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Best Method for Countersinking?

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  • pdxrobpotter
    I m relatively new to metal working, and I m having some trouble getting a nice clean countersunk hole. I ve been trying to use the same four-flute countersink
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 1, 2011
      I'm relatively new to metal working, and I'm having some trouble getting a nice clean countersunk hole. I've been trying to use the same four-flute countersink bits that I use for woodworking. What I get is a lot of chatter and a very rough, often off-center hole. I don't know if it is the bit, my technique, or both. I note that MSC offers a stunning assortment of countersink types, ranging from one to six flutes, in different configurations and angles - but I'm not overlooking the fact that it may just be the way I'm trying to use what I have. Would anyone care to provide some guidance?

      Thanks.

      Rob in Portland, Oregon
    • usarmyfly
      I am also interested in a good technique for this. I have tried drill bits also to no avail. I am trying to countersink the slide stop hole in a pistol and
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 1, 2011
        I am also interested in a good technique for this. I have tried drill bits also to no avail. I am trying to countersink the slide stop hole in a pistol and want a clean countersink.

        --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "pdxrobpotter" <rob@...> wrote:
        >
        > I'm relatively new to metal working, and I'm having some trouble getting a nice clean countersunk hole. I've been trying to use the same four-flute countersink bits that I use for woodworking. What I get is a lot of chatter and a very rough, often off-center hole. I don't know if it is the bit, my technique, or both. I note that MSC offers a stunning assortment of countersink types, ranging from one to six flutes, in different configurations and angles - but I'm not overlooking the fact that it may just be the way I'm trying to use what I have. Would anyone care to provide some guidance?
        >
        > Thanks.
        >
        > Rob in Portland, Oregon
        >
      • Dale E
        Hi, I prefer the single flute countersinks for steels myself. I often have trouble with the zero and multi-flute ones. Chatter can be caused by a number of
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 1, 2011
          Hi,

          I prefer the single flute countersinks for steels myself. I often have trouble with the zero and multi-flute ones. Chatter can be caused by a number of things. A little cutting fluid can help. Not enough feed, the tool needs to cut. Or you could be running a bit fast. A worn/loose spindle can also cause chatter.

          Dale

          On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 8:53 PM, pdxrobpotter <rob@...> wrote:
           

          I'm relatively new to metal working, and I'm having some trouble getting a nice clean countersunk hole. I've been trying to use the same four-flute countersink bits that I use for woodworking. What I get is a lot of chatter and a very rough, often off-center hole. I don't know if it is the bit, my technique, or both. I note that MSC offers a stunning assortment of countersink types, ranging from one to six flutes, in different configurations and angles - but I'm not overlooking the fact that it may just be the way I'm trying to use what I have. Would anyone care to provide some guidance?

          Thanks.

          Rob in Portland, Oregon


        • Robert Clark
          I have had the same trouble, like Dale said the bit needs to eat slow but hard. Regards Robert  From: pdxrobpotter ... I have had the same
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 1, 2011
            I have had the same trouble, like Dale said the bit needs to eat slow but hard.
            Regards Robert 

            From: pdxrobpotter <rob@...>
            To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, August 1, 2011 9:53 PM
            Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Best Method for Countersinking?

             
            I'm relatively new to metal working, and I'm having some trouble getting a nice clean countersunk hole. I've been trying to use the same four-flute countersink bits that I use for woodworking. What I get is a lot of chatter and a very rough, often off-center hole. I don't know if it is the bit, my technique, or both. I note that MSC offers a stunning assortment of countersink types, ranging from one to six flutes, in different configurations and angles - but I'm not overlooking the fact that it may just be the way I'm trying to use what I have. Would anyone care to provide some guidance?

            Thanks.

            Rob in Portland, Oregon



          • ckinzer@att.net
            Single flute is all I use and at slowish speeds. If you use one of those hand deburring tools, you can see that slow and sharp gives a clean edge. Also, it
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 1, 2011
              Single flute is all I use and at slowish speeds.  If you use one of those hand deburring tools, you can see that slow and sharp gives a clean edge.
               
              Also, it must be sharp to work right.
               
              Chuck K.
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Dale E
              Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 9:03 PM
              Subject: Re: [GrizHFMinimill] Best Method for Countersinking?

               

              Hi,

              I prefer the single flute countersinks for steels myself. I often have trouble with the zero and multi-flute ones. Chatter can be caused by a number of things. A little cutting fluid can help. Not enough feed, the tool needs to cut. Or you could be running a bit fast. A worn/loose spindle can also cause chatter.

              Dale

              On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 8:53 PM, pdxrobpotter <rob@...> wrote:
               

              I'm relatively new to metal working, and I'm having some trouble getting a nice clean countersunk hole. I've been trying to use the same four-flute countersink bits that I use for woodworking. What I get is a lot of chatter and a very rough, often off-center hole. I don't know if it is the bit, my technique, or both. I note that MSC offers a stunning assortment of countersink types, ranging from one to six flutes, in different configurations and angles - but I'm not overlooking the fact that it may just be the way I'm trying to use what I have. Would anyone care to provide some guidance?

              Thanks.

              Rob in Portland, Oregon


            • Keith Burton
              My best results have been by use a 90degree spotting drill to start the hole and create the countersink before drilling through with a smaller drill. In UK,
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 1, 2011
                My best results have been by use a 90degree spotting drill to start the hole
                and create the countersink before drilling through with a smaller drill.
                In UK, countersinks are 90degrees but I have no idea whether 82degree
                spotting drills exist.

                Keith


                -----Original Message-----
                From: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com]
                On Behalf Of pdxrobpotter
                Sent: 02 August 2011 2:53 AM
                To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Best Method for Countersinking?

                I'm relatively new to metal working, and I'm having some trouble getting a
                nice clean countersunk hole. I've been trying to use the same four-flute
                countersink bits that I use for woodworking. What I get is a lot of chatter
                and a very rough, often off-center hole. I don't know if it is the bit, my
                technique, or both. I note that MSC offers a stunning assortment of
                countersink types, ranging from one to six flutes, in different
                configurations and angles - but I'm not overlooking the fact that it may
                just be the way I'm trying to use what I have. Would anyone care to provide
                some guidance?

                Thanks.

                Rob in Portland, Oregon




                ------------------------------------

                Yahoo! Groups Links
              • Harvey White
                ... I tend to use the multiple flutes variety, and a slow RPM with relatively heavy pressure. You can peck at it once you get the feel. I think that the
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 1, 2011
                  On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 01:53:02 -0000, you wrote:

                  >I'm relatively new to metal working, and I'm having some trouble getting a nice clean countersunk hole. I've been trying to use the same four-flute countersink bits that I use for woodworking. What I get is a lot of chatter and a very rough, often off-center hole. I don't know if it is the bit, my technique, or both. I note that MSC offers a stunning assortment of countersink types, ranging from one to six flutes, in different configurations and angles - but I'm not overlooking the fact that it may just be the way I'm trying to use what I have. Would anyone care to provide some guidance?

                  I tend to use the multiple flutes variety, and a slow RPM with
                  relatively heavy pressure. You can "peck" at it once you get the
                  feel.

                  I think that the chattering can be caused by bad tooth angle, low
                  pressure, and high feed rate. Of course, I'm probably not using the
                  right countersinks myself, but this seems to compensate for that a
                  bit.

                  Harvey

                  >
                  >Thanks.
                  >
                  >Rob in Portland, Oregon
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >------------------------------------
                  >
                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • David / figNoggle Designs
                  i ve found the best results come from the zero-flute type. it doesn t look like a traditional countersink. good luck! david -- Spindle-Lock For Your X3 And
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 1, 2011
                    i've found the best results come from the zero-flute type. it doesn't look
                    like a "traditional" countersink.

                    good luck!
                    david



                    --

                    Spindle-Lock For Your X3 And RF45 Mill <http://www.spindle-lock.com>
                    CNC, Plans/Kits, 8x12 Lathe, Mini-Mill, How-Tos <http://www.fignoggle.com>
                    Sieg X3/Super X3 Mill Information, HF/Enco Coupons <http://www.superx3.com>

                    On Mon, 01 Aug 2011 22:32:18 -0700, Harvey White <madyn@...>
                    wrote:

                    > On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 01:53:02 -0000, you wrote:
                    >
                    >> I'm relatively new to metal working, and I'm having some trouble
                    >> getting a nice clean countersunk hole. I've been trying to use the same
                    >> four-flute countersink bits that I use for woodworking. What I get is a
                    >> lot of chatter and a very rough, often off-center hole. I don't know if
                    >> it is the bit, my technique, or both. I note that MSC offers a stunning
                    >> assortment of countersink types, ranging from one to six flutes, in
                    >> different configurations and angles - but I'm not overlooking the fact
                    >> that it may just be the way I'm trying to use what I have. Would anyone
                    >> care to provide some guidance?
                    >
                    > I tend to use the multiple flutes variety, and a slow RPM with
                    > relatively heavy pressure. You can "peck" at it once you get the
                    > feel.
                    >
                    > I think that the chattering can be caused by bad tooth angle, low
                    > pressure, and high feed rate. Of course, I'm probably not using the
                    > right countersinks myself, but this seems to compensate for that a
                    > bit.
                    >
                    > Harvey
                    >
                    >>
                    >> Thanks.
                    >>
                    >> Rob in Portland, Oregon
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> ------------------------------------
                    >>
                    >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                  • Rexarino
                    Try this, it sometimes helps Center the countersink over the hole, then lay a thin cotton rag or typewriter paper over the hole and countersink through the
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 1, 2011
                      Try this, it sometimes helps" Center the countersink over the hole,
                      then lay a thin cotton rag or typewriter paper over the hole and
                      countersink through the rag/paper.

                      Rex

                      On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 6:53 PM, pdxrobpotter <rob@...> wrote:
                      > I'm relatively new to metal working, and I'm having some trouble getting a nice clean countersunk hole. I've been trying to use the same four-flute countersink bits that I use for woodworking. What I get is a lot of chatter and a very rough, often off-center hole. I don't know if it is the bit, my technique, or both. I note that MSC offers a stunning assortment of countersink types, ranging from one to six flutes, in different configurations and angles - but I'm not overlooking the fact that it may just be the way I'm trying to use what I have. Would anyone care to provide some guidance?
                      >
                      > Thanks.
                      >
                      > Rob in Portland, Oregon
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Rexarino
                      Aaarrgh! wrong punctuation! Here s what I intended. Try this, it sometimes helps: Center the countersink Rex, also in Portland, Oregon
                      Message 10 of 16 , Aug 1, 2011
                        Aaarrgh! wrong punctuation! Here's what I intended.

                        Try this, it sometimes helps: Center the countersink

                        Rex, also in Portland, Oregon
                      • Brian Worth
                        Hi all,  I have added a file to the group file section called spot facing cutters . In the pdf, look at option G . I have used different sizes of these for
                        Message 11 of 16 , Aug 2, 2011
                          Hi all, 
                          I have added a file to the group file section called "spot facing cutters". In the pdf, look at option "G". I have used different sizes of these for counter bores on m6 and bigger holes. If you need one for small holes then option 'E' is a good option, machined out of silver steel / drill rod with a plain diameter left on the
                          front to guide the cutter, and on the back to suit your chuck or collet.  These are easy to make, and to keep sharp simply use a sharpening stone on the edges.  Harden the silver steel by heating the working end cherry red, quench in oil, then temper in a flame to a nice straw colour. Hope this helps.

                          Regards, Brian



                        • johann_ohnesorg
                          How do you use it, freehand? In a cordless drill? Or in the mini mill? In the mini mill, give it a squirt of cutting oil, approx. 200 RPM and a lot of
                          Message 12 of 16 , Aug 2, 2011
                            How do you use it, freehand? In a cordless drill? Or in the mini mill?

                            In the mini mill, give it a squirt of cutting oil, approx. 200 RPM and a lot of pressure.
                            Freehand or cordless drill will never yield good results, the wobble of the chuck of the so called "drill" (it´s an electric screw driver, nothing else) will always generate a polygon.
                            Where does the countersink come from? The cutting angle on the tool may be to steep, then it will bite. What works for wood can be totally wrong for metal.

                            I like those a lot, bought from an american supplier and made out of real steel and sharpened afterwards, they work exceptionally well:

                            http://www.wttool.com/common/images/product/main/12020200.jpg

                            Cheers,
                            Johann
                          • pdxrobpotter
                            I ve tried countersinking in the drill press with the object hand held, in the drill press with the object clamped, and in the mill (clamped, naturally). Any
                            Message 13 of 16 , Aug 2, 2011
                              I've tried countersinking in the drill press with the object hand held, in the drill press with the object clamped, and in the mill (clamped, naturally). Any way I've tried it I've been getting the same poor results.

                              A number of responses have mentioned high pressure. That's an element of the equation that I didn't try.

                              Regarding those countersinks that you have a link to, I actually have a set like that I purchased for woodworking, and in wood they've given me the best results I've ever achieved. I love them - but I've been afraid to try them in metal, thinking that the cutting method wouldn't work in a harder substance than wood. I'll give them a try.

                              Rob


                              --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "johann_ohnesorg" <bigdukeone@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > How do you use it, freehand? In a cordless drill? Or in the mini mill?
                              >
                              > In the mini mill, give it a squirt of cutting oil, approx. 200 RPM and a lot of pressure.
                              > Freehand or cordless drill will never yield good results, the wobble of the chuck of the so called "drill" (it´s an electric screw driver, nothing else) will always generate a polygon.
                              > Where does the countersink come from? The cutting angle on the tool may be to steep, then it will bite. What works for wood can be totally wrong for metal.
                              >
                              > I like those a lot, bought from an american supplier and made out of real steel and sharpened afterwards, they work exceptionally well:
                              >
                              > http://www.wttool.com/common/images/product/main/12020200.jpg
                              >
                              > Cheers,
                              > Johann
                              >
                            • David Wiseman
                              Try this type of countersink: http://www.cromwell.co.uk/KEN0202100K Much better than the rose type which does work well in wood but we are working with metals.
                              Message 14 of 16 , Aug 2, 2011
                                Try this type of countersink:

                                http://www.cromwell.co.uk/KEN0202100K

                                Much better than the rose type which does work well in wood but we are working with metals. Just bought two in a clearout at B&Q for silly money fortunately. Price may appear to be high, but looking at the rose type of cutters they are not cheap either.


                                Tuesday, August 2, 2011, 3:42:07 AM, you wrote:

                                > I am also interested in a good technique for this. I have tried
                                > drill bits also to no avail. I am trying to countersink the slide
                                > stop hole in a pistol and want a clean countersink.


                                --
                                Best regards,
                                David Wiseman
                              • Bill Williams
                                ... Excellent choice Johann! I do not think that you can make these countersinks chatter under ANY circumstances! Bill in Boulder
                                Message 15 of 16 , Aug 2, 2011
                                  johann_ohnesorg wrote:

                                  > I like those a lot, bought from an american supplier and made out of
                                  > real steel and sharpened afterwards, they work exceptionally well:
                                  >
                                  > http://www.wttool.com/common/images/product/main/12020200.jpg
                                  >
                                  > Cheers, Johann

                                  Excellent choice Johann! I do not think that you can make these
                                  countersinks chatter under ANY circumstances! Bill in Boulder
                                • Barry Young
                                  Hi Rob in Portland: Try a good single flute countersink made by MA Ford. Turn it slow as you can and apply a firm feed. You will be fine. Barry in Tacoma
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Aug 2, 2011
                                    Hi Rob in Portland:
                                     
                                    Try a good single flute countersink made by MA Ford. Turn it slow as you can and apply a firm feed. You will be fine.
                                     
                                    Barry in Tacoma


                                    From: pdxrobpotter <rob@...>
                                    To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Mon, August 1, 2011 6:53:02 PM
                                    Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Best Method for Countersinking?

                                    I'm relatively new to metal working, and I'm having some trouble getting a nice clean countersunk hole. I've been trying to use the same four-flute countersink bits that I use for woodworking. What I get is a lot of chatter and a very rough, often off-center hole. I don't know if it is the bit, my technique, or both. I note that MSC offers a stunning assortment of countersink types, ranging from one to six flutes, in different configurations and angles - but I'm not overlooking the fact that it may just be the way I'm trying to use what I have. Would anyone care to provide some guidance?

                                    Thanks.

                                    Rob in Portland, Oregon




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