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Using dish washing rinse water on hops?

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  • Thomas
    Greetings, We here in South Australia are a bit water challenged and I am planning on setting up a water tank with timer tap to water my plants automatically.
    Message 1 of 17 , Dec 6, 2010
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      Greetings,

      We here in South Australia are a bit water challenged and I am
      planning on setting up a water tank with timer tap to water my
      plants automatically.

      Besides using the garden water tap to put water into the tank,
      I was wondering whether it would be okay to save the water used
      for rinsing when washing dishes and add to the tank for watering
      my hops? I guess this water would have low levels of detergent
      and maybe some oils. And yes, I will save the first couple of
      litres from the shower when waiting for it to warm up to add to
      the tank.

      Regards,
      Tom.
    • James Altwies
      Tom, As long as there are no surfactants in that water (i.e. soap) you should be just fine. I would add a small amount of bleach to kill off any pathogens if
      Message 2 of 17 , Dec 6, 2010
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        Tom,
        As long as there are no surfactants in that water (i.e. soap) you should be just fine.  I would add a small amount of bleach to kill off any pathogens if you're storing the water for any length of time...

        Kindly,
        James



        From: Thomas <fungk333@...>
        To: Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Mon, December 6, 2010 7:16:44 AM
        Subject: [Grow-Hops] Using dish washing rinse water on hops?

         

        Greetings,

        We here in South Australia are a bit water challenged and I am
        planning on setting up a water tank with timer tap to water my
        plants automatically.

        Besides using the garden water tap to put water into the tank,
        I was wondering whether it would be okay to save the water used
        for rinsing when washing dishes and add to the tank for watering
        my hops? I guess this water would have low levels of detergent
        and maybe some oils. And yes, I will save the first couple of
        litres from the shower when waiting for it to warm up to add to
        the tank.

        Regards,
        Tom.

      • Thomas Fung
        Thank you for the response James, There is likely to be low levels of detergent in the rinse water - would this not be surfactant? Regards, Tom. ... From:
        Message 3 of 17 , Dec 7, 2010
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          Thank you for the response James,

          There is likely to be low levels of detergent in the rinse water - would this
          not be surfactant?

          Regards,
          Tom.

          --- On Mon, 6/12/10, James Altwies <jraltwies@...> wrote:

          From: James Altwies <jraltwies@...>
          Subject: Re: [Grow-Hops] Using dish washing rinse water on hops?
          To: Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com
          Received: Monday, 6 December, 2010, 10:22 PM

           

          Tom,
          As long as there are no surfactants in that water (i.e. soap) you should be just fine.  I would add a small amount of bleach to kill off any pathogens if you're storing the water for any length of time...

          Kindly,
          James



          From: Thomas <fungk333@...>
          To: Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Mon, December 6, 2010 7:16:44 AM
          Subject: [Grow-Hops] Using dish washing rinse water on hops?

           

          Greetings,

          We here in South Australia are a bit water challenged and I am
          planning on setting up a water tank with timer tap to water my
          plants automatically.

          Besides using the garden water tap to put water into the tank,
          I was wondering whether it would be okay to save the water used
          for rinsing when washing dishes and add to the tank for watering
          my hops? I guess this water would have low levels of detergent
          and maybe some oils. And yes, I will save the first couple of
          litres from the shower when waiting for it to warm up to add to
          the tank.

          Regards,
          Tom.


           
        • Ray Bush
          Use a plastic 55 gallon barrel or filled wooden box to create a biofilter, for fill wood chips will work best because they can be composted in the long run.
          Message 4 of 17 , Dec 7, 2010
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            Use a plastic 55 gallon barrel or filled wooden box to create a biofilter, for fill wood chips will work best because they can be composted in the long run.

            heres a link about one such system, there are plans out on the net for many different kinds

            http://greywateraction.org/content/woodchip-biofilter-kitchen-sink-wetlands

            You don't want the soap and grease residue on your hop ground ...

            --Ray


            From: Thomas <fungk333@...>
            To: Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Mon, December 6, 2010 8:16:44 AM
            Subject: [Grow-Hops] Using dish washing rinse water on hops?

            Greetings,

            We here in South Australia are a bit water challenged and I am
            planning on setting up a water tank with timer tap to water my
            plants automatically.

            Besides using the garden water tap to put water into the tank,
            I was wondering whether it would be okay to save the water used
            for rinsing when washing dishes and add to the tank for watering
            my hops? I guess this water would have low levels of detergent
            and maybe some oils.  And yes, I will save the first couple of
            litres from the shower when waiting for it to warm up to add to
            the tank.

            Regards,
            Tom.



            ------------------------------------

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          • doubtfire
            This is a great link. I m intending to do this at my place, soon....Anybody know about pumping the saved water up a hill for storage and reuse.....Links?
            Message 5 of 17 , Dec 9, 2010
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              This is a great link. I'm intending to do this at my place, soon....Anybody know about pumping the 'saved' water up a hill for storage and reuse.....Links?
              Thanks

              --- On Tue, 12/7/10, Ray Bush <c8_h10_n4_o2@...> wrote:

              From: Ray Bush <c8_h10_n4_o2@...>
              Subject: Re: [Grow-Hops] Using dish washing rinse water on hops?
              To: Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Tuesday, December 7, 2010, 10:24 PM

               

              Use a plastic 55 gallon barrel or filled wooden box to create a biofilter, for fill wood chips will work best because they can be composted in the long run.

              heres a link about one such system, there are plans out on the net for many different kinds

              http://greywateraction.org/content/woodchip-biofilter-kitchen-sink-wetlands

              You don't want the soap and grease residue on your hop ground ...

              --Ray


              From: Thomas <fungk333@...>
              To: Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Mon, December 6, 2010 8:16:44 AM
              Subject: [Grow-Hops] Using dish washing rinse water on hops?

              Greetings,

              We here in South Australia are a bit water challenged and I am
              planning on setting up a water tank with timer tap to water my
              plants automatically.

              Besides using the garden water tap to put water into the tank,
              I was wondering whether it would be okay to save the water used
              for rinsing when washing dishes and add to the tank for watering
              my hops? I guess this water would have low levels of detergent
              and maybe some oils.  And yes, I will save the first couple of
              litres from the shower when waiting for it to warm up to add to
              the tank.

              Regards,
              Tom.



              ------------------------------------

              Please visit these other related groups:
              http://tinyurl.com/68h7hp -- "Zymurgy" for General Brewing Discussion
              http://tinyurl.com/axuol -- exclusively about "BrewingEquipment"
              http://tinyurl.com/yjlnyv -- Join the 'Homebrewers' team to Help Cure DiseaseYahoo! Groups Links

              <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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            • James Altwies
              depends on how much pumping you need to do and how head you have to pump against.  Remember, you need about 28 inches of head to crease 1 psi of pressure for
              Message 6 of 17 , Dec 9, 2010
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                depends on how much pumping you need to do and how head you have to pump against.  Remember, you need about 28 inches of head to crease 1 psi of pressure for irrigation...


                From: doubtfire <tunnelrider@...>
                To: Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thu, December 9, 2010 10:36:25 AM
                Subject: Re: [Grow-Hops] Using dish washing rinse water on hops?

                 

                This is a great link. I'm intending to do this at my place, soon....Anybody know about pumping the 'saved' water up a hill for storage and reuse.....Links?
                Thanks

                --- On Tue, 12/7/10, Ray Bush <c8_h10_n4_o2@...> wrote:

                From: Ray Bush <c8_h10_n4_o2@...>
                Subject: Re: [Grow-Hops] Using dish washing rinse water on hops?
                To: Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Tuesday, December 7, 2010, 10:24 PM

                 

                Use a plastic 55 gallon barrel or filled wooden box to create a biofilter, for fill wood chips will work best because they can be composted in the long run.

                heres a link about one such system, there are plans out on the net for many different kinds

                http://greywateraction.org/content/woodchip-biofilter-kitchen-sink-wetlands

                You don't want the soap and grease residue on your hop ground ...

                --Ray


                From: Thomas <fungk333@...>
                To: Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Mon, December 6, 2010 8:16:44 AM
                Subject: [Grow-Hops] Using dish washing rinse water on hops?

                Greetings,

                We here in South Australia are a bit water challenged and I am
                planning on setting up a water tank with timer tap to water my
                plants automatically.

                Besides using the garden water tap to put water into the tank,
                I was wondering whether it would be okay to save the water used
                for rinsing when washing dishes and add to the tank for watering
                my hops? I guess this water would have low levels of detergent
                and maybe some oils.  And yes, I will save the first couple of
                litres from the shower when waiting for it to warm up to add to
                the tank.

                Regards,
                Tom.



                ------------------------------------

                Please visit these other related groups:
                http://tinyurl.com/68h7hp -- "Zymurgy" for General Brewing Discussion
                http://tinyurl.com/axuol -- exclusively about "BrewingEquipment"
                http://tinyurl.com/yjlnyv -- Join the 'Homebrewers' team to Help Cure DiseaseYahoo! Groups Links

                <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Grow-Hops/

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              • Martin Brungard
                I m surprised to see the recommendation for keeping soap off of hops. I ve used insecticidal soap and regular liquid dishwashing soap as a control measure for
                Message 7 of 17 , Dec 10, 2010
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                  I'm surprised to see the recommendation for keeping soap off of hops.  I've used insecticidal soap and regular liquid dishwashing soap as a control measure for mites on other plants.  Is it going to hurt hops?

                  Martin Brungard 
                  Carmel, IN 
                   



                • doubtfire
                  There you go James. Straight away with something  challenging.....What s head when discussing pumping? I ve got to run about 30 flat then 70 up a grade of
                  Message 8 of 17 , Dec 10, 2010
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                    There you go James. Straight away with something  challenging.....What's 'head' when discussing pumping?
                    I've got to run about 30' flat then 70' up a grade of roughly 35 degrees. I was planning to store the water at the top of the slope and gravity feed as needed.
                    JJ

                    --- On Thu, 12/9/10, James Altwies <jraltwies@...> wrote:

                    From: James Altwies <jraltwies@...>
                    Subject: Re: [Grow-Hops] Using dish washing rinse water on hops?
                    To: Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Thursday, December 9, 2010, 11:52 AM

                     

                    depends on how much pumping you need to do and how head you have to pump against.  Remember, you need about 28 inches of head to crease 1 psi of pressure for irrigation...


                    From: doubtfire <tunnelrider@...>
                    To: Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thu, December 9, 2010 10:36:25 AM
                    Subject: Re: [Grow-Hops] Using dish washing rinse water on hops?

                     

                    This is a great link. I'm intending to do this at my place, soon....Anybody know about pumping the 'saved' water up a hill for storage and reuse.....Links?
                    Thanks

                    --- On Tue, 12/7/10, Ray Bush <c8_h10_n4_o2@...> wrote:

                    From: Ray Bush <c8_h10_n4_o2@...>
                    Subject: Re: [Grow-Hops] Using dish washing rinse water on hops?
                    To: Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Tuesday, December 7, 2010, 10:24 PM

                     

                    Use a plastic 55 gallon barrel or filled wooden box to create a biofilter, for fill wood chips will work best because they can be composted in the long run.

                    heres a link about one such system, there are plans out on the net for many different kinds

                    http://greywateraction.org/content/woodchip-biofilter-kitchen-sink-wetlands

                    You don't want the soap and grease residue on your hop ground ...

                    --Ray


                    From: Thomas <fungk333@...>
                    To: Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Mon, December 6, 2010 8:16:44 AM
                    Subject: [Grow-Hops] Using dish washing rinse water on hops?

                    Greetings,

                    We here in South Australia are a bit water challenged and I am
                    planning on setting up a water tank with timer tap to water my
                    plants automatically.

                    Besides using the garden water tap to put water into the tank,
                    I was wondering whether it would be okay to save the water used
                    for rinsing when washing dishes and add to the tank for watering
                    my hops? I guess this water would have low levels of detergent
                    and maybe some oils.  And yes, I will save the first couple of
                    litres from the shower when waiting for it to warm up to add to
                    the tank.

                    Regards,
                    Tom.



                    ------------------------------------

                    Please visit these other related groups:
                    http://tinyurl.com/68h7hp -- "Zymurgy" for General Brewing Discussion
                    http://tinyurl.com/axuol -- exclusively about "BrewingEquipment"
                    http://tinyurl.com/yjlnyv -- Join the 'Homebrewers' team to Help Cure DiseaseYahoo! Groups Links

                    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Grow-Hops/

                    <*> Your email settings:
                        Individual Email | Traditional

                    <*> To change settings online go to:
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                        (Yahoo! ID required)

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                        Grow-Hops-digest@yahoogroups.com
                        Grow-Hops-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

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                    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




                  • James Altwies
                    head is the term referring to the vertical height we have to pump against.  all pumps will have a rating that displays how much water (liquid) can be pumped
                    Message 9 of 17 , Dec 10, 2010
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                      head is the term referring to the vertical height we have to pump against.  all pumps will have a rating that displays how much water (liquid) can be pumped per unit time at any given head.  For instance, a pump should list the gallons/minute or gallons/hour (or liters for our X-US friends) at a given head, or discharge height.  Sometimes it is a table, or other times is can be displayed on a chart (called a pump curve).
                       
                      Other factors contribute to "head", like the friction from the water moving through pipe, around corners, through fittings, etc.  We add up all of the "head loss" from our system, including the height we have to pump against gravity, to determine how to size the pump.  If it is a simple matter of moving water in a straight line from a tank to a higher elevation, we need to know the change in height and how long and what diameter the pipe is that we'll be pumping through.  Only then can we size the pump correctly. 


                      From: doubtfire <tunnelrider@...>
                      To: Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Fri, December 10, 2010 9:31:21 AM
                      Subject: Re: [Grow-Hops] Using dish washing rinse water on hops?

                       

                      There you go James. Straight away with something  challenging.....What's 'head' when discussing pumping?
                      I've got to run about 30' flat then 70' up a grade of roughly 35 degrees. I was planning to store the water at the top of the slope and gravity feed as needed.
                      JJ

                      --- On Thu, 12/9/10, James Altwies <jraltwies@...> wrote:

                      From: James Altwies <jraltwies@...>
                      Subject: Re: [Grow-Hops] Using dish washing rinse water on hops?
                      To: Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Thursday, December 9, 2010, 11:52 AM

                       

                      depends on how much pumping you need to do and how head you have to pump against.  Remember, you need about 28 inches of head to crease 1 psi of pressure for irrigation...


                      From: doubtfire <tunnelrider@...>
                      To: Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thu, December 9, 2010 10:36:25 AM
                      Subject: Re: [Grow-Hops] Using dish washing rinse water on hops?

                       

                      This is a great link. I'm intending to do this at my place, soon....Anybody know about pumping the 'saved' water up a hill for storage and reuse.....Links?
                      Thanks

                      --- On Tue, 12/7/10, Ray Bush <c8_h10_n4_o2@...> wrote:

                      From: Ray Bush <c8_h10_n4_o2@...>
                      Subject: Re: [Grow-Hops] Using dish washing rinse water on hops?
                      To: Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Tuesday, December 7, 2010, 10:24 PM

                       

                      Use a plastic 55 gallon barrel or filled wooden box to create a biofilter, for fill wood chips will work best because they can be composted in the long run.

                      heres a link about one such system, there are plans out on the net for many different kinds

                      http://greywateraction.org/content/woodchip-biofilter-kitchen-sink-wetlands

                      You don't want the soap and grease residue on your hop ground ...

                      --Ray


                      From: Thomas <fungk333@...>
                      To: Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Mon, December 6, 2010 8:16:44 AM
                      Subject: [Grow-Hops] Using dish washing rinse water on hops?

                      Greetings,

                      We here in South Australia are a bit water challenged and I am
                      planning on setting up a water tank with timer tap to water my
                      plants automatically.

                      Besides using the garden water tap to put water into the tank,
                      I was wondering whether it would be okay to save the water used
                      for rinsing when washing dishes and add to the tank for watering
                      my hops? I guess this water would have low levels of detergent
                      and maybe some oils.  And yes, I will save the first couple of
                      litres from the shower when waiting for it to warm up to add to
                      the tank.

                      Regards,
                      Tom.



                      ------------------------------------

                      Please visit these other related groups:
                      http://tinyurl.com/68h7hp -- "Zymurgy" for General Brewing Discussion
                      http://tinyurl.com/axuol -- exclusively about "BrewingEquipment"
                      http://tinyurl.com/yjlnyv -- Join the 'Homebrewers' team to Help Cure DiseaseYahoo! Groups Links

                      <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Grow-Hops/

                      <*> Your email settings:
                          Individual Email | Traditional

                      <*> To change settings online go to:
                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Grow-Hops/join
                          (Yahoo! ID required)

                      <*> To change settings via email:
                          Grow-Hops-digest@yahoogroups.com
                          Grow-Hops-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

                      <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          Grow-Hops-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                      <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




                    • Ray Bush
                      It wouldn t take long for the greywater salts content to build up to levels harmfull to the soil health. In small enough amounts the soap and grease is
                      Message 10 of 17 , Dec 11, 2010
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                        It wouldn't take long for the greywater salts content to build up to levels harmfull to the soil health.  In small enough amounts the soap and grease is  biodegradable. In larger amounts it could change the soil ph and clog the soil up.  Not all soaps are created equal.

                        Theres a ton of info out there on the greywater issues ... heres a decent page with good summary

                        http://www.umassgreeninfo.org/fact_sheets/plant_culture/gray_water_for_gardens.html

                        --Ray


                        From: Martin Brungard <mabrungard@...>
                        To: grow-hops@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Fri, December 10, 2010 8:40:40 AM
                        Subject: RE: [Grow-Hops] Using dish washing rinse water on hops?



                        I'm surprised to see the recommendation for keeping soap off of hops.  I've used insecticidal soap and regular liquid dishwashing soap as a control measure for mites on other plants.  Is it going to hurt hops?

                        Martin Brungard 
                        Carmel, IN 
                         






                      • t2000kwt
                        Would it be a safe assumption that if you use the same size pipe or tubing as the discharge outlet of the pump, and if you only used a few 45 degree fittings
                        Message 11 of 17 , Dec 11, 2010
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                          Would it be a safe assumption that if you use the same size pipe or tubing as the discharge outlet of the pump, and if you only used a few 45 degree fittings that were full-flow, that you could just use the information supplied with the pump, making sure that the pump specs exceed your requirements by perhaps 10-20%?

                          Do you have any good references (maybe online) for those who are planning a big irrigation system that uses pumps to push water vertically?

                          Most home growers may not be skilled in calculating head and flow rate, and they probably couldn't afford an engineer to lay out their plans for them. You sound like a knowledgeable do-it-yourselfer who can figure these things out by either experimentation or finding good references to work with.

                          I realize that if there are a lot of bends and/or fittings, that the pipe resistance would become significant (and a good reason to try to avoid these).

                          Donald


                          --- In Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com, James Altwies <jraltwies@...> wrote:

                          > Other factors contribute to "head", like the friction from the water moving
                          > through pipe, around corners, through fittings, etc.  We add up all of the "head
                          > loss" from our system, including the height we have to pump against gravity, to
                          > determine how to size the pump.  If it is a simple matter of moving water in a
                          > straight line from a tank to a higher elevation, we need to know the change in
                          > height and how long and what diameter the pipe is that we'll be pumping
                          > through.  Only then can we size the pump correctly. 
                          >
                          >
                        • James Altwies
                          We routinely design irrigation systems for our 1-10 acre hop growers in our Charter Grower Program. The simplest pumping system would be a submersible sump
                          Message 12 of 17 , Dec 11, 2010
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                            We routinely design irrigation systems for our 1-10 acre hop growers in our Charter Grower Program.  The simplest pumping system would be a submersible sump pump and the largest discharge pipe/hose that will fit the pump.  Since you're just moving bulk water from one container to another there isn't any issue with pressure control.  So calculate how much height you have to pump against and add 1ft of head for every 100 feet (gross rule of thumb).  For every fitting add 0.5ft of head.

                            Kindly,
                            James



                            From: t2000kwt <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
                            To: Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Sat, December 11, 2010 7:25:00 AM
                            Subject: [Grow-Hops] Re: Using dish washing rinse water on hops?

                             

                            Would it be a safe assumption that if you use the same size pipe or tubing as the discharge outlet of the pump, and if you only used a few 45 degree fittings that were full-flow, that you could just use the information supplied with the pump, making sure that the pump specs exceed your requirements by perhaps 10-20%?

                            Do you have any good references (maybe online) for those who are planning a big irrigation system that uses pumps to push water vertically?

                            Most home growers may not be skilled in calculating head and flow rate, and they probably couldn't afford an engineer to lay out their plans for them. You sound like a knowledgeable do-it-yourselfer who can figure these things out by either experimentation or finding good references to work with.

                            I realize that if there are a lot of bends and/or fittings, that the pipe resistance would become significant (and a good reason to try to avoid these).

                            Donald

                            --- In Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com, James Altwies <jraltwies@...> wrote:

                            > Other factors contribute to "head", like the friction from the water moving
                            > through pipe, around corners, through fittings, etc.  We add up all of the "head
                            > loss" from our system, including the height we have to pump against gravity, to
                            > determine how to size the pump.  If it is a simple matter of moving water in a
                            > straight line from a tank to a higher elevation, we need to know the change in
                            > height and how long and what diameter the pipe is that we'll be pumping
                            > through.  Only then can we size the pump correctly. 
                            >
                            >

                          • James Altwies
                            Soap isn t all Soap . and like was mentioned, greywater (used washwater) contains all sorts of dissolved stuff and should only be used on ornamentals. Most
                            Message 13 of 17 , Dec 11, 2010
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                              Soap isn't all "Soap".  and like was mentioned, greywater (used washwater) contains all sorts of dissolved stuff and should only be used on ornamentals.  Most hotels/resorts in dry areas use their greywater to irrigate landscape plants.

                              As for using soap for insecticidal purposes, there shouldn't be an issue...


                              From: Martin Brungard <mabrungard@...>
                              To: grow-hops@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Fri, December 10, 2010 7:40:40 AM
                              Subject: RE: [Grow-Hops] Using dish washing rinse water on hops?

                               

                              I'm surprised to see the recommendation for keeping soap off of hops.  I've used insecticidal soap and regular liquid dishwashing soap as a control measure for mites on other plants.  Is it going to hurt hops?

                              Martin Brungard 
                              Carmel, IN 
                               



                            • doubtfire
                              much thanks ... From: James Altwies Subject: Re: [Grow-Hops] Using dish washing rinse water on hops? To: Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com Date:
                              Message 14 of 17 , Dec 11, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                much thanks

                                --- On Fri, 12/10/10, James Altwies <jraltwies@...> wrote:

                                From: James Altwies <jraltwies@...>
                                Subject: Re: [Grow-Hops] Using dish washing rinse water on hops?
                                To: Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Friday, December 10, 2010, 11:00 AM

                                 
                                head is the term referring to the vertical height we have to pump against.  all pumps will have a rating that displays how much water (liquid) can be pumped per unit time at any given head.  For instance, a pump should list the gallons/minute or gallons/hour (or liters for our X-US friends) at a given head, or discharge height.  Sometimes it is a table, or other times is can be displayed on a chart (called a pump curve).
                                 
                                Other factors contribute to "head", like the friction from the water moving through pipe, around corners, through fittings, etc.  We add up all of the "head loss" from our system, including the height we have to pump against gravity, to determine how to size the pump.  If it is a simple matter of moving water in a straight line from a tank to a higher elevation, we need to know the change in height and how long and what diameter the pipe is that we'll be pumping through.  Only then can we size the pump correctly. 


                                From: doubtfire <tunnelrider@...>
                                To: Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Fri, December 10, 2010 9:31:21 AM
                                Subject: Re: [Grow-Hops] Using dish washing rinse water on hops?

                                 
                                There you go James. Straight away with something  challenging.....What's 'head' when discussing pumping?
                                I've got to run about 30' flat then 70' up a grade of roughly 35 degrees. I was planning to store the water at the top of the slope and gravity feed as needed.
                                JJ

                                --- On Thu, 12/9/10, James Altwies <jraltwies@...> wrote:

                                From: James Altwies <jraltwies@...>
                                Subject: Re: [Grow-Hops] Using dish washing rinse water on hops?
                                To: Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Thursday, December 9, 2010, 11:52 AM

                                 
                                depends on how much pumping you need to do and how head you have to pump against.  Remember, you need about 28 inches of head to crease 1 psi of pressure for irrigation...


                                From: doubtfire <tunnelrider@...>
                                To: Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Thu, December 9, 2010 10:36:25 AM
                                Subject: Re: [Grow-Hops] Using dish washing rinse water on hops?

                                 
                                This is a great link. I'm intending to do this at my place, soon....Anybody know about pumping the 'saved' water up a hill for storage and reuse.....Links?
                                Thanks

                                --- On Tue, 12/7/10, Ray Bush <c8_h10_n4_o2@...> wrote:

                                From: Ray Bush <c8_h10_n4_o2@...>
                                Subject: Re: [Grow-Hops] Using dish washing rinse water on hops?
                                To: Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Tuesday, December 7, 2010, 10:24 PM

                                 
                                Use a plastic 55 gallon barrel or filled wooden box to create a biofilter, for fill wood chips will work best because they can be composted in the long run.

                                heres a link about one such system, there are plans out on the net for many different kinds

                                http://greywateraction.org/content/woodchip-biofilter-kitchen-sink-wetlands

                                You don't want the soap and grease residue on your hop ground ...

                                --Ray


                                From: Thomas <fungk333@...>
                                To: Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Mon, December 6, 2010 8:16:44 AM
                                Subject: [Grow-Hops] Using dish washing rinse water on hops?

                                Greetings,

                                We here in South Australia are a bit water challenged and I am
                                planning on setting up a water tank with timer tap to water my
                                plants automatically.

                                Besides using the garden water tap to put water into the tank,
                                I was wondering whether it would be okay to save the water used
                                for rinsing when washing dishes and add to the tank for watering
                                my hops? I guess this water would have low levels of detergent
                                and maybe some oils.  And yes, I will save the first couple of
                                litres from the shower when waiting for it to warm up to add to
                                the tank.

                                Regards,
                                Tom.



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                              • doubtfire
                                Now that s good stuff. Any recommends on pumps (brands). I d love to stay American if there s a brand which is most reliable and at least in the ballpark
                                Message 15 of 17 , Dec 11, 2010
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Now that's good stuff.
                                  Any recommends on pumps (brands). I'd love to stay American if there's a brand which is most reliable and at least in the ballpark pricewise with whatever Chinese crap I'm sure is flooding the pump market.
                                  Thanks Again, JJ
                                  --- On Sat, 12/11/10, James Altwies <jraltwies@...> wrote:

                                  From: James Altwies <jraltwies@...>
                                  Subject: Re: [Grow-Hops] Re: Using dish washing rinse water on hops?
                                  To: Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Saturday, December 11, 2010, 7:37 AM

                                   
                                  We routinely design irrigation systems for our 1-10 acre hop growers in our Charter Grower Program.  The simplest pumping system would be a submersible sump pump and the largest discharge pipe/hose that will fit the pump.  Since you're just moving bulk water from one container to another there isn't any issue with pressure control.  So calculate how much height you have to pump against and add 1ft of head for every 100 feet (gross rule of thumb).  For every fitting add 0.5ft of head.

                                  Kindly,
                                  James



                                  From: t2000kwt <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
                                  To: Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Sat, December 11, 2010 7:25:00 AM
                                  Subject: [Grow-Hops] Re: Using dish washing rinse water on hops?

                                   
                                  Would it be a safe assumption that if you use the same size pipe or tubing as the discharge outlet of the pump, and if you only used a few 45 degree fittings that were full-flow, that you could just use the information supplied with the pump, making sure that the pump specs exceed your requirements by perhaps 10-20%?

                                  Do you have any good references (maybe online) for those who are planning a big irrigation system that uses pumps to push water vertically?

                                  Most home growers may not be skilled in calculating head and flow rate, and they probably couldn't afford an engineer to lay out their plans for them. You sound like a knowledgeable do-it-yourselfer who can figure these things out by either experimentation or finding good references to work with.

                                  I realize that if there are a lot of bends and/or fittings, that the pipe resistance would become significant (and a good reason to try to avoid these).

                                  Donald

                                  --- In Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com, James Altwies <jraltwies@...> wrote:

                                  > Other factors contribute to "head", like the friction from the water moving
                                  > through pipe, around corners, through fittings, etc.  We add up all of the "head
                                  > loss" from our system, including the height we have to pump against gravity, to
                                  > determine how to size the pump.  If it is a simple matter of moving water in a
                                  > straight line from a tank to a higher elevation, we need to know the change in
                                  > height and how long and what diameter the pipe is that we'll be pumping
                                  > through.  Only then can we size the pump correctly. 
                                  >
                                  >


                                • Maury
                                  I was just browsing around and found this site http://www.sumppumpsdirect.com/ You can shop or browse by brand, horsepower, gallons per hour etc, and find user
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Dec 11, 2010
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I was just browsing around and found this site

                                    http://www.sumppumpsdirect.com/

                                    You can shop or browse by brand, horsepower,
                                    gallons per hour etc, and find user reviews as well

                                    Maury


                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: doubtfire
                                    To: Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 1:27 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [Grow-Hops] Re: Using dish washing rinse water on hops?

                                    Now that's good stuff.
                                    Any recommends on pumps (brands). I'd love to stay American
                                    if there's a brand which is most reliable and at least in the ballpark
                                    pricewise
                                    with whatever Chinese crap I'm sure is flooding the pump market.
                                    Thanks Again, JJ
                                  • James Altwies
                                    look at Flotec...made in WI. I use all sorts of their pumps, from 1/8HP sump to 2.5HP irrigation pumps. http://www.flotecpump.com/
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Dec 11, 2010
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      look at Flotec...made in WI.  I use all sorts of their pumps, from 1/8HP sump to 2.5HP irrigation pumps.  http://www.flotecpump.com/



                                      From: doubtfire <tunnelrider@...>
                                      To: Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Sat, December 11, 2010 12:27:53 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [Grow-Hops] Re: Using dish washing rinse water on hops?

                                       

                                      Now that's good stuff.
                                      Any recommends on pumps (brands). I'd love to stay American if there's a brand which is most reliable and at least in the ballpark pricewise with whatever Chinese crap I'm sure is flooding the pump market.
                                      Thanks Again, JJ
                                      --- On Sat, 12/11/10, James Altwies <jraltwies@...> wrote:

                                      From: James Altwies <jraltwies@...>
                                      Subject: Re: [Grow-Hops] Re: Using dish washing rinse water on hops?
                                      To: Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com
                                      Date: Saturday, December 11, 2010, 7:37 AM

                                       
                                      We routinely design irrigation systems for our 1-10 acre hop growers in our Charter Grower Program.  The simplest pumping system would be a submersible sump pump and the largest discharge pipe/hose that will fit the pump.  Since you're just moving bulk water from one container to another there isn't any issue with pressure control.  So calculate how much height you have to pump against and add 1ft of head for every 100 feet (gross rule of thumb).  For every fitting add 0.5ft of head.

                                      Kindly,
                                      James



                                      From: t2000kwt <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
                                      To: Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Sat, December 11, 2010 7:25:00 AM
                                      Subject: [Grow-Hops] Re: Using dish washing rinse water on hops?

                                       
                                      Would it be a safe assumption that if you use the same size pipe or tubing as the discharge outlet of the pump, and if you only used a few 45 degree fittings that were full-flow, that you could just use the information supplied with the pump, making sure that the pump specs exceed your requirements by perhaps 10-20%?

                                      Do you have any good references (maybe online) for those who are planning a big irrigation system that uses pumps to push water vertically?

                                      Most home growers may not be skilled in calculating head and flow rate, and they probably couldn't afford an engineer to lay out their plans for them. You sound like a knowledgeable do-it-yourselfer who can figure these things out by either experimentation or finding good references to work with.

                                      I realize that if there are a lot of bends and/or fittings, that the pipe resistance would become significant (and a good reason to try to avoid these).

                                      Donald

                                      --- In Grow-Hops@yahoogroups.com, James Altwies <jraltwies@...> wrote:

                                      > Other factors contribute to "head", like the friction from the water moving
                                      > through pipe, around corners, through fittings, etc.  We add up all of the "head
                                      > loss" from our system, including the height we have to pump against gravity, to
                                      > determine how to size the pump.  If it is a simple matter of moving water in a
                                      > straight line from a tank to a higher elevation, we need to know the change in
                                      > height and how long and what diameter the pipe is that we'll be pumping
                                      > through.  Only then can we size the pump correctly. 
                                      >
                                      >


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