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Two Lathes

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  • Alan Reinhart
    I ve been looking hard at LMS s Hi-Torque mill & lathe, and while I believe their mill is still King of the Road , it seems Micro-Mark may have a bit of nicer
    Message 1 of 23 , May 16 4:50 AM
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      I’ve been looking hard at LMS’s Hi-Torque mill & lathe, and while I believe their mill is still “King of the Road”, it seems Micro-Mark may have a bit of nicer lathe. I’m sure it is yet-another Sieg variation, but does seem to pull together some nice features.  (No affiliation with either vendor).

       

      Any opinions?  :-)

       

      LMS 7x12:  http://tinyurl.com/b6rvvh4

       

      Micro-Mark 7x16:  http://tinyurl.com/7oqwrvh

    • BrianK
      As to the lathe, you might also look at the Lathemaster 8x14. I have the HF version for about five years now, which is identical, and at 180 or so pounds its a
      Message 2 of 23 , May 16 8:28 AM
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        As to the lathe, you might also look at the Lathemaster 8x14. I have the HF version for about five years now, which is identical, and at 180 or so pounds its a pretty husky piece of iron. I have parted off 3" pieces of 1018 and 4+" 6061 and it does it without a whimper. And it is not a Sieg mfg.  

        From: Alan Reinhart <avr@...>
        To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 7:50 AM
        Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Two Lathes
         
        I’ve been looking hard at LMS’s Hi-Torque mill & lathe, and while I believe their mill is still “King of the Road”, it seems Micro-Mark may have a bit of nicer lathe. I’m sure it is yet-another Sieg variation, but does seem to pull together some nice features.  (No affiliation with either vendor).
         
        Any opinions?  :-)
         
        LMS 7x12:  http://tinyurl.com/b6rvvh4
         
        Micro-Mark 7x16:  http://tinyurl.com/7oqwrvh
      • Rob Potter
        While I love LMS, bought their HiTorque mill, and continue to buy most of my tooling from them, I opted for the Micro-Mark 7x16 lathe primarily because the bed
        Message 3 of 23 , May 16 8:30 AM
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          While I love LMS, bought their HiTorque mill, and continue to buy most of my tooling from them, I opted for the Micro-Mark 7x16 lathe primarily because the bed was longer and the dials are ‘true inch’. I’ve had both machines for over a year now, and I haven’t been disappointed in either decision.

           

          Rob Potter

          Portland, Oregon

           

          From: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alan Reinhart
          Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 4:51 AM
          To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Two Lathes

           

           

          I’ve been looking hard at LMS’s Hi-Torque mill & lathe, and while I believe their mill is still “King of the Road”, it seems Micro-Mark may have a bit of nicer lathe. I’m sure it is yet-another Sieg variation, but does seem to pull together some nice features.  (No affiliation with either vendor).

           

          Any opinions?  :-)

           

          LMS 7x12:  http://tinyurl.com/b6rvvh4

           

          Micro-Mark 7x16:  http://tinyurl.com/7oqwrvh

        • Jeremy Winder
          If I had it to do again, I would go with the Grizzly g0704 mill and a lathe with a MT5 spindle taper. I have a g0704 and I love it. Have not ran into issues
          Message 4 of 23 , May 16 10:35 AM
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            If I had it to do again, I would go with the Grizzly g0704 mill and a lathe with a MT5 spindle taper.

            I have a g0704 and I love it. Have not ran into issues with it being too small. My 7x10 lathe always feels too small.
          • Alan Reinhart
            Heh – that would be awesome – and the 8.5 incher offered by LMS has had me lusting for it. BUT – price and space say I’m limited to the 7x series.
            Message 5 of 23 , May 16 12:52 PM
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              Heh – that would be awesome – and the 8.5 incher offered by LMS has had me lusting for it. BUT – price and space say I’m limited to the 7x series. 

               

              From: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of BrianK
              Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 11:29 AM
              To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [GrizHFMinimill] Two Lathes

               

               

              As to the lathe, you might also look at the Lathemaster 8x14. I have the HF version for about five years now, which is identical, and at 180 or so pounds its a pretty husky piece of iron. I have parted off 3" pieces of 1018 and 4+" 6061 and it does it without a whimper. And it is not a Sieg mfg.  

               

              From: Alan Reinhart <avr@...>
              To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 7:50 AM
              Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Two Lathes

               

              I’ve been looking hard at LMS’s Hi-Torque mill & lathe, and while I believe their mill is still “King of the Road”, it seems Micro-Mark may have a bit of nicer lathe. I’m sure it is yet-another Sieg variation, but does seem to pull together some nice features.  (No affiliation with either vendor).

               

              Any opinions?  :-)

               

               

              Micro-Mark 7x16:  http://tinyurl.com/7oqwrvh

            • Alan Reinhart
              My thoughts exactly! I m pretty new to this mini-world, and have been wondering what the deal is with the 16 TPI screws in so many of them. At least for the
              Message 6 of 23 , May 16 12:54 PM
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                My thoughts exactly!

                 

                I’m pretty new to this mini-world, and have been wondering what the deal is with the 16 TPI screws in so many of them…  At least for the US market (maybe UK as well) how hard would it be to offer the 20 TPI systems?

                 

                From: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob Potter
                Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 11:31 AM
                To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [GrizHFMinimill] Two Lathes

                 

                 

                While I love LMS, bought their HiTorque mill, and continue to buy most of my tooling from them, I opted for the Micro-Mark 7x16 lathe primarily because the bed was longer and the dials are ‘true inch’. I’ve had both machines for over a year now, and I haven’t been disappointed in either decision.

                 

                Rob Potter

                Portland, Oregon

                 

                From: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alan Reinhart
                Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 4:51 AM
                To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Two Lathes

                 

                 

                I’ve been looking hard at LMS’s Hi-Torque mill & lathe, and while I believe their mill is still “King of the Road”, it seems Micro-Mark may have a bit of nicer lathe. I’m sure it is yet-another Sieg variation, but does seem to pull together some nice features.  (No affiliation with either vendor).

                 

                Any opinions?  :-)

                 

                LMS 7x12:  http://tinyurl.com/b6rvvh4

                 

                Micro-Mark 7x16:  http://tinyurl.com/7oqwrvh

              • Alan Reinhart
                Ah yes again - there is always the cry/lust for Big Iron ! My 10 x10 computer-room, Arduino lab, and soon mini machine shop is about busting at the seams
                Message 7 of 23 , May 16 12:56 PM
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                  Ah yes again – there is always the cry/lust for “Big Iron”!   My 10’x10’ computer-room, Arduino lab, and soon mini machine shop is about busting at the seams now – so no big stuff will be here.   :-(

                   

                   

                   

                  From: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Winder
                  Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 1:36 PM
                  To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [GrizHFMinimill] Two Lathes

                   

                   

                  If I had it to do again, I would go with the Grizzly g0704 mill and a lathe with a MT5 spindle taper.

                  I have a g0704 and I love it. Have not ran into issues with it being too small. My 7x10 lathe always feels too small.

                • canada.rephil
                  ... 16 TPI is not that unusual for Imperial equipment. 20 works out nicer if you re counting turns in 50 thou increments, but a 16 TPI leadscrew gives you
                  Message 8 of 23 , May 16 8:13 PM
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                    --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Reinhart" <avr@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > My thoughts exactly!
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I'm pretty new to this mini-world, and have been wondering what the deal is
                    > with the 16 TPI screws in so many of them. At least for the US market
                    > (maybe UK as well) how hard would it be to offer the 20 TPI systems?

                    16 TPI is not that unusual for Imperial equipment. 20 works out nicer if you're counting turns in 50 thou increments, but a 16 TPI leadscrew gives you 1/16 per turn. For woodworking stuff, you can argue it's handier.

                    I have a 1953 Kempsmith horizontal mill (4000 lbs., No. 2, horizontal spindle, etc.) that gives you .125 per rev on the knee. It's awkward if you're trying to creep away using .050 cuts, but nice if you take off 1/8 at a time. I know that's not a mini-mill thing, just illustrating that it's not limited to mini-mills.

                    Anyway, get an iGaging or other DRO and you'll never look at the dial again!

                    Cheers,
                    Phil M
                  • gerry waclawiak
                    You will find that the majority of the Chinese Hobby machines are designed as metric machines (as China itself and most of the world work in metric). The
                    Message 9 of 23 , May 17 12:52 AM
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                      You will find that the majority of the Chinese Hobby machines are designed as metric machines (as China itself and most of the world work in metric). The threads that you assume to be 16tpi are in fact generally a metric thread of 1.5mm pitch.
                      The Imperial market is only a part (and shrinking) part of the market and to pander to this the dials are generally calibrated in close Imperial calibrations (or sometimes dual markings) on the standard to them metric threads. The lathes will generally have a 1mm pitch thread on lead screws and the imperial version marked as 0.040" (actually 0.03937". Mill threads will be 1.5mm pitch and marked 0.060" (0.0591")

                      In the US particularly, some vendors have commissioned machines with genuine Imperial screws and dials assume people are prepared to pay a premium for a proper imperial calibrated machine

                      Here in the UK we have been notionally metric for 40 odd years and whilst Imperial lingers on (especially true of model engineering where participants tend toward elderly) demand is steadily declining as people brought up in metric enter the hobby. The same is true of many of the old "British Empire" counties as they have generally changed also.

                      In the US as long as people are prepared to pay for the privilege Imperial machines will be available but as the world increasingly adopts metric as the common standard you will inevitably have to pay more for that privilege

                      Gerry W
                      Leeds UK




                      To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                      From: phil@...
                      Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 03:13:55 +0000
                      Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: Two Lathes

                       


                      --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Reinhart" <avr@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > My thoughts exactly!
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I'm pretty new to this mini-world, and have been wondering what the deal is
                      > with the 16 TPI screws in so many of them. At least for the US market
                      > (maybe UK as well) how hard would it be to offer the 20 TPI systems?

                      16 TPI is not that unusual for Imperial equipment. 20 works out nicer if you're counting turns in 50 thou increments, but a 16 TPI leadscrew gives you 1/16 per turn. For woodworking stuff, you can argue it's handier.

                      I have a 1953 Kempsmith horizontal mill (4000 lbs., No. 2, horizontal spindle, etc.) that gives you .125 per rev on the knee. It's awkward if you're trying to creep away using .050 cuts, but nice if you take off 1/8 at a time. I know that's not a mini-mill thing, just illustrating that it's not limited to mini-mills.

                      Anyway, get an iGaging or other DRO and you'll never look at the dial again!

                      Cheers,
                      Phil M


                    • David Wiseman
                      My workshop is about the same size as yours and my 7 sits there a bit lonesome, it has a drill press and bench to keep it company along with many tools.
                      Message 10 of 23 , May 17 2:18 AM
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                        My workshop is about the same size as yours and my 7 sits there a bit lonesome, it has a drill press and bench to keep it company along with many tools. Something like a Colchester Bantham would fit in nicely and be very useful. Can't really justify the expenditure though for the use it would actually get. OTOH my electronics den complete with PCB etching bath in a separate smaller room is a lot bigger 12' * 18', silicon chips tend to get lot in there. very comfortable if cold due to being old stone build.


                        Thursday, May 16, 2013, 8:56:37 PM, you wrote:

                        >

                        > Ah yes again – there is always the cry/lust for “Big Iron”! My
                        > 10’x10’ computer-room, Arduino lab, and soon mini machine shop is
                        > about busting at the seams now – so no big stuff will be here.
                        >


                        --
                        Best regards,
                        David Wiseman
                      • sandybarrie
                        Hi, sorry… America has NEVER been in Imperial Measure…. NEVER… they kept the same measure they had when they separated from Britain in 1776 or when ever
                        Message 11 of 23 , May 17 2:21 AM
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                          Hi,

                          sorry… America has NEVER been in Imperial Measure…. NEVER… they kept the same measure they had when they separated from Britain in 1776 or when ever they set op their own weights an measure cast shortly there after. 

                          Imperial measure was brought in in 1827… as an attempt to get back at the Metric measure brought in in 1818 in france, but worked on for a long time earlier… 

                          there is a difference between the English inch, and the American inch, by only the slightest fraction. not really enough to make much of a difference for any engineer today, but still a difference… but the American Gallon is aprox 20% shorter than the English IMPERIAL gallon…  (The english also brought in Avoirdupois weights… where as the American Kept Troy weights. The english Now only use Troy weights for Gemstones, precious metals & Gunpowder…)

                          there was a fascinating article, in a Popular Mechanics issue, I believe from the 1950's, on how the English spies who were trying to get copies of the Metric systems, which had not at that napoleoniec time been standardised… but got it wrong. the english then tried to come up witsh a weights & measure that would be devisable into the metric measure, well the prototypes that the spies brought back, but got it all wrong…  (my grandfather left me Popular Mechanics from 1914 to 1960's.. but sadly all lost in the Ipswich floods of 2011.)

                          sorry, of this slight interruption sidelight…

                          Regards, Sandy


                          On 17/05/2013, at 5:52 PM, gerry waclawiak <gerrywac@...> wrote:

                           

                          You will find that the majority of the Chinese Hobby machines are designed as metric machines (as China itself and most of the world work in metric). The threads that you assume to be 16tpi are in fact generally a metric thread of 1.5mm pitch.
                          The Imperial market is only a part (and shrinking) part of the market and to pander to this the dials are generally calibrated in close Imperial calibrations (or sometimes dual markings) on the standard to them metric threads. The lathes will generally have a 1mm pitch thread on lead screws and the imperial version marked as 0.040" (actually 0.03937". Mill threads will be 1.5mm pitch and marked 0.060" (0.0591")

                          In the US particularly, some vendors have commissioned machines with genuine Imperial screws and dials assume people are prepared to pay a premium for a proper imperial calibrated machine

                          Here in the UK we have been notionally metric for 40 odd years and whilst Imperial lingers on (especially true of model engineering where participants tend toward elderly) demand is steadily declining as people brought up in metric enter the hobby. The same is true of many of the old "British Empire" counties as they have generally changed also.

                          In the US as long as people are prepared to pay for the privilege Imperial machines will be available but as the world increasingly adopts metric as the common standard you will inevitably have to pay more for that privilege

                          Gerry W
                          Leeds UK




                          To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                          From: phil@...
                          Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 03:13:55 +0000
                          Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: Two Lathes

                           


                          --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Reinhart" <avr@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > My thoughts exactly!
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > I'm pretty new to this mini-world, and have been wondering what the deal is
                          > with the 16 TPI screws in so many of them. At least for the US market
                          > (maybe UK as well) how hard would it be to offer the 20 TPI systems?

                          16 TPI is not that unusual for Imperial equipment. 20 works out nicer if you're counting turns in 50 thou increments, but a 16 TPI leadscrew gives you 1/16 per turn. For woodworking stuff, you can argue it's handier.

                          I have a 1953 Kempsmith horizontal mill (4000 lbs., No. 2, horizontal spindle, etc.) that gives you .125 per rev on the knee. It's awkward if you're trying to creep away using .050 cuts, but nice if you take off 1/8 at a time. I know that's not a mini-mill thing, just illustrating that it's not limited to mini-mills.

                          Anyway, get an iGaging or other DRO and you'll never look at the dial again!

                          Cheers,
                          Phil M




                          Sandy Barrie.

                          Vintage Graphics.
                          ABN  15 182 803 759
                          Po Box 425
                          Booval
                          Qld. 4304
                          Australia
                          Ph. 61-7-38160341

                          kodakery@...

                          Honorary Life member, Australian Institute of Professional Photography.

                        • Alan Reinhart
                          Ah yes - Thanks Gerry! I sort of had the suspicion that metric was the root of it all. To this 70 year old it is a bit of a wake-up call to hear that the
                          Message 12 of 23 , May 17 3:42 AM
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                            Ah yes -  Thanks Gerry!

                             

                            I sort of had the suspicion that metric was the root of it all.  To this 70 year old it is a bit of a wake-up call to hear that the beloved Imperial system is fading so… but really not a total surprise.  I always have understood metric is a far sweeter system. Problems ONLY occur when one attempts to move between the two.  If one stays within a given system (it is ‘just measuring with a different stick’), metric IS far easier to use.   Heh – the stuffy U.S. STILL hasn’t embraced soccer yet either…

                             

                            =Alan R.

                             

                            From: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gerry waclawiak
                            Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 3:53 AM
                            To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: Two Lathes

                             

                             

                            You will find that the majority of the Chinese Hobby machines are designed as metric machines (as China itself and most of the world work in metric). The threads that you assume to be 16tpi are in fact generally a metric thread of 1.5mm pitch.
                            The Imperial market is only a part (and shrinking) part of the market and to pander to this the dials are generally calibrated in close Imperial calibrations (or sometimes dual markings) on the standard to them metric threads. The lathes will generally have a 1mm pitch thread on lead screws and the imperial version marked as 0.040" (actually 0.03937". Mill threads will be 1.5mm pitch and marked 0.060" (0.0591")

                            In the US particularly, some vendors have commissioned machines with genuine Imperial screws and dials assume people are prepared to pay a premium for a proper imperial calibrated machine

                            Here in the UK we have been notionally metric for 40 odd years and whilst Imperial lingers on (especially true of model engineering where participants tend toward elderly) demand is steadily declining as people brought up in metric enter the hobby. The same is true of many of the old "British Empire" counties as they have generally changed also.

                            In the US as long as people are prepared to pay for the privilege Imperial machines will be available but as the world increasingly adopts metric as the common standard you will inevitably have to pay more for that privilege

                            Gerry W
                            Leeds UK


                            To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                            From: phil@...
                            Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 03:13:55 +0000
                            Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: Two Lathes

                             



                            --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Reinhart" <avr@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > My thoughts exactly!
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > I'm pretty new to this mini-world, and have been wondering what the deal is
                            > with the 16 TPI screws in so many of them. At least for the US market
                            > (maybe UK as well) how hard would it be to offer the 20 TPI systems?

                            16 TPI is not that unusual for Imperial equipment. 20 works out nicer if you're counting turns in 50 thou increments, but a 16 TPI leadscrew gives you 1/16 per turn. For woodworking stuff, you can argue it's handier.

                            I have a 1953 Kempsmith horizontal mill (4000 lbs., No. 2, horizontal spindle, etc.) that gives you .125 per rev on the knee. It's awkward if you're trying to creep away using .050 cuts, but nice if you take off 1/8 at a time. I know that's not a mini-mill thing, just illustrating that it's not limited to mini-mills.

                            Anyway, get an iGaging or other DRO and you'll never look at the dial again!

                            Cheers,
                            Phil M

                          • bonif51
                            I agree Rob. In fact, I probably could have written your exact reply! :) I bought the MicroMark 7 x 16 because of the longer 16 inch bed and having used it for
                            Message 13 of 23 , May 17 8:59 AM
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                              I agree Rob. In fact, I probably could have written your exact reply! :)
                              I bought the MicroMark 7 x 16 because of the longer 16 inch bed and having used it for almost a year, can't see ever being satisfied with anything less. For me the extra bed length is the major feature (along with the brushless motor shared with the LMS HiTorque) that really sets this lathe apart from the other 7x variants.
                              For me, I also find the true-inch dials are easier to use than the ones on the mill but that was easily solved by adding DRO scales on the solid column mill.

                              Robert

                              --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Potter" <rob@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > While I love LMS, bought their HiTorque mill, and continue to buy most of my
                              > tooling from them, I opted for the Micro-Mark 7x16 lathe primarily because
                              > the bed was longer and the dials are 'true inch'. I've had both machines for
                              > over a year now, and I haven't been disappointed in either decision.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Rob Potter
                              >
                              > Portland, Oregon
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > From: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com]
                              > On Behalf Of Alan Reinhart
                              > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 4:51 AM
                              > To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Two Lathes
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > I've been looking hard at LMS's Hi-Torque mill & lathe, and while I believe
                              > their mill is still "King of the Road", it seems Micro-Mark may have a bit
                              > of nicer lathe. I'm sure it is yet-another Sieg variation, but does seem to
                              > pull together some nice features. (No affiliation with either vendor).
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Any opinions? :-)
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > LMS 7x12: http://tinyurl.com/b6rvvh4
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Micro-Mark 7x16: http://tinyurl.com/7oqwrvh
                              >
                            • gerry waclawiak
                              The discussion arose in the context of mini-lathes and tpi not measurement systems generally. AFAIK and all the searches I have done the inch is an inch all
                              Message 14 of 23 , May 17 9:51 AM
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                                The discussion arose in the context of mini-lathes and tpi not measurement systems generally.

                                AFAIK and all the searches I have done the inch is an inch all over the world and standardised at 25.4mm for conversion to metric.

                                The fact is that metric is the major global system and in the ascendancy, all others are in decline and the cost of manufacturing these industrially will become less competitive as there will not be the same economies of scale.

                                Gerry W
                                Leeds UK



                                To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                                From: apbarrie@...
                                Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 19:21:06 +1000
                                Subject: Re: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: Two Lathes

                                 
                                Hi,

                                sorry… America has NEVER been in Imperial Measure…. NEVER… they kept the same measure they had when they separated from Britain in 1776 or when ever they set op their own weights an measure cast shortly there after. 

                                Imperial measure was brought in in 1827… as an attempt to get back at the Metric measure brought in in 1818 in france, but worked on for a long time earlier… 

                                there is a difference between the English inch, and the American inch, by only the slightest fraction. not really enough to make much of a difference for any engineer today, but still a difference… but the American Gallon is aprox 20% shorter than the English IMPERIAL gallon…  (The english also brought in Avoirdupois weights… where as the American Kept Troy weights. The english Now only use Troy weights for Gemstones, precious metals & Gunpowder…)

                                there was a fascinating article, in a Popular Mechanics issue, I believe from the 1950's, on how the English spies who were trying to get copies of the Metric systems, which had not at that napoleoniec time been standardised… but got it wrong. the english then tried to come up witsh a weights & measure that would be devisable into the metric measure, well the prototypes that the spies brought back, but got it all wrong…  (my grandfather left me Popular Mechanics from 1914 to 1960's.. but sadly all lost in the Ipswich floods of 2011.)

                                sorry, of this slight interruption sidelight…

                                Regards, Sandy


                                On 17/05/2013, at 5:52 PM, gerry waclawiak <gerrywac@...> wrote:

                                 

                                You will find that the majority of the Chinese Hobby machines are designed as metric machines (as China itself and most of the world work in metric). The threads that you assume to be 16tpi are in fact generally a metric thread of 1.5mm pitch.
                                The Imperial market is only a part (and shrinking) part of the market and to pander to this the dials are generally calibrated in close Imperial calibrations (or sometimes dual markings) on the standard to them metric threads. The lathes will generally have a 1mm pitch thread on lead screws and the imperial version marked as 0.040" (actually 0.03937". Mill threads will be 1.5mm pitch and marked 0.060" (0.0591")

                                In the US particularly, some vendors have commissioned machines with genuine Imperial screws and dials assume people are prepared to pay a premium for a proper imperial calibrated machine

                                Here in the UK we have been notionally metric for 40 odd years and whilst Imperial lingers on (especially true of model engineering where participants tend toward elderly) demand is steadily declining as people brought up in metric enter the hobby. The same is true of many of the old "British Empire" counties as they have generally changed also.

                                In the US as long as people are prepared to pay for the privilege Imperial machines will be available but as the world increasingly adopts metric as the common standard you will inevitably have to pay more for that privilege

                                Gerry W
                                Leeds UK




                                To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                                From: phil@...
                                Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 03:13:55 +0000
                                Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: Two Lathes

                                 


                                --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Reinhart" <avr@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > My thoughts exactly!
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > I'm pretty new to this mini-world, and have been wondering what the deal is
                                > with the 16 TPI screws in so many of them. At least for the US market
                                > (maybe UK as well) how hard would it be to offer the 20 TPI systems?

                                16 TPI is not that unusual for Imperial equipment. 20 works out nicer if you're counting turns in 50 thou increments, but a 16 TPI leadscrew gives you 1/16 per turn. For woodworking stuff, you can argue it's handier.

                                I have a 1953 Kempsmith horizontal mill (4000 lbs., No. 2, horizontal spindle, etc.) that gives you .125 per rev on the knee. It's awkward if you're trying to creep away using .050 cuts, but nice if you take off 1/8 at a time. I know that's not a mini-mill thing, just illustrating that it's not limited to mini-mills.

                                Anyway, get an iGaging or other DRO and you'll never look at the dial again!

                                Cheers,
                                Phil M




                                Sandy Barrie.

                                Vintage Graphics.
                                ABN  15 182 803 759
                                Po Box 425
                                Booval
                                Qld. 4304
                                Australia
                                Ph. 61-7-38160341

                                kodakery@...

                                Honorary Life member, Australian Institute of Professional Photography.


                              • gerry waclawiak
                                I am rather more challenged for space as my workshop is only about 8 x6 , in what we Brits comically call a 3rd bedroom more a cupboard or walk-in wardrobe
                                Message 15 of 23 , May 17 10:13 AM
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I am rather more challenged for space as my workshop is only about 8'x6", in what we Brits comically call a 3rd "bedroom" more a cupboard or walk-in wardrobe in some other countries

                                  I have managed to cram in a mini lathe, mini mill, 6" vice and 12" multi shear/roll/bender  6"x4" bandsaw and a desk and with a central standing area it all works quite well for one person.

                                  Larger machinery is definitely not on the agenda !


                                  Gerry W
                                  Leeds UK



                                  > To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                                  > From: david@...
                                  > Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 10:17:57 +0059
                                  > Subject: Re[2]: [GrizHFMinimill] Two Lathes
                                  >
                                  > My workshop is about the same size as yours and my 7 sits there a bit lonesome, it has a drill press and bench to keep it company along with many tools. Something like a Colchester Bantham would fit in nicely and be very useful. Can't really justify the expenditure though for the use it would actually get. OTOH my electronics den complete with PCB etching bath in a separate smaller room is a lot bigger 12' * 18', silicon chips tend to get lot in there. very comfortable if cold due to being old stone build.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Thursday, May 16, 2013, 8:56:37 PM, you wrote:
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Ah yes again – there is always the cry/lust for “Big Iron”! My
                                  > > 10’x10’ computer-room, Arduino lab, and soon mini machine shop is
                                  > > about busting at the seams now – so no big stuff will be here.
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --
                                  > Best regards,
                                  > David Wiseman
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GrizHFMinimill/
                                  >
                                  > <*> Your email settings:
                                  > Individual Email | Traditional
                                  >
                                  > <*> To change settings online go to:
                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GrizHFMinimill/join
                                  > (Yahoo! ID required)
                                  >
                                  > <*> To change settings via email:
                                  > GrizHFMinimill-digest@yahoogroups.com
                                  > GrizHFMinimill-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                                  >
                                  > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                  > GrizHFMinimill-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  >
                                  > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                  > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                  >
                                • Malcolm Parker-Lisberg
                                  America has started the transition to metric, and it is only a matter of time when it will be completed, see
                                  Message 16 of 23 , May 17 10:15 AM
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    America has started the transition to metric, and it is only a matter of time when it will be completed, see
                                    <http://www.nist.gov/pml/wmd/metric/upload/1136a.pdf>
                                    In 1968 Congress commissioned a study and report, The final report of the study, “A Metric
                                    America: A Decision Whose Time Has Come,” concluded that the U.S. would eventually join the rest of the world in the use of the metric system of measurement.
                                    With a majority of the population being numerate, the transition would be uncomplicated.
                                    Any one old enough and numerate enough to have been through the transition in the UK operates happily in both systems.
                                    If you do any serious modelling you need to be proficient in both as many old model drawings have to be adapted to metric sized material supplies. Many imperial supplies in the UK, where available, cost much more that the metric equivalent.
                                    The Chinese have their own weight measurement of the 'jin' but happily adapted to the metric system. 

                                    Malcolm

                                    I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
                                    Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
                                    The writing is on the wall.

                                    --- On Fri, 5/17/13, gerry waclawiak <gerrywac@...> wrote:

                                    From: gerry waclawiak <gerrywac@...>
                                    Subject: RE: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: Two Lathes
                                    To: "GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com" <grizhfminimill@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Date: Friday, May 17, 2013, 5:51 PM

                                     

                                    The discussion arose in the context of mini-lathes and tpi not measurement systems generally.

                                    AFAIK and all the searches I have done the inch is an inch all over the world and standardised at 25.4mm for conversion to metric.

                                    The fact is that metric is the major global system and in the ascendancy, all others are in decline and the cost of manufacturing these industrially will become less competitive as there will not be the same economies of scale.

                                    Gerry W
                                    Leeds UK



                                    To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                                    From: apbarrie@...
                                    Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 19:21:06 +1000
                                    Subject: Re: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: Two Lathes

                                     
                                    Hi,

                                    sorry… America has NEVER been in Imperial Measure…. NEVER… they kept the same measure they had when they separated from Britain in 1776 or when ever they set op their own weights an measure cast shortly there after. 

                                    Imperial measure was brought in in 1827… as an attempt to get back at the Metric measure brought in in 1818 in france, but worked on for a long time earlier… 

                                    there is a difference between the English inch, and the American inch, by only the slightest fraction. not really enough to make much of a difference for any engineer today, but still a difference… but the American Gallon is aprox 20% shorter than the English IMPERIAL gallon…  (The english also brought in Avoirdupois weights… where as the American Kept Troy weights. The english Now only use Troy weights for Gemstones, precious metals & Gunpowder…)

                                    there was a fascinating article, in a Popular Mechanics issue, I believe from the 1950's, on how the English spies who were trying to get copies of the Metric systems, which had not at that napoleoniec time been standardised… but got it wrong. the english then tried to come up witsh a weights & measure that would be devisable into the metric measure, well the prototypes that the spies brought back, but got it all wrong…  (my grandfather left me Popular Mechanics from 1914 to 1960's.. but sadly all lost in the Ipswich floods of 2011.)

                                    sorry, of this slight interruption sidelight…

                                    Regards, Sandy


                                    On 17/05/2013, at 5:52 PM, gerry waclawiak <gerrywac@...> wrote:

                                     

                                    You will find that the majority of the Chinese Hobby machines are designed as metric machines (as China itself and most of the world work in metric). The threads that you assume to be 16tpi are in fact generally a metric thread of 1.5mm pitch.
                                    The Imperial market is only a part (and shrinking) part of the market and to pander to this the dials are generally calibrated in close Imperial calibrations (or sometimes dual markings) on the standard to them metric threads. The lathes will generally have a 1mm pitch thread on lead screws and the imperial version marked as 0.040" (actually 0.03937". Mill threads will be 1.5mm pitch and marked 0.060" (0.0591")

                                    In the US particularly, some vendors have commissioned machines with genuine Imperial screws and dials assume people are prepared to pay a premium for a proper imperial calibrated machine

                                    Here in the UK we have been notionally metric for 40 odd years and whilst Imperial lingers on (especially true of model engineering where participants tend toward elderly) demand is steadily declining as people brought up in metric enter the hobby. The same is true of many of the old "British Empire" counties as they have generally changed also.

                                    In the US as long as people are prepared to pay for the privilege Imperial machines will be available but as the world increasingly adopts metric as the common standard you will inevitably have to pay more for that privilege

                                    Gerry W
                                    Leeds UK




                                    To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                                    From: phil@...
                                    Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 03:13:55 +0000
                                    Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: Two Lathes

                                     


                                    --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Reinhart" <avr@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > My thoughts exactly!
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > I'm pretty new to this mini-world, and have been wondering what the deal is
                                    > with the 16 TPI screws in so many of them. At least for the US market
                                    > (maybe UK as well) how hard would it be to offer the 20 TPI systems?

                                    16 TPI is not that unusual for Imperial equipment. 20 works out nicer if you're counting turns in 50 thou increments, but a 16 TPI leadscrew gives you 1/16 per turn. For woodworking stuff, you can argue it's handier.

                                    I have a 1953 Kempsmith horizontal mill (4000 lbs., No. 2, horizontal spindle, etc.) that gives you .125 per rev on the knee. It's awkward if you're trying to creep away using .050 cuts, but nice if you take off 1/8 at a time. I know that's not a mini-mill thing, just illustrating that it's not limited to mini-mills.

                                    Anyway, get an iGaging or other DRO and you'll never look at the dial again!

                                    Cheers,
                                    Phil M




                                    Sandy Barrie.

                                    Vintage Graphics.
                                    ABN  15 182 803 759
                                    Po Box 425
                                    Booval
                                    Qld. 4304
                                    Australia
                                    Ph. 61-7-38160341

                                    kodakery@...

                                    Honorary Life member, Australian Institute of Professional Photography.


                                  • Goran Hosinsky
                                    Gerry, it would be nice to see a drawing how you have arranged that workshop. Goran Canary Islands ... Gerry, it would be nice to see a drawing how you have
                                    Message 17 of 23 , May 17 1:08 PM
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Gerry, it would be nice to see a drawing how you have arranged that workshop.

                                      Goran
                                      Canary Islands
                                      On 2013-05-17 18:13, gerry waclawiak wrote:
                                       

                                      I am rather more challenged for space as my workshop is only about 8'x6", in what we Brits comically call a 3rd "bedroom" more a cupboard or walk-in wardrobe in some other countries

                                      I have managed to cram in a mini lathe, mini mill, 6" vice and 12" multi shear/roll/bender 
                                      6"x4" bandsaw and a desk and with a central standing area it all works quite well for one person.

                                      Larger machinery is definitely not on the agenda !


                                      Gerry W
                                      Leeds UK



                                      > To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                                      > From: david@...
                                      > Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 10:17:57 +0059
                                      > Subject: Re[2]: [GrizHFMinimill] Two Lathes
                                      >
                                      > My workshop is about the same size as yours and my 7 sits there a bit lonesome, it has a drill press and bench to keep it company along with many tools. Something like a Colchester Bantham would fit in nicely and be very useful. Can't really justify the expenditure though for the use it would actually get. OTOH my electronics den complete with PCB etching bath in a separate smaller room is a lot bigger 12' * 18', silicon chips tend to get lot in there. very comfortable if cold due to being old stone build.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Thursday, May 16, 2013, 8:56:37 PM, you wrote:
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > Ah yes again – there is always the cry/lust for “Big Iron”! My
                                      > > 10’x10’ computer-room, Arduino lab, and soon mini machine shop is
                                      > > about busting at the seams now – so no big stuff will be here.
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --
                                      > Best regards,
                                      > David Wiseman
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ------------------------------------
                                      >
                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
                                      > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GrizHFMinimill/
                                      >
                                      > <*> Your email settings:
                                      > Individual Email | Traditional
                                      >
                                      > <*> To change settings online go to:
                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GrizHFMinimill/join
                                      > (Yahoo! ID required)
                                      >
                                      > <*> To change settings via email:
                                      > GrizHFMinimill-digest@yahoogroups.com
                                      > GrizHFMinimill-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                                      >
                                      > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                      > GrizHFMinimill-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                      >
                                      > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                      >

                                    • gerry waclawiak
                                      Hi Goran, I ll see if I can send one as a PM over the weekend Gerry W Leeds UK To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com CC: hosinsky@8gh.com From: hosinsky@8gh.com
                                      Message 18 of 23 , May 17 1:18 PM
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Hi Goran,

                                        I'll see if I can send one as a PM over the weekend

                                        Gerry W
                                        Leeds UK




                                        To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                                        CC: hosinsky@...
                                        From: hosinsky@...
                                        Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 21:08:38 +0100
                                        Subject: Re: [GrizHFMinimill] Two Lathes

                                         
                                        Gerry, it would be nice to see a drawing how you have arranged that workshop.

                                        Goran
                                        Canary Islands

                                        On 2013-05-17 18:13, gerry waclawiak wrote:
                                         

                                        I am rather more challenged for space as my workshop is only about 8'x6", in what we Brits comically call a 3rd "bedroom" more a cupboard or walk-in wardrobe in some other countries

                                        I have managed to cram in a mini lathe, mini mill, 6" vice and 12" multi shear/roll/bender 
                                        6"x4" bandsaw and a desk and with a central standing area it all works quite well for one person.

                                        Larger machinery is definitely not on the agenda !


                                        Gerry W
                                        Leeds UK



                                        > To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                                        > From: david@...
                                        > Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 10:17:57 +0059
                                        > Subject: Re[2]: [GrizHFMinimill] Two Lathes
                                        >
                                        > My workshop is about the same size as yours and my 7 sits there a bit lonesome, it has a drill press and bench to keep it company along with many tools. Something like a Colchester Bantham would fit in nicely and be very useful. Can't really justify the expenditure though for the use it would actually get. OTOH my electronics den complete with PCB etching bath in a separate smaller room is a lot bigger 12' * 18', silicon chips tend to get lot in there. very comfortable if cold due to being old stone build.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Thursday, May 16, 2013, 8:56:37 PM, you wrote:
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        > > Ah yes again – there is always the cry/lust for “Big Iron”! My
                                        > > 10’x10’ computer-room, Arduino lab, and soon mini machine shop is
                                        > > about busting at the seams now – so no big stuff will be here.
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --
                                        > Best regards,
                                        > David Wiseman
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ------------------------------------
                                        >
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GrizHFMinimill/
                                        >
                                        > <*> Your email settings:
                                        > Individual Email | Traditional
                                        >
                                        > <*> To change settings online go to:
                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GrizHFMinimill/join
                                        > (Yahoo! ID required)
                                        >
                                        > <*> To change settings via email:
                                        > GrizHFMinimill-digest@yahoogroups.com
                                        > GrizHFMinimill-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                                        >
                                        > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                        > GrizHFMinimill-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                        >
                                        > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                        >


                                      • SirJohnOfYork
                                        In the meantime, American mechanics, professional or back yard, have learned to have full sets of all tooling in both metric and inch. Today s cars STILL have
                                        Message 19 of 23 , May 17 1:30 PM
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                           In the meantime, American mechanics, professional or back yard, have learned to have full sets of all tooling in both metric and inch. Today's cars STILL have a mix of inch and metric hardware. Little by little more metric, but the day does appear to be far off for the need to have inch based tooling to disappear. In a few more generations perhaps. Oh, wait - a lot of people LIKE old cars and actually collect and restore them! Never mind. :-)

                                          On 5/17/2013 1:15 PM, Malcolm Parker-Lisberg wrote:
                                           

                                          America has started the transition to metric, and it is only a matter of time when it will be completed, see
                                          <http://www.nist.gov/pml/wmd/metric/upload/1136a.pdf>
                                          In 1968 Congress commissioned a study and report, The final report of the study, “A Metric
                                          America: A Decision Whose Time Has Come,” concluded that the U.S. would eventually join the rest of the world in the use of the metric system of measurement.
                                          With a majority of the population being numerate, the transition would be uncomplicated.
                                          Any one old enough and numerate enough to have been through the transition in the UK operates happily in both systems.
                                          If you do any serious modelling you need to be proficient in both as many old model drawings have to be adapted to metric sized material supplies. Many imperial supplies in the UK, where available, cost much more that the metric equivalent.
                                          The Chinese have their own weight measurement of the 'jin' but happily adapted to the metric system. 

                                          Malcolm

                                          I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
                                          Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
                                          The writing is on the wall.

                                          --- On Fri, 5/17/13, gerry waclawiak <gerrywac@...> wrote:

                                          From: gerry waclawiak <gerrywac@...>
                                          Subject: RE: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: Two Lathes
                                          To: "GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com" <grizhfminimill@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Date: Friday, May 17, 2013, 5:51 PM

                                           

                                          The discussion arose in the context of mini-lathes and tpi not measurement systems generally.

                                          AFAIK and all the searches I have done the inch is an inch all over the world and standardised at 25.4mm for conversion to metric.

                                          The fact is that metric is the major global system and in the ascendancy, all others are in decline and the cost of manufacturing these industrially will become less competitive as there will not be the same economies of scale.

                                          Gerry W
                                          Leeds UK



                                          To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                                          From: apbarrie@...
                                          Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 19:21:06 +1000
                                          Subject: Re: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: Two Lathes

                                           
                                          Hi,

                                          sorry… America has NEVER been in Imperial Measure…. NEVER… they kept the same measure they had when they separated from Britain in 1776 or when ever they set op their own weights an measure cast shortly there after. 

                                          Imperial measure was brought in in 1827… as an attempt to get back at the Metric measure brought in in 1818 in france, but worked on for a long time earlier… 

                                          there is a difference between the English inch, and the American inch, by only the slightest fraction. not really enough to make much of a difference for any engineer today, but still a difference… but the American Gallon is aprox 20% shorter than the English IMPERIAL gallon…  (The english also brought in Avoirdupois weights… where as the American Kept Troy weights. The english Now only use Troy weights for Gemstones, precious metals & Gunpowder…)

                                          there was a fascinating article, in a Popular Mechanics issue, I believe from the 1950's, on how the English spies who were trying to get copies of the Metric systems, which had not at that napoleoniec time been standardised… but got it wrong. the english then tried to come up witsh a weights & measure that would be devisable into the metric measure, well the prototypes that the spies brought back, but got it all wrong…  (my grandfather left me Popular Mechanics from 1914 to 1960's.. but sadly all lost in the Ipswich floods of 2011.)

                                          sorry, of this slight interruption sidelight…

                                          Regards, Sandy


                                          On 17/05/2013, at 5:52 PM, gerry waclawiak <gerrywac@...> wrote:

                                           

                                          You will find that the majority of the Chinese Hobby machines are designed as metric machines (as China itself and most of the world work in metric). The threads that you assume to be 16tpi are in fact generally a metric thread of 1.5mm pitch.
                                          The Imperial market is only a part (and shrinking) part of the market and to pander to this the dials are generally calibrated in close Imperial calibrations (or sometimes dual markings) on the standard to them metric threads. The lathes will generally have a 1mm pitch thread on lead screws and the imperial version marked as 0.040" (actually 0.03937". Mill threads will be 1.5mm pitch and marked 0.060" (0.0591")

                                          In the US particularly, some vendors have commissioned machines with genuine Imperial screws and dials assume people are prepared to pay a premium for a proper imperial calibrated machine

                                          Here in the UK we have been notionally metric for 40 odd years and whilst Imperial lingers on (especially true of model engineering where participants tend toward elderly) demand is steadily declining as people brought up in metric enter the hobby. The same is true of many of the old "British Empire" counties as they have generally changed also.

                                          In the US as long as people are prepared to pay for the privilege Imperial machines will be available but as the world increasingly adopts metric as the common standard you will inevitably have to pay more for that privilege

                                          Gerry W
                                          Leeds UK




                                          To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                                          From: phil@...
                                          Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 03:13:55 +0000
                                          Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: Two Lathes

                                           


                                          --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Reinhart" <avr@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > My thoughts exactly!
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > I'm pretty new to this mini-world, and have been wondering what the deal is
                                          > with the 16 TPI screws in so many of them. At least for the US market
                                          > (maybe UK as well) how hard would it be to offer the 20 TPI systems?

                                          16 TPI is not that unusual for Imperial equipment. 20 works out nicer if you're counting turns in 50 thou increments, but a 16 TPI leadscrew gives you 1/16 per turn. For woodworking stuff, you can argue it's handier.

                                          I have a 1953 Kempsmith horizontal mill (4000 lbs., No. 2, horizontal spindle, etc.) that gives you .125 per rev on the knee. It's awkward if you're trying to creep away using .050 cuts, but nice if you take off 1/8 at a time. I know that's not a mini-mill thing, just illustrating that it's not limited to mini-mills.

                                          Anyway, get an iGaging or other DRO and you'll never look at the dial again!

                                          Cheers,
                                          Phil M




                                          Sandy Barrie.

                                          Vintage Graphics.
                                          ABN  15 182 803 759
                                          Po Box 425
                                          Booval
                                          Qld. 4304
                                          Australia
                                          Ph. 61-7-38160341

                                          kodakery@...

                                          Honorary Life member, Australian Institute of Professional Photography.



                                        • Malcolm Parker-Lisberg
                                          Old engineering designs were over-engineered and made to last, the parts for some heritage vehicles are less expensive (relatively) now than they were when
                                          Message 20 of 23 , May 19 10:22 AM
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Old engineering designs were over-engineered and made to last, the parts for some heritage vehicles are less expensive (relatively) now than they were when new, but they are in the bottom of the bathtub price curve.
                                            This means that the imperial threaded part will become more difficult to obtain and be more expensive, so stock up now.

                                            Old bolts never die, they just rust away.

                                            Malcolm

                                            I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
                                            Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
                                            The writing is on the wall.

                                            --- On Fri, 5/17/13, SirJohnOfYork <steelchipper@...> wrote:

                                            From: SirJohnOfYork <steelchipper@...>
                                            Subject: Re: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: Two Lathes
                                            To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                                            Date: Friday, May 17, 2013, 9:30 PM

                                             

                                             In the meantime, American mechanics, professional or back yard, have learned to have full sets of all tooling in both metric and inch. Today's cars STILL have a mix of inch and metric hardware. Little by little more metric, but the day does appear to be far off for the need to have inch based tooling to disappear. In a few more generations perhaps. Oh, wait - a lot of people LIKE old cars and actually collect and restore them! Never mind. :-)

                                            On 5/17/2013 1:15 PM, Malcolm Parker-Lisberg wrote:
                                             

                                            America has started the transition to metric, and it is only a matter of time when it will be completed, see
                                            <http://www.nist.gov/pml/wmd/metric/upload/1136a.pdf>
                                            In 1968 Congress commissioned a study and report, The final report of the study, “A Metric
                                            America: A Decision Whose Time Has Come,” concluded that the U.S. would eventually join the rest of the world in the use of the metric system of measurement.
                                            With a majority of the population being numerate, the transition would be uncomplicated.
                                            Any one old enough and numerate enough to have been through the transition in the UK operates happily in both systems.
                                            If you do any serious modelling you need to be proficient in both as many old model drawings have to be adapted to metric sized material supplies. Many imperial supplies in the UK, where available, cost much more that the metric equivalent.
                                            The Chinese have their own weight measurement of the 'jin' but happily adapted to the metric system. 

                                            Malcolm

                                            I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
                                            Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
                                            The writing is on the wall.

                                            --- On Fri, 5/17/13, gerry waclawiak <gerrywac@...> wrote:

                                            From: gerry waclawiak <gerrywac@...>
                                            Subject: RE: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: Two Lathes
                                            To: "GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com" <grizhfminimill@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Date: Friday, May 17, 2013, 5:51 PM

                                             

                                            The discussion arose in the context of mini-lathes and tpi not measurement systems generally.

                                            AFAIK and all the searches I have done the inch is an inch all over the world and standardised at 25.4mm for conversion to metric.

                                            The fact is that metric is the major global system and in the ascendancy, all others are in decline and the cost of manufacturing these industrially will become less competitive as there will not be the same economies of scale.

                                            Gerry W
                                            Leeds UK



                                            To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                                            From: apbarrie@...
                                            Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 19:21:06 +1000
                                            Subject: Re: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: Two Lathes

                                             
                                            Hi,

                                            sorry… America has NEVER been in Imperial Measure…. NEVER… they kept the same measure they had when they separated from Britain in 1776 or when ever they set op their own weights an measure cast shortly there after. 

                                            Imperial measure was brought in in 1827… as an attempt to get back at the Metric measure brought in in 1818 in france, but worked on for a long time earlier… 

                                            there is a difference between the English inch, and the American inch, by only the slightest fraction. not really enough to make much of a difference for any engineer today, but still a difference… but the American Gallon is aprox 20% shorter than the English IMPERIAL gallon…  (The english also brought in Avoirdupois weights… where as the American Kept Troy weights. The english Now only use Troy weights for Gemstones, precious metals & Gunpowder…)

                                            there was a fascinating article, in a Popular Mechanics issue, I believe from the 1950's, on how the English spies who were trying to get copies of the Metric systems, which had not at that napoleoniec time been standardised… but got it wrong. the english then tried to come up witsh a weights & measure that would be devisable into the metric measure, well the prototypes that the spies brought back, but got it all wrong…  (my grandfather left me Popular Mechanics from 1914 to 1960's.. but sadly all lost in the Ipswich floods of 2011.)

                                            sorry, of this slight interruption sidelight…

                                            Regards, Sandy


                                            On 17/05/2013, at 5:52 PM, gerry waclawiak <gerrywac@...> wrote:

                                             

                                            You will find that the majority of the Chinese Hobby machines are designed as metric machines (as China itself and most of the world work in metric). The threads that you assume to be 16tpi are in fact generally a metric thread of 1.5mm pitch.
                                            The Imperial market is only a part (and shrinking) part of the market and to pander to this the dials are generally calibrated in close Imperial calibrations (or sometimes dual markings) on the standard to them metric threads. The lathes will generally have a 1mm pitch thread on lead screws and the imperial version marked as 0.040" (actually 0.03937". Mill threads will be 1.5mm pitch and marked 0.060" (0.0591")

                                            In the US particularly, some vendors have commissioned machines with genuine Imperial screws and dials assume people are prepared to pay a premium for a proper imperial calibrated machine

                                            Here in the UK we have been notionally metric for 40 odd years and whilst Imperial lingers on (especially true of model engineering where participants tend toward elderly) demand is steadily declining as people brought up in metric enter the hobby. The same is true of many of the old "British Empire" counties as they have generally changed also.

                                            In the US as long as people are prepared to pay for the privilege Imperial machines will be available but as the world increasingly adopts metric as the common standard you will inevitably have to pay more for that privilege

                                            Gerry W
                                            Leeds UK




                                            To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                                            From: phil@...
                                            Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 03:13:55 +0000
                                            Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: Two Lathes

                                             


                                            --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Reinhart" <avr@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > My thoughts exactly!
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > I'm pretty new to this mini-world, and have been wondering what the deal is
                                            > with the 16 TPI screws in so many of them. At least for the US market
                                            > (maybe UK as well) how hard would it be to offer the 20 TPI systems?

                                            16 TPI is not that unusual for Imperial equipment. 20 works out nicer if you're counting turns in 50 thou increments, but a 16 TPI leadscrew gives you 1/16 per turn. For woodworking stuff, you can argue it's handier.

                                            I have a 1953 Kempsmith horizontal mill (4000 lbs., No. 2, horizontal spindle, etc.) that gives you .125 per rev on the knee. It's awkward if you're trying to creep away using .050 cuts, but nice if you take off 1/8 at a time. I know that's not a mini-mill thing, just illustrating that it's not limited to mini-mills.

                                            Anyway, get an iGaging or other DRO and you'll never look at the dial again!

                                            Cheers,
                                            Phil M




                                            Sandy Barrie.

                                            Vintage Graphics.
                                            ABN  15 182 803 759
                                            Po Box 425
                                            Booval
                                            Qld. 4304
                                            Australia
                                            Ph. 61-7-38160341

                                            kodakery@...

                                            Honorary Life member, Australian Institute of Professional Photography.



                                          • NastyGash
                                            We Yanks use oz Avoirdupois for all but precious metals, etc, where we use oz Troy. I d wager that most Yanks who don t dabble in p.m. don t even know what a
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Jun 23, 2013
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                                              We Yanks use oz Avoirdupois for all but precious metals, etc, where we use oz Troy. I'd wager that most Yanks who don't dabble in p.m. don't even know what a Troy ounce (or ozt) is; nor what "Avoirdupois" is. To most of us, an "ounce" (weight) is an ounce Avoirdupois.


                                              --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, sandybarrie <apbarrie@...> wrote:
                                              >

                                              > there is a difference between the English inch, and the American inch, by only the slightest fraction. not really enough to make much of a difference for any engineer today, but still a difference… but the American Gallon is aprox 20% shorter than the English IMPERIAL gallon… (The english also brought in Avoirdupois weights… where as the American Kept Troy weights. The english Now only use Troy weights for Gemstones, precious metals & Gunpowder…)
                                              >
                                              >
                                            • Barry Young
                                              Since the Mendenhall Order on April 5, 1893, the United States has essentially been a metric country. The official definition of an inch is 25.4mm since that
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Jun 23, 2013
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                                                Since the Mendenhall Order on April 5, 1893, the United States has essentially been a metric country. The official definition of an inch is 25.4mm since that time. When talking about ounces, one must remember that the measurement could be defining volume or weight. 

                                                Just as rods and chains are used in surveying, ounces Troy are used for weights of precious metals, Ounces Avoirdupois are used for most other small weights except in chemistry and pharmacy which uses all metric weights now. Both are parts of the Inch Pound System often incorrectly called "English", "Standard", or even worse "SAE"

                                                I would wager that England has also tied their traditional inch/pound measures to metric standards as well. 


                                                From: NastyGash <nastygash@...>
                                                To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 7:29 AM
                                                Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: Two Lathes

                                                We Yanks use oz Avoirdupois for all but precious metals, etc, where we use oz Troy.  I'd wager that most Yanks who don't dabble in p.m. don't even know what a Troy ounce (or ozt) is; nor what "Avoirdupois" is.  To most of us, an "ounce" (weight) is an ounce Avoirdupois.


                                                --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, sandybarrie <apbarrie@...> wrote:
                                                >

                                                > there is a difference between the English inch, and the American inch, by only the slightest fraction. not really enough to make much of a difference for any engineer today, but still a difference… but the American Gallon is aprox 20% shorter than the English IMPERIAL gallon…  (The english also brought in Avoirdupois weights… where as the American Kept Troy weights. The english Now only use Troy weights for Gemstones, precious metals & Gunpowder…)
                                                >
                                                >



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                                              • Dick Damian
                                                I worked as an engine engineer at Ford Motor company in the 1970 s. Design drawings were in metric many years before my time. If you buy an engine bolt at an
                                                Message 23 of 23 , Jun 24, 2013
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                                                  I worked as an engine engineer at Ford Motor company in the 1970's. Design drawings were in metric many years before my time.
                                                  If you buy an engine bolt at an auto parts store, they may specify it in English units, but trust that it was designed and built in metric.

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