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Re: What's causing this noise? It can't be good!

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  • CLevinski
    Hi, I think I m going to have to bite the bullet soon and do a belt drive conversion on my Real Bull mini-mill. I checked with Benchtop Precision, and they
    Message 1 of 24 , May 22, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi,

      I think I'm going to have to bite the bullet soon and do a belt drive
      conversion on my Real Bull mini-mill. I checked with Benchtop
      Precision, and they make a conversion kit for the Sieg, but it doesn't
      fit the Real Bull. So, unless someone is aware of a kit for the Real
      Bull, I'm going to have to do it myself. That's OK; the question is,
      does anyone have drawings for a RB conversion?

      BTW, I've heard that the Real Bull products are more popular in Europe,
      and the Sieg more popular here in the US. Maybe someone in Europe makes
      a conversion kit?

      Thanks,
      Charlie


      --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, gerry waclawiak wrote:
      >
      > Hi Charlie
      >
      > It takes the shine off your latest project when you look at things
      that way and figure that slavery pays better but the trith is you would
      need to pick your projects very carefully to make anything like a living
      with a mini-lathe. Often you'll pay more for the material than you could
      buy it for in a store but hey we do it for the fun and because we can
      right?!
      >
      > I.m daft enough to enjoy making small nuts and bolts for the fun of
      it.
      >
      > I had my mill for abot 3 years before I made a belt conversion so I
      was pretty competent at milling and turning on my mini-lathe and all
      the parts were made on those two machines over a weekend with nothing
      more complex than a boring bar on the lathe and a boring head and fly
      cutter in the mill. A fair bit of that time was spent modifying the
      design to make use of material from the scrap box, the spindle pulley
      for example was made as a composite of round bar and flat plate rather
      than turned from a solid (larger diameter/) bar and milling or fly
      cutting stock to size whilst this saved buying stock this added quite a
      lot of thinking and machining time.
      >
      >
      > The Sterling Steele kit is for SiegX2 based models only and I am not
      aware of any commercial product that would fit a Real Bull based
      mini-mill so "home brew" is your only option.
      >
      >
      > I had a lot of fun making it
      >
      >
      > Gerry W
      > Leeds UK
      >
      > To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
      > From: clevinski@...
      > Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 16:32:06 +0000
      > Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: What's causing this noise? It can't be
      good!
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Hi, Gerry,
      >
      >
      >
      > I agree with you about judging sound from video. In my case, the mill
      >
      > sounded a bit better on the video than it did in person.
      >
      >
      >
      > I find I am learning something new every time I work on a project, and
      >
      > want to get to the point where I would be comfortable making the
      >
      > conversion with relatively few major issues and without it taking
      >
      > forever. (I told my wife that if I were doing this for a living, we'd
      >
      > be broke. It took me two hours to put a .625" x .625" x .250 inch
      deep
      >
      > end on a piece of 1.250 diameter steel. That's, what? Maybe 12 cents
      >
      > an hour as piece work?!)
      >
      >
      >
      > I'm going to stick with it for now and continue to monitor it for any
      >
      > worsening of the sound, but I don't really expect any. Then, when I'm
      >
      > more proficient, I'll attempt the conversion. Since my mill is a Real
      >
      > Bull, I'm not sure if the Sterling Steele conversion would work
      without
      >
      > modification anyway, and doing the mod would be a good experience. I
      >
      > have the advantage of having access to a Bridgeport if I need to do
      some
      >
      > milling while mine is disassembled, though I hate working with other
      >
      > people's equipment; you never know where anything is.
      >
      >
      >
      > So thanks for your input and suggestions... it seems like I am on a
      >
      > reasonable path.
      >
      >
      >
      > Best regards,
      >
      > Charlie
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, gerry waclawiak
      >
      > wrote:
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Hi Charlie,
      >
      > >
      >
      > > I'm not a great fan of trying to judge sound from relatively poor
      >
      > quality recordings as it often gives a poor impression compared with
      how
      >
      > you hear it live, but having done a belt conversion myself I would
      agree
      >
      > that the noise reduction is more pronounced in real life, the
      recording
      >
      > seems to reduce the gear noise in the "before" and over-emphasise the
      >
      > motor noise in the "after" recording.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > It is certainly a great improvement to the gear driv in the stock
      mill
      >
      > Not only in noise reduction but also smoothness and vibration. The
      >
      > increase in speed range is very welcome if you use small diameter
      mills
      >
      > or drills <1/8" ish but also eliminates the risk of breaking the
      plastic
      >
      > gears.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > I doubt ha there is much wrong with your mill, they are quite noisy
      >
      > due to the straight cut gears and if there was much up with your
      >
      > spindle bearings then this would show in vibration and chatter whilst
      >
      > cutting and you would spot it quite easily using a dial indicator.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > I think you idea of getting some experience with the stock set up is
      >
      > sound. In my experience the plastic gears are not as fragile as many
      >
      > people make out and with a little patience and care on the part of the
      >
      > operator they should last a long time. I ran my mill for 5 years
      before
      >
      > I did a belt conversion and a lot of useful work.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > When you do decide on a belt conversion you might like to consider a
      >
      > home made solution as by that time your machining skills will be well
      up
      >
      > to scratch.as it is not particularly difficult to do. The Stirling
      >
      > Steele conversion is a fine product and well proven but here in the UK
      >
      > when you allow for taxes and shipping it does become very expensive. I
      >
      > made mine largely from the scrap box with the most expense being a new
      >
      > Gates Truflex belt!
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Enjoy your machining
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Gerry w
      >
      > > Leeds UK
      >
      > >
      >
      > > To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > > From: clevinski@
      >
      > > Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 20:45:45 +0000
      >
      > > Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: What's causing this noise? It can't
      be
      >
      > good!
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Wow... that's impressive. Thanks for the link...
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Charlie
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "jonbru65" wrote:
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > Hi Charlie. This youtube video might give you an idea of the noise
      >
      > reduction. It's the best upgrade I have made on my machine.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsZTvvfe-3s
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > JB
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "CLevinski" wrote:
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > Thanks to you all for your comments. I have never actually
      tried
      >
      > to cut
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > anything running over 1000 RPM; in fact, I don't think I've ever
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > actually used it in high gear. Maybe I'll try milling some
      >
      > aluminum
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > with a 1/4" diameter end mill and see if the noise still occurs.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > That's an interesting observation regarding the motor speed; I
      >
      > think
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > it's running faster, but I'm not sure. I'll have to see if I
      have
      >
      > an
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > optical tachometer around here someplace that I can use to
      measure
      >
      > it.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > Regarding converting it to a belt drive, my plan was to consider
      >
      > doing
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > that after I got some more experience with the mill. My
      problem,
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > though, is that without knowing the source of the noise, I don't
      >
      > know if
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > the conversion will fix it. Is there any possibility that the
      >
      > noise
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > relates to the spindle bearings? If not, then I would know the
      >
      > belt
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > drive conversion would solve it, if nothing else.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > Thanks again,
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > Charlie
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
    • gerry waclawiak
      Hi Charlie, Although Real Bull mills are a lot more common in the UK than the US and have been around for several years I have never seen a belt drive
      Message 2 of 24 , May 23, 2013
      • 0 Attachment


        Hi Charlie,

        Although Real Bull mills are a lot more common in the UK than the US and have been around for several years I have never seen a belt drive conversion available commercially. Even for the Sieg versions we seem to be reliant on the import from the US of the Stirling Steele Kit. I made my own using the Hoss Machine plans for the X2 and I am sure you could adapt these to suit your RB if it came down to it.

        That said I recently attended a Model Engineering Exhibition at Harrogate in the UK, near where I live, and one of the Premier Annual Shows here.

        I came across a firm selling what looked to be Real Bull based mill with a belt drive. I asked the attendant and he told me they were going to sell a conversion kit for the gear drive versions for £80 (about $120 US) in the future but they were very usy so I didn't get any details.

        I attach a link to their website http://www.spgtools.com/viewtool.php?pid=109 that might be worth looking at and possibly following up with an e-mail about the kit

        Gerry W
        Leeds UK


        To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
        From: clevinski@...
        Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 02:38:25 +0000
        Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: What's causing this noise? It can't be good!

         
        Hi,

        I think I'm going to have to bite the bullet soon and do a belt drive
        conversion on my Real Bull mini-mill. I checked with Benchtop
        Precision, and they make a conversion kit for the Sieg, but it doesn't
        fit the Real Bull. So, unless someone is aware of a kit for the Real
        Bull, I'm going to have to do it myself. That's OK; the question is,
        does anyone have drawings for a RB conversion?

        BTW, I've heard that the Real Bull products are more popular in Europe,
        and the Sieg more popular here in the US. Maybe someone in Europe makes
        a conversion kit?

        Thanks,
        Charlie

        --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, gerry waclawiak wrote:
        >
        > Hi Charlie
        >
        > It takes the shine off your latest project when you look at things
        that way and figure that slavery pays better but the trith is you would
        need to pick your projects very carefully to make anything like a living
        with a mini-lathe. Often you'll pay more for the material than you could
        buy it for in a store but hey we do it for the fun and because we can
        right?!
        >
        > I.m daft enough to enjoy making small nuts and bolts for the fun of
        it.
        >
        > I had my mill for abot 3 years before I made a belt conversion so I
        was pretty competent at milling and turning on my mini-lathe and all
        the parts were made on those two machines over a weekend with nothing
        more complex than a boring bar on the lathe and a boring head and fly
        cutter in the mill. A fair bit of that time was spent modifying the
        design to make use of material from the scrap box, the spindle pulley
        for example was made as a composite of round bar and flat plate rather
        than turned from a solid (larger diameter/) bar and milling or fly
        cutting stock to size whilst this saved buying stock this added quite a
        lot of thinking and machining time.
        >
        >
        > The Sterling Steele kit is for SiegX2 based models only and I am not
        aware of any commercial product that would fit a Real Bull based
        mini-mill so "home brew" is your only option.
        >
        >
        > I had a lot of fun making it
        >
        >
        > Gerry W
        > Leeds UK
        >
        > To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
        > From: clevinski@...
        > Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 16:32:06 +0000
        > Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: What's causing this noise? It can't be
        good!
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Hi, Gerry,
        >
        >
        >
        > I agree with you about judging sound from video. In my case, the mill
        >
        > sounded a bit better on the video than it did in person.
        >
        >
        >
        > I find I am learning something new every time I work on a project, and
        >
        > want to get to the point where I would be comfortable making the
        >
        > conversion with relatively few major issues and without it taking
        >
        > forever. (I told my wife that if I were doing this for a living, we'd
        >
        > be broke. It took me two hours to put a .625" x .625" x .250 inch
        deep
        >
        > end on a piece of 1.250 diameter steel. That's, what? Maybe 12 cents
        >
        > an hour as piece work?!)
        >
        >
        >
        > I'm going to stick with it for now and continue to monitor it for any
        >
        > worsening of the sound, but I don't really expect any. Then, when I'm
        >
        > more proficient, I'll attempt the conversion. Since my mill is a Real
        >
        > Bull, I'm not sure if the Sterling Steele conversion would work
        without
        >
        > modification anyway, and doing the mod would be a good experience. I
        >
        > have the advantage of having access to a Bridgeport if I need to do
        some
        >
        > milling while mine is disassembled, though I hate working with other
        >
        > people's equipment; you never know where anything is.
        >
        >
        >
        > So thanks for your input and suggestions... it seems like I am on a
        >
        > reasonable path.
        >
        >
        >
        > Best regards,
        >
        > Charlie
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, gerry waclawiak
        >
        > wrote:
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Hi Charlie,
        >
        > >
        >
        > > I'm not a great fan of trying to judge sound from relatively poor
        >
        > quality recordings as it often gives a poor impression compared with
        how
        >
        > you hear it live, but having done a belt conversion myself I would
        agree
        >
        > that the noise reduction is more pronounced in real life, the
        recording
        >
        > seems to reduce the gear noise in the "before" and over-emphasise the
        >
        > motor noise in the "after" recording.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > It is certainly a great improvement to the gear driv in the stock
        mill
        >
        > Not only in noise reduction but also smoothness and vibration. The
        >
        > increase in speed range is very welcome if you use small diameter
        mills
        >
        > or drills <1/8" ish but also eliminates the risk of breaking the
        plastic
        >
        > gears.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > I doubt ha there is much wrong with your mill, they are quite noisy
        >
        > due to the straight cut gears and if there was much up with your
        >
        > spindle bearings then this would show in vibration and chatter whilst
        >
        > cutting and you would spot it quite easily using a dial indicator.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > I think you idea of getting some experience with the stock set up is
        >
        > sound. In my experience the plastic gears are not as fragile as many
        >
        > people make out and with a little patience and care on the part of the
        >
        > operator they should last a long time. I ran my mill for 5 years
        before
        >
        > I did a belt conversion and a lot of useful work.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > When you do decide on a belt conversion you might like to consider a
        >
        > home made solution as by that time your machining skills will be well
        up
        >
        > to scratch.as it is not particularly difficult to do. The Stirling
        >
        > Steele conversion is a fine product and well proven but here in the UK
        >
        > when you allow for taxes and shipping it does become very expensive. I
        >
        > made mine largely from the scrap box with the most expense being a new
        >
        > Gates Truflex belt!
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Enjoy your machining
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Gerry w
        >
        > > Leeds UK
        >
        > >
        >
        > > To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > > From: clevinski@
        >
        > > Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 20:45:45 +0000
        >
        > > Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: What's causing this noise? It can't
        be
        >
        > good!
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Wow... that's impressive. Thanks for the link...
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Charlie
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "jonbru65" wrote:
        >
        > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > Hi Charlie. This youtube video might give you an idea of the noise
        >
        > reduction. It's the best upgrade I have made on my machine.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsZTvvfe-3s
        >
        > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > JB
        >
        > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "CLevinski" wrote:
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > Thanks to you all for your comments. I have never actually
        tried
        >
        > to cut
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > anything running over 1000 RPM; in fact, I don't think I've ever
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > actually used it in high gear. Maybe I'll try milling some
        >
        > aluminum
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > with a 1/4" diameter end mill and see if the noise still occurs.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > That's an interesting observation regarding the motor speed; I
        >
        > think
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > it's running faster, but I'm not sure. I'll have to see if I
        have
        >
        > an
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > optical tachometer around here someplace that I can use to
        measure
        >
        > it.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > Regarding converting it to a belt drive, my plan was to consider
        >
        > doing
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > that after I got some more experience with the mill. My
        problem,
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > though, is that without knowing the source of the noise, I don't
        >
        > know if
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > the conversion will fix it. Is there any possibility that the
        >
        > noise
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > relates to the spindle bearings? If not, then I would know the
        >
        > belt
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > drive conversion would solve it, if nothing else.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > Thanks again,
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > Charlie
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > >
        >


      • CLevinski
        Hi, Gerry, That s extremely helpful! Thanks, I ll drop them an email and see what they say... Charlie ... conversion ... reliant ... belt ... in ...
        Message 3 of 24 , May 23, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi, Gerry,

          That's extremely helpful! Thanks, I'll drop them an email and see what
          they say...

          Charlie

          --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, gerry waclawiak wrote:
          >
          > Hi Charlie,
          >
          > Although
          > Real Bull mills are a lot more common in the UK than the US and have
          > been around for several years I have never seen a belt drive
          conversion
          > available commercially. Even for the Sieg versions we seem to be
          reliant
          > on the import from the US of the Stirling Steele Kit. I made my own
          > using the Hoss Machine plans for the X2 and I am sure you could adapt
          > these to suit your RB if it came down to it.
          >
          > That said I recently
          > attended a Model Engineering Exhibition at Harrogate in the UK, near
          > where I live, and one of the Premier Annual Shows here.
          >
          > I came
          > across a firm selling what looked to be Real Bull based mill with a
          belt
          > drive. I asked the attendant and he told me they were going to sell a
          > conversion kit for the gear drive versions for £80 (about $120 US)
          in
          > the future but they were very usy so I didn't get any details.
          >
          > I attach a link to their website
          http://www.spgtools.com/viewtool.php?pid=109 that might be worth looking
          at and possibly following up with an e-mail about the kit
          >
          > Gerry W
          > Leeds UK
          >
          > To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
          > From: clevinski@...
          > Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 02:38:25 +0000
          > Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: What's causing this noise? It can't be
          good!
          >
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          > Hi,
          >
          >
          >
          > I think I'm going to have to bite the bullet soon and do a belt drive
          >
          > conversion on my Real Bull mini-mill. I checked with Benchtop
          >
          > Precision, and they make a conversion kit for the Sieg, but it doesn't
          >
          > fit the Real Bull. So, unless someone is aware of a kit for the Real
          >
          > Bull, I'm going to have to do it myself. That's OK; the question is,
          >
          > does anyone have drawings for a RB conversion?
          >
          >
          >
          > BTW, I've heard that the Real Bull products are more popular in
          Europe,
          >
          > and the Sieg more popular here in the US. Maybe someone in Europe
          makes
          >
          > a conversion kit?
          >
          >
          >
          > Thanks,
          >
          > Charlie
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, gerry waclawiak wrote:
          >
          > >
          >
          > > Hi Charlie
          >
          > >
          >
          > > It takes the shine off your latest project when you look at things
          >
          > that way and figure that slavery pays better but the trith is you
          would
          >
          > need to pick your projects very carefully to make anything like a
          living
          >
          > with a mini-lathe. Often you'll pay more for the material than you
          could
          >
          > buy it for in a store but hey we do it for the fun and because we can
          >
          > right?!
          >
          > >
          >
          > > I.m daft enough to enjoy making small nuts and bolts for the fun of
          >
          > it.
          >
          > >
          >
          > > I had my mill for abot 3 years before I made a belt conversion so I
          >
          > was pretty competent at milling and turning on my mini-lathe and all
          >
          > the parts were made on those two machines over a weekend with nothing
          >
          > more complex than a boring bar on the lathe and a boring head and fly
          >
          > cutter in the mill. A fair bit of that time was spent modifying the
          >
          > design to make use of material from the scrap box, the spindle pulley
          >
          > for example was made as a composite of round bar and flat plate rather
          >
          > than turned from a solid (larger diameter/) bar and milling or fly
          >
          > cutting stock to size whilst this saved buying stock this added quite
          a
          >
          > lot of thinking and machining time.
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > The Sterling Steele kit is for SiegX2 based models only and I am not
          >
          > aware of any commercial product that would fit a Real Bull based
          >
          > mini-mill so "home brew" is your only option.
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > I had a lot of fun making it
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > Gerry W
          >
          > > Leeds UK
          >
          > >
          >
          > > To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > > From: clevinski@
          >
          > > Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 16:32:06 +0000
          >
          > > Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: What's causing this noise? It can't
          be
          >
          > good!
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
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          > >
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          > >
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          > >
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          > >
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          > >
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          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > Hi, Gerry,
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > I agree with you about judging sound from video. In my case, the
          mill
          >
          > >
          >
          > > sounded a bit better on the video than it did in person.
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > I find I am learning something new every time I work on a project,
          and
          >
          > >
          >
          > > want to get to the point where I would be comfortable making the
          >
          > >
          >
          > > conversion with relatively few major issues and without it taking
          >
          > >
          >
          > > forever. (I told my wife that if I were doing this for a living,
          we'd
          >
          > >
          >
          > > be broke. It took me two hours to put a .625" x .625" x .250 inch
          >
          > deep
          >
          > >
          >
          > > end on a piece of 1.250 diameter steel. That's, what? Maybe 12
          cents
          >
          > >
          >
          > > an hour as piece work?!)
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > I'm going to stick with it for now and continue to monitor it for
          any
          >
          > >
          >
          > > worsening of the sound, but I don't really expect any. Then, when
          I'm
          >
          > >
          >
          > > more proficient, I'll attempt the conversion. Since my mill is a
          Real
          >
          > >
          >
          > > Bull, I'm not sure if the Sterling Steele conversion would work
          >
          > without
          >
          > >
          >
          > > modification anyway, and doing the mod would be a good experience.
          I
          >
          > >
          >
          > > have the advantage of having access to a Bridgeport if I need to do
          >
          > some
          >
          > >
          >
          > > milling while mine is disassembled, though I hate working with other
          >
          > >
          >
          > > people's equipment; you never know where anything is.
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > So thanks for your input and suggestions... it seems like I am on a
          >
          > >
          >
          > > reasonable path.
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > Best regards,
          >
          > >
          >
          > > Charlie
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, gerry waclawiak
          >
          > >
          >
          > > wrote:
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > Hi Charlie,
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > I'm not a great fan of trying to judge sound from relatively poor
          >
          > >
          >
          > > quality recordings as it often gives a poor impression compared with
          >
          > how
          >
          > >
          >
          > > you hear it live, but having done a belt conversion myself I would
          >
          > agree
          >
          > >
          >
          > > that the noise reduction is more pronounced in real life, the
          >
          > recording
          >
          > >
          >
          > > seems to reduce the gear noise in the "before" and over-emphasise
          the
          >
          > >
          >
          > > motor noise in the "after" recording.
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > It is certainly a great improvement to the gear driv in the stock
          >
          > mill
          >
          > >
          >
          > > Not only in noise reduction but also smoothness and vibration. The
          >
          > >
          >
          > > increase in speed range is very welcome if you use small diameter
          >
          > mills
          >
          > >
          >
          > > or drills <1/8" ish but also eliminates the risk of breaking the
          >
          > plastic
          >
          > >
          >
          > > gears.
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > I doubt ha there is much wrong with your mill, they are quite
          noisy
          >
          > >
          >
          > > due to the straight cut gears and if there was much up with your
          >
          > >
          >
          > > spindle bearings then this would show in vibration and chatter
          whilst
          >
          > >
          >
          > > cutting and you would spot it quite easily using a dial indicator.
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > I think you idea of getting some experience with the stock set up
          is
          >
          > >
          >
          > > sound. In my experience the plastic gears are not as fragile as many
          >
          > >
          >
          > > people make out and with a little patience and care on the part of
          the
          >
          > >
          >
          > > operator they should last a long time. I ran my mill for 5 years
          >
          > before
          >
          > >
          >
          > > I did a belt conversion and a lot of useful work.
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > When you do decide on a belt conversion you might like to consider
          a
          >
          > >
          >
          > > home made solution as by that time your machining skills will be
          well
          >
          > up
          >
          > >
          >
          > > to scratch.as it is not particularly difficult to do. The Stirling
          >
          > >
          >
          > > Steele conversion is a fine product and well proven but here in the
          UK
          >
          > >
          >
          > > when you allow for taxes and shipping it does become very expensive.
          I
          >
          > >
          >
          > > made mine largely from the scrap box with the most expense being a
          new
          >
          > >
          >
          > > Gates Truflex belt!
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > Enjoy your machining
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > Gerry w
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > Leeds UK
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > From: clevinski@
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 20:45:45 +0000
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: What's causing this noise? It can't
          >
          > be
          >
          > >
          >
          > > good!
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
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          > >
          >
          > > >
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          > >
          >
          > > >
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          > >
          >
          > > >
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          > >
          >
          > > >
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          > >
          >
          > > >
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          > >
          >
          > > >
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          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
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          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
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          > > >
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          > >
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          > > >
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          > >
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          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > Wow... that's impressive. Thanks for the link...
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > Charlie
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "jonbru65" wrote:
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > > Hi Charlie. This youtube video might give you an idea of the
          noise
          >
          > >
          >
          > > reduction. It's the best upgrade I have made on my machine.
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsZTvvfe-3s
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > > JB
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "CLevinski" wrote:
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > > > Thanks to you all for your comments. I have never actually
          >
          > tried
          >
          > >
          >
          > > to cut
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > > > anything running over 1000 RPM; in fact, I don't think I've
          ever
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > > > actually used it in high gear. Maybe I'll try milling some
          >
          > >
          >
          > > aluminum
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > > > with a 1/4" diameter end mill and see if the noise still
          occurs.
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > > > That's an interesting observation regarding the motor speed; I
          >
          > >
          >
          > > think
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > > > it's running faster, but I'm not sure. I'll have to see if I
          >
          > have
          >
          > >
          >
          > > an
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > > > optical tachometer around here someplace that I can use to
          >
          > measure
          >
          > >
          >
          > > it.
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > > > Regarding converting it to a belt drive, my plan was to
          consider
          >
          > >
          >
          > > doing
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > > > that after I got some more experience with the mill. My
          >
          > problem,
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > > > though, is that without knowing the source of the noise, I
          don't
          >
          > >
          >
          > > know if
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > > > the conversion will fix it. Is there any possibility that the
          >
          > >
          >
          > > noise
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > > > relates to the spindle bearings? If not, then I would know
          the
          >
          > >
          >
          > > belt
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > > > drive conversion would solve it, if nothing else.
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > > > Thanks again,
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > > > Charlie
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
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