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Re: What's causing this noise? It can't be good!

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  • CLevinski
    Hi, Gerry, That s extremely helpful! Thanks, I ll drop them an email and see what they say... Charlie ... conversion ... reliant ... belt ... in ...
    Message 1 of 24 , May 23, 2013
      Hi, Gerry,

      That's extremely helpful! Thanks, I'll drop them an email and see what
      they say...

      Charlie

      --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, gerry waclawiak wrote:
      >
      > Hi Charlie,
      >
      > Although
      > Real Bull mills are a lot more common in the UK than the US and have
      > been around for several years I have never seen a belt drive
      conversion
      > available commercially. Even for the Sieg versions we seem to be
      reliant
      > on the import from the US of the Stirling Steele Kit. I made my own
      > using the Hoss Machine plans for the X2 and I am sure you could adapt
      > these to suit your RB if it came down to it.
      >
      > That said I recently
      > attended a Model Engineering Exhibition at Harrogate in the UK, near
      > where I live, and one of the Premier Annual Shows here.
      >
      > I came
      > across a firm selling what looked to be Real Bull based mill with a
      belt
      > drive. I asked the attendant and he told me they were going to sell a
      > conversion kit for the gear drive versions for £80 (about $120 US)
      in
      > the future but they were very usy so I didn't get any details.
      >
      > I attach a link to their website
      http://www.spgtools.com/viewtool.php?pid=109 that might be worth looking
      at and possibly following up with an e-mail about the kit
      >
      > Gerry W
      > Leeds UK
      >
      > To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
      > From: clevinski@...
      > Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 02:38:25 +0000
      > Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: What's causing this noise? It can't be
      good!
      >
      >
      >
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      >
      >
      >
      > Hi,
      >
      >
      >
      > I think I'm going to have to bite the bullet soon and do a belt drive
      >
      > conversion on my Real Bull mini-mill. I checked with Benchtop
      >
      > Precision, and they make a conversion kit for the Sieg, but it doesn't
      >
      > fit the Real Bull. So, unless someone is aware of a kit for the Real
      >
      > Bull, I'm going to have to do it myself. That's OK; the question is,
      >
      > does anyone have drawings for a RB conversion?
      >
      >
      >
      > BTW, I've heard that the Real Bull products are more popular in
      Europe,
      >
      > and the Sieg more popular here in the US. Maybe someone in Europe
      makes
      >
      > a conversion kit?
      >
      >
      >
      > Thanks,
      >
      > Charlie
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, gerry waclawiak wrote:
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Hi Charlie
      >
      > >
      >
      > > It takes the shine off your latest project when you look at things
      >
      > that way and figure that slavery pays better but the trith is you
      would
      >
      > need to pick your projects very carefully to make anything like a
      living
      >
      > with a mini-lathe. Often you'll pay more for the material than you
      could
      >
      > buy it for in a store but hey we do it for the fun and because we can
      >
      > right?!
      >
      > >
      >
      > > I.m daft enough to enjoy making small nuts and bolts for the fun of
      >
      > it.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > I had my mill for abot 3 years before I made a belt conversion so I
      >
      > was pretty competent at milling and turning on my mini-lathe and all
      >
      > the parts were made on those two machines over a weekend with nothing
      >
      > more complex than a boring bar on the lathe and a boring head and fly
      >
      > cutter in the mill. A fair bit of that time was spent modifying the
      >
      > design to make use of material from the scrap box, the spindle pulley
      >
      > for example was made as a composite of round bar and flat plate rather
      >
      > than turned from a solid (larger diameter/) bar and milling or fly
      >
      > cutting stock to size whilst this saved buying stock this added quite
      a
      >
      > lot of thinking and machining time.
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > The Sterling Steele kit is for SiegX2 based models only and I am not
      >
      > aware of any commercial product that would fit a Real Bull based
      >
      > mini-mill so "home brew" is your only option.
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > I had a lot of fun making it
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Gerry W
      >
      > > Leeds UK
      >
      > >
      >
      > > To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > > From: clevinski@
      >
      > > Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 16:32:06 +0000
      >
      > > Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: What's causing this noise? It can't
      be
      >
      > good!
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
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      > >
      >
      > > Hi, Gerry,
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > I agree with you about judging sound from video. In my case, the
      mill
      >
      > >
      >
      > > sounded a bit better on the video than it did in person.
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > I find I am learning something new every time I work on a project,
      and
      >
      > >
      >
      > > want to get to the point where I would be comfortable making the
      >
      > >
      >
      > > conversion with relatively few major issues and without it taking
      >
      > >
      >
      > > forever. (I told my wife that if I were doing this for a living,
      we'd
      >
      > >
      >
      > > be broke. It took me two hours to put a .625" x .625" x .250 inch
      >
      > deep
      >
      > >
      >
      > > end on a piece of 1.250 diameter steel. That's, what? Maybe 12
      cents
      >
      > >
      >
      > > an hour as piece work?!)
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > I'm going to stick with it for now and continue to monitor it for
      any
      >
      > >
      >
      > > worsening of the sound, but I don't really expect any. Then, when
      I'm
      >
      > >
      >
      > > more proficient, I'll attempt the conversion. Since my mill is a
      Real
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Bull, I'm not sure if the Sterling Steele conversion would work
      >
      > without
      >
      > >
      >
      > > modification anyway, and doing the mod would be a good experience.
      I
      >
      > >
      >
      > > have the advantage of having access to a Bridgeport if I need to do
      >
      > some
      >
      > >
      >
      > > milling while mine is disassembled, though I hate working with other
      >
      > >
      >
      > > people's equipment; you never know where anything is.
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > So thanks for your input and suggestions... it seems like I am on a
      >
      > >
      >
      > > reasonable path.
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Best regards,
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Charlie
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, gerry waclawiak
      >
      > >
      >
      > > wrote:
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > Hi Charlie,
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > I'm not a great fan of trying to judge sound from relatively poor
      >
      > >
      >
      > > quality recordings as it often gives a poor impression compared with
      >
      > how
      >
      > >
      >
      > > you hear it live, but having done a belt conversion myself I would
      >
      > agree
      >
      > >
      >
      > > that the noise reduction is more pronounced in real life, the
      >
      > recording
      >
      > >
      >
      > > seems to reduce the gear noise in the "before" and over-emphasise
      the
      >
      > >
      >
      > > motor noise in the "after" recording.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > It is certainly a great improvement to the gear driv in the stock
      >
      > mill
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Not only in noise reduction but also smoothness and vibration. The
      >
      > >
      >
      > > increase in speed range is very welcome if you use small diameter
      >
      > mills
      >
      > >
      >
      > > or drills <1/8" ish but also eliminates the risk of breaking the
      >
      > plastic
      >
      > >
      >
      > > gears.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > I doubt ha there is much wrong with your mill, they are quite
      noisy
      >
      > >
      >
      > > due to the straight cut gears and if there was much up with your
      >
      > >
      >
      > > spindle bearings then this would show in vibration and chatter
      whilst
      >
      > >
      >
      > > cutting and you would spot it quite easily using a dial indicator.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > I think you idea of getting some experience with the stock set up
      is
      >
      > >
      >
      > > sound. In my experience the plastic gears are not as fragile as many
      >
      > >
      >
      > > people make out and with a little patience and care on the part of
      the
      >
      > >
      >
      > > operator they should last a long time. I ran my mill for 5 years
      >
      > before
      >
      > >
      >
      > > I did a belt conversion and a lot of useful work.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > When you do decide on a belt conversion you might like to consider
      a
      >
      > >
      >
      > > home made solution as by that time your machining skills will be
      well
      >
      > up
      >
      > >
      >
      > > to scratch.as it is not particularly difficult to do. The Stirling
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Steele conversion is a fine product and well proven but here in the
      UK
      >
      > >
      >
      > > when you allow for taxes and shipping it does become very expensive.
      I
      >
      > >
      >
      > > made mine largely from the scrap box with the most expense being a
      new
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Gates Truflex belt!
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > Enjoy your machining
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > Gerry w
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > Leeds UK
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > From: clevinski@
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 20:45:45 +0000
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: What's causing this noise? It can't
      >
      > be
      >
      > >
      >
      > > good!
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
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      > > >
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      > > >
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      > >
      >
      > > > Wow... that's impressive. Thanks for the link...
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
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      > >
      >
      > > >
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      > >
      >
      > > > Charlie
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "jonbru65" wrote:
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > Hi Charlie. This youtube video might give you an idea of the
      noise
      >
      > >
      >
      > > reduction. It's the best upgrade I have made on my machine.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsZTvvfe-3s
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > JB
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
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      > > > >
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      > >
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      > > >
      >
      > >
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      > > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "CLevinski" wrote:
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > > Thanks to you all for your comments. I have never actually
      >
      > tried
      >
      > >
      >
      > > to cut
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > > anything running over 1000 RPM; in fact, I don't think I've
      ever
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > > actually used it in high gear. Maybe I'll try milling some
      >
      > >
      >
      > > aluminum
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > > with a 1/4" diameter end mill and see if the noise still
      occurs.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > > That's an interesting observation regarding the motor speed; I
      >
      > >
      >
      > > think
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > > it's running faster, but I'm not sure. I'll have to see if I
      >
      > have
      >
      > >
      >
      > > an
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > > optical tachometer around here someplace that I can use to
      >
      > measure
      >
      > >
      >
      > > it.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > > Regarding converting it to a belt drive, my plan was to
      consider
      >
      > >
      >
      > > doing
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > > that after I got some more experience with the mill. My
      >
      > problem,
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > > though, is that without knowing the source of the noise, I
      don't
      >
      > >
      >
      > > know if
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > > the conversion will fix it. Is there any possibility that the
      >
      > >
      >
      > > noise
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > > relates to the spindle bearings? If not, then I would know
      the
      >
      > >
      >
      > > belt
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > > drive conversion would solve it, if nothing else.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > > Thanks again,
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > > Charlie
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
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