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RE: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: New member looking for basic advice

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  • Tony Smith
    The 7x10 lathe Frank mentions is available from a few vendors under various guises. It s often called the 7x12 (there s a Yahoo group for that), this site:
    Message 1 of 14 , Oct 16, 2012
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      The 7x10 lathe Frank mentions is available from a few vendors under various
      guises. It's often called the 7x12 (there's a Yahoo group for that), this
      site: http://www.mini-lathe.com/ is worth a look.

      Regardless of the vendor they're basically the same machine with each vendor
      adding their own tweaks, often only the paint is different.

      That site also have a lot of info on the little mills, the X2 is a good size
      to start with (depending on your needs). Once again, they are
      'more-or-less' the same machine regardless of vendor. That site has
      mini-mill info as well.

      The latest upgrade to these machines is the 'Super' class, in short these
      have upgraded motors (better torque etc) and do away with the annoying
      hi/low gears. You do pay a premium for those.

      Tony



      > Thank you so much for the feedback. I was wondering if immediately the
      lathe
      > would help the screw project and I have a HF in town here I can go look at
      their
      > lathe. I look forward to surfing through this board too. Again thanks
      for the
      > helpful advice right off the bat.
      >
      > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, Frank <usarmyfly@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > I hear that you might want to consider a lathe first. I bought my mill
      to flat top
      > and serrate slides as well as other machining operations on 1911's. I
      couldn't
      > easily do what I wanted on a lathe so I bought a mill. Shortly thereafter
      I found
      > myself with a 7x10 in my garage and now a 9x20.
    • Robert Furmanak
      The one advantage the HF lathe has is that it is a store stock item. That means no shipping charges, and you can use one of their ubiquitous 20% off coupons
      Message 2 of 14 , Oct 16, 2012
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        The one advantage the HF lathe has is that it is a store stock item.  That means no shipping charges, and you can use one of their ubiquitous 20% off coupons on it.  You can also try what worked for me and buy the floor model.  In my case I got an additional 20% off.  On top of that it was on sale.  I walked out with the lathe for an amazing $260.  That was 4 years ago, and they were a little cheaper back then.

        However, note that the 7x10 lathe is measured differently from all the others.  It is actually 4 inches shorter than the 7x12 and 6 inches shorter than the 7x14.   In fairness, it should be called a 7x8 to be consistent with the others.  Two big drawbacks to the 7x10 are that it is barely long enough to bore holes in work pieces using standard length drills, and that the motor is much smaller than the longer lathes.  It is especially anemic when compared to the LMS Hi Torque lathe. Here again, you may find it more cost effective to buy a better machine up front. I converted my 7x10 into a (6 inch longer) 7x14 by buying a kit from LMS.  Since my lathe was so cheap I came out OK on cost.  However, at the current HF price, it would not be a good way to go.

         

        From: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eyegofaster
        Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 8:44 PM
        To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: New member looking for basic advice

         

         

        Thank you so much for the feedback. I was wondering if immediately the lathe would help the screw project and I have a HF in town here I can go look at their lathe. I look forward to surfing through this board too. Again thanks for the helpful advice right off the bat.

        --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, Frank <usarmyfly@...> wrote:
        >
        > I hear that you might want to consider a lathe first. I bought my mill to flat top and serrate slides as well as other machining operations on 1911's. I couldn't easily do what I wanted on a lathe so I bought a mill. Shortly thereafter I found myself with a 7x10 in my garage and now a 9x20.
        >
        > Either way both are very handy in their own rights and I think the advice is valid, examine your needs carefully before purchasing. There are so many things that you can do on both that you may find a need for them outside of your original intent.
        >

      • Ian Newman
        Hi,   Regarding the choice of machine tools - join a local Model Engineering group and get some hands-on experience with people who know what they are
        Message 3 of 14 , Oct 17, 2012
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          Hi,
           
          Regarding the choice of machine tools - join a local Model Engineering group and get some hands-on experience with people who know what they are doing.  Half a day and a few beers shared with an experienced machinist and "playing" on a couple of machines will give you more knowledge than you will gain in a year trawling the discussion forums.  Even better - sign up for a basic machine course at your nearest college, you will never regret being properly trained to use the machines and you will get the oportunity to use a wide range of machines of different types and sizes (and appreciate the capabilities and limitations of each).
           
          If you do the above you will:
           
          1) Make fewer mistakes and destroy/damage fewer parts (and tools).
           
          2) Understand the processes that you are attempting (and therefore perform them more rapidly and effectively)
           
          3) Be much better placed to make your purchasing descisions.
           
          4) Spend less time in hospital :)
           
          I'm a little bias on the issue of being properly trained to use machine tools - I teach engineering apprentices at a college.
           
          All the best,
          Ian.
          --- On Tue, 16/10/12, eyegofaster <asacco@...> wrote:

          From: eyegofaster <asacco@...>
          Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] New member looking for basic advice
          To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Tuesday, 16 October, 2012, 12:03

           
          Hi folks, new here and never did any machining. I'm a pretty technically oriented guy with a hobby interest in gunsmithing, astronomy and product development for my business. All small parts. In other words if it seems it will do what I need I have decided to purchase a mini mill. My immediate projects are a few LC Smith shotguns that need the screws that go through the receiver machined down to fit- the heads are too tall. I scour the marketplace and find these solid guns, then refinish and clean them up and resell them for a profit or keep them. The two I have now have botched screws. I would assume an end mill would take material off the top of the screw to shorten the height enough? I think I'll also need a lathe at some point.

          Can anyone recommend a good book or two for further information? Any advice is appreciated. I already know the basics such as this: it is addicting and the mill is the least expensive part so I expect to build my collection over time.

        • HERBWALKE
          The magic of the internet and MIT may help some folks that do not live near a local Model Engineering group. There are great free video course online from
          Message 4 of 14 , Oct 17, 2012
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            The magic of the internet and MIT may help some folks that do not live near a local Model Engineering group. There are great free video course online from MIT...though they use the real industrial size machines...the principle are the same. Some links are listed below:

            (courses 8, 9, and 10 are very lathe specific) These course videos are approximately 40 to 50 minutes long, but you can watch them when you want at your leisure.

            http://web.mit.edu/2.670/www/Tutorials/Machining/lathe/Description.html

            http://techtv.mit.edu/videos/142-machine-shop-1

            http://techtv.mit.edu/videos/84-machine-shop-5

            http://techtv.mit.edu/videos/144-machine-shop-8

            http://techtv.mit.edu/videos/134-machine-shop-9

            http://techtv.mit.edu/videos/172-machine-shop-10

            Regards,
            Herb


            --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, Ian Newman <ian_new@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi,
            >  
            > Regarding the choice of machine tools - join a local Model Engineering group and get some hands-on experience with people who know what they are doing.  Half a day and a few beers shared with an experienced machinist and "playing" on a couple of machines will give you more knowledge than you will gain in a year trawling the discussion forums.  Even better - sign up for a basic machine course at your nearest college, you will never regret being properly trained to use the machines and you will get the oportunity to use a wide range of machines of different types and sizes (and appreciate the capabilities and limitations of each).
            >  
            > If you do the above you will:
            >  
            > 1) Make fewer mistakes and destroy/damage fewer parts (and tools).
            >  
            > 2) Understand the processes that you are attempting (and therefore perform them more rapidly and effectively)
            >  
            > 3) Be much better placed to make your purchasing descisions.
            >  
            > 4) Spend less time in hospital :)
            >  
            > I'm a little bias on the issue of being properly trained to use machine tools - I teach engineering apprentices at a college.
            >  
            > All the best,
            > Ian.
            > --- On Tue, 16/10/12, eyegofaster <asacco@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > From: eyegofaster <asacco@...>
            > Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] New member looking for basic advice
            > To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Tuesday, 16 October, 2012, 12:03
            >
            >
            >
            >  
            >
            >
            >
            > Hi folks, new here and never did any machining. I'm a pretty technically oriented guy with a hobby interest in gunsmithing, astronomy and product development for my business. All small parts. In other words if it seems it will do what I need I have decided to purchase a mini mill. My immediate projects are a few LC Smith shotguns that need the screws that go through the receiver machined down to fit- the heads are too tall. I scour the marketplace and find these solid guns, then refinish and clean them up and resell them for a profit or keep them. The two I have now have botched screws. I would assume an end mill would take material off the top of the screw to shorten the height enough? I think I'll also need a lathe at some point.
            >
            > Can anyone recommend a good book or two for further information? Any advice is appreciated. I already know the basics such as this: it is addicting and the mill is the least expensive part so I expect to build my collection over time.
            >
            >
            >
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          • grant.fair@sympatico.ca
            The 7x10 has a shorter bed than the 7x12.IMO the 7x12 is better than the 7x10 (I added the 14 bed from LMS to my 7x10 and am very happy with the increased
            Message 5 of 14 , Oct 17, 2012
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              The 7x10 has a shorter bed than the 7x12.IMO the 7x12 is better than the 7x10 (I added the 14" bed from LMS to my 7x10 and am very happy with the increased capacity).

              Grant

              --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Smith" <ajsmith1968@...> wrote:
              >
              > The 7x10 lathe Frank mentions is available from a few vendors under various
              > guises. It's often called the 7x12 (there's a Yahoo group for that), this
              > site: http://www.mini-lathe.com/ is worth a look.
              >
              > Regardless of the vendor they're basically the same machine with each vendor
              > adding their own tweaks, often only the paint is different.
            • BrianK
              For what its worth, and depending very much on how it will be used, I have the HF 8x12 and can t say enough about its capabilities.  It is not that much
              Message 6 of 14 , Oct 17, 2012
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                For what its worth, and depending very much on how it will be used, I have the HF 8x12 and can't say enough about its capabilities.  It is not that much more expensive, but in all respects, it is miles apart from its smaller cousins.  Until I purchased a minimill, I ran an old Atlas Milling adapter on the crossslide using a .500 end mill and had no problems with vibrations or chatter if I was sensible.  Same applies to cutoff operations which have often reached 4"+.  It is well worth considering for the person who desires out of the box quality and ridgity.
                 
                Brian

                From: "grant.fair@..." <grant.fair@...>
                To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 5:59 PM
                Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: New member looking for basic advice
                 
                The 7x10 has a shorter bed than the 7x12.IMO the 7x12 is better than the 7x10 (I added the 14" bed from LMS to my 7x10 and am very happy with the increased capacity).

                Grant

                --- In mailto:GrizHFMinimill%40yahoogroups.com, "Tony Smith" <ajsmith1968@...> wrote:
                >
                > The 7x10 lathe Frank mentions is available from a few vendors under various
                > guises. It's often called the 7x12 (there's a Yahoo group for that), this
                > site: http://www.mini-lathe.com/ is worth a look.
                >
                > Regardless of the vendor they're basically the same machine with each vendor
                > adding their own tweaks, often only the paint is different.

              • Tony Smith
                That was poorly worded, apart from bed length (anywhere from 8 to 16 ) the rest of the bits are identical. There are a few exceptions, the 7x10 has a
                Message 7 of 14 , Oct 17, 2012
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                  That was poorly worded, apart from bed length (anywhere from 8" to 16") the
                  rest of the bits are identical. There are a few exceptions, the 7x10 has a
                  different motor (& mounts) to the 7x12 and so on, but tailstocks, compounds
                  etc can be exchanged, spindles are MT3, tailstocks MT2 etc.

                  There's basically three models for these mini lathes & mills. You have
                  Sieg, the Real Bull (similar but slightly better to the Sieg) and the
                  'Super' Sieg models, what LMS call the Hi-Torque.

                  Tony


                  > The 7x10 has a shorter bed than the 7x12.IMO the 7x12 is better than the
                  7x10
                  > (I added the 14" bed from LMS to my 7x10 and am very happy with the
                  > increased capacity).
                  >
                  > Grant
                  >
                  > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Smith" <ajsmith1968@...>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > The 7x10 lathe Frank mentions is available from a few vendors under
                  > > various guises. It's often called the 7x12 (there's a Yahoo group for
                  > > that), this
                  > > site: http://www.mini-lathe.com/ is worth a look.
                  > >
                  > > Regardless of the vendor they're basically the same machine with each
                  > > vendor adding their own tweaks, often only the paint is different.
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