Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Mill controller woes

Expand Messages
  • Nelson Timken
    Btw Chuck, how old is your machine that these components needed to be replaced? Nelson T A member of the team at www.Hobby-machinist.com
    Message 1 of 24 , Sep 4, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      Btw Chuck, how old is your machine that these components needed to be replaced?


      Nelson T
      A member of the team at
      www.Hobby-machinist.com
    • gerry waclawiak
      Hi Chuck, typical symptoms of a speed control pot/switch on its way out, the change of the feedback is causing the jumps in speed all over. I had exactly this
      Message 2 of 24 , Sep 4, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Chuck,

        typical symptoms of a speed control pot/switch on its way out, the change of the feedback is causing the jumps in speed all over.

        I had exactly this with my lathe (same design as mill) and it started gradually intermittently with slight jumps becoming more frequent and worse as time went on.

        A quick clean of the pot with switch cleaner spray may eliminate it for a short time but is only a temporary solution so replace the combined pot/switch as soon as you can.

        The part is cheap and widely available and a fairly simple soldering job to replace and should cure your problem as it did mine.

        Gerry
        Leeds UK


        To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
        From: chunk07@...
        Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 14:35:57 +0000
        Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: Mill controller woes

         


        --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "chucketn" <chunk07@...> wrote:
        >
        > My X2 mill has started playing up again. First it started acting like the motor was cutting out during a cut. I checked all connections again. I even replaced the brushes. Now, under load or not the speed randomly jumps up to roughly twice the set speed. I can't afford to replace the controller now. Help! Is this the symptom of a fet going bad? I do believe I have some spares.
        >
        > Chuck in E. TN
        >
        More symptoms. Now the speed control pot/switch is intermittent. I can turn it off and the motor continues to run. Sometimes turning it of and on by the speed pot/switch has no effect and it runs at full speed.
        Time to re-read the troubleshooting files again...

        Chuck in E. TN


      • gerry waclawiak
        Hi Chuck, I know what you mean about loyalty, I m quite prepared to pay a little extra for good service but not when the difference is huge. Here in the UK
        Message 3 of 24 , Sep 5, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Chuck,

          I know what you mean about loyalty, I'm quite prepared to pay a little extra for good service but not when the difference is huge.
          Here in the UK diesel is the equivalent of $8.90 US Gallon and it is not uncommon to find diffences of $0.33 gallon between local stations so its important to shop around.I often plan filling up to coincide with where I am going and get a list of cheap stations e-mailed to me weekly

          Good luck with fixing your mill

          Gerry
          Leeds UK

          ________________________________
          > To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
          > From: chunk07@...
          > Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 06:44:05 -0400
          > Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: Mill controller woes
          >
          >
          >
          > Think about what, BobF?
          > In these economic times when the cost of living is constantly going
          > up, but my income doesn't? I'm sure if given the chance to purchase gas
          > at one station for $3.50/ gal. when across the road there is another
          > station selling gas at $3.00/gal. most of us would drive across the
          > street. I've been known to drive across town to save 2¢ on a gallon of
          > gas.
          > Economics is economics. Brand loyalty is one thing, but unjustified
          > higher prices is another. I'm thankful for the troubleshooting document
          > provided by LMS, and I have spent hundreds of dollars there for
          > tooling. Even then, I shopped around for the best deal on what I
          > wanted/needed. But paying twice the price for the same spec part ain't
          > gonna happen...
          > Today, I will work on setting up a treadmill controller and motor to
          > run the mill until I get the parts I ordered to fix the original
          > controller.
          >
          > Chuck in E. TN
          >
          >
        • chucketn
          ... I didn t say the Drive troubleshooting guide wasn t worth anything. I expressly stated that I used it and was glad it was available. Several other guides
          Message 4 of 24 , Sep 5, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, Robert Francis <bobf0648@...> wrote:
            >
            > I guess the troubleshooting guide isn't worth anything to you.
            >
            > Someday it wont be available, then what?
            >
            > Bob
            >
            I didn't say the Drive troubleshooting guide wasn't worth anything. I expressly stated that I used it and was glad it was available. Several other guides available on the web lead me to the same conclusion.
            I don't get your point.
            Do you shop in more than one grocery store? Do you buy anything on sale? I bet you do.
            Why should I pay higher prices for anything I buy, when the same thing, at the same quality, is available for less somewhere else?
            Maybe LMS is charging too much! By my purchasing the part elsewhere at a lower price maybe LMS will lower theirs.
            Obviously you have all the money you need or want. If money was no object, yes, I'd pay the price.
            I think we can agree to disagree. LMS isn't going to go broke because I spent a few dollars elsewhere. You can help support them.
            I do computer repairs as my second job. If I charged as much as the big name estabolished shops, I wouldn't get much business.I make money because I do the same quality for less. I'm not trying to start a flame war, but business is business.

            Chuck in E. TN
          • chucketn
            Well, after a long day in the shop, my poor ole X2 mill is back in service. I removed the stock motor, disconnected the AC, and adapted a 2 1/2 hp treadmill
            Message 5 of 24 , Sep 5, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              Well, after a long day in the shop, my poor ole X2 mill is back in service. I removed the stock motor, disconnected the AC, and adapted a 2 1/2 hp treadmill motor to it.
              I made a belt pulley from the left had thread cast iron flywheel/groved pulley that was on the treadmill.
              I adapted the end plate of the treadmill motor to the mounting plate of the origional motor that adapts to the belt drive and adjusts the belt tension.
              I replaced the broken fuse holder, that the origional owner of the mill had bypassed, with the speed control pot for the treadmill controller.
              I can swap the origional motor back by removing 4 screws, and removing the speed pot, reinstalling the origional motor spacers and motor after the origional controller is repaired.
              I have another 2 1/2 hp motor the same size I will eventually set up to fit my MicroMark lathe. And another one for the belt sander, and another for... Oh, it never ends.
              Oh, the treadmill motor, driving the smaller pulley on the belt drive, runs steadily from 50 rpm to 2600 rpm! Woohoo!

              Chuck in E. TN
            • November X-Ray
              Can you tell any difference in the torque? More or Less, if any? From: chucketn To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday,
              Message 6 of 24 , Sep 5, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                Can you tell any difference in the torque? More or Less, if any?

                From: chucketn <chunk07@...>
                To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, September 5, 2011 4:13 PM
                Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: Mill controller woes

                 
                Well, after a long day in the shop, my poor ole X2 mill is back in service. I removed the stock motor, disconnected the AC, and adapted a 2 1/2 hp treadmill motor to it.
                I made a belt pulley from the left had thread cast iron flywheel/groved pulley that was on the treadmill.
                I adapted the end plate of the treadmill motor to the mounting plate of the origional motor that adapts to the belt drive and adjusts the belt tension.
                I replaced the broken fuse holder, that the origional owner of the mill had bypassed, with the speed control pot for the treadmill controller.
                I can swap the origional motor back by removing 4 screws, and removing the speed pot, reinstalling the origional motor spacers and motor after the origional controller is repaired.
                I have another 2 1/2 hp motor the same size I will eventually set up to fit my MicroMark lathe. And another one for the belt sander, and another for... Oh, it never ends.
                Oh, the treadmill motor, driving the smaller pulley on the belt drive, runs steadily from 50 rpm to 2600 rpm! Woohoo!

                Chuck in E. TN



              • usarmyfly
                Pics? You gotta have pics! I have a treadmill motor under the bench for a rainy day. I was debating how to hook it up and it sounds like you found a good way
                Message 7 of 24 , Sep 5, 2011
                • 0 Attachment
                  Pics? You gotta have pics! I have a treadmill motor under the bench for a rainy day. I was debating how to hook it up and it sounds like you found a good way for the whole system.

                  --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "chucketn" <chunk07@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Well, after a long day in the shop, my poor ole X2 mill is back in service. I removed the stock motor, disconnected the AC, and adapted a 2 1/2 hp treadmill motor to it.
                  > I made a belt pulley from the left had thread cast iron flywheel/groved pulley that was on the treadmill.
                  > I adapted the end plate of the treadmill motor to the mounting plate of the origional motor that adapts to the belt drive and adjusts the belt tension.
                  > I replaced the broken fuse holder, that the origional owner of the mill had bypassed, with the speed control pot for the treadmill controller.
                  > I can swap the origional motor back by removing 4 screws, and removing the speed pot, reinstalling the origional motor spacers and motor after the origional controller is repaired.
                  > I have another 2 1/2 hp motor the same size I will eventually set up to fit my MicroMark lathe. And another one for the belt sander, and another for... Oh, it never ends.
                  > Oh, the treadmill motor, driving the smaller pulley on the belt drive, runs steadily from 50 rpm to 2600 rpm! Woohoo!
                  >
                  > Chuck in E. TN
                  >
                • Barry Young
                  Drop it chuck and anybody wanting to argue with Chuck. We get your point. Your next post along this line will result in your being moderated. Get back to
                  Message 8 of 24 , Sep 5, 2011
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Drop it chuck and anybody wanting to argue with Chuck. We get your point. Your next post along this line will result in your being moderated. Get back to amateur machining.

                    Thank you

                    Barry Young
                    Group Owner.


                    From: chucketn <chunk07@...>
                    To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Monday, September 5, 2011 5:35 AM
                    Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: Mill controller woes



                    --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, Robert Francis <bobf0648@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >  I guess the troubleshooting guide isn't worth anything to you.
                    >
                    > Someday it wont be available, then what?
                    >
                    > Bob
                    >
                    I didn't say the Drive troubleshooting guide wasn't worth anything. I expressly stated that I used it and was glad it was available. Several other guides available on the web lead me to the same conclusion.
                    I don't get your point.
                    Do you shop in more than one grocery store? Do you buy anything on sale? I bet you do.
                    Why should I pay  higher prices for anything I buy, when the same thing, at the same quality, is available for less somewhere else?
                    Maybe LMS is charging too much! By my purchasing the part elsewhere at a lower price maybe LMS will lower theirs.
                    Obviously you have all the money you need or want. If money was no object, yes, I'd pay the price.
                    I think we can agree to disagree. LMS isn't going to go broke because I spent a few dollars elsewhere. You can help support them.
                    I do computer repairs as my second job. If I charged as much as the big name estabolished shops, I wouldn't get much business.I make money because I do the same quality for less. I'm not trying to start a flame war, but business is business.

                    Chuck in E. TN



                    ------------------------------------

                    Yahoo! Groups Links

                    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GrizHFMinimill/

                    <*> Your email settings:
                        Individual Email | Traditional

                    <*> To change settings online go to:
                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GrizHFMinimill/join
                        (Yahoo! ID required)

                    <*> To change settings via email:
                        GrizHFMinimill-digest@yahoogroups.com
                        GrizHFMinimill-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

                    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        GrizHFMinimill-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



                  • v_flad
                    Chuck, I had a simular problem with the stock control board. I found a KBLC board on ebay, and havn t looked back. much better control, and more power. I
                    Message 9 of 24 , Sep 5, 2011
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Chuck,
                      I had a simular problem with the stock control board. I found a KBLC board on ebay, and havn't looked back. much better control, and more power. I adjusted max to 115VDC, on a 110 motor, and it works real well. I have the extra power if I need it. It cost me about 15 bucks, and an afternoon.

                      Good luck to you!

                      vFlad
                    • rrschmid
                      Hello Chuck, I found a replacement 5K pot with switch at . The Mouser part number is 315-2415F-5K. The switch is SPDT so it can be
                      Message 10 of 24 , Sep 5, 2011
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hello Chuck,
                        I found a replacement 5K pot with switch at <http://www.mouser.com/>.

                        The Mouser part number is 315-2415F-5K. The switch is SPDT so
                        it can be wired for whichever configuration you need. HTH.
                        Cheers,
                        Rich Schmidt
                        --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, a rien <amriensr@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > The first thing you might want to do is change the speed control pot. Replace it with a better quality piece. I found my pot to be unreliable and bought a new one from Mauser Electric. Maybe another forum member can chime in with the part number for you.
                        >
                        > --- On Sun, 9/4/11, chucketn <chunk07@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > From: chucketn <chunk07@...>
                        > Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: Mill controller woes
                        > To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                        > Date: Sunday, September 4, 2011, 10:35 AM
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "chucketn" <chunk07@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > My X2 mill has started playing up again. First it started acting like the motor was cutting out during a cut. I checked all connections again. I even replaced the brushes. Now, under load or not the speed randomly jumps up to roughly twice the set speed. I can't afford to replace the controller now. Help! Is this the symptom of a fet going bad? I do believe I have some spares.
                        > >
                        > > Chuck in E. TN
                        > >
                        > More symptoms. Now the speed control pot/switch is intermittent. I can turn it off and the motor continues to run. Sometimes turning it of and on by the speed pot/switch has no effect and it runs at full speed.
                        > Time to re-read the troubleshooting files again...
                        >
                        > Chuck in E. TN
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                      • peter_cassar
                        I have an earlier X2 about 12 years old. I went through 2 controller boards in 12 months and built my own after that. I don t know what happened to the first
                        Message 11 of 24 , Sep 6, 2011
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I have an earlier X2 about 12 years old. I went through 2 controller boards in 12 months and built my own after that. I don't know what happened to the first board but suspect a power surge. The replacement board stopped working within a week due to a dry solder joint on the large inductor coil. I could see that the bottom pad had a good joint but the top pad takes all the power and had vaporized by arcing to the inductor leg. I'm suspicious that there was no solder on this pad.This would have been hand assembled in China and the technician soldered the bottom pad but would've found it difficult to reach the top pad with the iron. The Quality Assurance on these controllers is poor although if you analyze the circuit it has all the necessary features of a good controller.

                          --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "v_flad" <flad@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > Chuck,
                          > I had a simular problem with the stock control board. I found a KBLC board on ebay, and havn't looked back. much better control, and more power. I adjusted max to 115VDC, on a 110 motor, and it works real well. I have the extra power if I need it. It cost me about 15 bucks, and an afternoon.
                          >
                          > Good luck to you!
                          >
                          > vFlad
                          >
                        • Bob
                          Thirty years ago when my company imported a lot of electronics from China (Hong Kong), most double side PCBs made used plated thru holes and a good solder
                          Message 12 of 24 , Sep 7, 2011
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Thirty  years ago when my company imported a lot of electronics from China (Hong Kong), most double side PCBs made used plated thru holes and a good solder joint should have been made. Probably a bad board, boards these days aren’t hand soldered but are soldered by using a wave soldering machine. The Plating process could have been poor or the board wasn’t preheated enough prior to the wave soldering. Your board would have tested fine until the eventual joint failure.  Failures do occur and these kind are harder to catch. Most Chinese manufacturers then  accepted a 5% failure rate as a satisfactory rate. My contracts called for a 2% QA failure rate as being acceptable...... had to work with them to keep it that low....
                             
                            I f found that if you had long term on going contracts and repeat business you got better results.  One contract was for only 10,000 items. The manufacturer sampled to make sure that all shipments met QA requirements and just set aside the bad units and didn't fix them. Then shipped these bad units in the final container, they got their money, we got the duds. That was 30 years ago, I hope things have gotten better! The other company gave us good service because we were buying 40,000 items per month and had overlapping contract for various items and they tried to keep us happy!
                             
                            I don’t know how many of these controllers they have made, but 5% of 50,000 (assumption) boards would be 2,500 bad controllers. I don’t think there have been anywhere near that number of failures. YMMV
                             
                            Bob
                            Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 8:58 PM
                            Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: Mill controller woes
                             
                             

                            I have an earlier X2 about 12 years old. I went through 2 controller boards in 12 months and built my own after that. I don't know what happened to the first board but suspect a power surge. The replacement board stopped working within a week due to a dry solder joint on the large inductor coil. I could see that the bottom pad had a good joint but the top pad takes all the power and had vaporized by arcing to the inductor leg. I'm suspicious that there was no solder on this pad.This would have been hand assembled in China and the technician soldered the bottom pad but would've found it difficult to reach the top pad with the iron. The Quality Assurance on these controllers is poor although if you analyze the circuit it has all the necessary features of a good controller.

                            --- In mailto:GrizHFMinimill%40yahoogroups.com, "v_flad" <flad@...> wrote:

                            >
                            >
                            > Chuck,
                            > I had a
                            simular problem with the stock control board. I found a KBLC board on ebay, and havn't looked back. much better control, and more power. I adjusted max to 115VDC, on a 110 motor, and it works real well. I have the extra power if I need it. It cost me about 15 bucks, and an afternoon.
                            >
                            > Good luck to
                            you!
                            >
                            > vFlad
                            >

                          • Tony Smith
                            Then there’s the old story about Japanese manufacturers. The 1,000 part order is sent with instructions for a very high QA rate – 0.1%, or 1 in 1,000. The
                            Message 13 of 24 , Sep 8, 2011
                            • 0 Attachment

                              Then there’s the old story about Japanese manufacturers.

                               

                              The 1,000 part order is sent with instructions for a very high QA rate – 0.1%, or 1 in 1,000.

                               

                              The stock arrives in two lots, one large and one small box, with a note.  “We don’t know why you asked us to make one that is broken, so we sent it in a different box so you can find it easily.”

                               

                              QA these days is simply price – you get what you pay for (usually).  Cheap = no testing.  I brought some cheap (<$20 vs $100) temperature controllers off eBay, one didn’t work.  A bit of soldering on the display got skipped on that one…  easy to fix, but it was obviously never plugged in before shipping.  Nice little units actually.  Sound like the mills!

                               

                              Tony

                               

                               

                               

                              Thirty  years ago when my company imported a lot of electronics from China (Hong Kong), most double side PCBs made used plated thru holes and a good solder joint should have been made. Probably a bad board, boards these days aren’t hand soldered but are soldered by using a wave soldering machine. The Plating process could have been poor or the board wasn’t preheated enough prior to the wave soldering. Your board would have tested fine until the eventual joint failure.  Failures do occur and these kind are harder to catch. Most Chinese manufacturers then  accepted a 5% failure rate as a satisfactory rate. My contracts called for a 2% QA failure rate as being acceptable...... had to work with them to keep it that low....

                               

                            • chucketn
                              ... I posted picks of the 2.5 hp motor and its controller. I already had the belt drive on the mill. I had to make taller spacers to allow for the longer motor
                              Message 14 of 24 , Sep 17, 2011
                              • 0 Attachment
                                --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "usarmyfly" <usarmyfly@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Pics? You gotta have pics! >

                                I posted picks of the 2.5 hp motor and its controller. I already had the belt drive on the mill. I had to make taller spacers to allow for the longer motor shaft. I sawed the hub off the origional treadmill motor flywheel and turned it into a v-belt pulley.
                                Works great, haven't been able to stall it yet. According to the DRO, the motor runs 38-2660 rpm on the low speed pulley setting. Plenty of range for me.
                                The only thing I don't like about it is that I have to turn the speed pot about half way up to get the motor to start, then back the speed down to what I need.
                                This is the MC-60 tradmill controller. I have another one just like it and another 2.5 hp motor for the lathe if I ever need it.
                                I received the mosfets to repair the origional controller, but don't think I'll bother...

                                Chuck in E. TN
                              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.