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Re: [GrizHFMinimill] First removal of end mill holder and collet on a Grizzly.

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  • Rick Kruger
    That does seem a bit strange. I don t use a rubber mallet, but a dead blow hammer. I d try a more solid type hammer. Be sure to put something between the
    Message 1 of 19 , Sep 22, 2004
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      That does seem a bit strange. I don't use a rubber mallet, but a dead blow
      hammer. I'd try a more solid type hammer. Be sure to put something
      between the drawbar and the hammer, like a piece of hardwood, especially if
      you use a metal hammer. You may have to hit it harder, as well.

      You also posted about having this difficulty with the drill chuck
      arbor. Are you perhaps tightening them too much, leading to the difficulty
      with removal?

      Rick

      At 05:19 PM 9/21/04, you wrote:
      >Well fellas, I have been bussy setting up my grizzly mini mill and have
      >come to a quite a snag. I am trying to remove the end mill holder and the
      >collet hich comes attached from the factory. I am following the
      >instructions to a TEE but can not remove this thing. I am loosening the
      >draw bar and using a rubber mallet to whack at the collet. I have gone
      >from mild whacks to somewhat powerfull and no progress. I refuse to
      >believe it is this difficult. Any other suggestions?
      >
      >Thanks in advance,
      >
      >Alex
    • Jerry S.
      Tighten the draw bar finger tight, then loosen about two full turns. Follow up with a sharp rap with a brass hammer, or if you have one a dead blow hammer
      Message 2 of 19 , Sep 22, 2004
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        Tighten the draw bar finger tight, then loosen about two full turns. Follow up with a sharp rap with a brass hammer, or if you have one a dead blow hammer should also work. The rubber mallet is not transferring the energy necessary to shock the taper fit to release.
        Jerry S.
        Hell, MI
        ----- Original Message -----
         

        Well fellas, I have been bussy setting up my grizzly mini mill and have come
        to a quite a snag.  I am trying to remove the end mill holder and the collet hich
        comes attached from the factory.  I am following the instructions to a TEE but
        can not remove this thing.  I am loosening the draw bar and using a rubber
        mallet to whack at the collet.  I have gone from mild whacks to somewhat
        powerfull and no progress.  I refuse to believe it is this difficult.  Any other
        suggestions?

        Thanks in advance,

        Alex



      • Cletus L. Berkeley
        HI: 1)m I believe that you may be setting the drawbar way too tight. 2) A good whack (downwards, on the drawbar nut)with a Brass Hammer (Mine is a 24oz)
        Message 3 of 19 , Sep 23, 2004
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          HI:
          1)m I believe that you may be setting the drawbar way
          too tight.
          2) A good whack (downwards, on the drawbar nut)with a
          Brass Hammer (Mine is a 24oz) usually persuades it
          just fine.
          3) When setting up the morse taper always make sure
          the inner and outer surfaces are clean and oil free.

          Hope this helps.
          Cheers, Cletus

          --- drabunich <drabunich@...> wrote:

          > Well fellas, I have been bussy setting up my grizzly
          > mini mill and have come
          > to a quite a snag. I am trying to remove the end
          > mill holder and the collet hich
          > comes attached from the factory. I am following the
          > instructions to a TEE but
          > can not remove this thing. I am loosening the draw
          > bar and using a rubber
          > mallet to whack at the collet. I have gone from
          > mild whacks to somewhat
          > powerfull and no progress. I refuse to believe it
          > is this difficult. Any other
          > suggestions?
          >
          > Thanks in advance,
          >
          > Alex
          >
          >
          >
        • ken.mary
          Hi Cletus: Why oil free? I been careful to be sure that there is a very thin coat of oil . I ve used air tool oil because it is thin and does not jell or gum
          Message 4 of 19 , Sep 23, 2004
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            Hi Cletus:

            Why oil free? I been careful to be sure that there is a very thin coat of
            oil . I've used air tool oil because it is thin and does not jell or gum up
            the works. Am I making things more difficult to remove?

            Bye, Ken

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Cletus L. Berkeley" <cberkeley@...>
            To: <GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 2:56 AM
            Subject: Re: [GrizHFMinimill] First removal of end mill holder and collet on
            a Grizzly.


            >
            > HI:
            > 1)m I believe that you may be setting the drawbar way
            > too tight.
            > 2) A good whack (downwards, on the drawbar nut)with a
            > Brass Hammer (Mine is a 24oz) usually persuades it
            > just fine.
            > 3) When setting up the morse taper always make sure
            > the inner and outer surfaces are clean and oil free.
            SNIP
          • Jim E.
            If it s that tight, I d recommend also putting a block of metal or wood on the mill table and bringing the outer portion of the spindle down on it. This ll
            Message 5 of 19 , Sep 23, 2004
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              If it's that tight, I'd recommend also putting a block of metal or wood
              on the mill table and bringing the outer portion of the spindle down on
              it. This'll spare the bearings from taking the jolts from the whacking.

              During normal usage, I use a small lead-head hammer to loosen the collet.

              Graciously,
              Jim
              Lakewood, CA
              All Hail Rube Goldberg!

              Rick Kruger wrote:

              > That does seem a bit strange. I don't use a rubber mallet, but a dead blow
              > hammer. I'd try a more solid type hammer. Be sure to put something
              > between the drawbar and the hammer, like a piece of hardwood, especially if
              > you use a metal hammer. You may have to hit it harder, as well.
              >
              > You also posted about having this difficulty with the drill chuck
              > arbor. Are you perhaps tightening them too much, leading to the difficulty
              > with removal?
              >
              > Rick
              >
              > At 05:19 PM 9/21/04, you wrote:
              >
              >>Well fellas, I have been bussy setting up my grizzly mini mill and have
              >>come to a quite a snag. I am trying to remove the end mill holder and the
              >>collet hich comes attached from the factory. I am following the
              >>instructions to a TEE but can not remove this thing. I am loosening the
              >>draw bar and using a rubber mallet to whack at the collet. I have gone
              >
              >>from mild whacks to somewhat powerfull and no progress. I refuse to
              >
              >>believe it is this difficult. Any other suggestions?
              >>
              >>Thanks in advance,
              >>
              >>Alex
            • drabunich
              Thanks fellas. Got it. This was not my tightening. Came from the factory this way. Gave the draw bar a good whack, finally came out. Alex
              Message 6 of 19 , Sep 23, 2004
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                Thanks fellas. Got it. This was not my tightening. Came from the
                factory this way. Gave the draw bar a good whack, finally came out.

                Alex
              • Cletus L. Berkeley
                Hi, I always oil the taper and the collets after use. Before use I wipe the collet and the inside of the morde taper to ensure a clean, slip-free fit. I then
                Message 7 of 19 , Sep 25, 2004
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                  Hi,
                  I always oil the taper and the collets after use.
                  Before use I wipe the collet and the inside of the
                  morde taper to ensure a clean, slip-free fit. I then
                  insert the apropriate cutter or tool and tighten the
                  drawbar snug (never overtightening). When finished I
                  can always eject the collet and cutter with one sharp
                  blow from my brass hammer (after loosening the
                  drawbar, of course).
                  Cheers, Cletus
                  --- "ken.mary" <ken.mary@...> wrote:

                  > Hi Cletus:
                  >
                  > Why oil free? I been careful to be sure that there
                  > is a very thin coat of
                  > oil . I've used air tool oil because it is thin and
                  > does not jell or gum up
                  > the works. Am I making things more difficult to
                  > remove?
                  >
                  > Bye, Ken
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "Cletus L. Berkeley" <cberkeley@...>
                  > To: <GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 2:56 AM
                  > Subject: Re: [GrizHFMinimill] First removal of end
                  > mill holder and collet on
                  > a Grizzly.
                  >
                  >
                  > >
                  > > HI:
                  > > 1)m I believe that you may be setting the drawbar
                  > way
                  > > too tight.
                  > > 2) A good whack (downwards, on the drawbar
                  > nut)with a
                  > > Brass Hammer (Mine is a 24oz) usually persuades it
                  > > just fine.
                  > > 3) When setting up the morse taper always make
                  > sure
                  > > the inner and outer surfaces are clean and oil
                  > free.
                  > SNIP
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • dswr@webtv.net
                  One precaution, don t under-tighten the drawbar. If the taper should slip under load, the surfaces of the taper can gall. This can adversely affect the
                  Message 8 of 19 , Sep 25, 2004
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                    One precaution, don't "under-tighten" the drawbar. If the taper should
                    slip under load, the surfaces of the taper can gall. This can adversely
                    affect the accuracy of the mill. The advice about "no oil, clean and
                    dry" is good advice.Better to have to "knock" a little harder than have
                    a "messed up taper".

                    Leo (pearland, tx)
                  • jacoby01
                    ... out. ... I just read through this thread this morning and I ve got the reverse question - how tight should I tighten the drawbar? I ve got the HF
                    Message 9 of 19 , Sep 30, 2004
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                      --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "drabunich" <drabunich@y...>
                      wrote:
                      > Thanks fellas. Got it. This was not my tightening. Came from the
                      > factory this way. Gave the draw bar a good whack, finally came
                      out.
                      >
                      > Alex

                      I just read through this thread this morning and I've got
                      the "reverse question" - how tight should I tighten the drawbar?
                      I've got the HF Minimill (R8) and while holding the spindle with the
                      supplied spanner wrench I turn the drawbar until it is firm, not
                      exactly tight - I stripped many many nuts and bolts as a kid when I
                      thought things had to be really tight - at any rate, any suggestions
                      regarding how tight is tight enough? Even a suggestion in inch
                      ounces would be appreciated.

                      Thanks,

                      Bob
                    • cervelo@desmodue.com
                      I was in your same situation as I just got my minimill, and I don t think the spanner should be used to loosen the drawbar. There is a quill that sticks in
                      Message 10 of 19 , Sep 30, 2004
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                        I was in your same situation as I just got my minimill, and I don't think the spanner should be used to loosen the drawbar.  There is a quill that sticks in the rt side of the head to lock in it in place to loosen the drawbar.  I have also read that not removing the quill before turning on the mill causes gear breakage.

                        My terminology may be off, and since I have never used a mill before Sunday morning I could be off base, but this method has worked for me several times this week.

                        Rod

                        jacoby01 wrote:
                        --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "drabunich" <drabunich@y...>
                        wrote:
                        > Thanks fellas.  Got it.  This was not my tightening.  Came from the
                        > factory this way.  Gave the draw bar a good whack, finally came
                        out. 
                        >
                        > Alex

                        I just read through this thread this morning and I've got
                        the "reverse question" - how tight should I tighten the drawbar? 
                        I've got the HF Minimill (R8) and while holding the spindle with the
                        supplied spanner wrench I turn the drawbar until it is firm, not
                        exactly tight - I stripped many many nuts and bolts as a kid when I
                        thought things had to be really tight - at any rate, any suggestions
                        regarding how tight is tight enough?  Even a suggestion in inch
                        ounces would be appreciated.

                        Thanks,

                        Bob

                      • Greg
                        ... I don t have any torque numbers, but it sounds like you are doing the right thing. I tighten it so that it snugs up and just a bit more. No real muscle
                        Message 11 of 19 , Sep 30, 2004
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                          jacoby01 wrote:
                          --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "drabunich" <drabunich@y...> 
                          wrote:
                            
                          Thanks fellas.  Got it.  This was not my tightening.  Came from the
                          factory this way.  Gave the draw bar a good whack, finally came 
                              
                          out.  
                            
                          Alex
                              
                          I just read through this thread this morning and I've got 
                          the "reverse question" - how tight should I tighten the drawbar?  
                          I've got the HF Minimill (R8) and while holding the spindle with the 
                          supplied spanner wrench I turn the drawbar until it is firm, not 
                          exactly tight - I stripped many many nuts and bolts as a kid when I 
                          thought things had to be really tight - at any rate, any suggestions 
                          regarding how tight is tight enough?  Even a suggestion in inch 
                          ounces would be appreciated.
                          
                            
                          I don't have any torque numbers, but it sounds like you are doing the right thing. I tighten it so that it snugs up and just a bit more. No real muscle required. I've never had a collet slip and I've never had one fail to release with a single moderate tap of a deadblow hammer. BTW, you  can get plastic, shot-filled deadblow hammer for less than $10. I recommend it to anyone for many tasks,  such as releasing collets, squaring a vice, tapping work down into a vice, etc. It does not mar anything and it does not bounce. It is always within reach on my bench. Just remember that a little tap goes a long way.

                          Greg
                        • Dave Jarzyna
                          First- I ve replaced the factory drawbar with a long bolt I got at Lowes - threads fit my collets ( a set I got from Harbor Freight) so I have a HEX bolt ( I
                          Message 12 of 19 , Sep 30, 2004
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                            First- I've replaced the factory drawbar with a long bolt I got at
                            Lowes - threads fit my collets ( a set I got from Harbor Freight) so
                            I have a HEX bolt ( I think its 5/8" )
                            Second when tightening - most advice I've heard is tight enough so
                            that your cutter won't slip.... I put the "quill" - just a rod that
                            fits in a hole in the side of the head & into one on the outside of
                            the spindle - to keep the spindle from turning.
                            THEN I tighten with the 5/8 wrench - kinda like how you would tighten
                            down your car battery - but no where near as tight as you do the lug
                            nuts on the car wheel. Just pull with my right hand/arm at shoulder
                            level whitout leaning my body back.
                            Lastly I MAKE SURE that I remove the Quill

                            To Loosen I use the wrench - pushing - just until I can turn the bolt
                            by fingers alone - Then ( poor use of a good tool >) I smack the hex
                            head streight down with the side of the wrench shaft - I'm too lazy
                            to go for a small brass hammer.
                            The collet usually drops & the cutter -sometimes - falls into my
                            waiting hand ( a lot of the time the cutter is loose but I must pull
                            it out of the collet with my fingers ( 3/8 tool in a 3/8 collet )
                            At any rate one should NOT allow the tool to fall onto the mill bed!
                            Dave J Billings MT


                            >
                            > I just read through this thread this morning and I've got
                            > the "reverse question" - how tight should I tighten the drawbar?
                            > I've got the HF Minimill (R8) and while holding the spindle with
                            the
                            > supplied spanner wrench I turn the drawbar until it is firm, not
                            > exactly tight - I stripped many many nuts and bolts as a kid when I
                            > thought things had to be really tight - at any rate, any
                            suggestions
                            > regarding how tight is tight enough? Even a suggestion in inch
                            > ounces would be appreciated.
                            >
                            > Thanks,
                            >
                            > Bob
                          • Jim E.
                            Being a veteran mini-mill owner, I can attest to the truth of both your statements. In fact, I made the LMS spindle lock pin
                            Message 13 of 19 , Sep 30, 2004
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                              Being a veteran mini-mill owner, I can attest to the truth of both your
                              statements. In fact, I made the LMS spindle lock pin
                              http://www.littlemachineshop.com/Projects/SpindlePin.php to ensure the
                              latter never happens again.

                              Graciously,
                              Jim
                              Lakewood, CA
                              All Hail Rube Goldberg!

                              cervelo@... wrote:

                              > I was in your same situation as I just got my minimill, and I don't
                              > think the spanner should be used to loosen the drawbar. There is a
                              > quill that sticks in the rt side of the head to lock in it in place to
                              > loosen the drawbar. I have also read that not removing the quill before
                              > turning on the mill causes gear breakage.
                              >
                              > My terminology may be off, and since I have never used a mill before
                              > Sunday morning I could be off base, but this method has worked for me
                              > several times this week.
                              >
                              > Rod
                              >
                              > jacoby01 wrote:
                              >
                              >> --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "drabunich" <drabunich@y...>
                              >> wrote:
                              >> > Thanks fellas. Got it. This was not my tightening. Came from the
                              >> > factory this way. Gave the draw bar a good whack, finally came
                              >> out.
                              >> >
                              >> > Alex
                              >>
                              >> I just read through this thread this morning and I've got
                              >> the "reverse question" - how tight should I tighten the drawbar?
                              >> I've got the HF Minimill (R8) and while holding the spindle with the
                              >> supplied spanner wrench I turn the drawbar until it is firm, not
                              >> exactly tight - I stripped many many nuts and bolts as a kid when I
                              >> thought things had to be really tight - at any rate, any suggestions
                              >> regarding how tight is tight enough? Even a suggestion in inch
                              >> ounces would be appreciated.
                              >>
                              >> Thanks,
                              >>
                              >> Bob
                            • dswr@webtv.net
                              Bob, The Morse Taper and the R-8 taper are different animals . The reason for a taper in the first place is to insure concentricity of the tool. The R-8 is a
                              Message 14 of 19 , Sep 30, 2004
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                                Bob,

                                The Morse Taper and the R-8 taper are different "animals".

                                The reason for a taper in the first place is to insure concentricity of
                                the tool.

                                The R-8 is a self-releasing taper. In other words, the taper by itself
                                will not stay in place. You have to have a drawbar to retain the taper
                                in place. I believe the drive key prevents the "spinning" of the tapers.

                                The Morse is a self-holding taper. That is, when the surfaces are drawn
                                together, they "stick" and will not come apart until they are driven
                                apart.

                                After the Morse taper is drawn together, the drawbar could be withdrawn
                                (not recommended) and the taper would most likely not spin under load.

                                On the other hand, without the drawbar in place, the R-8 would work
                                loose.

                                As far as how tight to make the drawbar on either system, that is hard
                                to describe.

                                On either taper, in use the surfaces of both the inner and outer taper
                                surfaces should be clean and dry, no oil.

                                On the Mini-Mill, do not use the spanner wrench to hold the spindle
                                steady, insert the locking pin in the hole alongside the spindle. Be
                                sure to remove the locking pin right after you tighten/loosen the
                                drawbar!

                                My 1.9999 cents worth,

                                Leo (pearland, tx)
                              • Greg
                                ... Lucky me...I screwed up and left the pin in for the first time last night. No broken gears, just a loud hum and a frantic grab for the panic button. I ve
                                Message 15 of 19 , Sep 30, 2004
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                                  Jim E. wrote:

                                  >Being a veteran mini-mill owner, I can attest to the truth of both your
                                  >statements. In fact, I made the LMS spindle lock pin
                                  >http://www.littlemachineshop.com/Projects/SpindlePin.php to ensure the
                                  >latter never happens again.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  Lucky me...I screwed up and left the pin in for the first time last
                                  night. No broken gears, just a loud hum and a frantic grab for the panic
                                  button.

                                  I've been considering building a spring loaded pin that stays in place
                                  on on the machine.

                                  -Greg
                                • REBEL
                                  I ve been considering building a spring loaded pin that stays in place on on the machine . Greg,this is the first mod I did to my 8689 and haven t regretted
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Sep 30, 2004
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                                    "I've been considering building a spring loaded pin that stays in
                                    place
                                    on on the machine".

                                    Greg,this is the first mod I did to my 8689 and haven't regretted it
                                    at all.Works much nicer than always searching for the tommy bar to
                                    insert in the hole.

                                    Check out Steve Bedairs and a few other users sites for the mod,very
                                    simple to do.

                                    GB
                                    Bill C.
                                  • Alan Dawes
                                    ... your ... the ... panic ... Been there, done that! I immediately attached a long piece of thread under the screw on the handle of the pin with a bit of
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Oct 1, 2004
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                                      --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, Greg <gregas@c...> wrote:
                                      > Jim E. wrote:
                                      >
                                      > >Being a veteran mini-mill owner, I can attest to the truth of both
                                      your
                                      > >statements. In fact, I made the LMS spindle lock pin
                                      > >http://www.littlemachineshop.com/Projects/SpindlePin.php to ensure
                                      the
                                      > >latter never happens again.
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > Lucky me...I screwed up and left the pin in for the first time last

                                      > night. No broken gears, just a loud hum and a frantic grab for the
                                      panic
                                      > button.
                                      >

                                      Been there, done that! I immediately attached a long piece of thread
                                      under the screw on the handle of the 'pin' with a bit of plastic
                                      sprue tied to the other end of the thread. Now when I use the 'pin'
                                      the dangling thread reminds me to jam the plastic sprue in the
                                      surround of the emergency stop button so I cann't turn on the mill
                                      without remembering to remove the sprue and the 'pin'.

                                      Alan
                                    • Jim E.
                                      Got a pic you can share? This sounds interesting. Graciously, Jim Lakewood, CA All Hail Rube Goldberg!
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Oct 4, 2004
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                                        Got a pic you can share? This sounds interesting.

                                        Graciously,
                                        Jim
                                        Lakewood, CA
                                        All Hail Rube Goldberg!

                                        Alan Dawes wrote:
                                        > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, Greg <gregas@c...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        >>Jim E. wrote:
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>>Being a veteran mini-mill owner, I can attest to the truth of both
                                        >
                                        > your
                                        >
                                        >>>statements. In fact, I made the LMS spindle lock pin
                                        >>>http://www.littlemachineshop.com/Projects/SpindlePin.php to ensure
                                        >
                                        > the
                                        >
                                        >>>latter never happens again.
                                        >>>
                                        >>>
                                        >>
                                        >>Lucky me...I screwed up and left the pin in for the first time last
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >>night. No broken gears, just a loud hum and a frantic grab for the
                                        >
                                        > panic
                                        >
                                        >>button.
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Been there, done that! I immediately attached a long piece of thread
                                        > under the screw on the handle of the 'pin' with a bit of plastic
                                        > sprue tied to the other end of the thread. Now when I use the 'pin'
                                        > the dangling thread reminds me to jam the plastic sprue in the
                                        > surround of the emergency stop button so I cann't turn on the mill
                                        > without remembering to remove the sprue and the 'pin'.
                                        >
                                        > Alan
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