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So... I officially ruined my first part

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  • Brandon Worrell
    I think I ve passed one of the important initiation rituals for a machining noob and ruined my first part last night. I was drilling a hole with a 1/16 drill
    Message 1 of 24 , Jan 25, 2011
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      I think I've passed one of the important initiation rituals for a machining noob and ruined my first part last night. I was drilling a hole with a 1/16" drill bit about 1-1/4 inches deep in aluminum and it snapped off. The part was a frame for a small steam engine, and I had many, many hours invested in it so far. Ugh. Oh well, I chalk it up to a learning experience.

      Does anyone have any tips for drilling a relatively deep hole in aluminum with a small drill bit? Do I need to be more careful about taking it slow and "pecking" at it? Is high or low RPM recommended for this kind of operation? I assume plenty of cutting fluid is in order. Any other thoughts or advice out there?

      Thanks,
      Brandon
    • Jim E.
      Try Enco p/n 290-1291 Graciously, Jim E. Lakewood, Calif. All Hail Rube Goldberg!
      Message 2 of 24 , Jan 25, 2011
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        Try Enco <http://www.use-enco.com> p/n 290-1291


        Graciously,
        Jim E.
        Lakewood, Calif.
        All Hail Rube Goldberg!


        Brandon Worrell wrote:
        > I think I've passed one of the important initiation rituals for a machining noob and ruined my first part last night. I was drilling a hole with a 1/16" drill bit about 1-1/4 inches deep in aluminum and it snapped off. The part was a frame for a small steam engine, and I had many, many hours invested in it so far. Ugh. Oh well, I chalk it up to a learning experience.
        >
        > Does anyone have any tips for drilling a relatively deep hole in aluminum with a small drill bit? Do I need to be more careful about taking it slow and "pecking" at it? Is high or low RPM recommended for this kind of operation? I assume plenty of cutting fluid is in order. Any other thoughts or advice out there?
        >
        > Thanks,
        > Brandon
      • rich
        all i can tell you is a fast drill speed atleast 1000rpm a good oil and drill with ease....don t force it and take the drill out of the part often and clear
        Message 3 of 24 , Jan 25, 2011
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          all i can tell you is a fast drill speed atleast 1000rpm a good oil and drill with ease....don't force it and take the drill out of the part often and clear the chips.....the deeper you go the more often you clear .the flutes arn't very long for a 1 1/2 hole so watch out .once you get to the body of the drill anything can happen ......Rich

          --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "Brandon Worrell" <brandon@...> wrote:
          >
          > I think I've passed one of the important initiation rituals for a machining noob and ruined my first part last night. I was drilling a hole with a 1/16" drill bit about 1-1/4 inches deep in aluminum and it snapped off. The part was a frame for a small steam engine, and I had many, many hours invested in it so far. Ugh. Oh well, I chalk it up to a learning experience.
          >
          > Does anyone have any tips for drilling a relatively deep hole in aluminum with a small drill bit? Do I need to be more careful about taking it slow and "pecking" at it? Is high or low RPM recommended for this kind of operation? I assume plenty of cutting fluid is in order. Any other thoughts or advice out there?
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Brandon
          >
        • rich
          i forgot to ask,can you drill from the oposite side and tap the broken drill out ?
          Message 4 of 24 , Jan 25, 2011
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            i forgot to ask,can you drill from the oposite side and tap the broken drill out ?

            --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "Brandon Worrell" <brandon@...> wrote:
            >
            > I think I've passed one of the important initiation rituals for a machining noob and ruined my first part last night. I was drilling a hole with a 1/16" drill bit about 1-1/4 inches deep in aluminum and it snapped off. The part was a frame for a small steam engine, and I had many, many hours invested in it so far. Ugh. Oh well, I chalk it up to a learning experience.
            >
            > Does anyone have any tips for drilling a relatively deep hole in aluminum with a small drill bit? Do I need to be more careful about taking it slow and "pecking" at it? Is high or low RPM recommended for this kind of operation? I assume plenty of cutting fluid is in order. Any other thoughts or advice out there?
            >
            > Thanks,
            > Brandon
            >
          • Brandon Worrell
            Drilling the opposite side and tapping it out might be possible. I would be drilling through the opposite side of a reamed hole for the main bearing, but it
            Message 5 of 24 , Jan 25, 2011
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              Drilling the opposite side and tapping it out might be possible. I would be drilling through the opposite side of a reamed hole for the main bearing, but it shouldn't affect anything. I may give that a try. Thanks for the tip.
            • rich
              it s worth a try and salvage the part ...Rich
              Message 6 of 24 , Jan 25, 2011
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                it's worth a try and salvage the part ...Rich

                --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "Brandon Worrell" <brandon@...> wrote:
                >
                > Drilling the opposite side and tapping it out might be possible. I would be drilling through the opposite side of a reamed hole for the main bearing, but it shouldn't affect anything. I may give that a try. Thanks for the tip.
                >
              • Malcolm Parker-Lisberg
                Brandon First you could try to recover the part by etching out the broken drill with Alum, see:
                Message 7 of 24 , Jan 25, 2011
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                  Brandon

                  First you could try to recover the part by etching out the broken drill with Alum, see:
                  <http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=270.0>


                  Peck drilling is used for deep holes, frequently removing the drill to clear the flutes.

                  Drills with a longer pitch to the flutes also help.

                  Malclm

                  I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!

                  --- On Tue, 1/25/11, Brandon Worrell <brandon@...> wrote:

                  From: Brandon Worrell <brandon@...>
                  Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] So... I officially ruined my first part
                  To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2011, 6:07 PM

                   

                  I think I've passed one of the important initiation rituals for a machining noob and ruined my first part last night. I was drilling a hole with a 1/16" drill bit about 1-1/4 inches deep in aluminum and it snapped off. The part was a frame for a small steam engine, and I had many, many hours invested in it so far. Ugh. Oh well, I chalk it up to a learning experience.

                  Does anyone have any tips for drilling a relatively deep hole in aluminum with a small drill bit? Do I need to be more careful about taking it slow and "pecking" at it? Is high or low RPM recommended for this kind of operation? I assume plenty of cutting fluid is in order. Any other thoughts or advice out there?

                  Thanks,
                  Brandon


                • Richard
                  If you can t manage to save it, could you bore a small hole there, make an aluminum plug to press in the hole and machine that area down? If you lined up the
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jan 25, 2011
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                    If you can't manage to save it, could you bore a small hole there, make an aluminum plug to press in the hole and machine that area down?
                    If you lined up the grain and machined I'd bet it wouldn't be noticable.  It might save you from starting from scratch.
                     
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 12:52 PM
                    Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: So... I officially ruined my first part

                     

                    Drilling the opposite side and tapping it out might be possible. I would be drilling through the opposite side of a reamed hole for the main bearing, but it shouldn't affect anything. I may give that a try. Thanks for the tip.

                  • gerry waclawiak
                    Congratulations Jim, now youv e got that out of the way you won t need to do it again! With any deep hole the biggest problem is chip clearance, especially
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jan 25, 2011
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                      Congratulations Jim,

                      now youv'e got that out of the way you won't need to do it again!

                      With any deep hole the biggest problem is chip clearance, especially with small diameter bits which are fragile so you are quite right in "pecking" to regularly clear the chips but you want a high speed. I don't have my tables handy but it will likely be more than the top speed of the mill. A nice sharp drill bit wil help things.

                      There is no need for a cutting fluid bit I usually give a squirt of WD40 or similar with aluminium to give a better finish and reduce the risk of aluminium welding itself to the cutting edges

                      Gerry
                      Leeds UK

                      To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                      From: jim0000@...
                      Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 10:20:20 -0800
                      Subject: Re: [GrizHFMinimill] So... I officially ruined my first part

                       
                      Try Enco <http://www.use-enco.com> p/n 290-1291

                      Graciously,
                      Jim E.
                      Lakewood, Calif.
                      All Hail Rube Goldberg!

                      Brandon Worrell wrote:
                      > I think I've passed one of the important initiation rituals for a machining noob and ruined my first part last night. I was drilling a hole with a 1/16" drill bit about 1-1/4 inches deep in aluminum and it snapped off. The part was a frame for a small steam engine, and I had many, many hours invested in it so far. Ugh. Oh well, I chalk it up to a learning experience.
                      >
                      > Does anyone have any tips for drilling a relatively deep hole in aluminum with a small drill bit? Do I need to be more careful about taking it slow and "pecking" at it? Is high or low RPM recommended for this kind of operation? I assume plenty of cutting fluid is in order. Any other thoughts or advice out there?
                      >
                      > Thanks,
                      > Brandon

                    • Mark Wendt
                      Brandon, All is not lost. Soak the part in alum and hot water and eventually the alum will eat away at the drill. I ve used the same method for dissolving
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jan 26, 2011
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                        Brandon,

                        All is not lost. Soak the part in alum and hot water and eventually the
                        alum will eat away at the drill. I've used the same method for
                        dissolving taps broken off in aluminum. The alum will eat the steel,
                        but no the aluminum.

                        Mark

                        On 01/25/2011 01:07 PM, Brandon Worrell wrote:
                        > I think I've passed one of the important initiation rituals for a machining noob and ruined my first part last night. I was drilling a hole with a 1/16" drill bit about 1-1/4 inches deep in aluminum and it snapped off. The part was a frame for a small steam engine, and I had many, many hours invested in it so far. Ugh. Oh well, I chalk it up to a learning experience.
                        >
                        > Does anyone have any tips for drilling a relatively deep hole in aluminum with a small drill bit? Do I need to be more careful about taking it slow and "pecking" at it? Is high or low RPM recommended for this kind of operation? I assume plenty of cutting fluid is in order. Any other thoughts or advice out there?
                        >
                        > Thanks,
                        > Brandon
                      • javickers
                        For a hole that size, you want to turn your drill as fast as possible (I d use 4600rpm, the fastest my mill will go), use plenty of lube (WD40 or kerosene are
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jan 26, 2011
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                          For a hole that size, you want to turn your drill as fast as possible (I'd use 4600rpm, the fastest my mill will go), use plenty of lube (WD40 or kerosene are good for cutting Ali), and peck maybe 1/4" at a time, less as you get deeper. Bring the drill all the way out each peck & be sure that all the chips are off it before pecking again. It sounds tedious, but with practice you'll find it's pretty easy, and unlike most machining operations only needs 3 hands...

                          The chances are your drill snapped because the flutes filled up & bound against the side of the hole, and the torque was too much for such a small drill.

                          If it's any consolation, I broke 2 taps off in a piece with over 50 hours machining in it... nightmare. Eventually I had to mill around each tap until I could physically extract them, then make a plug to fit the hole. A bit of loctite, and you'd have to know what you were looking for to see it now.


                          Cheers,
                          Ade.


                          --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "Brandon Worrell" <brandon@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I think I've passed one of the important initiation rituals for a machining noob and ruined my first part last night. I was drilling a hole with a 1/16" drill bit about 1-1/4 inches deep in aluminum and it snapped off. The part was a frame for a small steam engine, and I had many, many hours invested in it so far. Ugh. Oh well, I chalk it up to a learning experience.
                          >
                          > Does anyone have any tips for drilling a relatively deep hole in aluminum with a small drill bit? Do I need to be more careful about taking it slow and "pecking" at it? Is high or low RPM recommended for this kind of operation? I assume plenty of cutting fluid is in order. Any other thoughts or advice out there?
                          >
                          > Thanks,
                          > Brandon
                          >
                        • clumsysoftballerz
                          I have been buying my still bits from mcmaster-carr and spending the extra buck on the long life ruin coating but thinking that helps for longevity but I
                          Message 12 of 24 , Jan 26, 2011
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                            I have been buying my still bits from mcmaster-carr and spending the extra buck on the long life ruin coating but thinking that helps for longevity but I don't know if it makes it and harder? now I am thinking about cobalt bits to prevent this from happening on my prediction parts.. but $2 vs $13 makes it hard.

                            where did that bit come from? HF, Dewalt, random?

                            were you using tap fluid?

                            I game been lucky so far and have never broken one... probably because i'm so scared and always use tap fluid and every 2-3 times the drill OD I pull out and clear. I read somewhere that anything 3x the drill diameter is considered a deep hole which seems funny since that is what they are designed to do... but none the less: doing that I have never broken a bit (except forcing a hand drill of course). I do the same for tapping and unroll last night had only ever done then by hand.

                            I am a little confused at the comment on speed. I am a newbie to milling and just now trying to un-learn all of my bad habits so I have been using lms drill and milling calculator and a .0625 'should' be run at over 22,000 tom. obviously that can't happen, but wouldn't it be best to have it at the max rpm?

                            production
                            --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "Brandon Worrell" <brandon@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I think I've passed one of the important initiation rituals for a machining noob and ruined my first part last night. I was drilling a hole with a 1/16" drill bit about 1-1/4 inches deep in aluminum and it snapped off. The part was a frame for a small steam engine, and I had many, many hours invested in it so far. Ugh. Oh well, I chalk it up to a learning experience.
                            >
                            > Does anyone have any tips for drilling a relatively deep hole in aluminum with a small drill bit? Do I need to be more careful about taking it slow and "pecking" at it? Is high or low RPM recommended for this kind of operation? I assume plenty of cutting fluid is in order. Any other thoughts or advice out there?
                            >
                            > Thanks,
                            > Brandon
                            >
                          • david@fignoggle.com
                            you don t get much tactile feel with the x2 feed, so you may want to use a micro drill chuck which usually has something like a 1/2 shank which you can either
                            Message 13 of 24 , Jan 26, 2011
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                              you don't get much tactile feel with the x2 feed, so you may want to use a
                              micro drill chuck which usually has something like a 1/2" shank which you
                              can either chuck into another chuck or better yet, stick in the r8 collet
                              for less runout. these micro chucks let you feed the drill bit using hand
                              pressure, which will give you a better idea of when the bit is running
                              into problems. the other advice is also very helpful. and reduce the drill
                              bit length by using a "screw machine" length, not jobber.

                              these chucks usually cost around $100 or so for a decent brand. brands
                              such as albrecht go for much for. check ebay, that's where we bought ours.
                              we've used it for drilling holes around 0.020" at depths of around 0.250"

                              hope this helps!
                              david

                              --


                              Spindle Lock for your Rong-Fu 45, Lathemaster, Sieg
                              X3<http://www.spindle-lock.com>
                              CNC, Plans/Kits, 8x12 Lathe, Mini-Mill, How-Tos<http://www.fignoggle.com>
                              Sieg X3/Super X3 Mill Information, HF/Enco Coupons<http://www.superx3.com>



                              On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 09:27:42 -0800, clumsysoftballerz
                              <mypersonalemailaccount@...> wrote:

                              > I have been buying my still bits from mcmaster-carr and spending the
                              > extra buck on the long life ruin coating but thinking that helps for
                              > longevity but I don't know if it makes it and harder? now I am thinking
                              > about cobalt bits to prevent this from happening on my prediction
                              > parts.. but $2 vs $13 makes it hard.
                              >
                              > where did that bit come from? HF, Dewalt, random?
                              >
                              > were you using tap fluid?
                              >
                              > I game been lucky so far and have never broken one... probably because
                              > i'm so scared and always use tap fluid and every 2-3 times the drill OD
                              > I pull out and clear. I read somewhere that anything 3x the drill
                              > diameter is considered a deep hole which seems funny since that is what
                              > they are designed to do... but none the less: doing that I have never
                              > broken a bit (except forcing a hand drill of course). I do the same for
                              > tapping and unroll last night had only ever done then by hand.
                              >
                              > I am a little confused at the comment on speed. I am a newbie to
                              > milling and just now trying to un-learn all of my bad habits so I have
                              > been using lms drill and milling calculator and a .0625 'should' be run
                              > at over 22,000 tom. obviously that can't happen, but wouldn't it be best
                              > to have it at the max rpm?
                              >
                              > production
                              > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "Brandon Worrell" <brandon@...>
                              > wrote:
                              >>
                              >> I think I've passed one of the important initiation rituals for a
                              >> machining noob and ruined my first part last night. I was drilling a
                              >> hole with a 1/16" drill bit about 1-1/4 inches deep in aluminum and it
                              >> snapped off. The part was a frame for a small steam engine, and I had
                              >> many, many hours invested in it so far. Ugh. Oh well, I chalk it up to
                              >> a learning experience.
                              >>
                              >> Does anyone have any tips for drilling a relatively deep hole in
                              >> aluminum with a small drill bit? Do I need to be more careful about
                              >> taking it slow and "pecking" at it? Is high or low RPM recommended for
                              >> this kind of operation? I assume plenty of cutting fluid is in order.
                              >> Any other thoughts or advice out there?
                              >>
                              >> Thanks,
                              >> Brandon
                              >>
                              >
                            • david@fignoggle.com
                              here s a link: On Wed, 26 Jan 2011
                              Message 14 of 24 , Jan 26, 2011
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                                here's a link:
                                <http://www1.mscdirect.com/Micro-Drill-Chucks-&-Adapters/Drill-Chucks-&-Adapters/Machine-Tool-Accessories/s0000001043.HTML>



                                On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 18:27:20 -0800, david@...
                                <david@...> wrote:

                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > you don't get much tactile feel with the x2 feed, so you may want to use
                                > a
                                > micro drill chuck which usually has something like a 1/2" shank which you
                                > can either chuck into another chuck or better yet, stick in the r8 collet
                                > for less runout. these micro chucks let you feed the drill bit using hand
                                > pressure, which will give you a better idea of when the bit is running
                                > into problems. the other advice is also very helpful. and reduce the
                                > drill
                                > bit length by using a "screw machine" length, not jobber.
                                >
                                > these chucks usually cost around $100 or so for a decent brand. brands
                                > such as albrecht go for much for. check ebay, that's where we bought
                                > ours.
                                > we've used it for drilling holes around 0.020" at depths of around 0.250"
                                >
                                > hope this helps!
                                > david
                                >


                                --


                                Spindle Lock for your Rong-Fu 45, Lathemaster, Sieg
                                X3<http://www.spindle-lock.com>
                                CNC, Plans/Kits, 8x12 Lathe, Mini-Mill, How-Tos<http://www.fignoggle.com>
                                Sieg X3/Super X3 Mill Information, HF/Enco Coupons<http://www.superx3.com>
                              • ckinzer@att.net
                                You could also buy a handful of some smaller drills for practice. Just try drilling some holes in some scrap material until you see what you can reliably do.
                                Message 15 of 24 , Jan 27, 2011
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                                  You could also buy a handful of some smaller drills for practice.  Just try drilling some holes in some scrap material until you see what you can reliably do.  You will probably break a few drills, but so what.  Then, if you can't get good results, you may need to got the special chuck approach mentinoed or get a sensitive drill press.
                                   
                                  Another approach is to use a motor tool in the little rinky drill drill press option available for some.  Dremel and Proxxon both offer that.  And you will certainly have plenty of speed.    (I still have my old Dremel drill press from 40 some years ago of a style they no longer make - the table moves up and down by turning a big knob and the motor tool stays stationary - which is a very good arrangement.)
                                   
                                  Chuck K.
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: david@...
                                  Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 6:27 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: So... I officially ruined my first part




                                  you don't get much tactile feel with the x2 feed, so you may want to use a 
                                  micro drill chuck which usually has something like a 1/2" shank which you 
                                  can either chuck into another chuck or better yet, stick in the r8 collet 
                                  for less runout. these micro chucks let you feed the drill bit using hand 
                                  pressure, which will give you a better idea of when the bit is running 
                                  into problems. the other advice is also very helpful. and reduce the drill 
                                  bit length by using a "screw machine" length, not jobber.

                                  these chucks usually cost around $100 or so for a decent brand. brands 
                                  such as albrecht go for much for. check ebay, that's where we bought ours. 
                                  we've used it for drilling holes around 0.020" at depths of around 0.250"

                                  hope this helps!
                                  david

                                  --


                                  Spindle Lock for your Rong-Fu 45, Lathemaster, Sieg 
                                  X3<http://www.spindle-lock.com>
                                  CNC, Plans/Kits, 8x12 Lathe, Mini-Mill, How-Tos<http://www.fignoggle.com>
                                  Sieg X3/Super X3 Mill Information, HF/Enco Coupons<http://www.superx3.com>



                                  On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 09:27:42 -0800, clumsysoftballerz 
                                  <mypersonalemailaccount@...> wrote:

                                  > I have been buying my still bits from mcmaster-carr and spending the 
                                  > extra buck on the long life ruin coating but thinking that  helps for 
                                  > longevity but I don't know if it makes it and harder?  now I am thinking 
                                  > about cobalt bits to prevent this from happening on my prediction 
                                  > parts..  but $2 vs $13 makes it hard.
                                  >
                                  > where did that bit come from? HF, Dewalt, random?
                                  >
                                  > were you using tap fluid?
                                  >
                                  > I game been lucky so far and have never broken one... probably because 
                                  > i'm so scared and always use tap fluid and every 2-3 times the drill OD 
                                  > I pull out and clear. I read somewhere that anything 3x the drill 
                                  > diameter is considered a deep hole which seems funny since that is what 
                                  > they are designed to do... but none the less: doing that I have never 
                                  > broken a bit (except forcing a hand drill of course). I do the same for 
                                  > tapping and unroll last night had only ever done then by hand.
                                  >
                                  >   I am a little confused at the comment on speed. I am a newbie to 
                                  > milling and just now trying to un-learn all of my bad habits so I have 
                                  > been using lms drill and milling calculator and a .0625 'should' be run 
                                  > at over 22,000 tom. obviously that can't happen, but wouldn't it be best 
                                  > to have it at the max rpm?
                                  >
                                  > production
                                  > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "Brandon Worrell" <brandon@...> 
                                  > wrote:
                                  >>
                                  >> I think I've passed one of the important initiation rituals for a 
                                  >> machining noob and ruined my first part last night. I was drilling a 
                                  >> hole with a 1/16" drill bit about 1-1/4 inches deep in aluminum and it 
                                  >> snapped off. The part was a frame for a small steam engine, and I had 
                                  >> many, many hours invested in it so far. Ugh. Oh well, I chalk it up to 
                                  >> a learning experience.
                                  >>
                                  >> Does anyone have any tips for drilling a relatively deep hole in 
                                  >> aluminum with a small drill bit? Do I need to be more careful about 
                                  >> taking it slow and "pecking" at it? Is high or low RPM recommended for 
                                  >> this kind of operation? I assume plenty of cutting fluid is in order. 
                                  >> Any other thoughts or advice out there?
                                  >>
                                  >> Thanks,
                                  >> Brandon
                                  >>
                                  >


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                                • Arved
                                  At those kind of prices I d be temped to look at adapting the Dremel 4486 MultiPro Keyless Chuck:
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Jan 27, 2011
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                                    At those kind of prices I'd be temped to look at adapting the Dremel 4486 MultiPro Keyless Chuck:

                                    http://www.amazon.com/Dremel-4486-MultiPro-Keyless-Chuck/dp/B0000302ZV

                                    It's designed to go onto their motor tool, but IIRC, it just spins on a threaded shaft. You ought to be able to substitute a bolt for the motor tool's shaft, and chuck that. Preferably with a collet in your mill.

                                    Most of the micro dills I use have 1/8" shafts:

                                    http://drillbitcity.com/sharpened_bit_specs/index.htm

                                    These can all just be chucked in a 1/8" collet. I find them to be superior to jobber bits. Not going to help the OP who's trying to drill 1+" deep, other than, perhaps, as a starting drill.

                                    All the best,
                                    - Arved


                                    --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "david@..." <david@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > here's a link:
                                    > <http://www1.mscdirect.com/Micro-Drill-Chucks-&-Adapters/Drill-Chucks-&-Adapters/Machine-Tool-Accessories/s0000001043.HTML>
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 18:27:20 -0800, david@...
                                    > <david@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > you don't get much tactile feel with the x2 feed, so you may want to use
                                    > > a
                                    > > micro drill chuck which usually has something like a 1/2" shank which you
                                    > > can either chuck into another chuck or better yet, stick in the r8 collet
                                    > > for less runout. these micro chucks let you feed the drill bit using hand
                                    > > pressure, which will give you a better idea of when the bit is running
                                    > > into problems. the other advice is also very helpful. and reduce the
                                    > > drill
                                    > > bit length by using a "screw machine" length, not jobber.
                                    > >
                                    > > these chucks usually cost around $100 or so for a decent brand. brands
                                    > > such as albrecht go for much for. check ebay, that's where we bought
                                    > > ours.
                                    > > we've used it for drilling holes around 0.020" at depths of around 0.250"
                                    > >
                                    > > hope this helps!
                                    > > david
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Spindle Lock for your Rong-Fu 45, Lathemaster, Sieg
                                    > X3<http://www.spindle-lock.com>
                                    > CNC, Plans/Kits, 8x12 Lathe, Mini-Mill, How-Tos<http://www.fignoggle.com>
                                    > Sieg X3/Super X3 Mill Information, HF/Enco Coupons<http://www.superx3.com>
                                    >
                                  • trainliker
                                    This kind of chuck doesn t solve the problem of not being able to feel what is going on. It is just a small, but still rigid, chuck. It won t help with
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Jan 27, 2011
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                                      This kind of chuck doesn't solve the problem of not being able to "feel" what is going on. It is just a small, but still rigid, chuck. It won't help with drill breakage.

                                      Something that allows finger tip movement and feel (short of buying a "sensitive drill press") is what is really best.

                                      Here is a Wholesale Tool page that shows two part numbers, one for $29.00 and one for $85.75.

                                      http://www.wttool.com/index/page/category/category_id/14194/?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=SiteChampion

                                      Before anybody gets excited at that $29.00 number, it is for just the fixture with no chuck. The other includes a "0 Jacobs chuck".

                                      But if somebody already has a chuck that would work, you can just buy the fixture.

                                      Now, I wonder what it would take to just make your own fixture?

                                      Chuck K.

                                      --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "Arved" <arved_grass@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > At those kind of prices I'd be temped to look at adapting the Dremel 4486 MultiPro Keyless Chuck:
                                      >
                                      > http://www.amazon.com/Dremel-4486-MultiPro-Keyless-Chuck/dp/B0000302ZV
                                      >
                                      > It's designed to go onto their motor tool, but IIRC, it just spins on a threaded shaft. You ought to be able to substitute a bolt for the motor tool's shaft, and chuck that. Preferably with a collet in your mill.
                                      >
                                      > Most of the micro dills I use have 1/8" shafts:
                                      >
                                      > http://drillbitcity.com/sharpened_bit_specs/index.htm
                                      >
                                      > These can all just be chucked in a 1/8" collet. I find them to be superior to jobber bits. Not going to help the OP who's trying to drill 1+" deep, other than, perhaps, as a starting drill.
                                      >
                                      > All the best,
                                      > - Arved
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "david@" <david@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > here's a link:
                                      > > <http://www1.mscdirect.com/Micro-Drill-Chucks-&-Adapters/Drill-Chucks-&-Adapters/Machine-Tool-Accessories/s0000001043.HTML>
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 18:27:20 -0800, david@
                                      > > <david@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > you don't get much tactile feel with the x2 feed, so you may want to use
                                      > > > a
                                      > > > micro drill chuck which usually has something like a 1/2" shank which you
                                      > > > can either chuck into another chuck or better yet, stick in the r8 collet
                                      > > > for less runout. these micro chucks let you feed the drill bit using hand
                                      > > > pressure, which will give you a better idea of when the bit is running
                                      > > > into problems. the other advice is also very helpful. and reduce the
                                      > > > drill
                                      > > > bit length by using a "screw machine" length, not jobber.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > these chucks usually cost around $100 or so for a decent brand. brands
                                      > > > such as albrecht go for much for. check ebay, that's where we bought
                                      > > > ours.
                                      > > > we've used it for drilling holes around 0.020" at depths of around 0.250"
                                      > > >
                                      > > > hope this helps!
                                      > > > david
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > --
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Spindle Lock for your Rong-Fu 45, Lathemaster, Sieg
                                      > > X3<http://www.spindle-lock.com>
                                      > > CNC, Plans/Kits, 8x12 Lathe, Mini-Mill, How-Tos<http://www.fignoggle.com>
                                      > > Sieg X3/Super X3 Mill Information, HF/Enco Coupons<http://www.superx3.com>
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • Brandon Worrell
                                      First off, thanks to everyone for the replies. @clumsysoftballerz, the bit came from HF - an import set, so who knows what kind of quality it is. I was using
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Jan 27, 2011
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                                        First off, thanks to everyone for the replies.

                                        @clumsysoftballerz, the bit came from HF - an import set, so who knows what kind of quality it is. I was using tap fluid, but I was probably not using enough, being too aggressive and probably not running at high enough RPM.

                                        I like the idea of a micro drill chuck, but I probably won't make the investment unless I take no another project with a lot of small, deep holes like this. Is there any problem in this hobby that isn't solved by buying another $100 tool?

                                        As an update, I've taken a two-pronged approach to the issue:

                                        Prong one: I got some alum from the store and I currently have the part soaking in the recommended alum/water solution. I can't be there to keep it simmering for 10-12 hours as I've read some people do. Maybe this weekend I can do something like that. I'm also a bit worried that the drill bit is buried deep in a 1/16" hole so the surface area exposed is small. Hopefully it will work, but it might take some time.

                                        Prong two: I'm too impatient to wait for the alum experiment to unfold, so I remade the part, bought some new 1/16" drill bits and was able to successfully drill the hole. I followed the advice given in the replies to do it high RPM, with lots of cutting oil, pecking at it (I probably only drilled 1/8" at a time) and clearing the chips with each peck. It was slow and tedious, but it worked fine. My third hand came in, well, handy.

                                        If the alum experiment works out, I'll have two parts and maybe I'll make two of these little steam engines. That wouldn't be a crime. If anyone's interested, I'm doing the Elmer's Engines Standby (http://www.john-tom.com/ElmersEngines/19_standby.pdf).

                                        Brandon
                                      • Gregory
                                        Brandon It was almost exactly a year ago when I broke a 6-32 tap in a .5 inch aluminum plate. It works perfectly, just takes a rather long time. If I recall,
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Jan 28, 2011
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                                          Brandon

                                          It was almost exactly a year ago when I broke a 6-32 tap in a .5 inch aluminum plate. It works perfectly, just takes a rather long time. If I recall, it took around 20 hours of simmering on the kitchen stove, broken into two separate sessions.

                                          For me, the hardest part of the task was finding alum. I understand it is used in home canning, soI tried several normal and special grocery stores, and a farm supply store, all with no luck.

                                          I finally got it from my drug store, but it was expensive pharmaceutical grade (USP), about $18. I wonder where you got your alum?
                                          Greg (in San Diego)


                                          --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "Brandon Worrell" <brandon@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > First off, thanks to everyone for the replies.
                                          >
                                          > @clumsysoftballerz, the bit came from HF - an import set, so who knows what kind of quality it is. I was using tap fluid, but I was probably not using enough, being too aggressive and probably not running at high enough RPM.
                                          >
                                          > I like the idea of a micro drill chuck, but I probably won't make the investment unless I take no another project with a lot of small, deep holes like this. Is there any problem in this hobby that isn't solved by buying another $100 tool?
                                          >
                                          > As an update, I've taken a two-pronged approach to the issue:
                                          >
                                          > Prong one: I got some alum from the store and I currently have the part soaking in the recommended alum/water solution. I can't be there to keep it simmering for 10-12 hours as I've read some people do. Maybe this weekend I can do something like that. I'm also a bit worried that the drill bit is buried deep in a 1/16" hole so the surface area exposed is small. Hopefully it will work, but it might take some time.
                                          >
                                          > Prong two: I'm too impatient to wait for the alum experiment to unfold, so I remade the part, bought some new 1/16" drill bits and was able to successfully drill the hole. I followed the advice given in the replies to do it high RPM, with lots of cutting oil, pecking at it (I probably only drilled 1/8" at a time) and clearing the chips with each peck. It was slow and tedious, but it worked fine. My third hand came in, well, handy.
                                          >
                                          > If the alum experiment works out, I'll have two parts and maybe I'll make two of these little steam engines. That wouldn't be a crime. If anyone's interested, I'm doing the Elmer's Engines Standby (http://www.john-tom.com/ElmersEngines/19_standby.pdf).
                                          >
                                          > Brandon
                                          >
                                        • Arved
                                          For those who can t find Alum locally, try Amazon . - Arved
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Jan 28, 2011
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                                            For those who can't find Alum locally, try Amazon.

                                             

                                            - Arved

                                          • Jim E.
                                            Greg: I got mine at the local Ralph s. Canning stuff is mixed in with seasonings, but you gotta hunt. Graciously, Jim E. Lakewood, Calif. All Hail Rube
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Jan 28, 2011
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                                              Greg:
                                              I got mine at the local Ralph's. Canning stuff is mixed in with
                                              seasonings, but you gotta hunt.

                                              Graciously,
                                              Jim E.
                                              Lakewood, Calif.
                                              All Hail Rube Goldberg!


                                              Gregory wrote:
                                              > Brandon
                                              >
                                              > It was almost exactly a year ago when I broke a 6-32 tap in a .5 inch aluminum plate. It works perfectly, just takes a rather long time. If I recall, it took around 20 hours of simmering on the kitchen stove, broken into two separate sessions.
                                              >
                                              > For me, the hardest part of the task was finding alum. I understand it is used in home canning, soI tried several normal and special grocery stores, and a farm supply store, all with no luck.
                                              >
                                              > I finally got it from my drug store, but it was expensive pharmaceutical grade (USP), about $18. I wonder where you got your alum?
                                              > Greg (in San Diego)
                                            • oldstudentmsgt
                                              Brandon, Alum is used in canning & pickleing, so it s frequently a seasonal supply, and is kept with the canning jars and such. You will likely find the blocks
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Jan 29, 2011
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                                                Brandon, Alum is used in canning & pickleing, so it's frequently a seasonal supply, and is kept with the canning jars and such. You will likely find the blocks of parafin wax (also used in canning) in the same area. Fall is generally canning season, if that helps.

                                                Bill in OKC

                                                --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory" <monty621@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Brandon
                                                >
                                                > It was almost exactly a year ago when I broke a 6-32 tap in a .5 inch aluminum plate. It works perfectly, just takes a rather long time. If I recall, it took around 20 hours of simmering on the kitchen stove, broken into two separate sessions.
                                                >
                                                > For me, the hardest part of the task was finding alum. I understand it is used in home canning, soI tried several normal and special grocery stores, and a farm supply store, all with no luck.
                                                >
                                                > I finally got it from my drug store, but it was expensive pharmaceutical grade (USP), about $18. I wonder where you got your alum?
                                                > Greg (in San Diego)
                                                SNIP!
                                              • johann_ohnesorg
                                                If the part is all aluminum and only the tap is steel you could use nitric acid to etch it out. Nitric acid has a pretty agressive etching action on steel but
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Jan 29, 2011
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                                                  If the part is all aluminum and only the tap is steel you could use nitric acid to etch it out. Nitric acid has a pretty agressive etching action on steel but can´t get a bite on aluminum. Watch your eyes, cloth and feet when handling this stuff, it´s pretty nasty.

                                                  Cheers,
                                                  Johann
                                                • Brandon Worrell
                                                  Greg, I found some Alum (er, I should say my wife found it for me) at the local supermarket. It was in the baking aisle and packaged in what looked like a
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , Feb 1, 2011
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                                                    Greg,
                                                    I found some Alum (er, I should say my wife found it for me) at the local supermarket. It was in the baking aisle and packaged in what looked like a small plastic package for spices. I have not had much luck, but I have not been able to actively simmer it for 20+ hours. That seems to be essential.
                                                    Brandon

                                                    --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory" <monty621@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > Brandon
                                                    >
                                                    > It was almost exactly a year ago when I broke a 6-32 tap in a .5 inch aluminum plate. It works perfectly, just takes a rather long time. If I recall, it took around 20 hours of simmering on the kitchen stove, broken into two separate sessions.
                                                    >
                                                    > For me, the hardest part of the task was finding alum. I understand it is used in home canning, soI tried several normal and special grocery stores, and a farm supply store, all with no luck.
                                                    >
                                                    > I finally got it from my drug store, but it was expensive pharmaceutical grade (USP), about $18. I wonder where you got your alum?
                                                    > Greg (in San Diego)
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "Brandon Worrell" <brandon@> wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > First off, thanks to everyone for the replies.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > @clumsysoftballerz, the bit came from HF - an import set, so who knows what kind of quality it is. I was using tap fluid, but I was probably not using enough, being too aggressive and probably not running at high enough RPM.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > I like the idea of a micro drill chuck, but I probably won't make the investment unless I take no another project with a lot of small, deep holes like this. Is there any problem in this hobby that isn't solved by buying another $100 tool?
                                                    > >
                                                    > > As an update, I've taken a two-pronged approach to the issue:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Prong one: I got some alum from the store and I currently have the part soaking in the recommended alum/water solution. I can't be there to keep it simmering for 10-12 hours as I've read some people do. Maybe this weekend I can do something like that. I'm also a bit worried that the drill bit is buried deep in a 1/16" hole so the surface area exposed is small. Hopefully it will work, but it might take some time.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Prong two: I'm too impatient to wait for the alum experiment to unfold, so I remade the part, bought some new 1/16" drill bits and was able to successfully drill the hole. I followed the advice given in the replies to do it high RPM, with lots of cutting oil, pecking at it (I probably only drilled 1/8" at a time) and clearing the chips with each peck. It was slow and tedious, but it worked fine. My third hand came in, well, handy.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > If the alum experiment works out, I'll have two parts and maybe I'll make two of these little steam engines. That wouldn't be a crime. If anyone's interested, I'm doing the Elmer's Engines Standby (http://www.john-tom.com/ElmersEngines/19_standby.pdf).
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Brandon
                                                    > >
                                                    >
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