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Re: Milling Aluminum at 1770 Inches Per Minute....

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  • Wayde C. Gutman
    If I had a homesite with plenty of elbow space between me and the neighbors (and the cash....), I would get either a HAAS VF-4 or VF-6 machining center and
    Message 1 of 26 , Jan 30, 2007
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      If I had a homesite with plenty of elbow space between me and the
      neighbors (and the cash....), I would get either a
      HAAS VF-4 or VF-6 machining center and plant it in the garage (just a
      two car garage, not some hangar). No, I don't think it has a 40k rpm
      spindle capability,maybe 10k, but these machines are compact and easy to
      use. Recalled seeing ads for used VF-4s goes from $25k to $40k.

      -wcgutman
    • Leo Reed
      Mike, thanks for the head s up on the 8x series lathe. This is a really impressive machine, as far as the specs. go. I have a 6 Atlas/Craftsman lathe.
      Message 2 of 26 , Feb 4, 2007
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        Mike, thanks for the "head's up" on the 8x series lathe.
         
        This is a really impressive machine, as far as the specs. go.
         
        I have a 6" Atlas/Craftsman lathe. (bought new in 1956) and it  has served me well. But If I decided to upgrade as far as swing, the 8x would be one to consider.
         
        Thanks, again.
         
        Leo (pearland, tx)
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: 1/29/2007 9:16:40 PM
        Subject: Re: [GrizHFMinimill] Re:Milling Aluminum at 1770 Inches Per Minute....

        On 1/29/07, Leo Reed <lpreedzone@earthlin k.net> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > Barry,
        >
        > Can you tell us a little about your 9x20 lathe? Make, accuracy and quality.
        >
        > Regards,
        > Leo (pearland, tx)

        Leo,

        If you don't need the size of the 9x20, be sure to check out the
        Harbor Freight 8x12
        (http://www.harborfr eight.com/ cpi/ctaf/ Displayitem. taf?itemnumber= 44859).
        I don't have a lathe yet (it'll be my next big purchase), but from the
        research I've done, it seems to be the best small, inexpensive lathe
        on the market. It seems to fall through the cracks a lot-- everyone
        mentions the 7x10 and the 9x20, but no one seems to be aware of this
        one. It is pretty much universally considered by those who've used it
        to be superior to either the 7x or the 9x. The price is right, too, at
        $439.99 plus $63 shipping.

        Here are a couple of reviews:
        http://stickman4. homestead. com/8x14lathe. html
        http://www.annisqua mgranite. com/ReviewHome. htm
        http://www.fignoggl e.com/machines/ 8x12lathe/ index.htm
        More links: http://www.fignoggl e.com/machines/ 8x12lathe/ links.htm

        The one real problem that with the 8x12 is that it's not as widely
        used. There are a number of after market accessories available for the
        7x & 9x models, but there's not a whole lot available for the 8x. This
        isn't a huge problem-- one of the fun things about owning machine
        tools is making accessories for them, but it's a minor annoyance.
        Otherwise this is a great, though not perfect lathe. When you consider
        the price & quality, it seems pretty hard to beat.

      • Mike Miller
        So I ve spent most of the past year getting the lathe restored and up and running...then fixing the bandsaw. Now I m making my first real project - a ball
        Message 3 of 26 , Feb 4, 2007
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          So I've spent most of the past year getting the lathe restored and up
          and running...then fixing the bandsaw.

          Now I'm making my first real project - a ball turner for the lathe,
          and am running into my first real issues with my abilities to mill.

          I've got 4 flute endmills from LittleMachineShop, and sometimes they
          cut GREAT...good chip production, doesn't load town the motor.

          Other times the aluminum galls up and it doesn't cut worth a damn.
          Specifically, I'm taking a piece of billet and returning all sides to
          true. I can go in a clockwise cut around the square piece of billet
          and going one way, it's like buttah, going 90 degrees perpenticular
          (to the bit is still rotating the same, relative to the cutting
          surface) it gets all mushy and doesn't cut well.

          I can't tell yet if it's because I've dulled the bits, or I'm doing
          something wrong.

          And FAQs on getting started? I'm gaining quite a bit of knowledge in
          some areas, but my abilities are woefully inadequate in others.
        • figNoggle
          hi mike- it sounds like a few things are happening. when the side cutting operation cuts like butter you re more than likely conventional cutting (picture
          Message 4 of 26 , Feb 4, 2007
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            hi mike-

            it sounds like a few things are happening. when the side cutting
            operation cuts like butter you're more than likely conventional cutting
            (picture "scooping" the material away from the workpiece).
            when you feel some resistance and end up loading the flutes you're
            probably taking heavy climb cuts (and probably not lubricating
            enough). here's a picture in the middle of the page that shows how this
            build up can ruin a part :) :

            <http://www.fignoggle.com/workshop/article/249/making-the-y-axis-bearing-block-end-mount-and-ball-nut-flange>
            or
            <http://tinyurl.com/2c8hpg>

            climb cutting will generally produce nice clean finishes so only take very
            light passes using the mini-mill (perhaps under 5 thou). otherwise, you
            can comventional side mill at 15-20 thou will little problems. just
            remember to lock your gib in the direction not being milled.

            hope this helps!
            david



            MetalWorkingFAQ.NET - Over 50 content sites! <http://www.metalworkingfaq.net>
            CNC, Plans/Kits, 8x12 Lathe, Mini-Mill, How-Tos <http://www.fignoggle.com>
            Sieg X3/Super X3 Mill Information, HF/Enco Coupons <http://www.superx3.com>

            On Sun, 4 Feb 2007, Mike Miller wrote:

            > So I've spent most of the past year getting the lathe restored and up
            > and running...then fixing the bandsaw.
            >
            > Now I'm making my first real project - a ball turner for the lathe,
            > and am running into my first real issues with my abilities to mill.
            >
            > I've got 4 flute endmills from LittleMachineShop, and sometimes they
            > cut GREAT...good chip production, doesn't load town the motor.
            >
            > Other times the aluminum galls up and it doesn't cut worth a damn.
            > Specifically, I'm taking a piece of billet and returning all sides to
            > true. I can go in a clockwise cut around the square piece of billet
            > and going one way, it's like buttah, going 90 degrees perpenticular
            > (to the bit is still rotating the same, relative to the cutting
            > surface) it gets all mushy and doesn't cut well.
            >
            > I can't tell yet if it's because I've dulled the bits, or I'm doing
            > something wrong.
            >
            > And FAQs on getting started? I'm gaining quite a bit of knowledge in
            > some areas, but my abilities are woefully inadequate in others.
            >
            >
            >
          • Mike Gehring
            Hi Mike, If you are going around the outside diameter of the material in a clockwise direction, you are GOING THE WRONG DIRECTION and climb cutting as David
            Message 5 of 26 , Feb 4, 2007
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              Hi Mike,   If you are going around the outside diameter of the material in a clockwise direction, you are GOING THE WRONG DIRECTION and climb cutting as David Fignoogle tells you in the previous reply. If you haven't broken gears yet it won't be too long  if you continue climb cutting. Besides, breaking bits or chipping off the bit tips,Bending  a bits shaft etc.  (all not good things). This applies to  cutting when you are not running the bit through a solid section where the bit makes full contact with 1/2  (180 DEG) of the front surface of the bit.
                  Also, you should probably use a 2 or 3 flute bit on aluminum.Oil wouldn't hurt either, adding some unsalted lard to oil even better, and a little graphite and you've got some good lube of cutting aluminum before it welds itself to your bit ends.  Next tool purchase  seems to be needed are some books or instructional videos, before  damage to life limb or equipment.
                    Good luck,    Mike G.

              ----- Original Message ----
              From: Mike Miller <mike@...>
              To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2007 9:21:54 AM
              Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Milling at less than 1770 Inches Per Minute....

              So I've spent most of the past year getting the lathe restored and up
              and running...then fixing the bandsaw.

              Now I'm making my first real project - a ball turner for the lathe,
              and am running into my first real issues with my abilities to mill.

              I've got 4 flute endmills from LittleMachineShop, and sometimes they
              cut GREAT...good chip production, doesn't load town the motor.

              Other times the aluminum galls up and it doesn't cut worth a damn.
              Specifically, I'm taking a piece of billet and returning all sides to
              true. I can go in a clockwise cut around the square piece of billet
              and going one way, it's like buttah, going 90 degrees perpenticular
              (to the bit is still rotating the same, relative to the cutting
              surface) it gets all mushy and doesn't cut well.

              I can't tell yet if it's because I've dulled the bits, or I'm doing
              something wrong.

              And FAQs on getting started? I'm gaining quite a bit of knowledge in
              some areas, but my abilities are woefully inadequate in others.




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            • Mike Miller
              Sounds like a good plan. I ve got How To Run a Lathe and it s been indispensable in learning the ropes on the lathe...is there a similar book for the mill? So
              Message 6 of 26 , Feb 4, 2007
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                Sounds like a good plan. I've got How To Run a Lathe and it's been indispensable in learning the ropes on the lathe...is there a similar book for the mill?

                So when you guys talk about cutting lube, it's not flood cooling like you see in automated milling stations, is it? Seems like lubrication would make a heckuva mess, or not be enough to keep stuff cool.



                On Feb 4, 2007, at 1:17 PM, Mike Gehring wrote:

                Hi Mike,   If you are going around the outside diameter of the material in a clockwise direction, you are GOING THE WRONG DIRECTION and climb cutting as David Fignoogle tells you in the previous reply. If you haven't broken gears yet it won't be too long  if you continue climb cutting. Besides, breaking bits or chipping off the bit tips,Bending  a bits shaft etc.  (all not good things). This applies to  cutting when you are not running the bit through a solid section where the bit makes full contact with 1/2  (180 DEG) of the front surface of the bit.
                    Also, you should probably use a 2 or 3 flute bit on aluminum.Oil wouldn't hurt either, adding some unsalted lard to oil even better, and a little graphite and you've got some good lube of cutting aluminum before it welds itself to your bit ends.  Next tool purchase  seems to be needed are some books or instructional videos, before  damage to life limb or equipment.
                      Good luck,    Mike G.


              • Mike Gehring
                Hi Mike, You can flood lube, but usually not necessary. But that aluminum you were talking about gooing is from not cutting because its welding itself to
                Message 7 of 26 , Feb 4, 2007
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                  Hi Mike, You can flood lube, but usually  not necessary. But that aluminum you were talking about gooing   is from not cutting because its welding  itself to the bit(not true welding but you get the idea). You can buy special lubes for aluminum versus standard cutting oil for steel. (although in industry they get specific on certain steels, certain cutting fluid. with slitting saws, more lube  Then again, some aluminum does not machine well and will goo no matter what. send it to the recycler.
                       I can't recommend any one book of great value for milling, hopefully someone will chime in with a suggestion.  I viewed the Swarfrat and Jose Rodriguez videos many times over. I would highly recommend both. The Swarfrat videos can be rented from the Swarfrat internet site and I believe they show some previews.  Some of them sound too simple  such as clamping. But those $40.00 clamp kits are well worth it and there IS a proper way to set them up for  use on the mill table. A vise is fine, but not the be all end all.  A workplate made to fit right on the mill table comes in mighty handy and in many instances makes using a  vise actually the  second or third best  holding device.   Vee blocks for cylinderical work  123 blocks and  angle plates all become necessary at some point to properly position and secure the workpiece.I even often use "C" clamps to hold against say an angle plate or to quickly add one more stop block   in front of the workpiece.
                       Besides books and videos, I found that just browsing machine tool stores if there are any in your area and figuring out what some of those odd looking tools do can  give inspiration for better  ways to accomplish some tasks. Just knowing what's available . Some of the books by Guy Lauraurd  Machinist Bedside reader  are good, but not specific to milling but a lot of lathe ideas and use of many of the machinists accessories
                       I'm glad you didn't take it personally about getting some books or other information, as it may have sounded gruff, but I truly was intending that you took the safety part of the danger of climb milling before something did happen. And it really happens fast when that bit can't bite no more. Somethings gotta give , and it just might be a flying broken bit or your workpiece. Part of the fun is learning, otherwise it would all be repetetive and boring.    Happy metalworking,   Mike G.

                  ----- Original Message ----
                  From: Mike Miller <mike@...>
                  To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2007 3:52:29 PM
                  Subject: Re: [GrizHFMinimill] Milling at less than 1770 Inches Per Minute....

                  Sounds like a good plan. I've got How To Run a Lathe and it's been indispensable  in learning the ropes on the lathe...is there a similar book for the mill?


                  So when you guys talk about cutting lube, it's not flood cooling like you see in automated milling stations, is it? Seems like lubrication would make a heckuva mess, or not be enough to keep stuff cool.



                  On Feb 4, 2007, at 1:17 PM, Mike Gehring wrote:

                  Hi Mike,   If you are going around the outside diameter of the material in a clockwise direction, you are GOING THE WRONG DIRECTION and climb cutting as David Fignoogle tells you in the previous reply. If you haven't broken gears yet it won't be too long  if you continue climb cutting. Besides, breaking bits or chipping off the bit tips,Bending  a bits shaft etc.  (all not good things). This applies to  cutting when you are not running the bit through a solid section where the bit makes full contact with 1/2  (180 DEG) of the front surface of the bit.
                      Also, you should probably use a 2 or 3 flute bit on aluminum.Oil wouldn't hurt either, adding some unsalted lard to oil even better, and a little graphite and you've got some good lube of cutting aluminum before it welds itself to your bit ends.  Next tool purchase  seems to be needed are some books or instructional videos, before  damage to life limb or equipment.
                        Good luck,    Mike G.





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                • Charles Owen
                  ... like ... I ve found aluminum to be bad about wanting to stick to tools, even regular 6061 alloy. I ve found a bit of WD40 can make all of the difference
                  Message 8 of 26 , Feb 5, 2007
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                    --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, Mike Miller <mike@...> wrote:
                    > So when you guys talk about cutting lube, it's not flood cooling
                    like
                    > you see in automated milling stations, is it? Seems like lubrication
                    > would make a heckuva mess, or not be enough to keep stuff cool.

                    I've found aluminum to be bad about wanting to stick to tools, even
                    regular 6061 alloy. I've found a bit of WD40 can make all of the
                    difference in the world. It makes it hard for the aluminum to stick
                    and helps it slide up the bit and out of the milling area. There are
                    also plenty of good aluminum cutting fluids, but WD40 is very cheap. I
                    spray from the can or from a cheap HF airbrush (gallons of WD40 are
                    much cheaper than the spray cans).

                    Charles
                  • Mike Miller
                    I took no offence at all. In fact, the more I learn about this hobby, the more I know I don t know. ;) The fact I ve already broken a bit in milling the
                    Message 9 of 26 , Feb 5, 2007
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                      I took no offence at all. In fact, the more I learn about this hobby, the more I know I don't know. ;)

                      The fact I've already broken a bit in milling the baseplate for the Lathe's QCTP shows I still need improvements to my technique. That 'Hey, why are the chips blue?', compounded with recognizing why they're blue....then breaking the bit, surfing the web and realizing that blue chips ain't the best thing to make...

                      Well, I've got NO problems with constructive criticism.



                      On Feb 4, 2007, at 11:23 PM, Mike Gehring wrote:


                           I'm glad you didn't take it personally about getting some books or other information, as it may have sounded gruff, but I truly was intending that you took the safety part of the danger of climb milling before something did happen. And it really happens fast when that bit can't bite no more. Somethings gotta give , and it just might be a flying broken bit or your workpiece. Part of the fun is learning, otherwise it would all be repetetive and boring.    Happy metalworking,   Mike G.


                    • Ali Ahmad
                      Message 10 of 26 , Feb 5, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "Charles Owen" <cbowen@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, Mike Miller <mike@> wrote:
                        > > So when you guys talk about cutting lube, it's not flood cooling
                        > like
                        > > you see in automated milling stations, is it? Seems like lubrication
                        > > would make a heckuva mess, or not be enough to keep stuff cool.
                        >
                        > I've found aluminum to be bad about wanting to stick to tools, even
                        > regular 6061 alloy. I've found a bit of WD40 can make all of the
                        > difference in the world. It makes it hard for the aluminum to stick
                        > and helps it slide up the bit and out of the milling area. There are
                        > also plenty of good aluminum cutting fluids, but WD40 is very cheap. I
                        > spray from the can or from a cheap HF airbrush (gallons of WD40 are
                        > much cheaper than the spray cans).
                        >
                        > Charles
                        >
                      • Ali Ahmad
                        Aluminum is definately sticky.It can ball up while machining and even while sanding by hand.One of my prefered methods is use a soft paste like sticky wax that
                        Message 11 of 26 , Feb 5, 2007
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                          Aluminum is definately sticky.It can ball up while machining and
                          even while sanding by hand.One of my prefered methods is use a soft
                          paste like sticky wax that is made for machining.It is available from
                          places like Grainger and comes in large tubes like the ones you would
                          use in a grease gun.I apply the wax to the surface of the piece along
                          the predicted tool path.The wax is great because it continues to
                          reduce friction as tool cuts with out much of a need to apply more.It
                          also doesnt make a huge mess.Another handy and of the shelf solution
                          is to use Kerosene in a spray bottle or even with a brush in a can.It
                          particularly good for sanding and polishing aluminum as it eliminates
                          all that balling and tearing that a soft metal is prone to.Trying to
                          get that high polish on that velocity stack for your chopper thats
                          chucked into your lathe? Well kerosene might just be that magic.Just
                          be sure to keep rinsing your fine sand paper in a coffee can with a
                          little Kerosene to wash away the fine metal powder that will turn to
                          paste as your piece get brighter and brighter. Kero will evaporate in
                          a short period of time without leaving an oily residue to have to
                          remove later.Works great for other metals too.Dont forget the box of
                          nitrile gloves for hand finishing and watch those fingers carefully.

                          Ali




                          --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "Charles Owen" <cbowen@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, Mike Miller <mike@> wrote:
                          > > So when you guys talk about cutting lube, it's not flood cooling
                          > like
                          > > you see in automated milling stations, is it? Seems like lubrication
                          > > would make a heckuva mess, or not be enough to keep stuff cool.
                          >
                          > I've found aluminum to be bad about wanting to stick to tools, even
                          > regular 6061 alloy. I've found a bit of WD40 can make all of the
                          > difference in the world. It makes it hard for the aluminum to stick
                          > and helps it slide up the bit and out of the milling area. There are
                          > also plenty of good aluminum cutting fluids, but WD40 is very cheap. I
                          > spray from the can or from a cheap HF airbrush (gallons of WD40 are
                          > much cheaper than the spray cans).
                          >
                          > Charles
                          >
                        • Mike Miller
                          That s some handy advice there! (As I look over at my ample supply of Kerosene for the heater)
                          Message 12 of 26 , Feb 5, 2007
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                            That's some handy advice there! (As I look over at my ample supply of
                            Kerosene for the heater)


                            On Feb 5, 2007, at 8:08 AM, Ali Ahmad wrote:

                            > Aluminum is definately sticky.It can ball up while machining and
                            > even while sanding by hand.One of my prefered methods is use a soft
                            > paste like sticky wax that is made for machining.It is available from
                            > places like Grainger and comes in large tubes like the ones you would
                            > use in a grease gun.I apply the wax to the surface of the piece along
                            > the predicted tool path.The wax is great because it continues to
                            > reduce friction as tool cuts with out much of a need to apply more.It
                            > also doesnt make a huge mess.Another handy and of the shelf solution
                            > is to use Kerosene in a spray bottle or even with a brush in a can.It
                            > particularly good for sanding and polishing aluminum as it eliminates
                            > all that balling and tearing that a soft metal is prone to.Trying to
                            > get that high polish on that velocity stack for your chopper thats
                            > chucked into your lathe? Well kerosene might just be that magic.Just
                            > be sure to keep rinsing your fine sand paper in a coffee can with a
                            > little Kerosene to wash away the fine metal powder that will turn to
                            > paste as your piece get brighter and brighter. Kero will evaporate in
                            > a short period of time without leaving an oily residue to have to
                            > remove later.Works great for other metals too.Dont forget the box of
                            > nitrile gloves for hand finishing and watch those fingers carefully.
                            >
                            > Ali
                          • gerry waclawiak
                            It does vary considerably depending on the grade of Aluminium that you use but I always use a lubricant to work aluminium. Kerosene or Paraffin to any Brits
                            Message 13 of 26 , Feb 5, 2007
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                              It does vary considerably depending on the grade of Aluminium that you use
                              but I always use a lubricant to work aluminium.

                              Kerosene or Paraffin to any Brits works well and is dirt cheap but I cant
                              stand the smell so I tend to use WD40 or one of the similar products which
                              smell nicer. I tend to use them from an aerosol can as this makes them
                              quick and easy to apply and since you are only using small quantities (for
                              lube not for cooling) they still work out very economical.

                              Gerry
                              Leeds Uk


                              >From: "Ali Ahmad" <scrappleking@...>
                              >Reply-To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                              >To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                              >Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: Milling at less than 1770 Inches Per
                              >Minute....Machining Lubricants
                              >Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 15:08:52 -0000
                              >
                              > Aluminum is definately sticky.It can ball up while machining and
                              >even while sanding by hand.One of my prefered methods is use a soft
                              >paste like sticky wax that is made for machining.It is available from
                              >places like Grainger and comes in large tubes like the ones you would
                              >use in a grease gun.I apply the wax to the surface of the piece along
                              >the predicted tool path.The wax is great because it continues to
                              >reduce friction as tool cuts with out much of a need to apply more.It
                              >also doesnt make a huge mess.Another handy and of the shelf solution
                              >is to use Kerosene in a spray bottle or even with a brush in a can.It
                              >particularly good for sanding and polishing aluminum as it eliminates
                              >all that balling and tearing that a soft metal is prone to.Trying to
                              >get that high polish on that velocity stack for your chopper thats
                              >chucked into your lathe? Well kerosene might just be that magic.Just
                              >be sure to keep rinsing your fine sand paper in a coffee can with a
                              >little Kerosene to wash away the fine metal powder that will turn to
                              >paste as your piece get brighter and brighter. Kero will evaporate in
                              >a short period of time without leaving an oily residue to have to
                              >remove later.Works great for other metals too.Dont forget the box of
                              >nitrile gloves for hand finishing and watch those fingers carefully.
                              >
                              >Ali
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >--- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "Charles Owen" <cbowen@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, Mike Miller <mike@> wrote:
                              > > > So when you guys talk about cutting lube, it's not flood cooling
                              > > like
                              > > > you see in automated milling stations, is it? Seems like lubrication
                              > > > would make a heckuva mess, or not be enough to keep stuff cool.
                              > >
                              > > I've found aluminum to be bad about wanting to stick to tools, even
                              > > regular 6061 alloy. I've found a bit of WD40 can make all of the
                              > > difference in the world. It makes it hard for the aluminum to stick
                              > > and helps it slide up the bit and out of the milling area. There are
                              > > also plenty of good aluminum cutting fluids, but WD40 is very cheap. I
                              > > spray from the can or from a cheap HF airbrush (gallons of WD40 are
                              > > much cheaper than the spray cans).
                              > >
                              > > Charles
                              > >
                              >
                              >

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                            • David Patterson
                              http://www.itwfpg.com/rustlick/machining.html#soluble I been using this stuff for years, milling castings, which can be quite gummy. you can get it or similar
                              Message 14 of 26 , Feb 5, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                http://www.itwfpg.com/rustlick/machining.html#soluble I been using this stuff for years, milling castings, which can be quite gummy. you can get it or similar at any machine supply. I mix it about 10water to 1oil with water so one gallon will last a long time an it's much cheaper that wd40. i put it in a spray bottle and use the stream setting.

                                Ali Ahmad <scrappleking@...> wrote:
                                --- In GrizHFMinimill@ yahoogroups. com, "Charles Owen" <cbowen@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > --- In GrizHFMinimill@ yahoogroups. com, Mike Miller <mike@> wrote:
                                > > So when you guys talk about cutting lube, it's not flood cooling
                                > like
                                > > you see in automated milling stations, is it? Seems like lubrication
                                > > would make a heckuva mess, or not be enough to keep stuff cool.
                                >
                                > I've found aluminum to be bad about wanting to stick to tools, even
                                > regular 6061 alloy. I've found a bit of WD40 can make all of the
                                > difference in the world. It makes it hard for the aluminum to stick
                                > and helps it slide up the bit and out of the milling area. There are
                                > also plenty of good aluminum cutting fluids, but WD40 is very cheap. I
                                > spray from the can or from a cheap HF airbrush (gallons of WD40 are
                                > much cheaper than the spray cans).
                                >
                                > Charles
                                >



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                              • figNoggle
                                hi mike- mike g. gives some sound advice. someone else mentioned using wd40 for lube and it does work pretty well and contributes to nice finishes on
                                Message 15 of 26 , Feb 5, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  hi mike-

                                  mike g. gives some sound advice. someone else mentioned using wd40 for
                                  "lube" and it does work pretty well and contributes to nice finishes on
                                  aluminum. we've been also testing out the tapmatic aquacut fluid and the
                                  mobilemet s-122. the aquacut smells nice and it doesn't stain the table
                                  and vise like the #1 gold product does. the mobilemet is inexpensive and
                                  is water soluble.

                                  re: videos. the ones by darrell holland are quite good to watch and can be
                                  rented at smartflix.com just like the ones mike mentioned.

                                  finally, after typing the original post, i realized that the description
                                  of climb/conventional cutting could have been a bit ambigious. one way to
                                  determine this is by watching where the chips "fly". in conventional cuts,
                                  the chips fly in the direction of the cutter travel as they're cut and
                                  "scooped" away from the workpiece.

                                  hope this helps!
                                  david


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                                  On Sun, 4 Feb 2007, Mike Gehring wrote:

                                  > Hi Mike, You can flood lube, but usually not necessary. But that aluminum you were talking about gooing is from not cutting because its welding itself to the bit(not true welding but you get the idea). You can buy special lubes for aluminum versus standard cutting oil for steel. (although in industry they get specific on certain steels, certain cutting fluid. with slitting saws, more lube Then again, some aluminum does not machine well and will goo no matter what. send it to the recycler.
                                  > I can't recommend any one book of great value for milling, hopefully someone will chime in with a suggestion. I viewed the Swarfrat and Jose Rodriguez videos many times over. I would highly recommend both. The Swarfrat videos can be rented from the Swarfrat internet site and I believe they show some previews. Some of them sound too simple such as clamping. But those $40.00 clamp kits are well worth it and there IS a proper way to set them up for use on the mill table. A vise is fine, but not the be all end all. A workplate made to fit right on the mill table comes in mighty handy and in many instances makes using a vise actually the second or third best holding device. Vee blocks for cylinderical work 123 blocks and angle plates all become necessary at some point to properly position and secure the workpiece.I even often use "C" clamps to hold against say an angle plate or to quickly add one more stop block in front of the workpiece.
                                  > Besides books and videos, I found that just browsing machine tool stores if there are any in your area and figuring out what some of those odd looking tools do can give inspiration for better ways to accomplish some tasks. Just knowing what's available . Some of the books by Guy Lauraurd Machinist Bedside reader are good, but not specific to milling but a lot of lathe ideas and use of many of the machinists accessories
                                  > I'm glad you didn't take it personally about getting some books or other information, as it may have sounded gruff, but I truly was intending that you took the safety part of the danger of climb milling before something did happen. And it really happens fast when that bit can't bite no more. Somethings gotta give , and it just might be a flying broken bit or your workpiece. Part of the fun is learning, otherwise it would all be repetetive and boring. Happy metalworking, Mike G.
                                  >
                                  > ----- Original Message ----
                                  > From: Mike Miller <mike@...>
                                  > To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2007 3:52:29 PM
                                  > Subject: Re: [GrizHFMinimill] Milling at less than 1770 Inches Per Minute....
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                                  > Sounds like a good plan. I've got How To Run a Lathe and it's been indispensable in learning the ropes on the lathe...is there a similar book for the mill?
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                                  > So when you guys talk about cutting lube, it's not flood cooling like you see in automated milling stations, is it? Seems like lubrication would make a heckuva mess, or not be enough to keep stuff cool.
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                                  > On Feb 4, 2007, at 1:17 PM, Mike Gehring wrote:
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                                  > Hi Mike, If you are going around the outside diameter of the material in a clockwise direction, you are GOING THE WRONG DIRECTION and climb cutting as David Fignoogle tells you in the previous reply. If you haven't broken gears yet it won't be too long if you continue climb cutting. Besides, breaking bits or chipping off the bit tips,Bending a bits shaft etc. (all not good things). This applies to cutting when you are not running the bit through a solid section where the bit makes full contact with 1/2 (180 DEG) of the front surface of the bit.
                                  > Also, you should probably use a 2 or 3 flute bit on aluminum.Oil wouldn't hurt either, adding some unsalted lard to oil even better, and a little graphite and you've got some good lube of cutting aluminum before it welds itself to your bit ends. Next tool purchase seems to be needed are some books or instructional videos, before damage to life limb or equipment.
                                  > Good luck, Mike G.
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