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x-y table rotary table for minimill

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  • fly_sailor
    This is really off topic for this forum but I m posting it here as well as on several minimill forums. In the past, before CNC, they used to make a rotary
    Message 1 of 11 , May 30, 2012
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      This is really off topic for this forum but I'm posting it here as well as on several minimill forums.

      In the past, before CNC, they used to make a rotary table with an x-y table on top. While I've found a few of these out on the internet, they generally are capable of mounting a Mack truck and are suited for a reinforced floor that is measured in feet or meters for thickness.

      However, the idea is very simple. Put an X-Y table on top of a rotary table and anything you could accomplish with two dimensional CNC is possible, albeit with some extra work and within the limits of the travel of the upper table.

      So I own a very nice accurate four inch rotary table that came from Little Machine Shop. A while back I fabricated a mounting plate that had a registration pin which centered the plate on the table and had a sixty degree indent that let me register the plate with respect to the spindle. It also had a second indent so I could align it relative to the X axis and thus zero degrees rotation. Consequently I was able to fabricate a few rather complicated pieces of 6061 for a friend's experimental airplane.

      I am planning to convert both my mill and lathe to CNC but in the meantime I have several projects I want to complete first while I work out the details and save up the money. I am one of those people who has managed to get out of debt. And I will never go back. When the money is there, I'll install CNC on the machines.

      So my question is; is there an X-Y table out there for reasonable bucks, that is not too tall that I can both register and mount on my rotary table?

      Thank you in advance for your trouble.

      fly_sailor
    • Jim Good
      I ve seen cheap x-y tables on eBay. I can t vouch for their quality. Jim
      Message 2 of 11 , May 30, 2012
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        I've seen cheap x-y tables on eBay. I can't vouch for their quality.

        Jim

        On May 30, 2012, at 6:21 PM, fly_sailor wrote:

        > This is really off topic for this forum but I'm posting it here as well as on several minimill forums.
        >
        > In the past, before CNC, they used to make a rotary table with an x-y table on top. While I've found a few of these out on the internet, they generally are capable of mounting a Mack truck and are suited for a reinforced floor that is measured in feet or meters for thickness.
        >
        > However, the idea is very simple. Put an X-Y table on top of a rotary table and anything you could accomplish with two dimensional CNC is possible, albeit with some extra work and within the limits of the travel of the upper table.
        >
        > So I own a very nice accurate four inch rotary table that came from Little Machine Shop. A while back I fabricated a mounting plate that had a registration pin which centered the plate on the table and had a sixty degree indent that let me register the plate with respect to the spindle. It also had a second indent so I could align it relative to the X axis and thus zero degrees rotation. Consequently I was able to fabricate a few rather complicated pieces of 6061 for a friend's experimental airplane.
        >
        > I am planning to convert both my mill and lathe to CNC but in the meantime I have several projects I want to complete first while I work out the details and save up the money. I am one of those people who has managed to get out of debt. And I will never go back. When the money is there, I'll install CNC on the machines.
        >
        > So my question is; is there an X-Y table out there for reasonable bucks, that is not too tall that I can both register and mount on my rotary table?
        >
        > Thank you in advance for your trouble.
        >
        > fly_sailor
        >
        >
      • bbass408
        HF has a few of them too.
        Message 3 of 11 , May 30, 2012
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          HF has a few of them too.

          --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, Jim Good <jagness@...> wrote:
          >
          > I've seen cheap x-y tables on eBay. I can't vouch for their quality.
          >
          > Jim
          >
          > On May 30, 2012, at 6:21 PM, fly_sailor wrote:
          >
          > > This is really off topic for this forum but I'm posting it here as well as on several minimill forums.
          > >
          > > In the past, before CNC, they used to make a rotary table with an x-y table on top. While I've found a few of these out on the internet, they generally are capable of mounting a Mack truck and are suited for a reinforced floor that is measured in feet or meters for thickness.
          > >
          > > However, the idea is very simple. Put an X-Y table on top of a rotary table and anything you could accomplish with two dimensional CNC is possible, albeit with some extra work and within the limits of the travel of the upper table.
          > >
          > > So I own a very nice accurate four inch rotary table that came from Little Machine Shop. A while back I fabricated a mounting plate that had a registration pin which centered the plate on the table and had a sixty degree indent that let me register the plate with respect to the spindle. It also had a second indent so I could align it relative to the X axis and thus zero degrees rotation. Consequently I was able to fabricate a few rather complicated pieces of 6061 for a friend's experimental airplane.
          > >
          > > I am planning to convert both my mill and lathe to CNC but in the meantime I have several projects I want to complete first while I work out the details and save up the money. I am one of those people who has managed to get out of debt. And I will never go back. When the money is there, I'll install CNC on the machines.
          > >
          > > So my question is; is there an X-Y table out there for reasonable bucks, that is not too tall that I can both register and mount on my rotary table?
          > >
          > > Thank you in advance for your trouble.
          > >
          > > fly_sailor
          > >
          > >
          >
        • dave_mucha
          You want to mount it on your 4 rotary table ? I think you will find it very hard to find such a tool. most are huge, over 5 tall and added to your rotary,
          Message 4 of 11 , May 31, 2012
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            You want to mount it on your 4" rotary table ?

            I think you will find it very hard to find such a tool. most are huge, over 5" tall and added to your rotary, you loose too much of your work envelope.

            Dave

            --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "fly_sailor" <cdfly@...> wrote:
            >
            > This is really off topic for this forum but I'm posting it here as well as on several minimill forums.
            >
            > In the past, before CNC, they used to make a rotary table with an x-y table on top. While I've found a few of these out on the internet, they generally are capable of mounting a Mack truck and are suited for a reinforced floor that is measured in feet or meters for thickness.
            >
            > However, the idea is very simple. Put an X-Y table on top of a rotary table and anything you could accomplish with two dimensional CNC is possible, albeit with some extra work and within the limits of the travel of the upper table.
            >
            > So I own a very nice accurate four inch rotary table that came from Little Machine Shop. A while back I fabricated a mounting plate that had a registration pin which centered the plate on the table and had a sixty degree indent that let me register the plate with respect to the spindle. It also had a second indent so I could align it relative to the X axis and thus zero degrees rotation. Consequently I was able to fabricate a few rather complicated pieces of 6061 for a friend's experimental airplane.
            >
            > I am planning to convert both my mill and lathe to CNC but in the meantime I have several projects I want to complete first while I work out the details and save up the money. I am one of those people who has managed to get out of debt. And I will never go back. When the money is there, I'll install CNC on the machines.
            >
            > So my question is; is there an X-Y table out there for reasonable bucks, that is not too tall that I can both register and mount on my rotary table?
            >
            > Thank you in advance for your trouble.
            >
            > fly_sailor
            >
          • fly_sailor
            I ve seen the HF tables and they are far too large for what I have in mind. The X-Y table I m thinking about would not be much larger than the rotary table
            Message 5 of 11 , May 31, 2012
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              I've seen the HF tables and they are far too large for what I have in mind. The X-Y table I'm thinking about would not be much larger than the rotary table itself with perhaps two inches or so of travel on each axis. The primary end mills I will use for this project are 1/32 to 1/8 inch diameters. I have looked around on the internet and found a few companies that make small slides that can be assembled into an X-Y table including one that is just shy of one inch thick for both axes, but they want more than the CNC conversion will cost plus the cost of the mill as well.

              There are some very fine machinists on this forum with a huge amount of experience collectively. So I just tossed this out to see if I got lucky.

              If I don't find what I'm looking for, I will either postpone the project until I can afford CNC or perhaps design and build a miniature table proving yet again that the jig takes more work than the part.

              Charlie

              --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "dave_mucha" <dave_mucha@...> wrote:
              >
              > You want to mount it on your 4" rotary table ?
              >
              > I think you will find it very hard to find such a tool. most are huge, over 5" tall and added to your rotary, you loose too much of your work envelope.
              >
              > Dave
              >
              > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "fly_sailor" <cdfly@> wrote:
              > >
              > > This is really off topic for this forum but I'm posting it here as well as on several minimill forums.
              > >
              > > In the past, before CNC, they used to make a rotary table with an x-y table on top. While I've found a few of these out on the internet, they generally are capable of mounting a Mack truck and are suited for a reinforced floor that is measured in feet or meters for thickness.
              > >
              > > However, the idea is very simple. Put an X-Y table on top of a rotary table and anything you could accomplish with two dimensional CNC is possible, albeit with some extra work and within the limits of the travel of the upper table.
              > >
              > > So I own a very nice accurate four inch rotary table that came from Little Machine Shop. A while back I fabricated a mounting plate that had a registration pin which centered the plate on the table and had a sixty degree indent that let me register the plate with respect to the spindle. It also had a second indent so I could align it relative to the X axis and thus zero degrees rotation. Consequently I was able to fabricate a few rather complicated pieces of 6061 for a friend's experimental airplane.
              > >
              > > I am planning to convert both my mill and lathe to CNC but in the meantime I have several projects I want to complete first while I work out the details and save up the money. I am one of those people who has managed to get out of debt. And I will never go back. When the money is there, I'll install CNC on the machines.
              > >
              > > So my question is; is there an X-Y table out there for reasonable bucks, that is not too tall that I can both register and mount on my rotary table?
              > >
              > > Thank you in advance for your trouble.
              > >
              > > fly_sailor
              > >
              >
            • fly_sailor
              I ve seen the HF tables and they are far too large for what I have in mind. The X-Y table I m thinking about would not be much larger than the rotary table
              Message 6 of 11 , May 31, 2012
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                I've seen the HF tables and they are far too large for what I have in mind. The X-Y table I'm thinking about would not be much larger than the rotary table itself with perhaps two inches or so of travel on each axis. The primary end mills I will use for this project are 1/32 to 1/8 inch diameters. I have looked around on the internet and found a few companies that make small slides that can be assembled into an X-Y table including one that is just shy of one inch thick for both axes, but they want more than the CNC conversion will cost plus the cost of the mill as well.

                There are some very fine machinists on this forum with a huge amount of experience collectively. So I just tossed this out to see if I got lucky.

                If I don't find what I'm looking for, I will either postpone the project until I can afford CNC or perhaps design and build a miniature table proving yet again that the jig takes more work than the part.

                Charlie

                --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "dave_mucha" <dave_mucha@...> wrote:
                >
                > You want to mount it on your 4" rotary table ?
                >
                > I think you will find it very hard to find such a tool. most are huge, over 5" tall and added to your rotary, you loose too much of your work envelope.
                >
                > Dave
                >
                > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "fly_sailor" <cdfly@> wrote:
                > >
                > > This is really off topic for this forum but I'm posting it here as well as on several minimill forums.
                > >
                > > In the past, before CNC, they used to make a rotary table with an x-y table on top. While I've found a few of these out on the internet, they generally are capable of mounting a Mack truck and are suited for a reinforced floor that is measured in feet or meters for thickness.
                > >
                > > However, the idea is very simple. Put an X-Y table on top of a rotary table and anything you could accomplish with two dimensional CNC is possible, albeit with some extra work and within the limits of the travel of the upper table.
                > >
                > > So I own a very nice accurate four inch rotary table that came from Little Machine Shop. A while back I fabricated a mounting plate that had a registration pin which centered the plate on the table and had a sixty degree indent that let me register the plate with respect to the spindle. It also had a second indent so I could align it relative to the X axis and thus zero degrees rotation. Consequently I was able to fabricate a few rather complicated pieces of 6061 for a friend's experimental airplane.
                > >
                > > I am planning to convert both my mill and lathe to CNC but in the meantime I have several projects I want to complete first while I work out the details and save up the money. I am one of those people who has managed to get out of debt. And I will never go back. When the money is there, I'll install CNC on the machines.
                > >
                > > So my question is; is there an X-Y table out there for reasonable bucks, that is not too tall that I can both register and mount on my rotary table?
                > >
                > > Thank you in advance for your trouble.
                > >
                > > fly_sailor
                > >
                >
              • Bill in Boulder
                ... Bill in Boulder Engineering as an Art Form! ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com
                Message 7 of 11 , May 31, 2012
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                  >> However, the idea is very simple. Put an X-Y table on top of a rotary table and anything you could accomplish with two dimensional CNC is possible, albeit with some extra work and within the limits of the travel of the upper table.



                  Bill in Boulder "Engineering as an Art Form!"

                  ________________________________________
                  PeoplePC Online
                  A better way to Internet
                  http://www.peoplepc.com
                • Bill Williams
                  ... SNIP! ... To answer your question in two parts: yes there was a 6 Palmgren as you describe, I bought one about 45 years ago! While not perfect it served
                  Message 8 of 11 , May 31, 2012
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                    fly_sailor wrote:
                    > This is really off topic for this forum but I'm posting it here as
                    > well as on several minimill forums.
                    >
                    > In the past, before CNC, they used to make a rotary table with an x-y
                    > table on top. While I've found a few of these out on the internet,
                    > they generally are capable of mounting a Mack truck and are suited
                    > for a reinforced floor that is measured in feet or meters for
                    > thickness.

                    SNIP!

                    > So my question is; is there an X-Y table out there for reasonable
                    > bucks, that is not too tall that I can both register and mount on my
                    > rotary table?
                    >
                    > Thank you in advance for your trouble.
                    >
                    > fly_sailor

                    To answer your question in two parts: yes there was a 6" Palmgren as
                    you describe, I bought one about 45 years ago! While
                    not perfect it served me well until I sprang for a mill. I last
                    saw it fairly recently for $200. Google Palmgren Rotary Table and
                    see what you come up with!

                    Bill in Boulder
                  • dave_mucha
                    May I offer a suggestion ? Tell us what you want to do. it may be that we can offer solutions. I cannot see a fundamental difference between the X/Y table on
                    Message 9 of 11 , May 31, 2012
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                      May I offer a suggestion ?

                      Tell us what you want to do. it may be that we can offer solutions.

                      I cannot see a fundamental difference between the X/Y table on top of the rotary vs: the rotary on the X/Y

                      Dave



                      >
                      > If I don't find what I'm looking for, I will either postpone the project until I can afford CNC or perhaps design and build a miniature table proving yet again that the jig takes more work than the part.
                      >
                      > Charlie
                    • fly_sailor
                      Thank all of you for your replies. I believe I have found what I am looking for. It is a Proxxon Micro Compound Table KT 70. The table is 200 mm (7.87 ) x 70
                      Message 10 of 11 , May 31, 2012
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                        Thank all of you for your replies.

                        I believe I have found what I am looking for. It is a Proxxon Micro Compound Table KT 70. The table is 200 mm (7.87") x 70 mm (2.75") with three clamping slots and the X travel is 134 mm (5.28") and Y 46 mm (1.81"). The height is only 43 mm (1.69").

                        The table is from their micro mill.

                        My rotary table is 2.76" tall. So the stack height comes out to 4.66". The Z travel on my Micro Mark minimill is 7.0" leaving 2.34" for the mill holder, mill and the workpiece which will work for what I am trying to machine. A while back I bought a #3 MT taper fitted with a Sherline mill holder which is much shorter than the set of holders I bought from HF when I first set the mill up.

                        Proxxon also makes a KT150 compound table that is 200 mm x 200 mm and provides 150 mm of travel in both axes, but it is 75 mm tall which doesn't leave enough space.

                        The only downside is one turn of the handles moves the table 1 mm or .03937". I may change out the lead screws, but then again so what.

                        The definite up side is Amazon has them for $97.

                        Thanks for your help.

                        Charlie


                        --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, Bill Williams <BWMSBLDR@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > fly_sailor wrote:
                        > > This is really off topic for this forum but I'm posting it here as
                        > > well as on several minimill forums.
                        > >
                        > > In the past, before CNC, they used to make a rotary table with an x-y
                        > > table on top. While I've found a few of these out on the internet,
                        > > they generally are capable of mounting a Mack truck and are suited
                        > > for a reinforced floor that is measured in feet or meters for
                        > > thickness.
                        >
                        > SNIP!
                        >
                        > > So my question is; is there an X-Y table out there for reasonable
                        > > bucks, that is not too tall that I can both register and mount on my
                        > > rotary table?
                        > >
                        > > Thank you in advance for your trouble.
                        > >
                        > > fly_sailor
                        >
                        > To answer your question in two parts: yes there was a 6" Palmgren as
                        > you describe, I bought one about 45 years ago! While
                        > not perfect it served me well until I sprang for a mill. I last
                        > saw it fairly recently for $200. Google Palmgren Rotary Table and
                        > see what you come up with!
                        >
                        > Bill in Boulder
                        >
                      • fly_sailor
                        OK, I m replying to this after I posted the reply about the Proxxon table. The issue is this. I m building a G gauge live steam locomotive. I am machining
                        Message 11 of 11 , May 31, 2012
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                          OK, I'm replying to this after I posted the reply about the Proxxon table. The issue is this. I'm building a G gauge live steam locomotive. I am machining the detail on the side frames which have some cast curved flanges a bit like an I-beam that was run through a roller. I could simply locate the centers of these four curves and mill the radii inside and out leaving the flange. But that requires four separate set ups per side rail which I was simply trying to avoid.

                          So one afternoon, I was mulling this over and realized that an X-Y table on the rotary table would simply let me locate things once and then simply move the piece until the center of one of these curves aligned with the rotary table center. Then I move the lower table to establish the radius and mill away by rotating the table through ninety degrees for two flanges and sixty degrees for the other two.

                          However, writing this has made me think. All I need to do is make a plate that has a center pin to pick up the center of the table along with a center point so I can locate the center when the plate is mounted on the table. If I machine the bearing holes first, then I can simply locate the piece using dowel pins on the plate for each of the four centers and the X-Y table is no longer needed.

                          Thank you very much for making me think this through.

                          Charlie


                          --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "dave_mucha" <dave_mucha@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > May I offer a suggestion ?
                          >
                          > Tell us what you want to do. it may be that we can offer solutions.
                          >
                          > I cannot see a fundamental difference between the X/Y table on top of the rotary vs: the rotary on the X/Y
                          >
                          > Dave
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > >
                          > > If I don't find what I'm looking for, I will either postpone the project until I can afford CNC or perhaps design and build a miniature table proving yet again that the jig takes more work than the part.
                          > >
                          > > Charlie
                          >
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