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Re: [GrizHFMinimill] Milling at less than 1770 Inches Per Minute....

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  • Mike Miller
    I took no offence at all. In fact, the more I learn about this hobby, the more I know I don t know. ;) The fact I ve already broken a bit in milling the
    Message 1 of 26 , Feb 5, 2007
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      I took no offence at all. In fact, the more I learn about this hobby, the more I know I don't know. ;)

      The fact I've already broken a bit in milling the baseplate for the Lathe's QCTP shows I still need improvements to my technique. That 'Hey, why are the chips blue?', compounded with recognizing why they're blue....then breaking the bit, surfing the web and realizing that blue chips ain't the best thing to make...

      Well, I've got NO problems with constructive criticism.



      On Feb 4, 2007, at 11:23 PM, Mike Gehring wrote:


           I'm glad you didn't take it personally about getting some books or other information, as it may have sounded gruff, but I truly was intending that you took the safety part of the danger of climb milling before something did happen. And it really happens fast when that bit can't bite no more. Somethings gotta give , and it just might be a flying broken bit or your workpiece. Part of the fun is learning, otherwise it would all be repetetive and boring.    Happy metalworking,   Mike G.


    • Ali Ahmad
      Message 2 of 26 , Feb 5, 2007
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        --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "Charles Owen" <cbowen@...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, Mike Miller <mike@> wrote:
        > > So when you guys talk about cutting lube, it's not flood cooling
        > like
        > > you see in automated milling stations, is it? Seems like lubrication
        > > would make a heckuva mess, or not be enough to keep stuff cool.
        >
        > I've found aluminum to be bad about wanting to stick to tools, even
        > regular 6061 alloy. I've found a bit of WD40 can make all of the
        > difference in the world. It makes it hard for the aluminum to stick
        > and helps it slide up the bit and out of the milling area. There are
        > also plenty of good aluminum cutting fluids, but WD40 is very cheap. I
        > spray from the can or from a cheap HF airbrush (gallons of WD40 are
        > much cheaper than the spray cans).
        >
        > Charles
        >
      • Ali Ahmad
        Aluminum is definately sticky.It can ball up while machining and even while sanding by hand.One of my prefered methods is use a soft paste like sticky wax that
        Message 3 of 26 , Feb 5, 2007
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          Aluminum is definately sticky.It can ball up while machining and
          even while sanding by hand.One of my prefered methods is use a soft
          paste like sticky wax that is made for machining.It is available from
          places like Grainger and comes in large tubes like the ones you would
          use in a grease gun.I apply the wax to the surface of the piece along
          the predicted tool path.The wax is great because it continues to
          reduce friction as tool cuts with out much of a need to apply more.It
          also doesnt make a huge mess.Another handy and of the shelf solution
          is to use Kerosene in a spray bottle or even with a brush in a can.It
          particularly good for sanding and polishing aluminum as it eliminates
          all that balling and tearing that a soft metal is prone to.Trying to
          get that high polish on that velocity stack for your chopper thats
          chucked into your lathe? Well kerosene might just be that magic.Just
          be sure to keep rinsing your fine sand paper in a coffee can with a
          little Kerosene to wash away the fine metal powder that will turn to
          paste as your piece get brighter and brighter. Kero will evaporate in
          a short period of time without leaving an oily residue to have to
          remove later.Works great for other metals too.Dont forget the box of
          nitrile gloves for hand finishing and watch those fingers carefully.

          Ali




          --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "Charles Owen" <cbowen@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, Mike Miller <mike@> wrote:
          > > So when you guys talk about cutting lube, it's not flood cooling
          > like
          > > you see in automated milling stations, is it? Seems like lubrication
          > > would make a heckuva mess, or not be enough to keep stuff cool.
          >
          > I've found aluminum to be bad about wanting to stick to tools, even
          > regular 6061 alloy. I've found a bit of WD40 can make all of the
          > difference in the world. It makes it hard for the aluminum to stick
          > and helps it slide up the bit and out of the milling area. There are
          > also plenty of good aluminum cutting fluids, but WD40 is very cheap. I
          > spray from the can or from a cheap HF airbrush (gallons of WD40 are
          > much cheaper than the spray cans).
          >
          > Charles
          >
        • Mike Miller
          That s some handy advice there! (As I look over at my ample supply of Kerosene for the heater)
          Message 4 of 26 , Feb 5, 2007
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            That's some handy advice there! (As I look over at my ample supply of
            Kerosene for the heater)


            On Feb 5, 2007, at 8:08 AM, Ali Ahmad wrote:

            > Aluminum is definately sticky.It can ball up while machining and
            > even while sanding by hand.One of my prefered methods is use a soft
            > paste like sticky wax that is made for machining.It is available from
            > places like Grainger and comes in large tubes like the ones you would
            > use in a grease gun.I apply the wax to the surface of the piece along
            > the predicted tool path.The wax is great because it continues to
            > reduce friction as tool cuts with out much of a need to apply more.It
            > also doesnt make a huge mess.Another handy and of the shelf solution
            > is to use Kerosene in a spray bottle or even with a brush in a can.It
            > particularly good for sanding and polishing aluminum as it eliminates
            > all that balling and tearing that a soft metal is prone to.Trying to
            > get that high polish on that velocity stack for your chopper thats
            > chucked into your lathe? Well kerosene might just be that magic.Just
            > be sure to keep rinsing your fine sand paper in a coffee can with a
            > little Kerosene to wash away the fine metal powder that will turn to
            > paste as your piece get brighter and brighter. Kero will evaporate in
            > a short period of time without leaving an oily residue to have to
            > remove later.Works great for other metals too.Dont forget the box of
            > nitrile gloves for hand finishing and watch those fingers carefully.
            >
            > Ali
          • gerry waclawiak
            It does vary considerably depending on the grade of Aluminium that you use but I always use a lubricant to work aluminium. Kerosene or Paraffin to any Brits
            Message 5 of 26 , Feb 5, 2007
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              It does vary considerably depending on the grade of Aluminium that you use
              but I always use a lubricant to work aluminium.

              Kerosene or Paraffin to any Brits works well and is dirt cheap but I cant
              stand the smell so I tend to use WD40 or one of the similar products which
              smell nicer. I tend to use them from an aerosol can as this makes them
              quick and easy to apply and since you are only using small quantities (for
              lube not for cooling) they still work out very economical.

              Gerry
              Leeds Uk


              >From: "Ali Ahmad" <scrappleking@...>
              >Reply-To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
              >To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: Milling at less than 1770 Inches Per
              >Minute....Machining Lubricants
              >Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 15:08:52 -0000
              >
              > Aluminum is definately sticky.It can ball up while machining and
              >even while sanding by hand.One of my prefered methods is use a soft
              >paste like sticky wax that is made for machining.It is available from
              >places like Grainger and comes in large tubes like the ones you would
              >use in a grease gun.I apply the wax to the surface of the piece along
              >the predicted tool path.The wax is great because it continues to
              >reduce friction as tool cuts with out much of a need to apply more.It
              >also doesnt make a huge mess.Another handy and of the shelf solution
              >is to use Kerosene in a spray bottle or even with a brush in a can.It
              >particularly good for sanding and polishing aluminum as it eliminates
              >all that balling and tearing that a soft metal is prone to.Trying to
              >get that high polish on that velocity stack for your chopper thats
              >chucked into your lathe? Well kerosene might just be that magic.Just
              >be sure to keep rinsing your fine sand paper in a coffee can with a
              >little Kerosene to wash away the fine metal powder that will turn to
              >paste as your piece get brighter and brighter. Kero will evaporate in
              >a short period of time without leaving an oily residue to have to
              >remove later.Works great for other metals too.Dont forget the box of
              >nitrile gloves for hand finishing and watch those fingers carefully.
              >
              >Ali
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >--- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "Charles Owen" <cbowen@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, Mike Miller <mike@> wrote:
              > > > So when you guys talk about cutting lube, it's not flood cooling
              > > like
              > > > you see in automated milling stations, is it? Seems like lubrication
              > > > would make a heckuva mess, or not be enough to keep stuff cool.
              > >
              > > I've found aluminum to be bad about wanting to stick to tools, even
              > > regular 6061 alloy. I've found a bit of WD40 can make all of the
              > > difference in the world. It makes it hard for the aluminum to stick
              > > and helps it slide up the bit and out of the milling area. There are
              > > also plenty of good aluminum cutting fluids, but WD40 is very cheap. I
              > > spray from the can or from a cheap HF airbrush (gallons of WD40 are
              > > much cheaper than the spray cans).
              > >
              > > Charles
              > >
              >
              >

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            • David Patterson
              http://www.itwfpg.com/rustlick/machining.html#soluble I been using this stuff for years, milling castings, which can be quite gummy. you can get it or similar
              Message 6 of 26 , Feb 5, 2007
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                http://www.itwfpg.com/rustlick/machining.html#soluble I been using this stuff for years, milling castings, which can be quite gummy. you can get it or similar at any machine supply. I mix it about 10water to 1oil with water so one gallon will last a long time an it's much cheaper that wd40. i put it in a spray bottle and use the stream setting.

                Ali Ahmad <scrappleking@...> wrote:
                --- In GrizHFMinimill@ yahoogroups. com, "Charles Owen" <cbowen@...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In GrizHFMinimill@ yahoogroups. com, Mike Miller <mike@> wrote:
                > > So when you guys talk about cutting lube, it's not flood cooling
                > like
                > > you see in automated milling stations, is it? Seems like lubrication
                > > would make a heckuva mess, or not be enough to keep stuff cool.
                >
                > I've found aluminum to be bad about wanting to stick to tools, even
                > regular 6061 alloy. I've found a bit of WD40 can make all of the
                > difference in the world. It makes it hard for the aluminum to stick
                > and helps it slide up the bit and out of the milling area. There are
                > also plenty of good aluminum cutting fluids, but WD40 is very cheap. I
                > spray from the can or from a cheap HF airbrush (gallons of WD40 are
                > much cheaper than the spray cans).
                >
                > Charles
                >



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              • figNoggle
                hi mike- mike g. gives some sound advice. someone else mentioned using wd40 for lube and it does work pretty well and contributes to nice finishes on
                Message 7 of 26 , Feb 5, 2007
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                  hi mike-

                  mike g. gives some sound advice. someone else mentioned using wd40 for
                  "lube" and it does work pretty well and contributes to nice finishes on
                  aluminum. we've been also testing out the tapmatic aquacut fluid and the
                  mobilemet s-122. the aquacut smells nice and it doesn't stain the table
                  and vise like the #1 gold product does. the mobilemet is inexpensive and
                  is water soluble.

                  re: videos. the ones by darrell holland are quite good to watch and can be
                  rented at smartflix.com just like the ones mike mentioned.

                  finally, after typing the original post, i realized that the description
                  of climb/conventional cutting could have been a bit ambigious. one way to
                  determine this is by watching where the chips "fly". in conventional cuts,
                  the chips fly in the direction of the cutter travel as they're cut and
                  "scooped" away from the workpiece.

                  hope this helps!
                  david


                  MetalWorkingFAQ.NET - Over 50 content sites! <http://www.metalworkingfaq.net>
                  CNC, Plans/Kits, 8x12 Lathe, Mini-Mill, How-Tos <http://www.fignoggle.com>
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                  On Sun, 4 Feb 2007, Mike Gehring wrote:

                  > Hi Mike, You can flood lube, but usually not necessary. But that aluminum you were talking about gooing is from not cutting because its welding itself to the bit(not true welding but you get the idea). You can buy special lubes for aluminum versus standard cutting oil for steel. (although in industry they get specific on certain steels, certain cutting fluid. with slitting saws, more lube Then again, some aluminum does not machine well and will goo no matter what. send it to the recycler.
                  > I can't recommend any one book of great value for milling, hopefully someone will chime in with a suggestion. I viewed the Swarfrat and Jose Rodriguez videos many times over. I would highly recommend both. The Swarfrat videos can be rented from the Swarfrat internet site and I believe they show some previews. Some of them sound too simple such as clamping. But those $40.00 clamp kits are well worth it and there IS a proper way to set them up for use on the mill table. A vise is fine, but not the be all end all. A workplate made to fit right on the mill table comes in mighty handy and in many instances makes using a vise actually the second or third best holding device. Vee blocks for cylinderical work 123 blocks and angle plates all become necessary at some point to properly position and secure the workpiece.I even often use "C" clamps to hold against say an angle plate or to quickly add one more stop block in front of the workpiece.
                  > Besides books and videos, I found that just browsing machine tool stores if there are any in your area and figuring out what some of those odd looking tools do can give inspiration for better ways to accomplish some tasks. Just knowing what's available . Some of the books by Guy Lauraurd Machinist Bedside reader are good, but not specific to milling but a lot of lathe ideas and use of many of the machinists accessories
                  > I'm glad you didn't take it personally about getting some books or other information, as it may have sounded gruff, but I truly was intending that you took the safety part of the danger of climb milling before something did happen. And it really happens fast when that bit can't bite no more. Somethings gotta give , and it just might be a flying broken bit or your workpiece. Part of the fun is learning, otherwise it would all be repetetive and boring. Happy metalworking, Mike G.
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message ----
                  > From: Mike Miller <mike@...>
                  > To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2007 3:52:29 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [GrizHFMinimill] Milling at less than 1770 Inches Per Minute....
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Sounds like a good plan. I've got How To Run a Lathe and it's been indispensable in learning the ropes on the lathe...is there a similar book for the mill?
                  >
                  >
                  > So when you guys talk about cutting lube, it's not flood cooling like you see in automated milling stations, is it? Seems like lubrication would make a heckuva mess, or not be enough to keep stuff cool.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > On Feb 4, 2007, at 1:17 PM, Mike Gehring wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Mike, If you are going around the outside diameter of the material in a clockwise direction, you are GOING THE WRONG DIRECTION and climb cutting as David Fignoogle tells you in the previous reply. If you haven't broken gears yet it won't be too long if you continue climb cutting. Besides, breaking bits or chipping off the bit tips,Bending a bits shaft etc. (all not good things). This applies to cutting when you are not running the bit through a solid section where the bit makes full contact with 1/2 (180 DEG) of the front surface of the bit.
                  > Also, you should probably use a 2 or 3 flute bit on aluminum.Oil wouldn't hurt either, adding some unsalted lard to oil even better, and a little graphite and you've got some good lube of cutting aluminum before it welds itself to your bit ends. Next tool purchase seems to be needed are some books or instructional videos, before damage to life limb or equipment.
                  > Good luck, Mike G.
                  >
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