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Re: X3 Spindle Problems

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  • moparado
    Since no one has posted any R8 taper specifications, i searched the internet myself and just about came up with nothing. All kinds of specs for Morse and other
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 1, 2007
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      Since no one has posted any R8 taper specifications, i searched the
      internet myself and just about came up with nothing. All kinds of
      specs for Morse and other Tapers but R8 is typically just mentioned
      usually with just an outline drawing or picture with no dimensions.

      From what i gathered, the R8 taper was developed by Bridgeport and
      far as i can tell there's nothing on their site except sales pitches
      for new machines. Maybe its still proprietary? Can't be, tons of
      companies making R8 tooling?
      This is the only R8 info i found after about an hour Googling the
      web. Its for an R8 shank, its partial at best with no tolerances. The
      description mentions its also referred to as an M1TR taper?

      http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/Tapers.html

      -Ken
      ------------------------------------
      "moparado" <kenwm2@...> wrote:
      >
      > Maybe someone here who has had experience with many different R8
      > milling machines and/or knows the R8 tolerance specs will chime in.
      > -Ken
      >
      > ----------------------------------
      >
      > "dcm269dcm" <dcm@> wrote:
      > i had heard about this type of problem before, so i was on the
      > lookout for it. i removed and reinstalled the stock chuck, no
      problem.
      > checked out an r8-mt2 adap., likewise no problem.
      > now to get to the point. i mic'ed two r8 end mill holders, the
      > r8-mt2 adap, and the stock arbor. measured .9487 with my Starret 1"
      mic
      > all pretty much the same. then i mic'ed five r8 collets that i
      bought
      > from "shars", and they measured .9496 a difference of ~ 9 tenths.
      > this was enough to make installing the collets difficult.
      > measurements taken on drawbar end of each piece. i don't know the
      specs
      > on these, but a thousandths variation seems to be a lot for a
      spindle
      > fit. does anybody else have any opinions or comments on these
      > findings?
      > i welcome any input.
      > DON
      >
    • Ray Livingston
      Ken, Well, there are these: http://www.loganact.com/tips/r8.htm http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Tables/Clarkson3.htm
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 1, 2007
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        Ken,

        Well, there are these:
        http://www.loganact.com/tips/r8.htm
        http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Tables/Clarkson3.htm
        http://www.desktopcnc.com/useful/taper_spec.htm
        http://www.dunhamtool.com/r8_collet.html

        Regards,
        Ray L.





        --- In GrizHFMinimill@yahoogroups.com, "moparado" <kenwm2@...> wrote:
        >
        > Since no one has posted any R8 taper specifications, i searched the
        > internet myself and just about came up with nothing. All kinds of
        > specs for Morse and other Tapers but R8 is typically just mentioned
        > usually with just an outline drawing or picture with no dimensions.
        >
        > From what i gathered, the R8 taper was developed by Bridgeport and
        > far as i can tell there's nothing on their site except sales
        pitches
        > for new machines. Maybe its still proprietary? Can't be, tons of
        > companies making R8 tooling?
        > This is the only R8 info i found after about an hour Googling the
        > web. Its for an R8 shank, its partial at best with no tolerances.
        The
        > description mentions its also referred to as an M1TR taper?
        >
        > http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/Tapers.html
        >
        > -Ken
        > ------------------------------------
        > "moparado" <kenwm2@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Maybe someone here who has had experience with many different R8
        > > milling machines and/or knows the R8 tolerance specs will chime
        in.
        > > -Ken
        > >
        > > ----------------------------------
        > >
        > > "dcm269dcm" <dcm@> wrote:
        > > i had heard about this type of problem before, so i was on the
        > > lookout for it. i removed and reinstalled the stock chuck, no
        > problem.
        > > checked out an r8-mt2 adap., likewise no problem.
        > > now to get to the point. i mic'ed two r8 end mill holders, the
        > > r8-mt2 adap, and the stock arbor. measured .9487 with my Starret
        1"
        > mic
        > > all pretty much the same. then i mic'ed five r8 collets that i
        > bought
        > > from "shars", and they measured .9496 a difference of ~ 9 tenths.
        > > this was enough to make installing the collets difficult.
        > > measurements taken on drawbar end of each piece. i don't know the
        > specs
        > > on these, but a thousandths variation seems to be a lot for a
        > spindle
        > > fit. does anybody else have any opinions or comments on these
        > > findings?
        > > i welcome any input.
        > > DON
        > >
        >
      • moparado
        Ray, that second link you posted is the winner! Now if we can get Seig s R8 spindle specs? -Ken
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 1, 2007
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          Ray, that second link you posted is the winner!
          Now if we can get Seig's R8 spindle specs?
          -Ken

          -----------------------
          "Ray Livingston" <jagboy1964@...> wrote:
          > Ken,
          > Well, there are these:
          > http://www.loganact.com/tips/r8.htm
          > http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Tables/Clarkson3.htm
          > http://www.desktopcnc.com/useful/taper_spec.htm
          > http://www.dunhamtool.com/r8_collet.html
          >
          > Regards,
          > Ray L.
          >
        • dolittlex
          Ray- A R8 taper collet dimensional picture has been put in the files section. I hope this answers your question on the tolerances on the taper. Ed
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 1, 2007
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            Ray-
            A R8 taper collet dimensional picture has been put in the files
            section. I hope this answers your question on the tolerances on the
            taper.
            Ed
          • philjoe5
            Hi All, Once you folks supplied me with some R8 taper specs I went to work measuring the top shank diameters and keyway diameters of my R8 tools. I found a
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 7, 2007
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              Hi All,
              Once you folks supplied me with some R8 taper specs I went to work
              measuring the top shank diameters and keyway diameters of my R8
              tools. I found a range of 0.940 – 0.949" for the top shank diameters
              of my R8 tools. Now the good part..the collets have the smallest
              diameter (0.940") but barely enter the spindle before binding while
              the boring head with the highest diameter at 0.949" fits easily. So
              the shank top diameter doesn't seem to be an issue with my spindle.

              When I measured the keyways I found my collets have the highest
              keyway diameter at 0.878" (way out of specs) while all my other
              tooling that fits in the spindle ranges from 0.844" – 0.845". The
              face mill that will go about 2/3 of the way up the spindle before
              binding has a keyway diameter of 0.847". If I'm reading the spec
              sheet correctly, the tolerance for the keyway diameter is as low as
              0.846". So it appears as if my X3 spindle is machined to the low end
              of the specification for the R8 and the tooling that I've been buying
              is generally spec'd for the low end but not always (collets).

              Since all my R8's fit in my Minimill I suspect that spindle is being
              machined on the high side for keyway diameter.

              My questions to Grizzly by email were usually answered within an hour
              and they were helpful in getting me through the start up. They are
              sending a replacement spindle and I suspect someday when I'm up to it
              I'll replace the one I have (but not before checking it against every
              R8 shank I have).

              The milling operations that I've done so far produce excellent
              finishes. If you need more capacity than the minimill but still need
              a bench top machine the X3 is a great upgrade.

              Lesson learned: If you buy a new X3 and have trouble with some of
              your R8 tools fitting in the spindle, measure your keyway and shank
              diameters before removing any metal from the spindle. Thanks to
              everyone for your help and I hope this enlightens perspective buyers
              of the X3 mill.

              Cheers,
              Phil
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