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Re: [GrizHFMinimill] Solid Edge 2D Drafting

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  • Roger Langevin
    Barnes & Noble ... -- Bear Help save American jobs, buy American. The job you save could be your own. Freedom is never more than one generation away from
    Message 1 of 15 , Dec 3, 2008
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      Barnes & Noble

      On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 6:15 PM, onebike2ride <JZ@...> wrote:


      Hi Group..!

      With all the discussion about PDF files and such I thought I'd ask
      about books & resources for the Solid Edge 2D drafting program. Any good
      sources or books I should know about?

      I have *NO* experience with drafting either manually or on the
      computer, and at this point I just went through the program's built in
      tutorial, which was helpful but left me with more questions than what I
      started with (like depicting threaded parts and etc. etc. ad infinitum).

      Since I do not have very much time invested yet, I could even try going
      to a different (hopefully free) drafting program if there are good books
      and such out there to help me along in some good basic detail until I
      get a better understanding of things. I am working under the
      _assumption_ that 2D would be a better start, to later expand into 3D,
      as opposed to just diving into 3D completely from scratch all at once.
      As a hobbiest I just want to be able to lay out my ideas in a reasonably
      professional manner for the time being, with maybe possibly some CNC
      applications later on down the road, but thats *way* down the road, so
      to speak. For now I basically just want to lay out my little engine or
      generator or whatnot gizmo designs on the computer screen, and hopefully
      make and fix most of my simple design mistakes there, instead of after
      wasting time & metal on my little lathe and milling machines. Any
      starting out advice welcome..! :-)

      Thanks,
      John Z.




      --
      Bear

      Help save American jobs, buy American.  The job you save could be your own.

      Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.  Ronald Reagan (1911 - 2004)

      'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.'
      Edmund Burke

      'Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale,  and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled or hanged.' ~ President Abraham Lincoln

      'No arsenal, no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women.'
      -- Ronald Reagan (1911 - 2004)

      Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is like calling a drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
    • Brian Worth
      Hi John, As a drafter of waaaaay too many years, my advice to you would be to jump in with a 3d modelling program. They can almost all be used in 2d if you
      Message 2 of 15 , Dec 3, 2008
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        Hi John,

        As a drafter of waaaaay too many years, my advice to you would be to jump in with a 3d modelling program. They can almost all be used in 2d if you really want, but I have found that people with little or no drafting experience just seem to grasp 3d easier than 2d, it just seems more intuitive somehow. Depending on what you are wanting to achieve in the long run, look at google SketchUp, Alibre, CoCreate etc which are free to use for private use.

        It may be daunting at first, but don't be afraid to play - you won't break anything after all. Most programs come with tutorials and have robust online communities. Once you can grasp the very basics, it will be A for Away...

        Regards, Brian

        --- On Thu, 4/12/08, onebike2ride <JZ@...> wrote:
        From: onebike2ride <JZ@...>
        Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Solid Edge 2D Drafting
        To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Thursday, 4 December, 2008, 3:15 AM


        Hi Group..!

        With all the discussion about PDF files and such I thought I'd ask
        about books & resources for the Solid Edge 2D drafting program. Any good
        sources or books I should know about?

        I have *NO* experience with drafting either manually or on the
        computer, and at this point I just went through the program's built in
        tutorial, which was helpful but left me with more questions than what I
        started with (like depicting threaded parts and etc. etc. ad infinitum).

        Since I do not have very much time invested yet, I could even try going
        to a different (hopefully free) drafting program if there are good books
        and such out there to help me along in some good basic detail until I
        get a better understanding of things. I am working under the
        _assumption_ that 2D would be a better start, to later expand into 3D,
        as opposed to just diving into 3D completely from scratch all at once.
        As a hobbiest I just want to be able to lay out my ideas in a reasonably
        professional manner for the time being, with maybe possibly some CNC
        applications later on down the road, but thats *way* down the road, so
        to speak. For now I basically just want to lay out my little engine or
        generator or whatnot gizmo designs on the computer screen, and hopefully
        make and fix most of my simple design mistakes there, instead of after
        wasting time & metal on my little lathe and milling machines. Any
        starting out advice welcome..! :-)

        Thanks,
        John Z.


      • loud3803
        I use Alibre Design, The express version is very easy to learn, the toutorials are extremely easy to follow. I started with no experience at all and found
        Message 3 of 15 , Dec 4, 2008
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          I use Alibre Design, The express version is very easy to learn, the
          toutorials are extremely easy to follow. I started with no
          experience at all and found Alibre to be very usefull and easy to
          learn. The best part about the express version is that it is free.


          --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, Brian Worth
          <electromodeler@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi John,
          >
          > As a drafter of waaaaay too many years, my advice to you would be
          to jump in with a 3d modelling program. They can almost all be used
          in 2d if you really want, but I have found that people with little
          or no drafting experience just seem to grasp 3d easier than 2d, it
          just seems more intuitive somehow. Depending on what you are wanting
          to achieve in the long run, look at google SketchUp, Alibre,
          CoCreate etc which are free to use for private use.
          >
          > It may be daunting at first, but don't be afraid to play - you
          won't break anything after all. Most programs come with tutorials
          and have robust online communities. Once you can grasp the very
          basics, it will be A for Away...
          >
          > Regards, Brian
          >
          > --- On Thu, 4/12/08, onebike2ride <JZ@...> wrote:
          > From: onebike2ride <JZ@...>
          > Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Solid Edge 2D Drafting
          > To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Thursday, 4 December, 2008, 3:15 AM
          >
          >
          > Hi Group..!
          >
          > With all the discussion about PDF files and such I thought I'd ask
          > about books & resources for the Solid Edge 2D drafting program.
          Any good
          > sources or books I should know about?
          >
          > I have *NO* experience with drafting either manually or on the
          > computer, and at this point I just went through the program's
          built in
          > tutorial, which was helpful but left me with more questions than
          what I
          > started with (like depicting threaded parts and etc. etc. ad
          infinitum).
          >
          > Since I do not have very much time invested yet, I could even try
          going
          > to a different (hopefully free) drafting program if there are
          good books
          > and such out there to help me along in some good basic detail
          until I
          > get a better understanding of things. I am working under the
          > _assumption_ that 2D would be a better start, to later expand
          into 3D,
          > as opposed to just diving into 3D completely from scratch all at
          once.
          > As a hobbiest I just want to be able to lay out my ideas in a
          reasonably
          > professional manner for the time being, with maybe possibly some
          CNC
          > applications later on down the road, but thats *way* down the
          road, so
          > to speak. For now I basically just want to lay out my little
          engine or
          > generator or whatnot gizmo designs on the computer screen, and
          hopefully
          > make and fix most of my simple design mistakes there, instead of
          after
          > wasting time & metal on my little lathe and milling machines. Any
          > starting out advice welcome..! :-)
          >
          > Thanks,
          > John Z.
          >
        • onebike2ride
          ... I d originally downloaded and installed (some of) a number of CAD programs early this year, but shortly after that I had the hard drive suddenly decide to
          Message 4 of 15 , Dec 4, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "loud3803" <loud3803@...> wrote:
            >
            > I use Alibre Design, The express version is very easy to learn, the
            > toutorials are extremely easy to follow. I started with no
            > experience at all and found Alibre to be very usefull and easy to
            > learn. The best part about the express version is that it is free.

            I'd originally downloaded and installed (some of) a number of CAD
            programs early this year, but shortly after that I had the hard drive
            suddenly decide to retire and so had to replace it, losing a lot of
            stuff like this in the process. I installed Alibre again yesterday and
            found I had to "convert" it to the crippled free version - I'd long ago
            lost my 30 days full functionality test drive time, and of course never
            got to use it with all the functions available. Ah well.

            I spent a little time today just getting started looking things over,
            and can see I'm going to need to find an "Alibre Design For Dummies"
            type of book. These CAD programs are not like the "Geico - so easy a
            caveman can do it" insurance commercials at all. I feel like I should
            have large prominant eyebrows below a low sloping forehead on my rather
            thick skull when I dive into this CAD stuff from scratch like this. :-)

            Alibre's "Standard" at $999 or Alibre "Professional" at $1499 seems
            like a kind of large punishment waiting for me if/when I become
            proficient enough with things to actually need the features that are
            crippled out on the free Express version. For comparison, I paid
            ~$400-ish for my HF 44991 mini-mill by combining a sale price with a %15
            off coupon, and $460 including shipping for my Cummins 7x12 mini-lathe
            back before they had to change their name to ToolsNow. Tack on ~$139ish
            for my sale-price - 15% coupon HF 4x6 bandsaw, and that is about equal
            to Alibre's "Standard" edition of their software alone... Thats quite a
            sticker shock for a penny punching hobbiest/caveman like me.

            So of course in my short overview of the Alibre software it DOES seem
            pretty nice, dammit. Sigh... I'll have to go back into my cave and
            assume "The Thinker" pose for awhile and ponder these things some more.
            Seems like I used to be much faster at picking things up, somehow.

            Ooog,
            John Z.
          • Goran Hosinsky
            Has anyone compared these three programs google SketchUp, Alibre, CoCreate? I do only occasionally drawing and if the program is complicated I have to re-learn
            Message 5 of 15 , Dec 4, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Has anyone compared these three programs google SketchUp, Alibre,
              CoCreate? I do only occasionally drawing and if the program is
              complicated I have to re-learn it each time - not very good.
              I am not experienced in that type of program. Downloading and
              testing seems to take a day or two for each program before I
              see if it is what I need. Too much time that could be used
              for nicer things. So if anyone has done this work, please
              publish the results!
              Goran

              loud3803 wrote:
              > I use Alibre Design, The express version is very easy to learn, the
              > toutorials are extremely easy to follow. I started with no
              > experience at all and found Alibre to be very usefull and easy to
              > learn. The best part about the express version is that it is free.
              >
              >
              > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, Brian Worth
              > <electromodeler@...> wrote:
              >> Hi John,
              >>
              >> As a drafter of waaaaay too many years, my advice to you would be
              > to jump in with a 3d modelling program. They can almost all be used
              > in 2d if you really want, but I have found that people with little
              > or no drafting experience just seem to grasp 3d easier than 2d, it
              > just seems more intuitive somehow. Depending on what you are wanting
              > to achieve in the long run, look at google SketchUp, Alibre,
              > CoCreate etc which are free to use for private use.
              >> It may be daunting at first, but don't be afraid to play - you
              > won't break anything after all. Most programs come with tutorials
              > and have robust online communities. Once you can grasp the very
              > basics, it will be A for Away...
              >> Regards, Brian
              >>
              >> --- On Thu, 4/12/08, onebike2ride <JZ@...> wrote:
              >> From: onebike2ride <JZ@...>
              >> Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Solid Edge 2D Drafting
              >> To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
              >> Date: Thursday, 4 December, 2008, 3:15 AM
              >>
              >>
              >> Hi Group..!
              >>
              >> With all the discussion about PDF files and such I thought I'd ask
              >> about books & resources for the Solid Edge 2D drafting program.
              > Any good
              >> sources or books I should know about?
              >>
              >> I have *NO* experience with drafting either manually or on the
              >> computer, and at this point I just went through the program's
              > built in
              >> tutorial, which was helpful but left me with more questions than
              > what I
              >> started with (like depicting threaded parts and etc. etc. ad
              > infinitum).
              >> Since I do not have very much time invested yet, I could even try
              > going
              >> to a different (hopefully free) drafting program if there are
              > good books
              >> and such out there to help me along in some good basic detail
              > until I
              >> get a better understanding of things. I am working under the
              >> _assumption_ that 2D would be a better start, to later expand
              > into 3D,
              >> as opposed to just diving into 3D completely from scratch all at
              > once.
              >> As a hobbiest I just want to be able to lay out my ideas in a
              > reasonably
              >> professional manner for the time being, with maybe possibly some
              > CNC
              >> applications later on down the road, but thats *way* down the
              > road, so
              >> to speak. For now I basically just want to lay out my little
              > engine or
              >> generator or whatnot gizmo designs on the computer screen, and
              > hopefully
              >> make and fix most of my simple design mistakes there, instead of
              > after
              >> wasting time & metal on my little lathe and milling machines. Any
              >> starting out advice welcome..! :-)
              >>
              >> Thanks,
              >> John Z.
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >
              >
              > No virus found in this incoming message.
              > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
              > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.13/1828 - Release Date: 12/4/2008 8:05 AM
              >
            • Bob Hawley
              Join the club John, all of use slope heads (caveman) meet at the back of the darkest cave once a month and wonder why some part of our mind doesn t work like
              Message 6 of 15 , Dec 4, 2008
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                Join the club John, all of use slope heads (caveman) meet at the back of the darkest cave once a month and wonder why some part of our mind doesnÂ’t work like the people that make these programs.  bob

                Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 2:28 PM
                Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: Solid Edge 2D Drafting


                --- In GrizHFMinimill@ yahoogroups. com, "loud3803" <loud3803@.. .> wrote:

                >
                > I use Alibre Design,
                The express version is very easy to learn, the
                > toutorials are extremely
                easy to follow. I started with no
                > experience at all and found Alibre to
                be very usefull and easy to
                > learn. The best part about the express
                version is that it is free.

                I'd originally downloaded and installed (some of) a number of CAD
                programs early this year, but shortly after that I had the hard drive
                suddenly decide to retire and so had to replace it, losing a lot of
                stuff like this in the process. I installed Alibre again yesterday and
                found I had to "convert" it to the crippled free version - I'd long ago
                lost my 30 days full functionality test drive time, and of course never
                got to use it with all the functions available. Ah well.

                I spent a little time today just getting started looking things over,
                and can see I'm going to need to find an "Alibre Design For Dummies"
                type of book. These CAD programs are not like the "Geico - so easy a
                caveman can do it" insurance commercials at all. I feel like I should
                have large prominant eyebrows below a low sloping forehead on my rather
                thick skull when I dive into this CAD stuff from scratch like this. :-)

                Alibre's "Standard" at $999 or Alibre "Professional" at $1499 seems
                like a kind of large punishment waiting for me if/when I become
                proficient enough with things to actually need the features that are
                crippled out on the free Express version. For comparison, I paid
                ~$400-ish for my HF 44991 mini-mill by combining a sale price with a %15
                off coupon, and $460 including shipping for my Cummins 7x12 mini-lathe
                back before they had to change their name to ToolsNow. Tack on ~$139ish
                for my sale-price - 15% coupon HF 4x6 bandsaw, and that is about equal
                to Alibre's "Standard" edition of their software alone... Thats quite a
                sticker shock for a penny punching hobbiest/caveman like me.

                So of course in my short overview of the Alibre software it DOES seem
                pretty nice, dammit. Sigh... I'll have to go back into my cave and
                assume "The Thinker" pose for awhile and ponder these things some more.
                Seems like I used to be much faster at picking things up, somehow.

                Ooog,
                John Z.

              • Tim McDonough
                It is no where near the same class tool as AutoCAD, Alibre, Solid Works, etc. but for hobbyist type needs of documenting simple projects in 2D I ve found that
                Message 7 of 15 , Dec 4, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  It is no where near the same class tool as AutoCAD, Alibre, Solid
                  Works, etc. but for hobbyist type needs of documenting simple projects
                  in 2D I've found that DeltaCAD <http://www.deltacad.com/> at about
                  $40USD works pretty well. It will let you export/import DXF format
                  drawings and files to exchange stuff with other programs.

                  In a former business I used DeltaCAD to produce files that a contract
                  laser cutter used to produce model airplane parts for my kits.

                  Tim

                  onebike2ride wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                  > <mailto:GrizHFMinimill%40yahoogroups.com>, "loud3803" <loud3803@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I use Alibre Design, The express version is very easy to learn, the
                  > > toutorials are extremely easy to follow. I started with no
                  > > experience at all and found Alibre to be very usefull and easy to
                  > > learn. The best part about the express version is that it is free.
                  >
                  > I'd originally downloaded and installed (some of) a number of CAD
                  > programs early this year, but shortly after that I had the hard drive
                  > suddenly decide to retire and so had to replace it, losing a lot of
                  > stuff like this in the process. I installed Alibre again yesterday and
                  > found I had to "convert" it to the crippled free version - I'd long ago
                  > lost my 30 days full functionality test drive time, and of course never
                  > got to use it with all the functions available. Ah well.
                  >
                  > I spent a little time today just getting started looking things over,
                  > and can see I'm going to need to find an "Alibre Design For Dummies"
                  > type of book. These CAD programs are not like the "Geico - so easy a
                  > caveman can do it" insurance commercials at all. I feel like I should
                  > have large prominant eyebrows below a low sloping forehead on my rather
                  > thick skull when I dive into this CAD stuff from scratch like this. :-)
                  >
                  > Alibre's "Standard" at $999 or Alibre "Professional" at $1499 seems
                  > like a kind of large punishment waiting for me if/when I become
                  > proficient enough with things to actually need the features that are
                  > crippled out on the free Express version. For comparison, I paid
                  > ~$400-ish for my HF 44991 mini-mill by combining a sale price with a %15
                  > off coupon, and $460 including shipping for my Cummins 7x12 mini-lathe
                  > back before they had to change their name to ToolsNow. Tack on ~$139ish
                  > for my sale-price - 15% coupon HF 4x6 bandsaw, and that is about equal
                  > to Alibre's "Standard" edition of their software alone... Thats quite a
                  > sticker shock for a penny punching hobbiest/caveman like me.
                  >
                  > So of course in my short overview of the Alibre software it DOES seem
                  > pretty nice, dammit. Sigh... I'll have to go back into my cave and
                  > assume "The Thinker" pose for awhile and ponder these things some more.
                  > Seems like I used to be much faster at picking things up, somehow.
                  >
                  > Ooog,
                  > John Z.
                  >
                  >
                • Barry Young
                  It can get much much worse. I just installed a legal non-pirated version of MasterCAM X3. OMG!!! Barry
                  Message 8 of 15 , Dec 4, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    It can get much much worse.

                    I just installed a legal non-pirated version of MasterCAM X3. OMG!!!

                    Barry



                    --- On Thu, 12/4/08, onebike2ride <JZ@...> wrote:

                    > From: onebike2ride <JZ@...>
                    > Subject: [GrizHFMinimill] Re: Solid Edge 2D Drafting
                    > To: GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                    > Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 2:28 PM
                    > --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "loud3803"
                    > <loud3803@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I use Alibre Design, The express version is very easy
                    > to learn, the
                    > > toutorials are extremely easy to follow. I started
                    > with no
                    > > experience at all and found Alibre to be very usefull
                    > and easy to
                    > > learn. The best part about the express version is that
                    > it is free.
                    >
                    > I'd originally downloaded and installed (some of) a
                    > number of CAD
                    > programs early this year, but shortly after that I had the
                    > hard drive
                    > suddenly decide to retire and so had to replace it, losing
                    > a lot of
                    > stuff like this in the process. I installed Alibre again
                    > yesterday and
                    > found I had to "convert" it to the crippled free
                    > version - I'd long ago
                    > lost my 30 days full functionality test drive time, and of
                    > course never
                    > got to use it with all the functions available. Ah well.
                    >
                    > I spent a little time today just getting started looking
                    > things over,
                    > and can see I'm going to need to find an "Alibre
                    > Design For Dummies"
                    > type of book. These CAD programs are not like the
                    > "Geico - so easy a
                    > caveman can do it" insurance commercials at all. I
                    > feel like I should
                    > have large prominant eyebrows below a low sloping forehead
                    > on my rather
                    > thick skull when I dive into this CAD stuff from scratch
                    > like this. :-)
                    >
                    > Alibre's "Standard" at $999 or Alibre
                    > "Professional" at $1499 seems
                    > like a kind of large punishment waiting for me if/when I
                    > become
                    > proficient enough with things to actually need the features
                    > that are
                    > crippled out on the free Express version. For comparison, I
                    > paid
                    > ~$400-ish for my HF 44991 mini-mill by combining a sale
                    > price with a %15
                    > off coupon, and $460 including shipping for my Cummins 7x12
                    > mini-lathe
                    > back before they had to change their name to ToolsNow. Tack
                    > on ~$139ish
                    > for my sale-price - 15% coupon HF 4x6 bandsaw, and that is
                    > about equal
                    > to Alibre's "Standard" edition of their
                    > software alone... Thats quite a
                    > sticker shock for a penny punching hobbiest/caveman like
                    > me.
                    >
                    > So of course in my short overview of the Alibre software it
                    > DOES seem
                    > pretty nice, dammit. Sigh... I'll have to go back into
                    > my cave and
                    > assume "The Thinker" pose for awhile and ponder
                    > these things some more.
                    > Seems like I used to be much faster at picking things up,
                    > somehow.
                    >
                    > Ooog,
                    > John Z.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Goran Hosinsky
                    I am using Deltacad. It is easy and intuitive but the export function leaves a lot to be desired. I made a azimuth scale 80 cm diameter for my telescope. The
                    Message 9 of 15 , Dec 4, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I am using Deltacad. It is easy and intuitive but the export function
                      leaves a lot to be desired. I made a azimuth scale 80 cm diameter
                      for my telescope. The printers could not read the delta cad format,
                      the exported DXF version had lost all formatting of line width etc.
                      Goran


                      Tim McDonough wrote:
                      > It is no where near the same class tool as AutoCAD, Alibre, Solid
                      > Works, etc. but for hobbyist type needs of documenting simple projects
                      > in 2D I've found that DeltaCAD <http://www.deltacad.com/> at about
                      > $40USD works pretty well. It will let you export/import DXF format
                      > drawings and files to exchange stuff with other programs.
                      >
                      > In a former business I used DeltaCAD to produce files that a contract
                      > laser cutter used to produce model airplane parts for my kits.
                      >
                      > Tim
                      >
                      > onebike2ride wrote:
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                      >> <mailto:GrizHFMinimill%40yahoogroups.com>, "loud3803" <loud3803@...> wrote:
                      >> >
                      >> > I use Alibre Design, The express version is very easy to learn, the
                      >> > toutorials are extremely easy to follow. I started with no
                      >> > experience at all and found Alibre to be very usefull and easy to
                      >> > learn. The best part about the express version is that it is free.
                      >>
                      >> I'd originally downloaded and installed (some of) a number of CAD
                      >> programs early this year, but shortly after that I had the hard drive
                      >> suddenly decide to retire and so had to replace it, losing a lot of
                      >> stuff like this in the process. I installed Alibre again yesterday and
                      >> found I had to "convert" it to the crippled free version - I'd long ago
                      >> lost my 30 days full functionality test drive time, and of course never
                      >> got to use it with all the functions available. Ah well.
                      >>
                      >> I spent a little time today just getting started looking things over,
                      >> and can see I'm going to need to find an "Alibre Design For Dummies"
                      >> type of book. These CAD programs are not like the "Geico - so easy a
                      >> caveman can do it" insurance commercials at all. I feel like I should
                      >> have large prominant eyebrows below a low sloping forehead on my rather
                      >> thick skull when I dive into this CAD stuff from scratch like this. :-)
                      >>
                      >> Alibre's "Standard" at $999 or Alibre "Professional" at $1499 seems
                      >> like a kind of large punishment waiting for me if/when I become
                      >> proficient enough with things to actually need the features that are
                      >> crippled out on the free Express version. For comparison, I paid
                      >> ~$400-ish for my HF 44991 mini-mill by combining a sale price with a %15
                      >> off coupon, and $460 including shipping for my Cummins 7x12 mini-lathe
                      >> back before they had to change their name to ToolsNow. Tack on ~$139ish
                      >> for my sale-price - 15% coupon HF 4x6 bandsaw, and that is about equal
                      >> to Alibre's "Standard" edition of their software alone... Thats quite a
                      >> sticker shock for a penny punching hobbiest/caveman like me.
                      >>
                      >> So of course in my short overview of the Alibre software it DOES seem
                      >> pretty nice, dammit. Sigh... I'll have to go back into my cave and
                      >> assume "The Thinker" pose for awhile and ponder these things some more.
                      >> Seems like I used to be much faster at picking things up, somehow.
                      >>
                      >> Ooog,
                      >> John Z.
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      >
                      >
                      > No virus found in this incoming message.
                      > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
                      > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.14/1831 - Release Date: 12/4/2008 9:55 PM
                      >
                    • Tim McDonough
                      I do not have the latest version yet but a newly added feature claims to read/write .DWG format files. I am not a CAD expert but over the years I have not been
                      Message 10 of 15 , Dec 5, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I do not have the latest version yet but a newly added feature claims
                        to read/write .DWG format files. I am not a CAD expert but over the
                        years I have not been overly impressed with .DXF. It seems as if it
                        has some quirk on nearly any system. That could be the nature of the
                        beast.

                        I primarily use DeltaCAD as a documentation tool where I send other
                        people paper or PDF prints. If more of my work involved exchanging
                        data I'd be tempted to research other tools and make a more
                        substantial investment.

                        Tim


                        Goran Hosinsky wrote:
                        >
                        > I am using Deltacad. It is easy and intuitive but the export function
                        > leaves a lot to be desired. I made a azimuth scale 80 cm diameter
                        > for my telescope. The printers could not read the delta cad format,
                        > the exported DXF version had lost all formatting of line width etc.
                        > Goran
                        >
                        > Tim McDonough wrote:
                        > > It is no where near the same class tool as AutoCAD, Alibre, Solid
                        > > Works, etc. but for hobbyist type needs of documenting simple projects
                        > > in 2D I've found that DeltaCAD <http://www.deltacad.com/
                        > <http://www.deltacad.com/>> at about
                        > > $40USD works pretty well. It will let you export/import DXF format
                        > > drawings and files to exchange stuff with other programs.
                        > >
                        > > In a former business I used DeltaCAD to produce files that a contract
                        > > laser cutter used to produce model airplane parts for my kits.
                        > >
                        > > Tim
                        > >
                        > > onebike2ride wrote:
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >> --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                        > <mailto:GrizHFMinimill%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > >> <mailto:GrizHFMinimill%40yahoogroups.com>, "loud3803" <loud3803@...>
                        > wrote:
                        > >> >
                        > >> > I use Alibre Design, The express version is very easy to learn, the
                        > >> > toutorials are extremely easy to follow. I started with no
                        > >> > experience at all and found Alibre to be very usefull and easy to
                        > >> > learn. The best part about the express version is that it is free.
                        > >>
                        > >> I'd originally downloaded and installed (some of) a number of CAD
                        > >> programs early this year, but shortly after that I had the hard drive
                        > >> suddenly decide to retire and so had to replace it, losing a lot of
                        > >> stuff like this in the process. I installed Alibre again yesterday and
                        > >> found I had to "convert" it to the crippled free version - I'd long ago
                        > >> lost my 30 days full functionality test drive time, and of course never
                        > >> got to use it with all the functions available. Ah well.
                        > >>
                        > >> I spent a little time today just getting started looking things over,
                        > >> and can see I'm going to need to find an "Alibre Design For Dummies"
                        > >> type of book. These CAD programs are not like the "Geico - so easy a
                        > >> caveman can do it" insurance commercials at all. I feel like I should
                        > >> have large prominant eyebrows below a low sloping forehead on my rather
                        > >> thick skull when I dive into this CAD stuff from scratch like this. :-)
                        > >>
                        > >> Alibre's "Standard" at $999 or Alibre "Professional" at $1499 seems
                        > >> like a kind of large punishment waiting for me if/when I become
                        > >> proficient enough with things to actually need the features that are
                        > >> crippled out on the free Express version. For comparison, I paid
                        > >> ~$400-ish for my HF 44991 mini-mill by combining a sale price with a %15
                        > >> off coupon, and $460 including shipping for my Cummins 7x12 mini-lathe
                        > >> back before they had to change their name to ToolsNow. Tack on ~$139ish
                        > >> for my sale-price - 15% coupon HF 4x6 bandsaw, and that is about equal
                        > >> to Alibre's "Standard" edition of their software alone... Thats quite a
                        > >> sticker shock for a penny punching hobbiest/caveman like me.
                        > >>
                        > >> So of course in my short overview of the Alibre software it DOES seem
                        > >> pretty nice, dammit. Sigh... I'll have to go back into my cave and
                        > >> assume "The Thinker" pose for awhile and ponder these things some more.
                        > >> Seems like I used to be much faster at picking things up, somehow.
                        > >>
                        > >> Ooog,
                        > >> John Z.
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >
                        > > ------------------------------------
                        > >
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                        > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                        > > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.14/1831 - Release Date:
                        > 12/4/2008 9:55 PM
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                      • Goran Hosinsky
                        It is easy to use and that is a important point. How do you get the PDF from deltacad? Goran
                        Message 11 of 15 , Dec 5, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          It is easy to use and that is a important point. How do you get
                          the PDF from deltacad?
                          Goran

                          Tim McDonough wrote:
                          > I do not have the latest version yet but a newly added feature claims
                          > to read/write .DWG format files. I am not a CAD expert but over the
                          > years I have not been overly impressed with .DXF. It seems as if it
                          > has some quirk on nearly any system. That could be the nature of the
                          > beast.
                          >
                          > I primarily use DeltaCAD as a documentation tool where I send other
                          > people paper or PDF prints. If more of my work involved exchanging
                          > data I'd be tempted to research other tools and make a more
                          > substantial investment.
                          >
                          > Tim
                          >
                          >
                          > Goran Hosinsky wrote:
                          >> I am using Deltacad. It is easy and intuitive but the export function
                          >> leaves a lot to be desired. I made a azimuth scale 80 cm diameter
                          >> for my telescope. The printers could not read the delta cad format,
                          >> the exported DXF version had lost all formatting of line width etc.
                          >> Goran
                          >>
                          >> Tim McDonough wrote:
                          >> > It is no where near the same class tool as AutoCAD, Alibre, Solid
                          >> > Works, etc. but for hobbyist type needs of documenting simple projects
                          >> > in 2D I've found that DeltaCAD <http://www.deltacad.com/
                          >> <http://www.deltacad.com/>> at about
                          >> > $40USD works pretty well. It will let you export/import DXF format
                          >> > drawings and files to exchange stuff with other programs.
                          >> >
                          >> > In a former business I used DeltaCAD to produce files that a contract
                          >> > laser cutter used to produce model airplane parts for my kits.
                          >> >
                          >> > Tim
                          >> >
                          >> > onebike2ride wrote:
                          >> >>
                          >> >>
                          >> >> --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com
                          >> <mailto:GrizHFMinimill%40yahoogroups.com>
                          >> >> <mailto:GrizHFMinimill%40yahoogroups.com>, "loud3803" <loud3803@...>
                          >> wrote:
                          >> >> >
                          >> >> > I use Alibre Design, The express version is very easy to learn, the
                          >> >> > toutorials are extremely easy to follow. I started with no
                          >> >> > experience at all and found Alibre to be very usefull and easy to
                          >> >> > learn. The best part about the express version is that it is free.
                          >> >>
                          >> >> I'd originally downloaded and installed (some of) a number of CAD
                          >> >> programs early this year, but shortly after that I had the hard drive
                          >> >> suddenly decide to retire and so had to replace it, losing a lot of
                          >> >> stuff like this in the process. I installed Alibre again yesterday and
                          >> >> found I had to "convert" it to the crippled free version - I'd long ago
                          >> >> lost my 30 days full functionality test drive time, and of course never
                          >> >> got to use it with all the functions available. Ah well.
                          >> >>
                          >> >> I spent a little time today just getting started looking things over,
                          >> >> and can see I'm going to need to find an "Alibre Design For Dummies"
                          >> >> type of book. These CAD programs are not like the "Geico - so easy a
                          >> >> caveman can do it" insurance commercials at all. I feel like I should
                          >> >> have large prominant eyebrows below a low sloping forehead on my rather
                          >> >> thick skull when I dive into this CAD stuff from scratch like this. :-)
                          >> >>
                          >> >> Alibre's "Standard" at $999 or Alibre "Professional" at $1499 seems
                          >> >> like a kind of large punishment waiting for me if/when I become
                          >> >> proficient enough with things to actually need the features that are
                          >> >> crippled out on the free Express version. For comparison, I paid
                          >> >> ~$400-ish for my HF 44991 mini-mill by combining a sale price with a %15
                          >> >> off coupon, and $460 including shipping for my Cummins 7x12 mini-lathe
                          >> >> back before they had to change their name to ToolsNow. Tack on ~$139ish
                          >> >> for my sale-price - 15% coupon HF 4x6 bandsaw, and that is about equal
                          >> >> to Alibre's "Standard" edition of their software alone... Thats quite a
                          >> >> sticker shock for a penny punching hobbiest/caveman like me.
                          >> >>
                          >> >> So of course in my short overview of the Alibre software it DOES seem
                          >> >> pretty nice, dammit. Sigh... I'll have to go back into my cave and
                          >> >> assume "The Thinker" pose for awhile and ponder these things some more.
                          >> >> Seems like I used to be much faster at picking things up, somehow.
                          >> >>
                          >> >> Ooog,
                          >> >> John Z.
                          >> >>
                          >> >>
                          >> >
                          >> > ------------------------------------
                          >> >
                          >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >> >
                          >> >
                          >> >
                          >> >
                          >> > ----------------------------------------------------------
                          >> >
                          >> >
                          >> > No virus found in this incoming message.
                          >> > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                          >> > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.14/1831 - Release Date:
                          >> 12/4/2008 9:55 PM
                          >> >
                          >>
                          >>
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          >
                          >
                          > No virus found in this incoming message.
                          > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
                          > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.14/1832 - Release Date: 12/5/2008 9:57 AM
                          >
                        • Tim McDonough
                          I use a free utility called CutePDF Writer on all my Windows machines. It installs as a printer and allows you to create a PDF file from any program that would
                          Message 12 of 15 , Dec 5, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I use a free utility called CutePDF Writer on all my Windows machines.
                            It installs as a printer and allows you to create a PDF file from any
                            program that would normally be able to use a real printer. You just
                            select it as your "printer" and off it goes.

                            <http://www.cutepdf.com/Products/CutePDF/writer.asp>

                            Tim

                            Goran Hosinsky wrote:
                            >
                            > It is easy to use and that is a important point. How do you get
                            > the PDF from deltacad?
                            > Goran
                          • Bill Black
                            Hi all, I will leave lurking mode for this one. I am an engineering student and have a Alibre Design Expert seat that I actually paid full price for. I also
                            Message 13 of 15 , Dec 5, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hi all,
                              I will leave lurking mode for this one. I am an engineering student
                              and have a Alibre Design Expert seat that I actually paid full price
                              for. I also have acquired, through various academic programs, AutoCAD
                              Inventor and Solidworks.
                              IMHO: Alibre is the best deal for the money. Unfortunately it is not
                              popular enough to have a "Dummies" or any other book published about
                              it yet. Solidworks is the best 3D CAD program that I have used. The
                              interface is more intuitive and the tools more comprehensive. Inventor
                              is possibly the most powerful, but the interface is hopelessly
                              complicated for any but the person that uses it daily (and I don't).
                              Now...for the good part...how to get it cheaper:
                              Full versions of outdated software on EBay..make darned sure it isn't
                              pirated or stolen and ask specifically if you can register the
                              software with the company. If they stutter or say no..well..it may or
                              may not work for you.
                              If there is a student in your household or if you are related to
                              one...investigate the student editions. Some companies also have
                              a "Personal Edition" as well. Often if you call the sales department
                              you can get a free trial copy of the full version-once in a while you
                              can get a free copy. These companies really want more folks to use
                              their software. They know the average person cannot afford it for home
                              use, so they give deals on it like Personal and Student Editions.
                              Their profits come from selling to corporations/businesses, not
                              students or individuals. Some student editions are "feature-limited"
                              so one should check to make sure that the features you want to use are
                              not the ones that are limited. AutoCAD student editions generally have
                              an imprint on each files that points out that it was produced by
                              student edition software. No big deal to you and I, but if you
                              submitted those drawings for a commercial project that imprint might
                              be embarassing!
                              Prices:
                              Solidworks Student Edition is around $100 USD at most places for a 2
                              year license.
                              Pro/E is about $130 USD for the Student Version and $250 USD for
                              the "Personal Edition"
                              Alibre Design Expert "Student Edition" $198.95 @ studica.com
                              There are several places to buy student and personal editions: Google
                              is your friend.
                              Hope this helps someone,
                              Returning to studying for finals/ lurking mode ON.
                              :)
                            • Goran Hosinsky
                              Thanks!
                              Message 14 of 15 , Dec 5, 2008
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Thanks!

                                Tim McDonough wrote:
                                > I use a free utility called CutePDF Writer on all my Windows machines.
                                > It installs as a printer and allows you to create a PDF file from any
                                > program that would normally be able to use a real printer. You just
                                > select it as your "printer" and off it goes.
                                >
                                > <http://www.cutepdf.com/Products/CutePDF/writer.asp>
                                >
                                > Tim
                                >
                                > Goran Hosinsky wrote:
                                >> It is easy to use and that is a important point. How do you get
                                >> the PDF from deltacad?
                                >> Goran
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                >
                                >
                                > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
                                > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.14/1832 - Release Date: 12/5/2008 9:57 AM
                                >
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