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Tenant's rights

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  • KAREN
    I would like to ask a question about the rights of tenants when no lease is present. Basically, I would like to know if a landlord is required to return a
    Message 1 of 17 , Aug 1, 2012
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      I would like to ask a question about the rights of tenants when no lease is present.

      Basically, I would like to know if a landlord is required to return a security deposit when a 30 day notice has been given. The rental agent is saying she does not think I will be given my money back.

      Gracias,
      Karen
    • suelto
      Landlords are required, but never do. ALWAYS, use your deposit as last month s rent payment.
      Message 2 of 17 , Aug 1, 2012
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        Landlords are required, but never do.

        ALWAYS, use your deposit as last month's rent payment.



        On 8/1/2012 4:21 AM, KAREN wrote:
        > I would like to ask a question about the rights of tenants when no lease is present.
        >
        > Basically, I would like to know if a landlord is required to return a security deposit when a 30 day notice has been given. The rental agent is saying she does not think I will be given my money back.
        >
        > Gracias,
        > Karen
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Raquel Frame
        Without a lease and after 4 years you can declare right of possession and own the house and land that it sits on this is a great benefit of living in Panama.
        Message 3 of 17 , Aug 1, 2012
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          Without a lease and after 4 years you can declare right of possession and own the house and land that it sits on this is a great benefit of living in Panama. 
           
          Best of luck.
           
          Raquel
          On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 8:18 AM, suelto <suelto@...> wrote:
           

          Landlords are required, but never do.

          ALWAYS, use your deposit as last month's rent payment.



          On 8/1/2012 4:21 AM, KAREN wrote:
          > I would like to ask a question about the rights of tenants when no lease is present.
          >
          > Basically, I would like to know if a landlord is required to return a security deposit when a 30 day notice has been given. The rental agent is saying she does not think I will be given my money back.
          >
          > Gracias,
          > Karen
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >




          --
          Raquel Frame
          Work e-mail: RaquelFrame@...
          +1 (202) 657 5414 (USA Skype Phone-World Access) Skype ID: Raquel.Frame
          +31 (20) 894-3686 (The Netherlands Office Phone-World Access)
          +1 (225) 288 8496 (USA Cellphone-Limited Access)

        • Lynn Huber
          Dear Raquel,   You must be joking. Being able to take advantage of a house owner s ignorance of law, and legally steal their house from them, is hardly what
          Message 4 of 17 , Aug 1, 2012
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            Dear Raquel,
             
            You must be joking. Being able to take advantage of a house owner's ignorance of law, and legally steal their house from them, is hardly what most people would see as a "great benefit" of living in Panama.
             
            Always,
            Lynn

            From: Raquel Frame <raquelframe@...>
            To: Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2012 9:27 AM
            Subject: Re: [Gringos_in_David_Panama] Tenant's rights

             
            Without a lease and after 4 years you can declare right of possession and own the house and land that it sits on this is a great benefit of living in Panama. 
             
            Best of luck.
             
            Raquel
            On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 8:18 AM, suelto <suelto@...> wrote:
             
            Landlords are required, but never do.

            ALWAYS, use your deposit as last month's rent payment.


            On 8/1/2012 4:21 AM, KAREN wrote:
            > I would like to ask a question about the rights of tenants when no lease is present.
            >
            > Basically, I would like to know if a landlord is required to return a security deposit when a 30 day notice has been given. The rental agent is saying she does not think I will be given my money back.
            >
            > Gracias,
            > Karen
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >




            --
            Raquel Frame
            Work e-mail: RaquelFrame@...
            +1 (202) 657 5414 (USA Skype Phone-World Access) Skype ID: Raquel.Frame
            +31 (20) 894-3686 (The Netherlands Office Phone-World Access)
            +1 (225) 288 8496 (USA Cellphone-Limited Access)



          • Lynn Huber
            It s always a good idea, no matter where you live, to insist on a lease or rental contract that s legally binding on both parties.
            Message 5 of 17 , Aug 1, 2012
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              It's always a good idea, no matter where you live, to insist on a lease or rental contract that's legally binding on both parties.

              From: suelto <suelto@...>
              To: Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2012 9:18 AM
              Subject: Re: [Gringos_in_David_Panama] Tenant's rights

               
              Landlords are required, but never do.

              ALWAYS, use your deposit as last month's rent payment.

              On 8/1/2012 4:21 AM, KAREN wrote:
              > I would like to ask a question about the rights of tenants when no lease is present.
              >
              > Basically, I would like to know if a landlord is required to return a security deposit when a 30 day notice has been given. The rental agent is saying she does not think I will be given my money back.
              >
              > Gracias,
              > Karen
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >



            • ron
              I will need to remember your name so I would never rent you a house or conduct any type of business with you. Appalling that you would post this kind of thing.
              Message 6 of 17 , Aug 1, 2012
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                I will need to remember your name so I would never rent you a house or conduct any type of business with you. Appalling that you would post this kind of thing. Ron

                 

                From: Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Huber
                Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 9:58 AM
                To: Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [Gringos_in_David_Panama] Tenant's rights

                 

                 

                Dear Raquel,

                 

                You must be joking. Being able to take advantage of a house owner's ignorance of law, and legally steal their house from them, is hardly what most people would see as a "great benefit" of living in Panama.

                 

                Always,

                Lynn

                 

                From: Raquel Frame <raquelframe@...>
                To: Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2012 9:27 AM
                Subject: Re: [Gringos_in_David_Panama] Tenant's rights

                 

                 

                Without a lease and after 4 years you can declare right of possession and own the house and land that it sits on this is a great benefit of living in Panama. 

                 

                Best of luck.

                 

                Raquel

                On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 8:18 AM, suelto <suelto@...> wrote:

                 

                Landlords are required, but never do.

                ALWAYS, use your deposit as last month's rent payment.



                On 8/1/2012 4:21 AM, KAREN wrote:
                > I would like to ask a question about the rights of tenants when no lease is present.
                >
                > Basically, I would like to know if a landlord is required to return a security deposit when a 30 day notice has been given. The rental agent is saying she does not think I will be given my money back.
                >
                > Gracias,
                > Karen
                >
                >
                >

                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >




                --

                Raquel Frame
                Work e-mail: RaquelFrame@...
                +1 (202) 657 5414 (USA Skype Phone-World Access) Skype ID: Raquel.Frame

                +31 (20) 894-3686 (The Netherlands Office Phone-World Access)

                +1 (225) 288 8496 (USA Cellphone-Limited Access)

                 

                 

              • Dalys Rest
                The easiest way to recoup your deposit is to not pay the last month s rent. I have very limited experience, but have done that once. Pete
                Message 7 of 17 , Aug 1, 2012
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                  The easiest way to recoup your deposit is to not pay the last month's rent.  I have very limited experience, but have done that once.
                  Pete
                • Ellie Wharton
                  It is my understanding that landlords must place a rental deposit in a special account, which is actually a government account, so that it is readily available
                  Message 8 of 17 , Aug 1, 2012
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                    It is my understanding that landlords must place a rental deposit in a special account, which is actually a government account, so that it is readily available at the end of the lease. You can check with the group ADECO which has information on consumer rights.
                     
                    Ellie
                     
                     
                     


                    From: Lynn Huber <elbsmca@...>
                    To: "Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com" <Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2012 8:57 AM
                    Subject: Re: [Gringos_in_David_Panama] Tenant's rights

                     
                    Dear Raquel,
                     
                    You must be joking. Being able to take advantage of a house owner's ignorance of law, and legally steal their house from them, is hardly what most people would see as a "great benefit" of living in Panama.
                     
                    Always,
                    Lynn

                    From: Raquel Frame <raquelframe@...>
                    To: Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2012 9:27 AM
                    Subject: Re: [Gringos_in_David_Panama] Tenant's rights

                     
                    Without a lease and after 4 years you can declare right of possession and own the house and land that it sits on this is a great benefit of living in Panama. 
                     
                    Best of luck.
                     
                    Raquel
                    On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 8:18 AM, suelto <suelto@...> wrote:
                     
                    Landlords are required, but never do.

                    ALWAYS, use your deposit as last month's rent payment.


                    On 8/1/2012 4:21 AM, KAREN wrote:
                    > I would like to ask a question about the rights of tenants when no lease is present.
                    >
                    > Basically, I would like to know if a landlord is required to return a security deposit when a 30 day notice has been given. The rental agent is saying she does not think I will be given my money back.
                    >
                    > Gracias,
                    > Karen
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >




                    --
                    Raquel Frame
                    Work e-mail: RaquelFrame@...
                    +1 (202) 657 5414 (USA Skype Phone-World Access) Skype ID: Raquel.Frame
                    +31 (20) 894-3686 (The Netherlands Office Phone-World Access)
                    +1 (225) 288 8496 (USA Cellphone-Limited Access)





                  • Dalys Rest
                    You re probably right about the must deposit , but a lot of laws like that are treated as no more than suggestions and not enforced. I gather from another
                    Message 9 of 17 , Aug 1, 2012
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                      You're probably right about the "must deposit", but a lot of laws like that are treated as no more than suggestions and not enforced.  I gather from another response that my approach of recouping the deposit from the last month's rent is common practice, as well as being morally correct, which is not the case for Raquel's idea.
                      You're missing a couple of letters form the acronym of the consumer protection agency.  It's ACODECO.
                      Pete
                    • suelto
                      Yes, but they don t. Generally they spend it, so it isn t available to return (If they ever had any intention of returning it). From personal experience, the
                      Message 10 of 17 , Aug 1, 2012
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                        Yes, but they don't. Generally they spend it, so it isn't available to
                        return (If they ever had any intention of returning it).

                        From personal experience, the ONLY way to get it returned is hold it
                        back on the final rent payments.

                        The landlord will likely threaten you (or not) but by the time it gets
                        to court, you will be moved out and owed the refund of the deposit you
                        used for rent, so there is no damage.

                        And, they may appeal to your honesty in upholding your agreement (been
                        there) but in the end, they have no intention of honoring theirs (seen it).

                        suelto

                        On 8/1/2012 12:20 PM, Ellie Wharton wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > It is my understanding that landlords must place a rental deposit in a
                        > special account, which is actually a government account, so that it is
                        > readily available at the end of the lease. You can check with the group
                        > ADECO which has information on consumer rights.
                        > Ellie
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        > *From:* Lynn Huber <elbsmca@...>
                        > *To:* "Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com"
                        > <Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com>
                        > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 1, 2012 8:57 AM
                        > *Subject:* Re: [Gringos_in_David_Panama] Tenant's rights
                        >
                        > Dear Raquel,
                        > You must be joking. Being able to take advantage of a house owner's
                        > ignorance of law, and legally steal their house from them, is hardly
                        > what most people would see as a "great benefit" of living in Panama.
                        > Always,
                        > Lynn
                        >
                        > *From:* Raquel Frame <raquelframe@...>
                        > *To:* Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com
                        > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 1, 2012 9:27 AM
                        > *Subject:* Re: [Gringos_in_David_Panama] Tenant's rights
                        >
                        > Without a lease and after 4 years you can declare right of possession
                        > and own the house and land that it sits on this is a great benefit of
                        > living in Panama.
                        > Best of luck.
                        > Raquel
                        > On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 8:18 AM, suelto <suelto@...
                        > <mailto:suelto@...>> wrote:
                        >
                        > __
                        > Landlords are required, but never do.
                        >
                        > ALWAYS, use your deposit as last month's rent payment.
                        >
                        >
                        > On 8/1/2012 4:21 AM, KAREN wrote:
                        > > I would like to ask a question about the rights of tenants when
                        > no lease is present.
                        > >
                        > > Basically, I would like to know if a landlord is required to
                        > return a security deposit when a 30 day notice has been given. The
                        > rental agent is saying she does not think I will be given my money back.
                        > >
                        > > Gracias,
                        > > Karen
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ------------------------------------
                        > >
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --
                        > Raquel Frame
                        > Work e-mail: RaquelFrame@... <mailto:RaquelFrame@...>
                        > +1 (202) 657 5414 (USA Skype Phone-World Access) Skype ID: Raquel.Frame
                        > +31 (20) 894-3686 (The Netherlands Office Phone-World Access)
                        > +1 (225) 288 8496 (USA Cellphone-Limited Access)
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Karen Rall
                        My problem is that I am only here a month but gave a full month s deposit - so you are saying that in order to recoup, I will have to stay a second month and
                        Message 11 of 17 , Aug 1, 2012
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                          My problem is that I am only here a month but gave a full month's deposit - so you are saying that in order to recoup, I will have to stay a second month and use those funds up. 

                          I gave notice after 12 days of being here - and advised I would give a full 30 days from that date, be financially responsible for that time to be fair.  I am a landlord in Fl and conducted myself as I would expect there if I were to rent to someone without a lease.  A lease was discussed when I found the place, but was never presented.

                          Karen

                          --- On Wed, 8/1/12, Ellie Wharton <author_35244@...> wrote:

                          From: Ellie Wharton <author_35244@...>
                          Subject: Re: [Gringos_in_David_Panama] Tenant's rights
                          To: "Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com" <Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com>
                          Date: Wednesday, August 1, 2012, 1:20 PM

                           

                          It is my understanding that landlords must place a rental deposit in a special account, which is actually a government account, so that it is readily available at the end of the lease. You can check with the group ADECO which has information on consumer rights.
                           
                          Ellie
                           
                           
                           


                          From: Lynn Huber <elbsmca@...>
                          To: "Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com" <Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2012 8:57 AM
                          Subject: Re: [Gringos_in_David_Panama] Tenant's rights

                           
                          Dear Raquel,
                           
                          You must be joking. Being able to take advantage of a house owner's ignorance of law, and legally steal their house from them, is hardly what most people would see as a "great benefit" of living in Panama.
                           
                          Always,
                          Lynn

                          From: Raquel Frame <raquelframe@...>
                          To: Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2012 9:27 AM
                          Subject: Re: [Gringos_in_David_Panama] Tenant's rights

                           
                          Without a lease and after 4 years you can declare right of possession and own the house and land that it sits on this is a great benefit of living in Panama. 
                           
                          Best of luck.
                           
                          Raquel
                          On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 8:18 AM, suelto <suelto@...> wrote:
                           
                          Landlords are required, but never do.

                          ALWAYS, use your deposit as last month's rent payment.


                          On 8/1/2012 4:21 AM, KAREN wrote:
                          > I would like to ask a question about the rights of tenants when no lease is present.
                          >
                          > Basically, I would like to know if a landlord is required to return a security deposit when a 30 day notice has been given. The rental agent is saying she does not think I will be given my money back.
                          >
                          > Gracias,
                          > Karen
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >




                          --
                          Raquel Frame
                          Work e-mail: RaquelFrame@...
                          +1 (202) 657 5414 (USA Skype Phone-World Access) Skype ID: Raquel.Frame
                          +31 (20) 894-3686 (The Netherlands Office Phone-World Access)
                          +1 (225) 288 8496 (USA Cellphone-Limited Access)





                        • Raquel Frame
                          Karen I should have asked for more information before throwing in my two cents. I was not aware that you were here only amonth. Panama is not a first world
                          Message 12 of 17 , Aug 1, 2012
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                            Karen

                            I should have asked for more information before throwing in my two cents.  I was not aware that you were here only amonth.  Panama is not a first world country like the USA.  It barely rates as a third world country.  Many still look at foreigners as a cash cow.  You have three choices wait for a refund.  Go through legal channels.  Go home after tout stay in Panama andsrite it off as an experience.

                            I am sorry for your situation I wish you the best.  Try to enjoy the rest of your stay in Panama.

                            Love

                            R
                            On Wednesday, August 1, 2012, Karen Rall <krall1720@...> wrote:
                            >  
                            >
                            > My problem is that I am only here a month but gave a full month's deposit - so you are saying that in order to recoup, I will have to stay a second month and use those funds up. 
                            >
                            > I gave notice after 12 days of being here - and advised I would give a full 30 days from that date, be financially responsible for that time to be fair.  I am a landlord in Fl and conducted myself as I would expect there if I were to rent to someone without a lease.  A lease was discussed when I found the place, but was never presented.
                            >
                            > Karen
                            >
                            > --- On Wed, 8/1/12, Ellie Wharton <author_35244@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > From: Ellie Wharton <author_35244@...>
                            > Subject: Re: [Gringos_in_David_Panama] Tenant's rights
                            > To: "Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com" <Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com>
                            > Date: Wednesday, August 1, 2012, 1:20 PM
                            >
                            >  
                            >
                            > It is my understanding that landlords must place a rental deposit in a special account, which is actually a government account, so that it is readily available at the end of the lease. You can check with the group ADECO which has information on consumer rights.
                            >  
                            > Ellie
                            >  
                            >  
                            >  
                            > ________________________________
                            > From: Lynn Huber <elbsmca@...>
                            > To: "Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com" <Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com>
                            > Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2012 8:57 AM
                            > Subject: Re: [Gringos_in_David_Panama] Tenant's rights
                            >
                            >  
                            > Dear Raquel,
                            >  
                            > You must be joking. Being able to take advantage of a house owner's ignorance of law, and legally steal their house from them, is hardly what most people would see as a "great benefit" of living in Panama.
                            >  
                            > Always,
                            > Lynn
                            > From: Raquel Frame <raquelframe@...>
                            > To: Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2012 9:27 AM
                            > Subject: Re: [Gringos_in_David_Panama] Tenant's rights
                            >
                            >  
                            > Without a lease and after 4 years you can declare right of possession and own the house and land that it sits on this is a great benefit of living in Panama. 
                            >  
                            > Best of luck.
                            >  
                            > Raquel
                            > On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 8:18 AM, suelto <suelto@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >  
                            > Landlords are required, but never do.
                            >
                            > ALWAYS, use your deposit as last month's rent payment.
                            >
                            > On 8/1/2012 4:21 AM, KAREN wrote:
                            >> I would like to ask a question about the rights of tenants when no lease is present.
                            >>
                            >> Basically, I would like to know if a landlord is required to return a security deposit when a 30 day notice has been given. The rental agent is saying she does not think I will be given my money back.
                            >>
                            >> Gracias,
                            >> Karen
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> ------------------------------------
                            >>
                            >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --
                            > Raquel Frame
                            > Work e-mail: RaquelFrame@...
                            > +1 (202) 657 5414 (USA Skype Phone-World Access) Skype ID: Raquel.Frame
                            > +31 (20) 894-3686 (The Netherlands Office Phone-World Access)
                            > +1 (225) 288 8496 (USA Cellphone-Limited Access)
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >

                            --
                            Raquel Frame
                            Work e-mail: RaquelFrame@...
                            +1 (202) 657 5414 (USA Skype Phone-World Access) Skype ID: Raquel.Frame
                            +31 (20) 894-3686 (The Netherlands Office Phone-World Access)
                            +1 (225) 288 8496 (USA Cellphone-Limited Access)

                          • Lorraine Katena
                            Karen...May I suggest a Zen approach...think of it as a lesson in letting go of attachment... Upon my arrival in Paris on the 10th of July, I discovered that
                            Message 13 of 17 , Aug 1, 2012
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                              Karen...May I suggest a Zen approach...think of it as a lesson in letting go of attachment... Upon my arrival in Paris on the 10th of July, I discovered that my room in a private home that I rented and paid for online, did not exist.  I had the choice of being very angry and frustrated with this thief...and filled with self-recrimination for my stupidity..or letting it go and making the most of my situation.  It was cold and rainy in Paris..I had flown all night from the states and was very tired..  With the help of some wonderful people at a cafe, I secured a lovely hotel room at a discounted rate and spent the next 4 days people-watching from the cafe!  It was wonderful!  I sent an email to the person who had scammed me and offered my forgiveness for their travesty.  And since then, my time here in southern France remains truly magical.  Namaste.  Lorraine

                              From: Raquel Frame <raquelframe@...>
                              To: "Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com" <Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2012 7:05 PM
                              Subject: Re: [Gringos_in_David_Panama] (unknown)

                               

                              Karen

                              I should have asked for more information before throwing in my two cents.  I was not aware that you were here only amonth.  Panama is not a first world country like the USA.  It barely rates as a third world country.  Many still look at foreigners as a cash cow.  You have three choices wait for a refund.  Go through legal channels.  Go home after tout stay in Panama andsrite it off as an experience.

                              I am sorry for your situation I wish you the best.  Try to enjoy the rest of your stay in Panama.

                              Love

                              R
                              On Wednesday, August 1, 2012, Karen Rall <krall1720@...> wrote:
                              >  
                              >
                              > My problem is that I am only here a month but gave a full month's deposit - so you are saying that in order to recoup, I will have to stay a second month and use those funds up. 
                              >
                              > I gave notice after 12 days of being here - and advised I would give a full 30 days from that date, be financially responsible for that time to be fair.  I am a landlord in Fl and conducted myself as I would expect there if I were to rent to someone without a lease.  A lease was discussed when I found the place, but was never presented.
                              >
                              > Karen
                              >
                              > --- On Wed, 8/1/12, Ellie Wharton <author_35244@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > From: Ellie Wharton <author_35244@...>
                              > Subject: Re: [Gringos_in_David_Panama] Tenant's rights
                              > To: "Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com" <Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com>
                              > Date: Wednesday, August 1, 2012, 1:20 PM
                              >
                              >  
                              >
                              > It is my understanding that landlords must place a rental deposit in a special account, which is actually a government account, so that it is readily available at the end of the lease. You can check with the group ADECO which has information on consumer rights.
                              >  
                              > Ellie
                              >  
                              >  
                              >  
                              > ________________________________
                              > From: Lynn Huber <elbsmca@...>
                              > To: "Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com" <Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com>
                              > Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2012 8:57 AM
                              > Subject: Re: [Gringos_in_David_Panama] Tenant's rights
                              >
                              >  
                              > Dear Raquel,
                              >  
                              > You must be joking. Being able to take advantage of a house owner's ignorance of law, and legally steal their house from them, is hardly what most people would see as a "great benefit" of living in Panama.
                              >  
                              > Always,
                              > Lynn
                              > From: Raquel Frame <raquelframe@...>
                              > To: Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2012 9:27 AM
                              > Subject: Re: [Gringos_in_David_Panama] Tenant's rights
                              >
                              >  
                              > Without a lease and after 4 years you can declare right of possession and own the house and land that it sits on this is a great benefit of living in Panama. 
                              >  
                              > Best of luck.
                              >  
                              > Raquel
                              > On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 8:18 AM, suelto <suelto@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >  
                              > Landlords are required, but never do.
                              >
                              > ALWAYS, use your deposit as last month's rent payment.
                              >
                              > On 8/1/2012 4:21 AM, KAREN wrote:
                              >> I would like to ask a question about the rights of tenants when no lease is present.
                              >>
                              >> Basically, I would like to know if a landlord is required to return a security deposit when a 30 day notice has been given. The rental agent is saying she does not think I will be given my money back.
                              >>
                              >> Gracias,
                              >> Karen
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> ------------------------------------
                              >>
                              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --
                              > Raquel Frame
                              > Work e-mail: RaquelFrame@...
                              > +1 (202) 657 5414 (USA Skype Phone-World Access) Skype ID: Raquel.Frame
                              > +31 (20) 894-3686 (The Netherlands Office Phone-World Access)
                              > +1 (225) 288 8496 (USA Cellphone-Limited Access)
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >

                              --
                              Raquel Frame
                              Work e-mail: RaquelFrame@...
                              +1 (202) 657 5414 (USA Skype Phone-World Access) Skype ID: Raquel.Frame
                              +31 (20) 894-3686 (The Netherlands Office Phone-World Access)
                              +1 (225) 288 8496 (USA Cellphone-Limited Access)



                            • susanagg1
                              You really ought to put JOKE in parenthesis when you post stuff like this .. there are folks out here who believe anything they read!
                              Message 14 of 17 , Aug 2, 2012
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                                You really ought to put JOKE in parenthesis when you post stuff like this .. there are folks out here who believe anything they read!


                                --- In Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com, Raquel Frame <raquelframe@...> wrote:
                                >inpA
                                > Without a lease and after 4 years you can declare right of possession and
                                > own the house and land that it sits on this is a great benefit of living in
                                > Panama.
                                >
                                > Best of luck.
                                >
                                > Raquel
                                > On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 8:18 AM, suelto <suelto@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > > **
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Landlords are required, but never do.
                                > >
                                > > ALWAYS, use your deposit as last month's rent payment.
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > On 8/1/2012 4:21 AM, KAREN wrote:
                                > > > I would like to ask a question about the rights of tenants when no lease
                                > > is present.
                                > > >
                                > > > Basically, I would like to know if a landlord is required to return a
                                > > security deposit when a 30 day notice has been given. The rental agent is
                                > > saying she does not think I will be given my money back.
                                > > >
                                > > > Gracias,
                                > > > Karen
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > ------------------------------------
                                > > >
                                > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --
                                > Raquel Frame
                                > Work e-mail: RaquelFrame@...
                                > +1 (202) 657 5414 (USA Skype Phone-World Access) Skype ID: Raquel.Frame
                                > +31 (20) 894-3686 (The Netherlands Office Phone-World Access)
                                > +1 (225) 288 8496 (USA Cellphone-Limited Access)
                                >
                              • ron
                                Yes because idiots like me believe it. From: Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of susanagg1
                                Message 15 of 17 , Aug 2, 2012
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                                  Yes because idiots like me believe it.

                                   

                                  From: Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of susanagg1
                                  Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 8:30 AM
                                  To: Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [Gringos_in_David_Panama] Re: Tenant's rights

                                   

                                   

                                  You really ought to put JOKE in parenthesis when you post stuff like this .. there are folks out here who believe anything they read!

                                  --- In Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com, Raquel Frame <raquelframe@...> wrote:
                                  >inpA
                                  > Without a lease and after 4 years you can declare right of possession and
                                  > own the house and land that it sits on this is a great benefit of living in
                                  > Panama.
                                  >
                                  > Best of luck.
                                  >
                                  > Raquel
                                  > On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 8:18 AM, suelto <suelto@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > **
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Landlords are required, but never do.
                                  > >
                                  > > ALWAYS, use your deposit as last month's rent payment.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > On 8/1/2012 4:21 AM, KAREN wrote:
                                  > > > I would like to ask a question about the rights of tenants when no lease
                                  > > is present.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Basically, I would like to know if a landlord is required to return a
                                  > > security deposit when a 30 day notice has been given. The rental agent is
                                  > > saying she does not think I will be given my money back.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Gracias,
                                  > > > Karen
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > ------------------------------------
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --
                                  > Raquel Frame
                                  > Work e-mail: RaquelFrame@...
                                  > +1 (202) 657 5414 (USA Skype Phone-World Access) Skype ID: Raquel.Frame
                                  > +31 (20) 894-3686 (The Netherlands Office Phone-World Access)
                                  > +1 (225) 288 8496 (USA Cellphone-Limited Access)
                                  >

                                • susanagg1
                                  Well, don t because there is no such law and its never happened. Like most countries, Panama has a prescriptive rights law, which allows you to claim land
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Aug 2, 2012
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                                    Well, don't because there is no such law and its never happened. Like most countries, Panama has a prescriptive rights law, which allows you to claim land that you have openly, notoriously and hostilely occupied as if you were the owner for a specific period of time, which I believe is fifteen years (could be more or less). Typically this occurs when families or groups of families occupy rural land owned by absentee owners for decades or even generations. That is why you need to visually inspect every inch of land before buying it to look for signs of human occupation, rustic homes, cattle trails, etc.

                                    --- In Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com, "ron" <ronthereeltor@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Yes because idiots like me believe it.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > From: Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com
                                    > [mailto:Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of susanagg1
                                    > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 8:30 AM
                                    > To: Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Subject: [Gringos_in_David_Panama] Re: Tenant's rights
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > You really ought to put JOKE in parenthesis when you post stuff like this ..
                                    > there are folks out here who believe anything they read!
                                    >
                                    > --- In Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com
                                    > <mailto:Gringos_in_David_Panama%40yahoogroups.com> , Raquel Frame
                                    > <raquelframe@> wrote:
                                    > >inpA
                                    > > Without a lease and after 4 years you can declare right of possession and
                                    > > own the house and land that it sits on this is a great benefit of living
                                    > in
                                    > > Panama.
                                    > >
                                    > > Best of luck.
                                    > >
                                    > > Raquel
                                    > > On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 8:18 AM, suelto <suelto@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > > **
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Landlords are required, but never do.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > ALWAYS, use your deposit as last month's rent payment.
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > On 8/1/2012 4:21 AM, KAREN wrote:
                                    > > > > I would like to ask a question about the rights of tenants when no
                                    > lease
                                    > > > is present.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Basically, I would like to know if a landlord is required to return a
                                    > > > security deposit when a 30 day notice has been given. The rental agent
                                    > is
                                    > > > saying she does not think I will be given my money back.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Gracias,
                                    > > > > Karen
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > ------------------------------------
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > --
                                    > > Raquel Frame
                                    > > Work e-mail: RaquelFrame@
                                    > > +1 (202) 657 5414 (USA Skype Phone-World Access) Skype ID: Raquel.Frame
                                    > > +31 (20) 894-3686 (The Netherlands Office Phone-World Access)
                                    > > +1 (225) 288 8496 (USA Cellphone-Limited Access)
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • susanagg1
                                    Well, don t because there is no such law and its never happened. Like most countries, Panama has a prescriptive rights law, which allows you to claim land
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Aug 2, 2012
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Well, don't because there is no such law and its never happened. Like most countries, Panama has a prescriptive rights law, which allows you to claim land that you have openly, notoriously and hostilely occupied as if you were the owner for a specific period of time, which I believe is fifteen years (could be more or less). Typically this occurs when families or groups of families occupy rural land owned by absentee owners for decades or even generations. That is why you need to visually inspect every inch of land before buying it to look for signs of human occupation, rustic homes, cattle trails, etc.

                                      --- In Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com, "ron" <ronthereeltor@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Yes because idiots like me believe it.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > From: Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com
                                      > [mailto:Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of susanagg1
                                      > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 8:30 AM
                                      > To: Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subject: [Gringos_in_David_Panama] Re: Tenant's rights
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > You really ought to put JOKE in parenthesis when you post stuff like this ..
                                      > there are folks out here who believe anything they read!
                                      >
                                      > --- In Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com
                                      > <mailto:Gringos_in_David_Panama%40yahoogroups.com> , Raquel Frame
                                      > <raquelframe@> wrote:
                                      > >inpA
                                      > > Without a lease and after 4 years you can declare right of possession and
                                      > > own the house and land that it sits on this is a great benefit of living
                                      > in
                                      > > Panama.
                                      > >
                                      > > Best of luck.
                                      > >
                                      > > Raquel
                                      > > On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 8:18 AM, suelto <suelto@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > > **
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Landlords are required, but never do.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > ALWAYS, use your deposit as last month's rent payment.
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > On 8/1/2012 4:21 AM, KAREN wrote:
                                      > > > > I would like to ask a question about the rights of tenants when no
                                      > lease
                                      > > > is present.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Basically, I would like to know if a landlord is required to return a
                                      > > > security deposit when a 30 day notice has been given. The rental agent
                                      > is
                                      > > > saying she does not think I will be given my money back.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Gracias,
                                      > > > > Karen
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > ------------------------------------
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > --
                                      > > Raquel Frame
                                      > > Work e-mail: RaquelFrame@
                                      > > +1 (202) 657 5414 (USA Skype Phone-World Access) Skype ID: Raquel.Frame
                                      > > +31 (20) 894-3686 (The Netherlands Office Phone-World Access)
                                      > > +1 (225) 288 8496 (USA Cellphone-Limited Access)
                                      > >
                                      >
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