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Re: [GrizHFMinimill] Is the G0704 a good mill?

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  • Jeremy Winder
    Thank you for the reply. As for what I m going to use it for, I m not really sure myself. The projects I currently have in mind fit the work envelope with room
    Message 1 of 15 , Mar 1, 2013
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      Thank you for the reply.

      As for what I'm going to use it for, I'm not really sure myself. The projects I currently have in mind fit the work envelope with room to spare and are mostly aluminum. However, I discovered with my 7x10 lathe, once I have a capability I find more and more projects to do. And them seem to get bigger and bigger.

      Can I assume from your comments that that G0704 does have a rigidity problem when cutting steel? Can this be overcome by stiffening the column and/or shallower cuts? Is the issue in the column or in the bed as well?

      Thanks again,

      Jeremy
    • Dale E
      Hi, I ve owned my 704 for just over a year now. I find it to be a good choice for me. I think it has a couple of pluses going for it that the Seigs don t have.
      Message 2 of 15 , Mar 1, 2013
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        Hi,

        I've owned my 704 for just over a year now. I find it to be a good choice for me. I think it has a couple of pluses going for it that the Seigs don't have. I like the tapered gibs on all axis. A much better setup than flat gibs. I also like the the work envelope.  Particularly the nearly 7" of y axis travel. Again, you need to go to a much larger machine to do as well or better.

        I have not difficulty with rigidity. Of course it's not a 6000lbs machining center. But I can still take .100" deep cuts in mild steel with a 3/4" endmill. A 2" single point fly cutter doing a light finish pass is the limit though.

        What I am less than impressed with is the motor. the "1hp" brushed DC motor, like all of it's ilk, does lack for torque at low speeds. But that is simply the nature of such motors.

        What really bothers me about the motor is the lack of cooling. The motor has no fan to pull air through it. Then they put it inside of a poorly vented can. I have added a 120V pancake fan to help cool the motor during use. It does help. Some have even added aluminum fins for a heatsink and added thermal overloads to the brushes to shut the motor down if it gets too hot.

        But to be honest, the motor has done everything I have asked it to do without complaint. So maybe I'm making much ado about nothing. I can't really say.

        Overall, I think the G0704 is a good choice for many. A noticeable step up from an X2 and in my opinion, a better designed and built machine than the X/SX3. I would buy my mill again.

        Dale


        On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 1:26 AM, Barry Young <barryjyoung@...> wrote:
         

        Hi Jeremy:

        The G0704 was the mill I chose last month after very intensely analyzing the available offerings in the sub $1500 models. I don't think anything even comes close for what I do.

        As with any machine purchase, what you intend to make has everything to do with which machine you need. If you are making anything bigger than a breadbox this mill is too small. If you work mostly with steel rather than aluminum, get a more rigid, heavy and expensive machine. 

        I am planning on many mods of my G0704, not because the machine is inadequate, but simply to increase the capabilities of the machine. I intend to build custom brackets from the mill to the wall to improve rigidity, change to belt drive, add a power drawbar and do a CNC conversion. The one complaint I have is that Grizzly has backordered two replacement intermediate gears (I broke the plastic intermediate gear on the first cut while testing to see how big a cut this thing could take in aluminum), and also they have backordered two of the large hand wheels used on the Z axis which I am replacing the stock X and Y axis hand wheels with. This has very much increased the smoothness I can move the table with because I can easily apply more torque on the larger hand wheels. Grizzly did send me one intermediate gear, and it was only $10, but as easily as these strip, they should have had a couple hundred in stock. The belt drive will eliminate this problem. 

        Barry Young






        From: cptwinderatgmaildotcom <cptwinder@...>
        To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 6:36 PM
        Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Is the G0704 a good mill?

        As I stated in my last message, I'm looking at the Grizzly g0704 mill. Given its $1000 - $1500 price range, is this the best mill to go with?

        I understand "best" is subjective; however, I'm trying to avoid the "its too small" mistake I made with my 7x10 lathe, while at the same time I don't want to get something that doesn't have any rigidity.

        Googling the G0704 and the BF-20 it is based on, I don't seem to find a lot in the way of modifications or complaints. I'm taking this as the mill doesn't need a lot of modifications and people are generally happy using it for hobby use.

        Thanks again,

        Jeremy



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      • Jeremy Winder
        Thanks for the information Dale. Unless someone posts something extremely negative between now and then, I m going to place the order tonight. As for the
        Message 3 of 15 , Mar 1, 2013
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          Thanks for the information Dale. Unless someone posts something extremely negative between now and then, I'm going to place the order tonight.

          As for the thermal overload protection mod, is there a webpage someplace describing it? A quick Google search and I didn't find it.

          Thanks again,

          Jeremy
        • Dale E
          Hi, Few owners complain about rigidity problems with the 704, at least far fewer than Seig owners. Hence, there isn t really any info on stiffening out there.
          Message 4 of 15 , Mar 1, 2013
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            Hi,

            Few owners complain about rigidity problems with the 704, at least far fewer than Seig owners. Hence, there isn't really any info on stiffening out there. Whether this is due to materials mostly used or other factors, can be open to debate. It is probably a 'your mileage may vary' thing.

            How you set up a part to mill will greatly affect stiffness. The object is to keep tooling and spindle as short as possible. So I try very hard to keep parts as low to the table as possible to keep the head to the bottom of the column. I also drop the head to do roughing cuts and then use the spindle fine feed for final finishing cuts.

            As I said, I can get a 3/4" endmill to take .100" full width cut in mild steel with no problems at a 1" to 1 1/2" inch per minute feed rate. But I do pay attention to making the best set up I can. After that, it's a matter of how fast you think you need to move metal. Need to do it fast? You will need to more mass and power. If you have time, like most hobbyists  have, then you can afford to go slower.

            Fly cutters are really only meant for light finishing cuts, of .020" or less. They can even make a full sized mill hammer. Biggest problem with such cutters is lack of torque at low speeds. And not rigidity.

            Dale


            On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 7:42 AM, Jeremy Winder <cptwinder@...> wrote:
             

            Thank you for the reply.

            As for what I'm going to use it for, I'm not really sure myself. The projects I currently have in mind fit the work envelope with room to spare and are mostly aluminum. However, I discovered with my 7x10 lathe, once I have a capability I find more and more projects to do. And them seem to get bigger and bigger.

            Can I assume from your comments that that G0704 does have a rigidity problem when cutting steel? Can this be overcome by stiffening the column and/or shallower cuts? Is the issue in the column or in the bed as well?

            Thanks again,

            Jeremy


          • cnc sales
            All of these are light hobby tools. Any shortcomings can be overcome, any of them, by applying sufficient amounts of mass, rigidity and engineering. I did this
            Message 5 of 15 , Mar 1, 2013
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              All of these are light hobby tools.
              Any shortcomings can be overcome, any of them, by applying sufficient amounts of mass, rigidity and engineering.

              I did this with a Bp as a base.


               
              Thank you for the reply.

              As for what I'm going to use it for, I'm not really sure myself. The projects I currently have in mind fit the work envelope with room to spare and are mostly aluminum. However, I discovered with my 7x10 lathe, once I have a capability I find more and more projects to do. And them seem to get bigger and bigger.

              Can I assume from your comments that that G0704 does have a rigidity problem when cutting steel? Can this be overcome by stiffening the column and/or shallower cuts? Is the issue in the column or in the bed as well?

              Thanks again,

              Jeremy


              -- 
              -hanermo
              
            • cnc sales
              Excellent post from Dave. I agree 100%. ... -- -hanermo
              Message 6 of 15 , Mar 1, 2013
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                Excellent post from Dave.
                I agree 100%.


                 
                Hi,

                I've owned my 704 for just over a year now. I find it to be a good choice for me. I think it has a couple of pluses going for it that the Seigs don't have. I like the tapered gibs on all axis. A much better setup than flat gibs. I also like the the work envelope.  Particularly the nearly 7" of y axis travel. Again, you need to go to a much larger machine to do as well or better.

                I have not difficulty with rigidity. Of course it's not a 6000lbs machining center. But I can still take .100" deep cuts in mild steel with a 3/4" endmill. A 2" single point fly cutter doing a light finish pass is the limit though.

                What I am less than impressed with is the motor. the "1hp" brushed DC motor, like all of it's ilk, does lack for torque at low speeds. But that is simply the nature of such motors.

                What really bothers me about the motor is the lack of cooling. The motor has no fan to pull air through it. Then they put it inside of a poorly vented can. I have added a 120V pancake fan to help cool the motor during use. It does help. Some have even added aluminum fins for a heatsink and added thermal overloads to the brushes to shut the motor down if it gets too hot.

                But to be honest, the motor has done everything I have asked it to do without complaint. So maybe I'm making much ado about nothing. I can't really say.

                Overall, I think the G0704 is a good choice for many. A noticeable step up from an X2 and in my opinion, a better designed and built machine than the X/SX3. I would buy my mill again.

                Dale


                -- 
                -hanermo
                
              • Ebner Heating Air Conditioning Co.
                If machinery amazes you guys like it does me then you need to see this video. This is the mother of all vertical mills
                Message 7 of 15 , Mar 1, 2013
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                  Message
                   
                  If machinery amazes you guys like it does me then you need to see this video. This is the mother of all vertical mills http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn7tsNG6pyo
                   
                   
                  Mike
                   
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cnc sales
                  Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 11:45 AM
                  To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [GrizHFMinimill] Is the G0704 a good mill?

                   

                  All of these are light hobby tools.
                  Any shortcomings can be overcome, any of them, by applying sufficient amounts of mass, rigidity and engineering.

                  I did this with a Bp as a base.


                   
                  Thank you for the reply.

                  As for what I'm going to use it for, I'm not really sure myself. The projects I currently have in mind fit the work envelope with room to spare and are mostly aluminum. However, I discovered with my 7x10 lathe, once I have a capability I find more and more projects to do. And them seem to get bigger and bigger.

                  Can I assume from your comments that that G0704 does have a rigidity problem when cutting steel? Can this be overcome by stiffening the column and/or shallower cuts? Is the issue in the column or in the bed as well?

                  Thanks again,

                  Jeremy


                  -- 
                  -hanermo
                  

                  No virus found in this message.
                  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                  Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2641/6136 - Release Date: 02/27/13

              • wturchyn
                I don t have one of these G0704 mills, but I WANT one! Versions of this mill also available from: www.machinetoolswarehouse.com www.machinetoolonline.com
                Message 8 of 15 , Mar 1, 2013
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                  I don't have one of these G0704 mills, but I WANT one!
                  Versions of this mill also available from:
                  www.machinetoolswarehouse.com
                  www.machinetoolonline.com


                  --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, Dale E <dalee1002000@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi,
                  >
                  > Few owners complain about rigidity problems with the 704, at least far
                  > fewer than Seig owners. Hence, there isn't really any info on stiffening
                  > out there. Whether this is due to materials mostly used or other factors,
                  > can be open to debate. It is probably a 'your mileage may vary' thing.
                  >
                  > How you set up a part to mill will greatly affect stiffness. The object is
                  > to keep tooling and spindle as short as possible. So I try very hard to
                  > keep parts as low to the table as possible to keep the head to the bottom
                  > of the column. I also drop the head to do roughing cuts and then use the
                  > spindle fine feed for final finishing cuts.
                  >
                  > As I said, I can get a 3/4" endmill to take .100" full width cut in mild
                  > steel with no problems at a 1" to 1 1/2" inch per minute feed rate. But I
                  > do pay attention to making the best set up I can. After that, it's a matter
                  > of how fast you think you need to move metal. Need to do it fast? You will
                  > need to more mass and power. If you have time, like most hobbyists have,
                  > then you can afford to go slower.
                  >
                  > Fly cutters are really only meant for light finishing cuts, of .020" or
                  > less. They can even make a full sized mill hammer. Biggest problem with
                  > such cutters is lack of torque at low speeds. And not rigidity.
                  >
                  > Dale
                  >
                  >
                  > On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 7:42 AM, Jeremy Winder <cptwinder@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > **
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Thank you for the reply.
                  > >
                  > > As for what I'm going to use it for, I'm not really sure myself. The
                  > > projects I currently have in mind fit the work envelope with room to spare
                  > > and are mostly aluminum. However, I discovered with my 7x10 lathe, once I
                  > > have a capability I find more and more projects to do. And them seem to get
                  > > bigger and bigger.
                  > >
                  > > Can I assume from your comments that that G0704 does have a rigidity
                  > > problem when cutting steel? Can this be overcome by stiffening the column
                  > > and/or shallower cuts? Is the issue in the column or in the bed as well?
                  > >
                  > > Thanks again,
                  > >
                  > > Jeremy
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                • burgercs
                  Interesting discussion. I had been casually looking for a while for a used bench-top mill, but never found anything I liked. I decided that buying new was
                  Message 9 of 15 , Mar 2, 2013
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                    Interesting discussion. I had been casually looking for a while for a used bench-top mill, but never found anything I liked. I decided that buying new was maybe the better route. I have more selection, and I know what I'll get will be in good condition. The purchasing process is also a lot easier. You call them, hand over a credit card number and wait until the truck shows up.

                    I started looking at the LMS mill with the solid column, but started to do search for other options as well. I ended up putting a spreadsheet together comparing about 20 models of mini mills and mill/drill models. I have all the usual suspects on there from LMS, HF, Micro-Mark, a few options from Wholesale Tool Company, but Grizzly is dominating my table. The only mini mill I am really considering is the LMS. However, although I don't have any specific projects planned, I am afraid that I would run into size limitations a lot sooner than I'd like and started to focus on mills a size or two up.

                    After I was done with my comparison, I mentally settled on the Grizzly G0705. That's a good size and real heavy-duty machine for the price (including the stand, an option I like). After setting this topic aside for a few days and then going back to it, I started considering the G0755, quite a bit more expensive, but probably more accurate, a tilting head and more size capacity. Wow, almost 1000 lbs, though. After thinking about that for a while I figure that may be more than I need for most I would ever do and went back to my table again. I currently have the G0704 at the top of my list. It looks like it has a decent size but still compact, tilting head, comes with a stand and is very reasonable priced. Really not that much more expensive than the LMS, but quite a bit more capacity and capability. I am going to think about it for a couple more weeks, but plan to order something soon.


                    Clemens



                    --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, Barry Young <barryjyoung@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Jeremy:
                    >
                    > The G0704 was the mill I chose last month after very intensely analyzing the available offerings in the sub $1500 models. I don't think anything even comes close for what I do.
                    >
                    > As with any machine purchase, what you intend to make has everything to do with which machine you need. If you are making anything bigger than a breadbox this mill is too small. If you work mostly with steel rather than aluminum, get a more rigid, heavy and expensive machine. 
                    >
                    > I am planning on many mods of my G0704, not because the machine is inadequate, but simply to increase the capabilities of the machine. I intend to build custom brackets from the mill to the wall to improve rigidity, change to belt drive, add a power drawbar and do a CNC conversion. The one complaint I have is that Grizzly has backordered two replacement intermediate gears (I broke the plastic intermediate gear on the first cut while testing to see how big a cut this thing could take in aluminum), and also they have backordered two of the large hand wheels used on the Z axis which I am replacing the stock X and Y axis hand wheels with. This has very much increased the smoothness I can move the table with because I can easily apply more torque on the larger hand wheels. Grizzly did send me one intermediate gear, and it was only $10, but as easily as these strip, they should have had a couple hundred in stock. The belt drive will eliminate this problem. 
                    >
                    > Barry Young
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: cptwinderatgmaildotcom <cptwinder@...>
                    > To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 6:36 PM
                    > Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Is the G0704 a good mill?
                    >
                    > As I stated in my last message, I'm looking at the Grizzly g0704 mill. Given its $1000 - $1500 price range, is this the best mill to go with?
                    >
                    > I understand "best" is subjective; however, I'm trying to avoid the "its too small" mistake I made with my 7x10 lathe, while at the same time I don't want to get something that doesn't have any rigidity.
                    >
                    > Googling the G0704 and the BF-20 it is based on, I don't seem to find a lot in the way of modifications or complaints. I'm taking this as the mill doesn't need a lot of modifications and people are generally happy using it for hobby use.
                    >
                    > Thanks again,
                    >
                    > Jeremy
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                  • burgercs
                    Just in case others are interested in my comparison, I uploaded my file to the File section as Mill Specifications - Overview_01MAR2013.xlsx . Clemens
                    Message 10 of 15 , Mar 2, 2013
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                      Just in case others are interested in my comparison, I uploaded my file to the File section as 'Mill Specifications - Overview_01MAR2013.xlsx'.

                      Clemens

                      --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "burgercs" <burgerc@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Interesting discussion. I had been casually looking for a while for a used bench-top mill, but never found anything I liked. I decided that buying new was maybe the better route. I have more selection, and I know what I'll get will be in good condition. The purchasing process is also a lot easier. You call them, hand over a credit card number and wait until the truck shows up.
                      >
                      > I started looking at the LMS mill with the solid column, but started to do search for other options as well. I ended up putting a spreadsheet together comparing about 20 models of mini mills and mill/drill models. I have all the usual suspects on there from LMS, HF, Micro-Mark, a few options from Wholesale Tool Company, but Grizzly is dominating my table. The only mini mill I am really considering is the LMS. However, although I don't have any specific projects planned, I am afraid that I would run into size limitations a lot sooner than I'd like and started to focus on mills a size or two up.
                      >
                      > After I was done with my comparison, I mentally settled on the Grizzly G0705. That's a good size and real heavy-duty machine for the price (including the stand, an option I like). After setting this topic aside for a few days and then going back to it, I started considering the G0755, quite a bit more expensive, but probably more accurate, a tilting head and more size capacity. Wow, almost 1000 lbs, though. After thinking about that for a while I figure that may be more than I need for most I would ever do and went back to my table again. I currently have the G0704 at the top of my list. It looks like it has a decent size but still compact, tilting head, comes with a stand and is very reasonable priced. Really not that much more expensive than the LMS, but quite a bit more capacity and capability. I am going to think about it for a couple more weeks, but plan to order something soon.
                      >
                      >
                      > Clemens
                    • kaje7777
                      Impressive video. Amazing to see it take such deep cuts without coolant or lubricant. Think I can get one of those at HF with a 20% off coupon?
                      Message 11 of 15 , Mar 2, 2013
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                        Impressive video. Amazing to see it take such deep cuts without coolant or lubricant.

                        Think I can get one of those at HF with a 20% off coupon?

                        --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "Ebner Heating Air Conditioning Co." <mike@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > If machinery amazes you guys like it does me then you need to see this
                        > video. This is the mother of all vertical mills
                        > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn7tsNG6pyo
                        >
                        >
                        > Mike
                        >
                      • Eric
                        Thanks! I ve gone through similar exercises in the past, but life always seems to interfere just when I m getting ready to upgrade my shop...
                        Message 12 of 15 , Mar 7, 2013
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                          Thanks!

                          I've gone through similar exercises in the past, but life always seems to interfere just when I'm getting ready to upgrade my shop...

                          --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "burgercs" <burgerc@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Just in case others are interested in my comparison, I uploaded my file to the File section as 'Mill Specifications - Overview_01MAR2013.xlsx'.
                          >
                          > Clemens
                          >
                          > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "burgercs" <burgerc@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Interesting discussion. I had been casually looking for a while for a used bench-top mill, but never found anything I liked. I decided that buying new was maybe the better route. I have more selection, and I know what I'll get will be in good condition. The purchasing process is also a lot easier. You call them, hand over a credit card number and wait until the truck shows up.
                          > >
                          > > I started looking at the LMS mill with the solid column, but started to do search for other options as well. I ended up putting a spreadsheet together comparing about 20 models of mini mills and mill/drill models. I have all the usual suspects on there from LMS, HF, Micro-Mark, a few options from Wholesale Tool Company, but Grizzly is dominating my table. The only mini mill I am really considering is the LMS. However, although I don't have any specific projects planned, I am afraid that I would run into size limitations a lot sooner than I'd like and started to focus on mills a size or two up.
                          > >
                          > > After I was done with my comparison, I mentally settled on the Grizzly G0705. That's a good size and real heavy-duty machine for the price (including the stand, an option I like). After setting this topic aside for a few days and then going back to it, I started considering the G0755, quite a bit more expensive, but probably more accurate, a tilting head and more size capacity. Wow, almost 1000 lbs, though. After thinking about that for a while I figure that may be more than I need for most I would ever do and went back to my table again. I currently have the G0704 at the top of my list. It looks like it has a decent size but still compact, tilting head, comes with a stand and is very reasonable priced. Really not that much more expensive than the LMS, but quite a bit more capacity and capability. I am going to think about it for a couple more weeks, but plan to order something soon.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Clemens
                          >
                        • Bill Williams
                          ... Remember; It s always easier to do small work on a big mill than to do big work on a small mill! OTOH there is the Buddhist Koan that says Everything
                          Message 13 of 15 , Mar 7, 2013
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                            Eric wrote:
                            > Thanks!
                            >
                            > I've gone through similar exercises in the past, but life always
                            > seems to interfere just when I'm getting ready to upgrade my shop...

                            Remember; "It's always easier to do small work on a big mill than to do
                            big work on a small mill!" OTOH there is the Buddhist Koan that says
                            "Everything that you own, owns you!" Bill in Boulder
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