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Spindle to column alignment

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  • villian1962
    I have the column and head off of the machine and laying supported on the workbench. I purposely placed a random brass shim under the bottom two head mounting
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 27, 2012
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      I have the column and head off of the machine and laying supported on the workbench. I purposely placed a random brass shim under the bottom two head mounting bolts to get large readings for my own education. Using the Rollie's Dad Method (RDM) I get the following:

      Head lowered and indicating just out of the collet, tightened gibs

      -.002 and +.001 (near end)

      Raise the head about 7", tighten gibs and I get

      +.053 and +.083 (far end)

      Clearly the bar is bent but no big deal using the RDM. I am sure it is drooping a very tiny bit but I need to get the basics before I fine tune.

      near end average indicated center is (-.002 + .001)/2= -.0005
      far end average indicated center is (.083 + .053)/2 = .068

      This would mean the movement from near to far end is .0675 with my random shim inserted for eduational purposes.

      Is this the correct way to use the RDM? This would make me believe I need to shim at the top two bolts of the head mount. (Keeping in mind that I already placed a shim at the bottom two bolts just to skew the numbers largely) In actuality, I believe removing my random shim will get everything pretty close on the Y axis. Once the Y is shimmed right, the X axis is easier.

      I am on the right track with this use of the RDM?

      While I have it all apart I am welding a simple brace for the back of the column. After reading here, I checked to see how much it really flexs. I was able to gently put my hand on it and flex .007 to the front and back without any real pressure. This is with the pivot nut securely tightened. This really speaks to some of the issues I have been having. I am really looking forward to getting everything trammed and stable!!!
    • bbass408
      Can you give some more information on what you re doing to brace the column? Pics and info on the type of steel, dimentions, etc. would be cool. I m thinking
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 27, 2012
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        Can you give some more information on what you're doing to brace the column? Pics and info on the type of steel, dimentions, etc. would be cool.
        I'm thinking of trying that.

        --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "villian1962" <the_hogman@...> wrote:
        >
        > I have the column and head off of the machine and laying supported on the workbench. I purposely placed a random brass shim under the bottom two head mounting bolts to get large readings for my own education. Using the Rollie's Dad Method (RDM) I get the following:
        >
        > Head lowered and indicating just out of the collet, tightened gibs
        >
        > -.002 and +.001 (near end)
        >
        > Raise the head about 7", tighten gibs and I get
        >
        > +.053 and +.083 (far end)
        >
        > Clearly the bar is bent but no big deal using the RDM. I am sure it is drooping a very tiny bit but I need to get the basics before I fine tune.
        >
        > near end average indicated center is (-.002 + .001)/2= -.0005
        > far end average indicated center is (.083 + .053)/2 = .068
        >
        > This would mean the movement from near to far end is .0675 with my random shim inserted for eduational purposes.
        >
        > Is this the correct way to use the RDM? This would make me believe I need to shim at the top two bolts of the head mount. (Keeping in mind that I already placed a shim at the bottom two bolts just to skew the numbers largely) In actuality, I believe removing my random shim will get everything pretty close on the Y axis. Once the Y is shimmed right, the X axis is easier.
        >
        > I am on the right track with this use of the RDM?
        >
        > While I have it all apart I am welding a simple brace for the back of the column. After reading here, I checked to see how much it really flexs. I was able to gently put my hand on it and flex .007 to the front and back without any real pressure. This is with the pivot nut securely tightened. This really speaks to some of the issues I have been having. I am really looking forward to getting everything trammed and stable!!!
        >
      • villian1962
        I can t take credit for the brace. Check Hoss s page at this link. The idea is towards the bottom http://www.hossmachine.info/Shop_Info.html
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 27, 2012
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          I can't take credit for the brace. Check Hoss's page at this link. The idea is towards the bottom

          http://www.hossmachine.info/Shop_Info.html





          --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "bbass408" <bbass408@...> wrote:
          >
          > Can you give some more information on what you're doing to brace the column? Pics and info on the type of steel, dimentions, etc. would be cool.
          > I'm thinking of trying that.
          >
          > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "villian1962" <the_hogman@> wrote:
          > >
          > > I have the column and head off of the machine and laying supported on the workbench. I purposely placed a random brass shim under the bottom two head mounting bolts to get large readings for my own education. Using the Rollie's Dad Method (RDM) I get the following:
          > >
          > > Head lowered and indicating just out of the collet, tightened gibs
          > >
          > > -.002 and +.001 (near end)
          > >
          > > Raise the head about 7", tighten gibs and I get
          > >
          > > +.053 and +.083 (far end)
          > >
          > > Clearly the bar is bent but no big deal using the RDM. I am sure it is drooping a very tiny bit but I need to get the basics before I fine tune.
          > >
          > > near end average indicated center is (-.002 + .001)/2= -.0005
          > > far end average indicated center is (.083 + .053)/2 = .068
          > >
          > > This would mean the movement from near to far end is .0675 with my random shim inserted for eduational purposes.
          > >
          > > Is this the correct way to use the RDM? This would make me believe I need to shim at the top two bolts of the head mount. (Keeping in mind that I already placed a shim at the bottom two bolts just to skew the numbers largely) In actuality, I believe removing my random shim will get everything pretty close on the Y axis. Once the Y is shimmed right, the X axis is easier.
          > >
          > > I am on the right track with this use of the RDM?
          > >
          > > While I have it all apart I am welding a simple brace for the back of the column. After reading here, I checked to see how much it really flexs. I was able to gently put my hand on it and flex .007 to the front and back without any real pressure. This is with the pivot nut securely tightened. This really speaks to some of the issues I have been having. I am really looking forward to getting everything trammed and stable!!!
          > >
          >
        • bbass408
          I had seen this one before seeing hossmachine s links: http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=6075.0 Even after looking through all the ones
          Message 4 of 9 , Feb 27, 2012
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            I had seen this one before seeing hossmachine's links:
            http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=6075.0
            Even after looking through all the ones on hossmachine after, I still liked it. I'm biased since I can't weld so it rules out lots of the other ideas on that page. The only one that looked close was this one:
            http://www.hossmachine.info/images/dbirds%20column%20support.jpg
            but that didn't look very robust to me and the one on the link up top has really good features for adjustment without sacrificing rigidity.


            --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "villian1962" <the_hogman@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > I can't take credit for the brace. Check Hoss's page at this link. The idea is towards the bottom
            >
            > http://www.hossmachine.info/Shop_Info.html
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "bbass408" <bbass408@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Can you give some more information on what you're doing to brace the column? Pics and info on the type of steel, dimentions, etc. would be cool.
            > > I'm thinking of trying that.
            > >
            > > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "villian1962" <the_hogman@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > I have the column and head off of the machine and laying supported on the workbench. I purposely placed a random brass shim under the bottom two head mounting bolts to get large readings for my own education. Using the Rollie's Dad Method (RDM) I get the following:
            > > >
            > > > Head lowered and indicating just out of the collet, tightened gibs
            > > >
            > > > -.002 and +.001 (near end)
            > > >
            > > > Raise the head about 7", tighten gibs and I get
            > > >
            > > > +.053 and +.083 (far end)
            > > >
            > > > Clearly the bar is bent but no big deal using the RDM. I am sure it is drooping a very tiny bit but I need to get the basics before I fine tune.
            > > >
            > > > near end average indicated center is (-.002 + .001)/2= -.0005
            > > > far end average indicated center is (.083 + .053)/2 = .068
            > > >
            > > > This would mean the movement from near to far end is .0675 with my random shim inserted for eduational purposes.
            > > >
            > > > Is this the correct way to use the RDM? This would make me believe I need to shim at the top two bolts of the head mount. (Keeping in mind that I already placed a shim at the bottom two bolts just to skew the numbers largely) In actuality, I believe removing my random shim will get everything pretty close on the Y axis. Once the Y is shimmed right, the X axis is easier.
            > > >
            > > > I am on the right track with this use of the RDM?
            > > >
            > > > While I have it all apart I am welding a simple brace for the back of the column. After reading here, I checked to see how much it really flexs. I was able to gently put my hand on it and flex .007 to the front and back without any real pressure. This is with the pivot nut securely tightened. This really speaks to some of the issues I have been having. I am really looking forward to getting everything trammed and stable!!!
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • Jim Good
            I know a lot of you have already done this mod, but I just installed Little Machine Shop s belt drive yesterday. It s an easy install, and I really like it so
            Message 5 of 9 , Feb 28, 2012
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              I know a lot of you have already done this mod, but I just installed Little Machine Shop's belt drive yesterday. It's an easy install, and I really like it so far. It eliminates the gears most likely to break, is significantly quieter, and gives you a lot more speed range. Given the work I generally do, I doubt I'll ever need to change the belt to the higher speed range.

              So if anybody's still on the fence about this upgrade, I say go for it.

              Jim
            • imbrewster2
              My mill has the forward tilt of the column. It seems to be common on these mills. Could that be from the weight of the spindle and motor? If so, for those
              Message 6 of 9 , Feb 28, 2012
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                My mill has the forward tilt of the column. It seems to be common on these mills. Could that be from the weight of the spindle and motor? If so, for those of you that have used a weight and pully system to assist the upward movement of the spindle/motor assembly, did the forward tilt go away?

                Brewster

                --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "bbass408" <bbass408@...> wrote:
                >
                > I had seen this one before seeing hossmachine's links:
                > http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=6075.0
                > Even after looking through all the ones on hossmachine after, I still liked it. I'm biased since I can't weld so it rules out lots of the other ideas on that page. The only one that looked close was this one:
                > http://www.hossmachine.info/images/dbirds%20column%20support.jpg
                > but that didn't look very robust to me and the one on the link up top has really good features for adjustment without sacrificing rigidity.
                >
                >
                > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "villian1962" <the_hogman@> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > I can't take credit for the brace. Check Hoss's page at this link. The idea is towards the bottom
                > >
                > > http://www.hossmachine.info/Shop_Info.html
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "bbass408" <bbass408@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Can you give some more information on what you're doing to brace the column? Pics and info on the type of steel, dimentions, etc. would be cool.
                > > > I'm thinking of trying that.
                > > >
                > > > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "villian1962" <the_hogman@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > I have the column and head off of the machine and laying supported on the workbench. I purposely placed a random brass shim under the bottom two head mounting bolts to get large readings for my own education. Using the Rollie's Dad Method (RDM) I get the following:
                > > > >
                > > > > Head lowered and indicating just out of the collet, tightened gibs
                > > > >
                > > > > -.002 and +.001 (near end)
                > > > >
                > > > > Raise the head about 7", tighten gibs and I get
                > > > >
                > > > > +.053 and +.083 (far end)
                > > > >
                > > > > Clearly the bar is bent but no big deal using the RDM. I am sure it is drooping a very tiny bit but I need to get the basics before I fine tune.
                > > > >
                > > > > near end average indicated center is (-.002 + .001)/2= -.0005
                > > > > far end average indicated center is (.083 + .053)/2 = .068
                > > > >
                > > > > This would mean the movement from near to far end is .0675 with my random shim inserted for eduational purposes.
                > > > >
                > > > > Is this the correct way to use the RDM? This would make me believe I need to shim at the top two bolts of the head mount. (Keeping in mind that I already placed a shim at the bottom two bolts just to skew the numbers largely) In actuality, I believe removing my random shim will get everything pretty close on the Y axis. Once the Y is shimmed right, the X axis is easier.
                > > > >
                > > > > I am on the right track with this use of the RDM?
                > > > >
                > > > > While I have it all apart I am welding a simple brace for the back of the column. After reading here, I checked to see how much it really flexs. I was able to gently put my hand on it and flex .007 to the front and back without any real pressure. This is with the pivot nut securely tightened. This really speaks to some of the issues I have been having. I am really looking forward to getting everything trammed and stable!!!
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • pc
                That was the first conversion I did to my mill. Much better cutting action and can use a small fly cutter. Cheers, Andrew in Melbourne
                Message 7 of 9 , Feb 28, 2012
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                  That was the first conversion I did to my mill. Much better cutting
                  action and can use a small fly cutter.

                  Cheers,

                  Andrew in Melbourne

                  On Tue, 2012-02-28 at 09:01 -0600, Jim Good wrote:
                  >
                  > I know a lot of you have already done this mod, but I just installed
                  > Little Machine Shop's belt drive yesterday. It's an easy install, and
                  > I really like it so far. It eliminates the gears most likely to break,
                  > is significantly quieter, and gives you a lot more speed range. Given
                  > the work I generally do, I doubt I'll ever need to change the belt to
                  > the higher speed range.
                  >
                  > So if anybody's still on the fence about this upgrade, I say go for
                  > it.
                  >
                  > Jim
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • johann_ohnesorg
                  My mill has the forward tilt of the column. It seems to be common on these mills. Could that be from the weight of the spindle and motor? If so, for those
                  Message 8 of 9 , Feb 29, 2012
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                    My mill has the forward tilt of the column. It seems to be common on these mills. Could that be from the weight of the spindle and motor? If so, for those of you that have used a weight and pully system to assist the upward movement of the spindle/motor assembly, did the forward tilt go away?
                    >
                    > Brewster
                    ----------------------------------------------------------------

                    Usually, the column leans forward due to misalignment of the angled cast part that attaches the column to the base. Open the three screws that hold this casting, take it off, clean the seating surfaces of the screws and get rid of any color sprayed on the upper side that would interfere with the match of the screws to the cast part. Now attach the column again and clean the castings mating surfaces duly beforehand. See where the column leans and put in shims, use printer paper (0,004") or normal newspaper paper (0,002") or aluminum foil (0,001") and keep notice how much the column shifts when you add a shim. After you have a final measurement, get some feeler gage strips and shim it with that stuff, this won´t get thinner due to pressure. This is the option for those less inclined towards metalworking. People with a second full grown mill will tend to remill the mating surfaces and then scrape them to fit for precision mating with a lot of contact area...

                    Cheers,
                    Johann
                  • paul_in_pittsfield
                    And, while you re at it, see Improve the Steele Belt Drive.pdf in the Paul in Pittsfield s Mill Mods folder in the group s Files section for an easy mod
                    Message 9 of 9 , Feb 29, 2012
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                      And, while you're at it, see "Improve the Steele Belt Drive.pdf" in the "Paul in Pittsfield's Mill Mods" folder in the group's "Files" section for an easy mod with big payback.

                      Paul in Pittsfield

                      --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, Jim Good <jagness@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I know a lot of you have already done this mod, but I just installed Little Machine Shop's belt drive yesterday. It's an easy install, and I really like it so far. It eliminates the gears most likely to break, is significantly quieter, and gives you a lot more speed range. Given the work I generally do, I doubt I'll ever need to change the belt to the higher speed range.
                      >
                      > So if anybody's still on the fence about this upgrade, I say go for it.
                      >
                      > Jim
                      >
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