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Re: Slow Growth Cascade In Northeast Ohio

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  • pergion8
    My Cascade and Chinook are both in their 3rd year. The Centennial and Cluster are in their 2nd year. I have cones on all plants except the Cascade. It is
    Message 1 of 18 , Jul 19, 2013
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      My Cascade and Chinook are both in their 3rd year. The Centennial and Cluster are in their 2nd year. I have cones on all plants except the Cascade. It is still in the bur stage, with no cones developing so far. The Chinook is doing the best with a good quantity of cones. I can understand smaller overall yields do to the lower amounts of sunlight, but their are quite a few burs, just no cones. Like it stalled out. Maybe the plant needs a few more years. I honestly don't know.

      --- In Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com, James Altwies <jraltwies@...> wrote:
      >
      > 8 hrs during peak growth is minimum. You are seeing good development on other varieties in the same location? Maybe I missed it but how old are these plants, what is your nutrient management scheme, and are they irrigated?
      >
      >
    • pergion8
      As of July 24th there is still no cone development on the Cascade plant. It is still at the Burr stage. I will try and upload a few pictures of one of the
      Message 2 of 18 , Jul 25, 2013
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        As of July 24th there is still no cone development on the Cascade plant.  It is still at the Burr stage.  I will try and upload a few pictures of one of the Cascade leaves to illustrate a potential nutrition problem.  From what I have read so far, it could be a nitrogen and/or potassium deficiency.  Since this discovery I have treated the hills with more composted manure, Miracle Grow General Plant food, and Muriate of potash in an effort to help the plants.  It may be a little too late to do much this year.  Yes, the other plants are exhibiting similar signs, so I have treated all the hills in the same manner.  Am I on the right track?

         

         

        --- In Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com, "pergion8" wrote:
        >
        >
        > Last year was really bad for my hops, the dry weather and insects really shortened the year. This year I have been applying the insecticide Natria Insect, Disease, and Mite Control From Bayer. I have also given each hop a systemic insect control dose a month back. I may have some nutrient difficiencies and will try and give them more via more manure & compost. Do Cascade normally take this long to develope cones from the burs?
        >
      • James Altwies
        this is not a nutrient issue.  We have plants in burr in WI right now including Cascade.  If you look at the growing degree days in your area you might find
        Message 3 of 18 , Jul 26, 2013
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          this is not a nutrient issue.  We have plants in burr in WI right now including Cascade.  If you look at the growing degree days in your area you might find that you are behind the normal trend which would account for the slow growth.  Some varieties are nto as sensitive to the GDD differential.  


          From: pergion8 <pergion8@...>
          To: Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 12:47 PM
          Subject: [Grow-Hops] Re: Slow Growth Cascade In Northeast Ohio

           
          As of July 24th there is still no cone development on the Cascade plant.  It is still at the Burr stage.  I will try and upload a few pictures of one of the Cascade leaves to illustrate a potential nutrition problem.  From what I have read so far, it could be a nitrogen and/or potassium deficiency.  Since this discovery I have treated the hills with more composted manure, Miracle Grow General Plant food, and Muriate of potash in an effort to help the plants.  It may be a little too late to do much this year.  Yes, the other plants are exhibiting similar signs, so I have treated all the hills in the same manner.  Am I on the right track?
           
           
          --- In Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com, "pergion8" wrote:
          >
          >
          > Last year was really bad for my hops, the dry weather and insects really shortened the year. This year I have been applying the insecticide Natria Insect, Disease, and Mite Control From Bayer. I have also given each hop a systemic insect control dose a month back. I may have some nutrient difficiencies and will try and give them more via more manure & compost. Do Cascade normally take this long to develope cones from the burs?
          >


        • James Altwies
          I should say not likely a nutrient issue  :) ________________________________ From: pergion8 To: Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com Sent:
          Message 4 of 18 , Jul 26, 2013
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            I should say "not likely" a nutrient issue  :)



            From: pergion8 <pergion8@...>
            To: Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 12:47 PM
            Subject: [Grow-Hops] Re: Slow Growth Cascade In Northeast Ohio

             
            As of July 24th there is still no cone development on the Cascade plant.  It is still at the Burr stage.  I will try and upload a few pictures of one of the Cascade leaves to illustrate a potential nutrition problem.  From what I have read so far, it could be a nitrogen and/or potassium deficiency.  Since this discovery I have treated the hills with more composted manure, Miracle Grow General Plant food, and Muriate of potash in an effort to help the plants.  It may be a little too late to do much this year.  Yes, the other plants are exhibiting similar signs, so I have treated all the hills in the same manner.  Am I on the right track?
             
             
            --- In Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com, "pergion8" wrote:
            >
            >
            > Last year was really bad for my hops, the dry weather and insects really shortened the year. This year I have been applying the insecticide Natria Insect, Disease, and Mite Control From Bayer. I have also given each hop a systemic insect control dose a month back. I may have some nutrient difficiencies and will try and give them more via more manure & compost. Do Cascade normally take this long to develope cones from the burs?
            >


          • gaviga1
            I can add to what James said. I live in Iowa a mile north of I80. Most of my hops are still in the burring stage. My Centennials are the only ones that had
            Message 5 of 18 , Jul 27, 2013
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              I can add to what James said. I live in Iowa a mile north of I80. Most of my hops are still in the burring stage. My Centennials are the only ones that had mature cones, and they are still at least 2-3 weeks from harvest. The heavy amounts of rain we had here earlier this spring and summer seems to have slowed this year's growth cycle. Considering that, it is still pretty early for many varieties so I would not panic.

              Here is a link to a really good resource on hop varieties and their characteristics:
              http://www.freshops.com/hops/usda-named-hop-variety-descriptions.

              It is on the Freshops site, but the information comes from the Oregon State University High Alpha Acid Breeding Program. There is a lot of good info on each variety but of special interest to this discussion is the "Maturity" category. Keep in mind that this is relative based on current year's growing season but, for example, Cascade are listed as medium to medium late whereas Centennial is listed as Early to Medium Early. In my experience for my hop yard, my Centennials tend to be early and my Cascades tend to be Medium Late bordering on Late.. I gauge my expected harvest times on when my Centennials are ready as everything follows them. You should be able to do the same after a few cycles/seasons/harvests.

              Cheers,
              Gary

              --- In Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com, James Altwies <jraltwies@...> wrote:
              >
              > I should say "not likely" a nutrient issue  :)
              >
              >
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: pergion8 <pergion8@...>
              > To: Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 12:47 PM
              > Subject: [Grow-Hops] Re: Slow Growth Cascade In Northeast Ohio
              >
              >
              >
              >  
              > As of July 24th there is still no cone development on the Cascade plant.  It is still at the Burr stage.  I will try and upload a few pictures of one of the Cascade leaves to illustrate a potential nutrition problem.  From what I have read so far, it could be a nitrogen and/or potassium deficiency.  Since this discovery I have treated the hills with more composted manure, Miracle Grow General Plant food, and Muriate of potash in an effort to help the plants.  It may be a little too late to do much this year.  Yes, the other plants are exhibiting similar signs, so I have treated all the hills in the same manner.  Am I on the right track?
              >  
              >  --- In Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com, "pergion8" wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > Last year was really bad for my hops, the dry weather and insects really shortened the year. This year I have been applying the insecticide Natria Insect, Disease, and Mite Control From Bayer. I have also given each hop a systemic insect control dose a month back. I may have some nutrient difficiencies and will try and give them more via more manure & compost. Do Cascade normally take this long to develope cones from the burs?
              > >
              >
            • mars14481
              I d say it is most likely a nutrient/soil issue. I ve got a third year cascade just a bit northeast of you, in Buffalo, and it is thriving right now. The
              Message 6 of 18 , Jul 28, 2013
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                I'd say it is most likely a nutrient/soil issue. I've got a third year cascade just a bit northeast of you, in Buffalo, and it is thriving right now. The weather has been perfect for hop growing - hot sunny days with a hearty rain every few - and I imagine it has been the same in NE Ohio. Mine has slowed with these recent cold nights and excessive rain, but still has plenty of cone formation. Is your cascade in a mound with good drainage?

                It might be a lost cause this year, but I'd get a soil test (do you guys have Cornell Cooperative Extensions there?) and continue to work in compost deep into the soil around the roots.

                Marshall

                --- In Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com, "gaviga1" <gaviga1@...> wrote:
                >
                > I can add to what James said. I live in Iowa a mile north of I80. Most of my hops are still in the burring stage. My Centennials are the only ones that had mature cones, and they are still at least 2-3 weeks from harvest. The heavy amounts of rain we had here earlier this spring and summer seems to have slowed this year's growth cycle. Considering that, it is still pretty early for many varieties so I would not panic.
                >
                > Here is a link to a really good resource on hop varieties and their characteristics:
                > http://www.freshops.com/hops/usda-named-hop-variety-descriptions.
                >
                >
              • Cal Frye
                ... That would be the Ohio State Cooperative Extension Service, of course ;-) Regards, -- Cal Frye, www.calfrye.com, www.obeer.org Oberlin (Ohio) Area
                Message 7 of 18 , Jul 29, 2013
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                  mars14481 wrote:
                  > It might be a lost cause this year, but I'd get a soil test (do you guys
                  > have Cornell Cooperative Extensions there?)

                  That would be the Ohio State Cooperative Extension Service, of course ;-)

                  Regards,
                  -- Cal Frye, www.calfrye.com, www.obeer.org
                  Oberlin (Ohio) Area Fermentation Specialists, OAFS [at] obeer [dot] org

                  "He was a wise man who invented beer." --Plato.
                • pergion8
                  As far as I can tell, all the hills are well mounded and the crowns should be high enough up from our clay soil to allow adequate drainage. I tried to take
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jul 30, 2013
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                    As far as I can tell, all the hills are well mounded and the crowns should be high enough up from our clay soil to allow adequate drainage.  I tried to take that into account when I planted them.  I have placed composted manure on the hills three times so far this season.  I will continue to monitor the plants/situation and I will contact the Ohio State Cooperative Extension Service and see what my next steps should be.  I appreciate everyone's help and advice on this issue.  I really want to get these plants back in good health.  I want to eventually add more hills, but I need to get these 4 healthy and happy first.

                    Thanks again everyone, 

                    Dave

                     


                    --- In Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com, Cal Frye wrote:
                    >
                    > mars14481 wrote:
                    > > It might be a lost cause this year, but I'd get a soil test (do you guys
                    > > have Cornell Cooperative Extensions there?)
                    >
                    > That would be the Ohio State Cooperative Extension Service, of course ;-)
                    >
                    > Regards,
                    > -- Cal Frye, www.calfrye.com, www.obeer.org
                    > Oberlin (Ohio) Area Fermentation Specialists, OAFS [at] obeer [dot] org
                    >
                    > "He was a wise man who invented beer." --Plato.
                    >

                  • James Altwies
                    Where in OH are you? We have a new grower staring soon about 1hr west nwest of Columbus. Sent from my iPod
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jul 30, 2013
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                      Where in OH are you?  We have a new grower staring soon about 1hr west nwest of Columbus. 

                      Sent from my iPod

                      On Jul 30, 2013, at 1:07 PM, "pergion8" <pergion8@...> wrote:

                       

                      As far as I can tell, all the hills are well mounded and the crowns should be high enough up from our clay soil to allow adequate drainage.  I tried to take that into account when I planted them.  I have placed composted manure on the hills three times so far this season.  I will continue to monitor the plants/situation and I will contact the Ohio State Cooperative Extension Service and see what my next steps should be.  I appreciate everyone's help and advice on this issue.  I really want to get these plants back in good health.  I want to eventually add more hills, but I need to get these 4 healthy and happy first.

                      Thanks again everyone, 

                      Dave

                       


                      --- In Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com, Cal Frye wrote:
                      >
                      > mars14481 wrote:
                      > > It might be a lost cause this year, but I'd get a soil test (do you guys
                      > > have Cornell Cooperative Extensions there?)
                      >
                      > That would be the Ohio State Cooperative Extension Service, of course ;-)
                      >
                      > Regards,
                      > -- Cal Frye, www.calfrye.com, www.obeer.org
                      > Oberlin (Ohio) Area Fermentation Specialists, OAFS [at] obeer [dot] org
                      >
                      > "He was a wise man who invented beer." --Plato.
                      >

                    • Larry Bump
                      ... Huh, I am 1 hour nw of Columbus. I still don t have any hops, though. -- Larry Bump Just like it says up in the From line
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jul 30, 2013
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                        On 7/30/2013 11:21 PM, James Altwies wrote:
                        Where in OH are you?  We have a new grower staring soon about 1hr west nwest of Columbus.

                        Huh, I am 1 hour nw of Columbus.
                        I still don't have any hops, though.


                        -- 
                        Larry Bump
                        Just like it says up in the "From" line
                      • pergion8
                        I am located in Medina County, the next county south of Cuyahoga (Cleveland).
                        Message 11 of 18 , Aug 1, 2013
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                          I am located in Medina County, the next county south of Cuyahoga (Cleveland).


                          --- In Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com, James Altwies <jraltwies@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Where in OH are you? We have a new grower staring soon about 1hr west nwest of Columbus.
                          >
                          > Sent from my iPod
                          >
                          > On Jul 30, 2013, at 1:07 PM, "pergion8" <pergion8@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > As far as I can tell, all the hills are well mounded and the crowns should be high enough up from our clay soil to allow adequate drainage. I tried to take that into account when I planted them. I have placed composted manure on the hills three times so far this season. I will continue to monitor the plants/situation and I will contact the Ohio State Cooperative Extension Service and see what my next steps should be. I appreciate everyone's help and advice on this issue. I really want to get these plants back in good health. I want to eventually add more hills, but I need to get these 4 healthy and happy first.
                          > >
                          > > Thanks again everyone,
                          > >
                          > > Dave
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- In Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com, Cal Frye wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > mars14481 wrote:
                          > > > > It might be a lost cause this year, but I'd get a soil test (do you guys
                          > > > > have Cornell Cooperative Extensions there?)
                          > > >
                          > > > That would be the Ohio State Cooperative Extension Service, of course ;-)
                          > > >
                          > > > Regards,
                          > > > -- Cal Frye, www.calfrye.com, www.obeer.org
                          > > > Oberlin (Ohio) Area Fermentation Specialists, OAFS [at] obeer [dot] org
                          > > >
                          > > > "He was a wise man who invented beer." --Plato.
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
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