NTIA Approved Converter Box

                * Receives and Displays All 18 ATSC Formats

                * S-Video Jack

                * Composite Video Jack (RCA Plug)

                * 75 ohm RF Video/Audio Jack (Coaxial Cable)

                * Universal Infrared Remote Control (Can Control TV)

                * AC3 Dolby Digital Stereo Down Mixing

                * Multi-language: English, Spanish

                * Sleep Timer

                 

                Larry

                SF

              • hastypete
                ... 3 ... Got my coupon last night. Hmm, which box to get? I m leaning toward the magnavox at Walmart. - peter
                Message 7 of 28 , Apr 2, 2008
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                  --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "hastypete" <hastypete@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > The website tells me that my coupons have been sent, but I'm on week
                  3
                  > without getting them.
                  >
                  > Anyone else not get theirs yet? I have a flaky mailman and wonder if
                  > he just "lost" them.
                  >
                  > - peter
                  >

                  Got my coupon last night. Hmm, which box to get? I'm leaning toward
                  the magnavox at Walmart.

                  - peter
                • Swank, Richard (NBC Universal, KNTV)
                  FYI: I m not sure if this is technical support issue or a customer service issue, so I ll email both places. I work for an NBC Universal Owned-and-Operated
                  Message 8 of 28 , Apr 3, 2008
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                    FYI:

                     

                    I’m not sure if this is “technical support” issue or a “customer service” issue, so I’ll email both places.

                     

                    I work for an NBC Universal Owned-and-Operated station (KNTV) in San Jose, California.  We had a need, since there’s no cable TV where we’re at, for very high quality composite analog signals (for a TiVo-like project).  Based upon Channel Master’s reputation over the years, we went with the CM-7000.  We’ve had nothing but problems from them.

                     

                    While our initial test unit seems to be performing well, other units have the following issues…

                     

                    ·         They power down after a while, even though auto-shut-off is disabled.

                    ·         They lose their programming, such that when you simply turn them off and back on again, there are no channels in memory

                    ·         The few times they do remember the channels, they don’t remember which channels were picked as favorites and which were blocked (basically they were programmed at one-channel-per-box)

                    ·         Some receivers came with San Diego stations pre-programmed into them

                    ·         Although deliberately disabled on all boxes, you can sometimes go back into the menu and find that “auto-shut-off” has re-enabled

                    ·         The language spontaneously changed to Spanish on 3 units.

                     

                    We purchased 11 in total, and all are exhibiting some form of issues except the two that haven’t been opened yet and are headed up to our transmitter sites.  (While the initial test unit works, stations that were blocked are now showing up as favorites)

                     

                    Fry’s Electronics, where we purchased them from, is not going to want to take 11 units back, especially opened—even though they should clearly be returned to the vendor.

                     

                    How do you propose we address these issues?  Should we be looking at other brands?

                     

                    Thanks for your assistance,

                    -Mike


                    From: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com [mailto:HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Diggs
                    Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 1:21 PM
                    To: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [LIKELY_SPAM]Re: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: Got your Coupon?

                    I tend to agree. ... But ... has anyone seen any "qualifying" units that
                    have SVideo output? The one at the Shack only has composite. The quality
                    difference between composite and SVideo is bigger than the difference
                    between Svideo and component (at least till you start throwing in that
                    progressive stuff), right?

                    kevin

                    bobby6048 wrote:

                    >
                    >
                    > Yes, they should be limited to no frills units. This is a
                    government
                    > subsidy for folks with legacy TVs. If you want HD, then you
                    should
                    > pay the full price for it. I did, you did, many of us did. Keep
                    in
                    > mind that a government subsidy comes out of tax dollars. I have
                    no
                    > interest in paying some new guy $40 to upgrade his viewing
                    pleasure.
                    > Now, I don't mind it at all for a granny who just wants to
                    watch her
                    > stories.....
                    >
                    > --- In
                    href="mailto:HDTV-in-SFbay%40yahoogroups.com">HDTV-in-SFbay@ yahoogroups. com
                    > <mailto:HDTV- in-SFbay% 40yahoogroups. com>, "Gary
                    Penovich" <garypen@... >
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    Yes. But, the coupons shouldn't be limited to the no-frills units.
                    > >
                    They should be applicable to any unit that receives OTA ATSC and
                    > >
                    outputs via RF and composite. If a receiver also can receive and
                    > >
                    output HD signals, or even QAM, then it shouldn't disqualify it, as
                    > >
                    long as it can still do all of the required basic functions.
                    > >
                    > > Unfortunately, I didn't make the rules. So, common sense did
                    not
                    > > prevail. (SOP for the gov't.)
                    > >
                    > >
                    GP
                    > >
                    >
                    >

                  • Richard Swank
                    An update from Mike... There customer service department was quite helpful. It seems that if you don t own 11 of these boxes and use them side by side most of
                    Message 9 of 28 , Apr 3, 2008
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                      An update from Mike….. There customer service department was quite helpful.  It seems that if you don’t own 11 of these boxes and use them side by side most of these problems will not be present.  It seems that their remote control penetrates the plastic case enough to change function even if the IR sensor is totally blocked.  So when he went from box to box setting them up for use he was actually changing some of the ones he already setup.  Sensitive remote control!

                       

                      Where I tested the unit of course there was only one box and it didn’t display any of these problems.  I’d say the CM-7000 A2D is a good box.  FYI it is rumored that even though they disabled the 5.1 audio output to get the box coupon certified it’s simply a resistor connection to get it active again.  That and S-video make the box a pretty good choice.  Only thing it lacks is the smart antenna.  My understanding of the smart antenna makes that option basically the most desirable when used close to towers in different directions.  Distant station reception is best using a more directional higher gain antenna.

                       

                      I understand it’s at a reduced price now.  Fry’s Electronics.

                       

                      I’m not sure if this is “technical support” issue or a “customer service” issue, so I’ll email both places.

                       

                      I work for an NBC Universal Owned-and-Operated station (KNTV) in San Jose , California .  We had a need, since there’s no cable TV where we’re at, for very high quality composite analog signals (for a TiVo-like project).  Based upon Channel Master’s reputation over the years, we went with the CM-7000.  We’ve had nothing but problems from them.

                       

                      While our initial test unit seems to be performing well, other units have the following issues…

                       

                      ·         They power down after a while, even though auto-shut-off is disabled.

                      ·         They lose their programming, such that when you simply turn them off and back on again, there are no channels in memory

                      ·         The few times they do remember the channels, they don’t remember which channels were picked as favorites and which were blocked (basically they were programmed at one-channel- per-box)

                      ·         Some receivers came with San Diego stations pre-programmed into them

                      ·         Although deliberately disabled on all boxes, you can sometimes go back into the menu and find that “auto-shut-off” has re-enabled

                      ·         The language spontaneously changed to Spanish on 3 units.

                       

                      We purchased 11 in total, and all are exhibiting some form of issues except the two that haven’t been opened yet and are headed up to our transmitter sites.  (While the initial test unit works, stations that were blocked are now showing up as favorites)

                       

                      Fry’s Electronics, where we purchased them from, is not going to want to take 11 units back, especially opened—even though they should clearly be returned to the vendor.

                       

                      How do you propose we address these issues?  Should we be looking at other brands?

                       

                      Thanks for your assistance,

                      -Mike


                      From: HDTV-in-SFbay@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: HDTV- in-SFbay@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Kevin Diggs
                      Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 1:21 PM
                      To: HDTV-in-SFbay@ yahoogroups. com
                      Subject: [LIKELY_SPAM] Re: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: Got your Coupon?

                      I tend to agree. ... But ... has anyone seen any "qualifying" units that
                      have SVideo output? The one at the Shack only has composite. The quality
                      difference between composite and SVideo is bigger than the difference
                      between Svideo and component (at least till you start throwing in that
                      progressive stuff), right?

                      kevin

                      bobby6048 wrote:

                      >
                      >
                      > Yes, they should be limited to no frills units. This is a government
                      > subsidy for folks with legacy TVs. If you want HD, then you should
                      > pay the full price for it. I did, you did, many of us did. Keep in
                      > mind that a government subsidy comes out of tax dollars. I have no
                      > interest in paying some new guy $40 to upgrade his viewing pleasure.
                      > Now, I don't mind it at all for a granny who just wants to watch her
                      > stories.....
                      >
                      > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@ yahoogroups. com
                      > <mailto:HDTV- in-SFbay% 40yahoogroups. com>, "Gary
                      Penovich" <garypen@... >
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Yes. But, the coupons shouldn't be limited to the no-frills units.
                      > > They should be applicable to any unit that receives OTA ATSC and
                      > > outputs via RF and composite. If a receiver also can receive and
                      > > output HD signals, or even QAM, then it shouldn't disqualify it, as
                      > > long as it can still do all of the required basic functions.
                      > >
                      > > Unfortunately, I didn't make the rules. So, common sense did not
                      > > prevail. (SOP for the gov't.)
                      > >
                      > > GP
                      > >
                      >
                      >

                    • toychinook
                      ... I, for one, do not understand why the coupons expire 90 days from the date of mailing. With tech stuff improving week by week, why are we forced to act
                      Message 10 of 28 , Apr 4, 2008
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                        > > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@ <mailto:HDTV-in-SFbay%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > yahoogroups.com
                        > > <mailto:HDTV-in-SFbay%40yahoogroups.com>, "Gary Penovich" <garypen@>
                        > > wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Yes. But, the coupons shouldn't be limited to the no-frills units.
                        > > > They should be applicable to any unit that receives OTA ATSC and
                        > > > outputs via RF and composite. If a receiver also can receive and
                        > > > output HD signals, or even QAM, then it shouldn't disqualify it, as
                        > > > long as it can still do all of the required basic functions.
                        > > >
                        > > > Unfortunately, I didn't make the rules. So, common sense did not
                        > > > prevail. (SOP for the gov't.)
                        > > >
                        > > > GP

                        I, for one, do not understand why the coupons expire 90 days from the date of mailing.

                        With tech stuff improving week by week, why are we forced to act quickly?

                        Is this another example of the gubmnt looking out for "My interests?"
                      • bobby6048
                        I see it as the government protecting your interests in the sense that it would be virtually impossible for someone to scalp the coupon and make money off of
                        Message 11 of 28 , Apr 4, 2008
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                          I see it as the government protecting your interests in the sense that
                          it would be virtually impossible for someone to 'scalp' the coupon and
                          make money off of it. Barebones digital receivers will not be
                          improving week by week. I also see it as a way to move the process
                          along so everyone will be ready long before Feb, 2009.
                          >
                          > I, for one, do not understand why the coupons expire 90 days from
                          the date of mailing.
                          >
                          > With tech stuff improving week by week, why are we forced to act
                          quickly?
                          >
                          > Is this another example of the gubmnt looking out for "My interests?"
                          >
                        • Bob
                          ... Good point, I hadn t thought of that, if everyone waits until the last minute to purchase there won t be enough converter boxes on the shelves to go
                          Message 12 of 28 , Apr 4, 2008
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                            --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "bobby6048" <bobcapl@...> wrote:
                            ><<snip>
                            > I also see it as a way to move the process
                            > along so everyone will be ready long before Feb, 2009.

                            Good point, I hadn't thought of that, if everyone waits until the last
                            minute to purchase there won't be enough converter boxes on the shelves
                            to go around.
                          • chaoshane
                            I received my coupons in the mail on Thursday. I applied online the first week they were available. I walked into Radioshack this morning, picked up my
                            Message 13 of 28 , Apr 5, 2008
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                              I received my coupons in the mail on Thursday. I applied online the
                              first week they were available. I walked into Radioshack this
                              morning, picked up my DigitalStream DTX9900. It took me about 3
                              minutes to swap out the Hughes HTL-HD (Direct TV) receiver I've been
                              using for ATSC. Although the Hughes' video output has more options
                              (HDMI, composite in full HD 720 & 1080), the tuner was definitely
                              better on the DTX9900. I could have picked up the Zenith box but I
                              decided to give the DTX9900 a try. I am not disappointed.

                              I've had to reposition my DB2 indoor antenna to receive 2-1 & 2-2
                              before. Now I get all the channels coming off Sutro and Mt. San Bruno,
                              without having to play with the antenna. I'm about 2 miles east of
                              Sutro in the 2nd floor of a 4 story building and I have occasional
                              drop outs when Muni electric trolley buses go by--but that's another
                              story...

                              I've very happy with the converter box. I even got the "universal"
                              remote to work with my old Sony Trinitron.

                              Shane
                              --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "hastypete" <hastypete@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > The website tells me that my coupons have been sent, but I'm on week 3
                              > without getting them.
                              >
                              > Anyone else not get theirs yet? I have a flaky mailman and wonder if
                              > he just "lost" them.
                              >
                              > - peter
                              >
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