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Re: Speed Contoller...... HEEEEELP !!

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  • Rich Schmidt
    Hello Randy, I searched all of the major electronics supply houses in the U.S and could not locate a good quality composition pot (like to old AB pots) that
    Message 1 of 26 , Mar 31, 2009
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      Hello Randy,
      I searched all of the major electronics supply houses in the U.S and could not locate a good quality composition pot (like to old AB pots) that had the correct switch. The problem is finding the switch that is closed when CCW. Most pots have the opposite switch configuration.

      The Mouser part number that I sent has a SPDT switch so it can be used on some mills that use the switch with closed contacts as the pot is rotated CW. (I bought 4 of them to have some spares).

      I was able to clean up the original pot with a shot of control cleaner and some compressed air. THe problem with these pots is that they are open frame and can let debris get in there.

      If anyone can find a high quality (sealed) pot with the proper switch please let all of us know.
      Cheers,
      Rich Schmidt

      --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, Randy Smith <randyrls@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > This is a common problem with the mini-lathes as well. I wasn't sure if
      > this mill has the same ODD kind of pot / switch combo ie: the Switch
      > makes contact when at zero speed, and opens when speed is increased.
      > I believe you can find more info about the pot on the "7x12minilathe"
      > group. Search the message archives. Some argue that a better quality
      > pot and switch is needed. I believe that Digi-key has replacements.
      >
      >
      > Former ETN (Navy)
      >
      > Later.... Randy S
      > mailto:randyrls@...
      > Practice random kindness and commit senseless acts of beauty.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Rich Schmidt wrote:
      > > Hello Elv, You can also find a replacement pot at Mouser Electronics.
      > > <http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=RV24A02F-10-15S1-
      > > B53virtualkey14860000virtualkey315-2415F-5K>
      > >
      > > On the X2 Mill the switch is wired so that when the pot is in the
      > > counterclockwise position (lowest speed setting) the switch contacts
      > > are closed. When you rotate the pot clockwise (increase the speed)
      > > the contacts open. The pot is not difficult to replace but you do
      > > need some basic electrical and soldering skills. Just make sure that
      > > you have unplugged the power before opening up the control box and
      > > take it slow. Be safe.
      > >
      >
    • astroboy2b
      Hi Elv glad to have been able help some one from so far away.I gather you are in Austrailia I m in Canada we couldn t be much farther apart. Back to business
      Message 2 of 26 , Apr 1 5:27 AM
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        Hi Elv glad to have been able help some one from so far away.I gather you are in Austrailia I'm in Canada we couldn't be much farther apart. Back to business most of these pots have two seperate sections the wiper section (the actual variable resister) and the switch section. The switch part is usually sealed (sort of) and difficult to clean with out taking it apart. Regardless of wether its tabs or rivets or both its easy to fix. In the case where you totally screw it up its still no big deal. Just replace the old pot with a 4.7 OHM non switched pot and jumper the circuit board as per the instructions on the Little Machine Shop help files. It just means that you wont have the added safety of being forced to return the speed control to zero. If you are in the habbit of doing this any way the the switch isn't really necessary. Mine has been running flawless for a year now. Good luck.

        Tom
        --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "elv0000" <elv000@...> wrote:
        >
        > Thanks Tom, yep I definatley need to clean it out as the miss starts have started to kreep back in already. I'll still try and get another one first though as it could avoid a lot of down time again if i mess it up. Theres tabs folded over the front and what look more like pins at the back (no head to file off they're flush with the case) unless you mean the rivet heads are under the pot section when you bend the tabs out and remove the dial section off the front?
        >
        > Yeah the thing that was doing my head in is that no else seem to have had this problem and I got two in a row. I spoke to the Technition for the store over the phone a number of times (contractor) and he said he had never had any issue with the X2 and they sell a lot of them, but some of the other mills have really poor electricals in comparison to these.
        >
        > Regds
        > Elv
        >
        > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "astroboy2b" <twaring@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi Elv, I'm just waking up this morning and catching up, If I speed read the posts it sounds like you have your machine running thats great. There is not much to taking the pot switch apart just two rivets you just file the ends off and it comes apart. Replace the rivets with aluminum siding nails or tiny screws if you want to take it apart later. I still think you need to get in there. Its the design of the switch which is the problem its a small brass rocker on a copper coated post if there is any dirt or black deposits it makes a bad contact. This is also why I don't think checking it with an ohm really tells you any thing your just reading the resistance through the crud. Its such a simple problem yet I wonder how many of us have suffered through it or worse spent hundreds of dollars fixing it.
        > >
        > > Tom
        > > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "elv0000" <elv000@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Thanks all, still starting first time but maybe I have more gremlins again though.
        > > >
        > > > Ive likely started it atleast 50 times this afternoon just in normal use with no problems... But twice while cutting its decided to change speeds by itself.. slow down speed up slow down again. Thats what it finaly started doing before I replaced everything the first time but then it was clearly cutting in and out in the proces. It was just changing speeds this time. That was only twice though a few hours ago.
        > > >
        > > > Maybe this is still just the pot? but could the switch part still be the same issue (as in could bridging it help eliminate that too).
        > > >
        > > > Anyway will haver to try a new pot and see how it goes in the mean time. (its a luxury machine now compared to what it was :)
        > > >
        > > > Thanks again
        > > > Regds
        > > > Elv
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "lhbakeland" <digitaltorque@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > If you review the entire set of diagrams on these controller boars, you will notice that jumpering terminals 5 and 7 will NOT damage the board.
        > > > >
        > > > > This is noted in the upgrade to the HF mini lathe with the lighted red switch and without the "return to zero" system.
        > > > >
        > > > > I had one of these older HF mini lathes for close to 7 years and eventually sold it about 8 months, ago. I never had a problem with it. It might be more of a safety system than a protection system.
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Leo
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, Rexarino <rexarino@> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > The circuit senses a low resistance between the center wire and one end of
        > > > > > the potentiometer to reset the start circuit. IT SHOULD NOT BE PERMANENTLY
        > > > > > "JUMPERED"!!! THIS IS A TEMPORARY RESET - IT NEEDS A PUSHBUTTON SWITCH - DO
        > > > > > NOT USE A TOGGLE SWITCH!! sorry for shouting...
        > > > > >
        > > > > > There is NO guarantee that you won't fry something by doing this, so proceed
        > > > > > at your own risk, and don't ask me to repair the board if you let the magic
        > > > > > smoke out. Note that YOU may be the item that gets fried, so be warned.
        > > > > > The pot turns in one direction (toward low speed) to connect the center
        > > > > > wiper to the end connection in that direction - therefore, you need to
        > > > > > TEMPORARILY jumper (quick punch of a push button switch) the center pot wire
        > > > > > to the one on the end it rotates toward for low speed. If you normally turn
        > > > > > it clockwise for low speed start, it will be the connection immediately
        > > > > > clockwise of center from the front BUT counterclockwise of the center when
        > > > > > viewed from the back... Remember, DON'T touch wires with your bare hands,
        > > > > > DON'T randomly touch wires with the jumper, and DO NOT leave the jumper
        > > > > > connected for more than a moment. OH, DO NOT try to solder wires to the
        > > > > > pot while it's plugged in. DON'T even take it apart to look at it while
        > > > > > it's plugged in - use your brain!!
        > > > > >
        > > > > > If any of my warnings made you more than mildly nervous, or you have a
        > > > > > deathly fear of electrical shock, or you have ruined someones
        > > > > > video/stereo/tv/ipod/flashlight while trying to fix it, don't do this!!!
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Rex
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 4:37 PM, elv0000 <elv000@> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > > Thanks Leo, from what I can gather from Little Machine Shop they appear to
        > > > > > > sell the Mini Mill board as an upgrade/replacement for the lathe so I assume
        > > > > > > they would be slightly different, though I don't know in what way.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > But should that jumper be the same on most boards? Could I just jump the
        > > > > > > contacts on the back of the potentiometer? If so any idea which ones they
        > > > > > > would be.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Thanks again
        > > > > > > Regds
        > > > > > > Elv
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "lhbakeland" <digitaltorque@>
        > > > > > > wrote:
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > The controller is based on the same unit that is on the mini lathe. The
        > > > > > > switch prevents the mill from being started without the speed reduced to
        > > > > > > near or at zero.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > It would be easy to place a wire jumper between connections 5 and 7 on
        > > > > > > the board to eliminate this feature.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > The early mini lathes did not have this "return to zero" feature.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Leo
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "astroboy2b" <twaring@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > I tried replying earlier but it does not seem to have posted. 2nd try
        > > > > > > > > I had a similar problem with my Mill it was intermittant then it just
        > > > > > > would not turn on at all. I traced the problem to the on off switch in the
        > > > > > > variable speed control. In order for the motor to turn on the speed control
        > > > > > > must be fully CCW, in this position the switch is actually in the on
        > > > > > > position which is opposite to most integral on off volume controls. I took
        > > > > > > the switch apart and cleaned up the little brass spring loaded rocker that
        > > > > > > makes and breaks the circuit. There may be a by-pass to defeat this switch
        > > > > > > you could try this either temporarially of permantently to isolate the
        > > > > > > problem. Just rember the switch works in reverse to what you may think at
        > > > > > > first I though I was jumping the switch but I really needed to disconect the
        > > > > > > switch to enable the motor circuit. It worked for me.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Tom
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "elv0000" <elv000@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > Yep, I'm in Australia, but happy to buy form overseas if needed. I
        > > > > > > got the belt drive from Little Machine Shop but they don't appear to have
        > > > > > > anything but the stock board (which would be a bout $300 by the time it got
        > > > > > > here so its a big gamble if its just more of the same?)
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > Regds
        > > > > > > > > > Elv
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "lhbakeland" <digitaltorque@>
        > > > > > > wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > Are you in Australia?
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "elv0000" <elv000@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > What are my options for another speed controller? My mill (Seige
        > > > > > > X2)now never starts the first time (more like the 10th or 20th attmept now)
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > When I first got it was playing up from the start so after a
        > > > > > > couple of weeks I sent back all the electrics (motor and both boxes) and
        > > > > > > they sent back a replacement off another new mill. That worked great for a
        > > > > > > week (and made me realise how bad the original was, apart from not starting
        > > > > > > it was virtualy cutting out evey time you moved the speed dial a little but
        > > > > > > I didn't now that wasn't normal) but then I started to get the intermittent
        > > > > > > non starts again with the new electics. Ive persisted with it for about 4
        > > > > > > weeks, until today its a major test of my patience (and sanity) getting it
        > > > > > > started at all.
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > So what other options are there, I can't see any point buying the
        > > > > > > stock speed control board again if they are going to keep having these
        > > > > > > problems. I have the 240/220V version for Australia which is probably a
        > > > > > > little different than the 110v most of you guys have, it doesn't have any
        > > > > > > fan in there (plays up when dead cold too though).
        > > > > > > > > > > > I saw the treadmill controller posted earlier but I don't know if
        > > > > > > thats compatible or how much is involved in the conversion. I'm not big on
        > > > > > > electicals so preferable another board I can just connect straight in to
        > > > > > > replace the old one?
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > I think I read somewhere of an aftermarket board possibly on
        > > > > > > CNCZone.com, or there was a guy that tunes them, can you buy one pre
        > > > > > > "tuned"?
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > Btw this couldn't have anything to do with the belt drive
        > > > > > > conversion could it? I know it says in the instructions for the belt drive
        > > > > > > it may require slower turning on the speed control in the high gear if it
        > > > > > > doesn't start but I'm only ever using the low speed pulleys.
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks
        > > > > > > > > > > > Regds
        > > > > > > > > > > > Elv
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • Randy Smith
        Rich; Someone in the 7x12minilathe group suggested Jaycar in OZ land. In the US check Digikey. Download their catalog. It will take a long time as it runs
        Message 3 of 26 , Apr 1 6:55 AM
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          Rich; Someone in the 7x12minilathe group suggested Jaycar in OZ land.

          In the US check Digikey. Download their catalog. It will take a long
          time as it runs 2500 (EGAD!) pages. I scanned the catalog and found
          several pots that would work but none with a SPDT switch.

          Many moons ago, "modular" pots were produced that you could customize
          with single or multiple gangs and with or without a switch.

          My only suggestion is if you live near or in a large populated area,
          contact one of the local electronic repair shops and find out where they
          get parts. Most distributors will sell direct to public for cash.

          Radio Shack is useless for most things.

          Of course, Little Machine Shop sells the exact replacement and will ship
          Internationally.

          Later.... Randy S
          mailto:randyrls@...
          Practice random kindness and commit senseless acts of beauty.






          Rich Schmidt wrote:
          > Hello Randy, I searched all of the major electronics supply houses in
          > the U.S and could not locate a good quality composition pot (like to
          > old AB pots) that had the correct switch. The problem is finding the
          > switch that is closed when CCW. Most pots have the opposite switch
          > configuration.
          >
        • Rich Schmidt
          Hello Randy, I also found lots of 5K pots (even some nice sealed units) without a SPDT switch but that is not what I wanted - the safety interlock is a very
          Message 4 of 26 , Apr 3 8:08 PM
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            Hello Randy,
            I also found lots of 5K pots (even some nice sealed units) without a SPDT switch but that is not what I wanted - the safety interlock is a very important feautre to me as a metal working and CNC novice. I did find some suppliers that did have what I wanted but I would have had to order a VERY large quantity.
            Cheers,
            Rich Schmidt

            --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, Randy Smith <randyrls@...> wrote:
            >
            > Rich; Someone in the 7x12minilathe group suggested Jaycar in OZ land.
            >
            > In the US check Digikey. Download their catalog. It will take a long
            > time as it runs 2500 (EGAD!) pages. I scanned the catalog and found
            > several pots that would work but none with a SPDT switch.
            >
            > Many moons ago, "modular" pots were produced that you could customize
            > with single or multiple gangs and with or without a switch.
            >
            > My only suggestion is if you live near or in a large populated area,
            > contact one of the local electronic repair shops and find out where they
            > get parts. Most distributors will sell direct to public for cash.
            >
            > Radio Shack is useless for most things.
            >
            > Of course, Little Machine Shop sells the exact replacement and will ship
            > Internationally.
            >
            > Later.... Randy S
            > mailto:randyrls@...
            > Practice random kindness and commit senseless acts of beauty.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Rich Schmidt wrote:
            > > Hello Randy, I searched all of the major electronics supply houses in
            > > the U.S and could not locate a good quality composition pot (like to
            > > old AB pots) that had the correct switch. The problem is finding the
            > > switch that is closed when CCW. Most pots have the opposite switch
            > > configuration.
            > >
            >
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