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Re: [GrizHFMinimill] slitting saws

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  • Rick Kruger
    I definitely agree with the comments about slow speed. Not sure if the slowest speed is the one, but its definitely a slow spindle speed. Kinda like thinking
    Message 1 of 15 , May 10, 2003
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      I definitely agree with the comments about slow speed. Not sure if the
      slowest speed is the one, but its definitely a slow spindle speed. Kinda
      like thinking of a thinking of a single tooth, single point cutting tool
      surface speed.

      Attached is a photo of a slitting saw arbor I made, from 1" bar stock
      (12L14 I think, but drill rod would be a better choice). Fits 5/8" dia
      arbor hole with a 1/2" shank to fit a 1/2" end mill holder. I used a
      flathead socket screw for its low profile.

      I cut the 1/8" deep x 3" long slot in the boring bar sleeve (drill rod)
      using multiple passes. Probably no more than 0.050" depth cuts. Cutting
      fluid was regular old Tap Magic Cutting Fluid. I think feed speed is also
      a factor. Going too fast could jam the saw and cause a gear crash as has
      been commented on. Too fast a spindle speed would dull the teeth more than
      crash the head, in my view, unless the feed speed was too high also. I
      would agree with the rationale of using as deep a cut as possible, rather
      than multiple light passes, as each cut just dulls the teeth more, but
      that's as much as I was comfortable with, working by feel as much as anything.

      One thing I've noticed is that the saw does not seem to run concentric as
      there is uneven cutting as it moves thru the cut. Could be just the
      misalignment allowed by the arbor shoulder being undersize, but I don't
      know how much closer I'd want to get. The arbor is 0.6235" and the saw
      0.6245", and I'm not likely to remake the arbor to find out.

      Rick

      At 11:19 PM 5/9/03 -0700, you wrote:


      >I regularly use slitting saws in my mini mill and
      >small lathe for making the screwdriver slots in screws
      >I make. I would suggest a VERY stout arbor to start
      >with. Second I would suggest the slowest possible
      >spindle speed because the diameter of a slitting saw
      >makes it very fast at the periphery. I would recommend
      >only one pass at whatever feed the machine seems
      >comfortable with. Oh, and use lots of rather heavy
      >cutting oil like Chevron 303 or an equivalent applied
      >with a cheap brush from an even cheaper Peanut can
      >with a magnet hot melt glued to the bottom so it will
      >stay handy on the cross slide rather than winging off
      >the lathe and messing up the carpeting.
      >
      >Barry Young
      >
      >
      >--- zensunni60 <ken@...> wrote:
      > > Hi
      > >
      > > Is anyone prepared to share their experiences on
      > > using slitting
      > > saws with a mini mill.
      > >
      > > I have managed, over the years, to strip teeth from
      > > three gears
      > > when using slitting saws. If the cut is substantial
      > > Now I usually
      > > make a cut first with a hacksaw and then true it up
      > > with the
      > > slitting saw. I may having been using too high a
      > > speed as I
      > > have quickly blunted the edge of saws and have
      > > recently found
      > > that is one indicator of excessive speed. I have
      > > had problems
      > > when slitting steel boring bar holders and similar
      > > items, the
      > > cuts being 50mm long by 10mm deep.
      > >
      > > I can find no tables of recommended speeds for
      > > slitting saws.
      > >
      > > Can anyone make any suggestions
      > >
      > >
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    • jjfear
      Hi Rick, You didn t have any trouble with the blade spinning without a Key on the arbor? Just curious. Jerry Fear ... Kinda ... tool ... Cutting ... is also
      Message 2 of 15 , May 10, 2003
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        Hi Rick,

        You didn't have any trouble with the blade spinning without a Key on
        the arbor? Just curious.

        Jerry Fear





        -- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, Rick Kruger <krugerr@p...> wrote:
        > I definitely agree with the comments about slow speed. Not sure if the
        > slowest speed is the one, but its definitely a slow spindle speed.
        Kinda
        > like thinking of a thinking of a single tooth, single point cutting
        tool
        > surface speed.
        >
        > Attached is a photo of a slitting saw arbor I made, from 1" bar stock
        > (12L14 I think, but drill rod would be a better choice). Fits 5/8" dia
        > arbor hole with a 1/2" shank to fit a 1/2" end mill holder. I used a
        > flathead socket screw for its low profile.
        >
        > I cut the 1/8" deep x 3" long slot in the boring bar sleeve (drill rod)
        > using multiple passes. Probably no more than 0.050" depth cuts.
        Cutting
        > fluid was regular old Tap Magic Cutting Fluid. I think feed speed
        is also
        > a factor. Going too fast could jam the saw and cause a gear crash
        as has
        > been commented on. Too fast a spindle speed would dull the teeth
        more than
        > crash the head, in my view, unless the feed speed was too high also. I
        > would agree with the rationale of using as deep a cut as possible,
        rather
        > than multiple light passes, as each cut just dulls the teeth more, but
        > that's as much as I was comfortable with, working by feel as much as
        anything.
        >
        > One thing I've noticed is that the saw does not seem to run
        concentric as
        > there is uneven cutting as it moves thru the cut. Could be just the
        > misalignment allowed by the arbor shoulder being undersize, but I don't
        > know how much closer I'd want to get. The arbor is 0.6235" and the saw
        > 0.6245", and I'm not likely to remake the arbor to find out.
        >
        > Rick
        >
        >
      • dswr@webtv.net
        I turned one out of 1 mild steel, very similar to the one in the photo. Followed the suggestions of Rudy Kouhoupt in an article in a 1982 HSM. Mine differs
        Message 3 of 15 , May 10, 2003
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          I turned one out of 1" mild steel, very similar to the one in the photo.
          Followed the suggestions of Rudy Kouhoupt in an article in a 1982 HSM.

          Mine differs from the photo in that it has a pin to engage the key slot
          on the saw blade. (this positive drive could be detrimental to the gears
          on a mini mill, if a crash occurs) Also it tightens with a socket head
          screw. (i like yours better, more clearance) Mine is custom made for a
          particular saw blade, which limits it's usefulness.

          The shank has a flat, as I use mine in a endmill holder.

          As for speed, I think you should consider the circumference of the saw
          and calculate the surface speed recommended for the material your are
          working with and reduce it to about 2/3 or less.

          Leo (pearland, tx)
        • Barry Young
          Thanks Ed, my girlfriend is a craft store junkie. We know ALL about hot melt glue around here. Barry Young ... __________________________________ Do you
          Message 4 of 15 , May 10, 2003
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            Thanks Ed, my girlfriend is a craft store junkie. We
            know ALL about hot melt glue around here.

            Barry Young


            --- Ed Blain <eblain1@...> wrote:
            > Barry Wrote:
            > Peanut can
            > > with a magnet hot melt glued to the bottom so it
            > will
            > > stay handy on the cross slide rather than winging
            > off
            > > the lathe and messing up the carpeting.
            >
            >
            > Barry- Great idea to use a magnet to hold the
            > cutting oil supply firmly
            > where you need it!
            > Ed Blain
            > San Diego
            >
            >
            >
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          • Barry Young
            Hey Rick: Nice arbor! I know what you mean about runout. I have used some extremely expensive commercial equipment with slotting/slitting saws. They all
            Message 5 of 15 , May 10, 2003
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              Hey Rick:

              Nice arbor! I know what you mean about runout. I have
              used some extremely expensive commercial equipment
              with slotting/slitting saws. They all runout. I think
              it is because of a couple of things. Nothing is
              perfect and any variation in feedrate would sound
              exactly like runout in the saw.

              Barry Young


              --- Rick Kruger <krugerr@...> wrote:
              > I definitely agree with the comments about slow
              > speed. Not sure if the
              > slowest speed is the one, but its definitely a slow
              > spindle speed. Kinda
              > like thinking of a thinking of a single tooth,
              > single point cutting tool
              > surface speed.
              >
              > Attached is a photo of a slitting saw arbor I made,
              > from 1" bar stock
              > (12L14 I think, but drill rod would be a better
              > choice). Fits 5/8" dia
              > arbor hole with a 1/2" shank to fit a 1/2" end mill
              > holder. I used a
              > flathead socket screw for its low profile.
              >
              > I cut the 1/8" deep x 3" long slot in the boring bar
              > sleeve (drill rod)
              > using multiple passes. Probably no more than 0.050"
              > depth cuts. Cutting
              > fluid was regular old Tap Magic Cutting Fluid. I
              > think feed speed is also
              > a factor. Going too fast could jam the saw and
              > cause a gear crash as has
              > been commented on. Too fast a spindle speed would
              > dull the teeth more than
              > crash the head, in my view, unless the feed speed
              > was too high also. I
              > would agree with the rationale of using as deep a
              > cut as possible, rather
              > than multiple light passes, as each cut just dulls
              > the teeth more, but
              > that's as much as I was comfortable with, working by
              > feel as much as anything.
              >
              > One thing I've noticed is that the saw does not seem
              > to run concentric as
              > there is uneven cutting as it moves thru the cut.
              > Could be just the
              > misalignment allowed by the arbor shoulder being
              > undersize, but I don't
              > know how much closer I'd want to get. The arbor is
              > 0.6235" and the saw
              > 0.6245", and I'm not likely to remake the arbor to
              > find out.
              >
              > Rick
              >
              > At 11:19 PM 5/9/03 -0700, you wrote:
              >
              >
              > >I regularly use slitting saws in my mini mill and
              > >small lathe for making the screwdriver slots in
              > screws
              > >I make. I would suggest a VERY stout arbor to start
              > >with. Second I would suggest the slowest possible
              > >spindle speed because the diameter of a slitting
              > saw
              > >makes it very fast at the periphery. I would
              > recommend
              > >only one pass at whatever feed the machine seems
              > >comfortable with. Oh, and use lots of rather heavy
              > >cutting oil like Chevron 303 or an equivalent
              > applied
              > >with a cheap brush from an even cheaper Peanut can
              > >with a magnet hot melt glued to the bottom so it
              > will
              > >stay handy on the cross slide rather than winging
              > off
              > >the lathe and messing up the carpeting.
              > >
              > >Barry Young
              > >
              > >
              > >--- zensunni60 <ken@...> wrote:
              > > > Hi
              > > >
              > > > Is anyone prepared to share their experiences on
              > > > using slitting
              > > > saws with a mini mill.
              > > >
              > > > I have managed, over the years, to strip teeth
              > from
              > > > three gears
              > > > when using slitting saws. If the cut is
              > substantial
              > > > Now I usually
              > > > make a cut first with a hacksaw and then true it
              > up
              > > > with the
              > > > slitting saw. I may having been using too high
              > a
              > > > speed as I
              > > > have quickly blunted the edge of saws and have
              > > > recently found
              > > > that is one indicator of excessive speed. I
              > have
              > > > had problems
              > > > when slitting steel boring bar holders and
              > similar
              > > > items, the
              > > > cuts being 50mm long by 10mm deep.
              > > >
              > > > I can find no tables of recommended speeds for
              > > > slitting saws.
              > > >
              > > > Can anyone make any suggestions
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > > >
              > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
              > to:
              > > > GrizHFMinimill-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > > >
              >
              <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >__________________________________
              > >Do you Yahoo!?
              > >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
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              > >
              > >
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              > >
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              > Service.
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              >

              > ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=SlittingSaw.jpg;
              x-mac-type=4A504547; x-mac-creator=4A565752
              >


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            • Rick Kruger
              Not that I m aware of, but I m not sure how I d tell if it did a little. I ve considered putting in a pin to act as a key. Rick
              Message 6 of 15 , May 10, 2003
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                Not that I'm aware of, but I'm not sure how I'd tell if it did a
                little. I've considered putting in a pin to act as a key.

                Rick


                --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "jjfear" <jjfear@i...> wrote:
                > Hi Rick,
                >
                > You didn't have any trouble with the blade spinning without a Key on
                > the arbor? Just curious.
                >
                > Jerry Fear
                >
              • Rick Kruger
                Thanks. Hadn t considered the effect of variable feed rate. Rick
                Message 7 of 15 , May 10, 2003
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                  Thanks. Hadn't considered the effect of variable feed rate.

                  Rick

                  --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, Barry Young <barryjyoung@y...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Hey Rick:
                  >
                  > Nice arbor! I know what you mean about runout. I have
                  > used some extremely expensive commercial equipment
                  > with slotting/slitting saws. They all runout. I think
                  > it is because of a couple of things. Nothing is
                  > perfect and any variation in feedrate would sound
                  > exactly like runout in the saw.
                  >
                  > Barry Young
                  >
                  >
                  > --- Rick Kruger <krugerr@p...> wrote:
                  > > I definitely agree with the comments about slow
                  > > speed. Not sure if the
                  > > slowest speed is the one, but its definitely a slow
                  > > spindle speed. Kinda
                  > > like thinking of a thinking of a single tooth,
                  > > single point cutting tool
                  > > surface speed.
                  > >
                  > > Attached is a photo of a slitting saw arbor I made,
                  > > from 1" bar stock
                  > > (12L14 I think, but drill rod would be a better
                  > > choice). Fits 5/8" dia
                  > > arbor hole with a 1/2" shank to fit a 1/2" end mill
                  > > holder. I used a
                  > > flathead socket screw for its low profile.
                  > >
                  > > I cut the 1/8" deep x 3" long slot in the boring bar
                  > > sleeve (drill rod)
                  > > using multiple passes. Probably no more than 0.050"
                  > > depth cuts. Cutting
                  > > fluid was regular old Tap Magic Cutting Fluid. I
                  > > think feed speed is also
                  > > a factor. Going too fast could jam the saw and
                  > > cause a gear crash as has
                  > > been commented on. Too fast a spindle speed would
                  > > dull the teeth more than
                  > > crash the head, in my view, unless the feed speed
                  > > was too high also. I
                  > > would agree with the rationale of using as deep a
                  > > cut as possible, rather
                  > > than multiple light passes, as each cut just dulls
                  > > the teeth more, but
                  > > that's as much as I was comfortable with, working by
                  > > feel as much as anything.
                  > >
                  > > One thing I've noticed is that the saw does not seem
                  > > to run concentric as
                  > > there is uneven cutting as it moves thru the cut.
                  > > Could be just the
                  > > misalignment allowed by the arbor shoulder being
                  > > undersize, but I don't
                  > > know how much closer I'd want to get. The arbor is
                  > > 0.6235" and the saw
                  > > 0.6245", and I'm not likely to remake the arbor to
                  > > find out.
                  > >
                  > > Rick
                • fromday2
                  I bought a cheap slitting saw arbor, did not like it because of too much runout, bought another, it was not any better. I made one with a 1 hub from 1 1/4
                  Message 8 of 15 , May 10, 2003
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                    I bought a cheap slitting saw arbor, did not like it because of too
                    much runout, bought another, it was not any better. I made one with
                    a 1" hub from 1 1/4" 10L14 bar stock and it is better than the
                    purchased ones. It was made on the mini-lathe turning the shank and
                    hub diameters without changing the setup, the stock was held in a
                    chuck and supported with a dead center. There is no key to engage
                    the keyway in the saw blades.

                    I use it in the 1/2" collet that comes with the mill. It still gives
                    a little of the rrrup, rrrup, rrrup, sound as it cuts proving that
                    the teeth are not running exactly concentric with the spindle but it
                    still works very well.

                    I find that very slow rpm and cutting fluid works best, I tend to
                    make deep cuts rather then lots of shallow cuts. I have on occasion
                    made cuts over 1/2" deep in steel and 3/4" in hard bronze.

                    HTH

                    Al Day

                    --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "zensunni60" <ken@z...> wrote:
                    > Hi
                    >
                    > Is anyone prepared to share their experiences on using slitting
                    > saws with a mini mill.
                  • dswr@webtv.net
                    I bought a slitting saw holder (import) from WT. It is one of those which will accept a range of center holes. It has no key. I have used it for slicing
                    Message 9 of 15 , May 11, 2003
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                      I bought a slitting saw holder (import) from WT. It is one of those
                      which will accept a range of center holes. It has no key. I have used it
                      for slicing through aluminum with a 3" OD saw with no slippage that I
                      could detect.

                      I think that in the event of too aggressive of a feed, that having the
                      blade slip would be a real advantage in protecting the mini mill's
                      "plastic drive".

                      Leo (pearland, tx)

                      BTW; one thing i have noticed is that when the saw cuts through the last
                      connecting bridge of material, the loose part is slung away from the
                      mill and has an uneven surface at that point. any suggestions on how to
                      prevent this?
                    • dswr@webtv.net
                      Oops! One more point that I think would be important! A conventional cut is called for here. A climb cut would be asking for trouble! Leo (pearland, tx)
                      Message 10 of 15 , May 11, 2003
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                        Oops!

                        One more point that I think would be important! A conventional cut is
                        called for here. A climb cut would be asking for trouble!

                        Leo (pearland, tx)
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