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Re: ROP Titling

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  • Ray
    Getting ROP property titled has been relatively easy for me to do. I have done it in the Bocas as well as other provinces in Panama. What is the most time
    Message 1 of 24 , Jul 1, 2010
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      Getting ROP property titled has been relatively easy for me to do. I have done it in the Bocas as well as other provinces in Panama. What is the most time consuming is getting the curent owner's docts in order and getting a current survey done. Most property had never had a formal survey done or the numbers are all wrong, sometimes to your benefit. I assemble the packs and I submit the deals personaly with your regional Rep in CATASTRO, in Amador.

      Not at any point in my dealings had any goverment official in the city has asked for monies.

      CATASTRO is issuing titles quicker than concessions, for example, there is a back log of 1500 deals awaiting approval for concession in CATASTRO for Bocas Del Toro alone!

      Patience is something you need to keep in mind as they are averaging 6 months on title approvals.

      Be careful in who you have submit your paperwork, they have to do followups with CATASTRO, because CATASTRO will not call the attorney at all, whether approved or not, and there are many deals that I have seen that were not approved and the applicant never knew, usually for something that could of been addressed ahead of time.

      Is CATASTRO lazy in that regard? No. They do not have the man power to call everyone about their deals, I've seen their case loads and it is huge.

      In regards to Law 80(applies only to island and coastal property), it is fantastic, but CATASTRO will be first to tell you that alot of attorneys do not know what they are doing when applying for it on your behalf, they are used to submitting a stack of crap and then nothing.

      Of course you pay in the end.

      Just here to help,

      Capt. Ray

      p.s.
      Who is telling people that David is getting an international airport? That is not true at all, David is slated and budgeted for renovation only. Penonome is approved for an International airport by the Government and FAA(in regards to the route and airport symbol, PME).

      --- In Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com, Ronaldo DIAS <captainronaldo@...> wrote:
      >
      > Just how many parcels of land have you titled from ROP Land?
      >
      > Any thing is possible in Panama if you throw enough money at it!
      >
      > Apparently you do not deal with the Reforma or Catastro, which by the
      > control all or most ROP land in Panama!!
      >
      > You only mention Laws and Regulations never the Government entities that
      > administers these laws, Regulations, and Rules!
      >
      > My only struggle was the time I spent actually getting ROP Land to Land
      > Title.
      >
      > I have spent many hours with both the Reforma and Catastro, Actually taking
      > ROP land to Titled Land!
      >
      > Until you actually deal with the process and get your land Title, you have
      > not dealt with the people from these entities that administers, inspects,
      > signs and stamps your Survey and all your related forms to be presented to
      > the Public Register.
      >
      > They decide in the end if your ROP Land will be Titled, the why and how!
      >
      > These entities change the procedure and process on almost a weekly basis.
      >
      > So, yes there are laws and Regulations(New & old), after all this is Panama
      > where the true rule of law is always Followed to the letter!
      >
      > Unfortunately not to the letter of the law!
      >
      > Case closed!
      >
      > If you have built on ROP land without assuming title you are just a sitting
      > duck!
      >
      > Yes, ROP land is not Free period!
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 9:36 AM, <ray@...> wrote:
      >
      > >
      > >
      > > I think most of us now understand that getting involved in ROP land is
      > > dangerous, complicated and not for the timid at heart. Time to move on
      > > to next subject.
      > >
      > > If anyone wants further information on ROP land, please contact the
      > > knowledgeable contributor of your choice directly.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • susanagg1
      I take it from your message that you have obtained title for your ROP under Law 80, and you did so without using a lawyer, correct? Were your rights in your
      Message 2 of 24 , Jul 1, 2010
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        I take it from your message that you have obtained title for your ROP under Law 80, and you did so without using a lawyer, correct? Were your rights in your personal name? I ask because the administrative regulations require that an application for titling ROP under Law 80 is required to be submitted by a lawyer if it is submitted on behalf of a legal person (corporation or foundation).
        And how long did it take between the time you submitted your documentation to the time that your new title was registered in the public registry?
        And since you have titled ROP under Law 80 both in Bocas and other provinces, was there a difference in the amount of time it took from submission to Public Registry registration in Bocas as opposed to the other areas where you titled your ROP?
        And, did any of the parcels you titled under Law 80 have homes on them, and if so, did you submit an appraisal of your own or did the Catastro people do their own appraisals, and if the latter, did you consider their determinations of value to be reasonable?


        --- In Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <meetmeinpanama@...> wrote:
        >
        > Getting ROP property titled has been relatively easy for me to do. I have done it in the Bocas as well as other provinces in Panama. What is the most time consuming is getting the curent owner's docts in order and getting a current survey done. Most property had never had a formal survey done or the numbers are all wrong, sometimes to your benefit. I assemble the packs and I submit the deals personaly with your regional Rep in CATASTRO, in Amador.
        >
        > Not at any point in my dealings had any goverment official in the city has asked for monies.
        >
        > CATASTRO is issuing titles quicker than concessions, for example, there is a back log of 1500 deals awaiting approval for concession in CATASTRO for Bocas Del Toro alone!
        >
        > Patience is something you need to keep in mind as they are averaging 6 months on title approvals.
        >
        > Be careful in who you have submit your paperwork, they have to do followups with CATASTRO, because CATASTRO will not call the attorney at all, whether approved or not, and there are many deals that I have seen that were not approved and the applicant never knew, usually for something that could of been addressed ahead of time.
        >
        > Is CATASTRO lazy in that regard? No. They do not have the man power to call everyone about their deals, I've seen their case loads and it is huge.
        >
        > In regards to Law 80(applies only to island and coastal property), it is fantastic, but CATASTRO will be first to tell you that alot of attorneys do not know what they are doing when applying for it on your behalf, they are used to submitting a stack of crap and then nothing.
        >
        > Of course you pay in the end.
        >
        > Just here to help,
        >
        > Capt. Ray
        >
        > p.s.
        > Who is telling people that David is getting an international airport? That is not true at all, David is slated and budgeted for renovation only. Penonome is approved for an International airport by the Government and FAA(in regards to the route and airport symbol, PME).
        >
      • Ray Whitlow III Herrera
        Trade secret ________________________________ From: susanagg1 To: Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, July 1, 2010 3:04:50
        Message 3 of 24 , Jul 1, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          Trade secret


          From: susanagg1 <susanagg2@...>
          To: Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thu, July 1, 2010 3:04:50 PM
          Subject: [Gringos_in_David_Panama] Re: ROP Titling

           

          I take it from your message that you have obtained title for your ROP under Law 80, and you did so without using a lawyer, correct? Were your rights in your personal name? I ask because the administrative regulations require that an application for titling ROP under Law 80 is required to be submitted by a lawyer if it is submitted on behalf of a legal person (corporation or foundation).
          And how long did it take between the time you submitted your documentation to the time that your new title was registered in the public registry?
          And since you have titled ROP under Law 80 both in Bocas and other provinces, was there a difference in the amount of time it took from submission to Public Registry registration in Bocas as opposed to the other areas where you titled your ROP?
          And, did any of the parcels you titled under Law 80 have homes on them, and if so, did you submit an appraisal of your own or did the Catastro people do their own appraisals, and if the latter, did you consider their determinations of value to be reasonable?

          --- In Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <meetmeinpanama@...> wrote:
          >
          > Getting ROP property titled has been relatively easy for me to do. I have done it in the Bocas as well as other provinces in Panama. What is the most time consuming is getting the curent owner's docts in order and getting a current survey done. Most property had never had a formal survey done or the numbers are all wrong, sometimes to your benefit. I assemble the packs and I submit the deals personaly with your regional Rep in CATASTRO, in Amador.
          >
          > Not at any point in my dealings had any goverment official in the city has asked for monies.
          >
          > CATASTRO is issuing titles quicker than concessions, for example, there is a back log of 1500 deals awaiting approval for concession in CATASTRO for Bocas Del Toro alone!
          >
          > Patience is something you need to keep in mind as they are averaging 6 months on title approvals.
          >
          > Be careful in who you have submit your paperwork, they have to do followups with CATASTRO, because CATASTRO will not call the attorney at all, whether approved or not, and there are many deals that I have seen that were not approved and the applicant never knew, usually for something that could of been addressed ahead of time.
          >
          > Is CATASTRO lazy in that regard? No. They do not have the man power to call everyone about their deals, I've seen their case loads and it is huge.
          >
          > In regards to Law 80(applies only to island and coastal property), it is fantastic, but CATASTRO will be first to tell you that alot of attorneys do not know what they are doing when applying for it on your behalf, they are used to submitting a stack of crap and then nothing.
          >
          > Of course you pay in the end.
          >
          > Just here to help,
          >
          > Capt. Ray
          >
          > p.s.
          > Who is telling people that David is getting an international airport? That is not true at all, David is slated and budgeted for renovation only. Penonome is approved for an International airport by the Government and FAA(in regards to the route and airport symbol, PME).
          >

          ra

        • Ronaldo DIAS
          Ray, Thank you for stating the obvious when it comes to the Costs of Titling ROP Lands! The truth is there are costs which will still prohibit most Panamanians
          Message 4 of 24 , Jul 2, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Ray,

            Thank you for stating the obvious when it comes to the Costs of Titling ROP Lands!

            The truth is there are costs which will still prohibit most Panamanians from titling their ROP lands!

            Yes, you do not need and attorney they only drive the costs up(small parcels).

            I have never been asked to pay any monies to any employee or official here in Panama!

            If it it too good to be true, it is too good to be true!  



            On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Ray <meetmeinpanama@...> wrote:
             

            Getting ROP property titled has been relatively easy for me to do. I have done it in the Bocas as well as other provinces in Panama. What is the most time consuming is getting the curent owner's docts in order and getting a current survey done. Most property had never had a formal survey done or the numbers are all wrong, sometimes to your benefit. I assemble the packs and I submit the deals personaly with your regional Rep in CATASTRO, in Amador.

            Not at any point in my dealings had any goverment official in the city has asked for monies.

            CATASTRO is issuing titles quicker than concessions, for example, there is a back log of 1500 deals awaiting approval for concession in CATASTRO for Bocas Del Toro alone!

            Patience is something you need to keep in mind as they are averaging 6 months on title approvals.

            Be careful in who you have submit your paperwork, they have to do followups with CATASTRO, because CATASTRO will not call the attorney at all, whether approved or not, and there are many deals that I have seen that were not approved and the applicant never knew, usually for something that could of been addressed ahead of time.

            Is CATASTRO lazy in that regard? No. They do not have the man power to call everyone about their deals, I've seen their case loads and it is huge.

            In regards to Law 80(applies only to island and coastal property), it is fantastic, but CATASTRO will be first to tell you that alot of attorneys do not know what they are doing when applying for it on your behalf, they are used to submitting a stack of crap and then nothing.

            Of course you pay in the end.

            Just here to help,

            Capt. Ray

            p.s.
            Who is telling people that David is getting an international airport? That is not true at all, David is slated and budgeted for renovation only. Penonome is approved for an International airport by the Government and FAA(in regards to the route and airport symbol, PME).



            --- In Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com, Ronaldo DIAS <captainronaldo@...> wrote:
            >
            > Just how many parcels of land have you titled from ROP Land?
            >
            > Any thing is possible in Panama if you throw enough money at it!
            >
            > Apparently you do not deal with the Reforma or Catastro, which by the
            > control all or most ROP land in Panama!!
            >
            > You only mention Laws and Regulations never the Government entities that
            > administers these laws, Regulations, and Rules!
            >
            > My only struggle was the time I spent actually getting ROP Land to Land
            > Title.
            >
            > I have spent many hours with both the Reforma and Catastro, Actually taking
            > ROP land to Titled Land!
            >
            > Until you actually deal with the process and get your land Title, you have
            > not dealt with the people from these entities that administers, inspects,
            > signs and stamps your Survey and all your related forms to be presented to
            > the Public Register.
            >
            > They decide in the end if your ROP Land will be Titled, the why and how!
            >
            > These entities change the procedure and process on almost a weekly basis.
            >
            > So, yes there are laws and Regulations(New & old), after all this is Panama
            > where the true rule of law is always Followed to the letter!
            >
            > Unfortunately not to the letter of the law!
            >
            > Case closed!
            >
            > If you have built on ROP land without assuming title you are just a sitting
            > duck!
            >
            > Yes, ROP land is not Free period!
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 9:36 AM, <ray@...> wrote:
            >
            > >
            > >
            > > I think most of us now understand that getting involved in ROP land is
            > > dangerous, complicated and not for the timid at heart. Time to move on
            > > to next subject.
            > >
            > > If anyone wants further information on ROP land, please contact the
            > > knowledgeable contributor of your choice directly.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >


          • Ray Whitlow III Herrera
            Tienes razon. What I have seen that prohibits Panamanians the most is family members. Como sabes, when a Panamanian dies, after he is in the ground, the tears
            Message 5 of 24 , Jul 2, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              Tienes razon.
              What I have seen that prohibits Panamanians the most is family members.
              Como sabes, when a Panamanian dies, after he is in the ground, the tears dry up and the fighting begins over property, since most folks do not have wills. Usually the strongest(meaning the one with the most local influence and money) relative wins. I know of 3 cases where it was an in law that beat the children.
              Nuestro cultural.


              From: Ronaldo DIAS <captainronaldo@...>
              To: Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Fri, July 2, 2010 1:14:49 PM
              Subject: Re: [Gringos_in_David_Panama] Re: ROP Titling

               

              Ray,

              Thank you for stating the obvious when it comes to the Costs of Titling ROP Lands!

              The truth is there are costs which will still prohibit most Panamanians from titling their ROP lands!

              Yes, you do not need and attorney they only drive the costs up(small parcels).

              I have never been asked to pay any monies to any employee or official here in Panama!

              If it it too good to be true, it is too good to be true!  



              On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Ray <meetmeinpanama@ yahoo.com> wrote:
               

              Getting ROP property titled has been relatively easy for me to do. I have done it in the Bocas as well as other provinces in Panama. What is the most time consuming is getting the curent owner's docts in order and getting a current survey done. Most property had never had a formal survey done or the numbers are all wrong, sometimes to your benefit. I assemble the packs and I submit the deals personaly with your regional Rep in CATASTRO, in Amador.

              Not at any point in my dealings had any goverment official in the city has asked for monies.

              CATASTRO is issuing titles quicker than concessions, for example, there is a back log of 1500 deals awaiting approval for concession in CATASTRO for Bocas Del Toro alone!

              Patience is something you need to keep in mind as they are averaging 6 months on title approvals.

              Be careful in who you have submit your paperwork, they have to do followups with CATASTRO, because CATASTRO will not call the attorney at all, whether approved or not, and there are many deals that I have seen that were not approved and the applicant never knew, usually for something that could of been addressed ahead of time.

              Is CATASTRO lazy in that regard? No. They do not have the man power to call everyone about their deals, I've seen their case loads and it is huge.

              In regards to Law 80(applies only to island and coastal property), it is fantastic, but CATASTRO will be first to tell you that alot of attorneys do not know what they are doing when applying for it on your behalf, they are used to submitting a stack of crap and then nothing.

              Of course you pay in the end.

              Just here to help,

              Capt. Ray

              p.s.
              Who is telling people that David is getting an international airport? That is not true at all, David is slated and budgeted for renovation only. Penonome is approved for an International airport by the Government and FAA(in regards to the route and airport symbol, PME).



              --- In Gringos_in_David_ Panama@yahoogrou ps.com, Ronaldo DIAS <captainronaldo@ ...> wrote:
              >
              > Just how many parcels of land have you titled from ROP Land?
              >
              > Any thing is possible in Panama if you throw enough money at it!
              >
              > Apparently you do not deal with the Reforma or Catastro, which by the
              > control all or most ROP land in Panama!!
              >
              > You only mention Laws and Regulations never the Government entities that
              > administers these laws, Regulations, and Rules!
              >
              > My only struggle was the time I spent actually getting ROP Land to Land
              > Title.
              >
              > I have spent many hours with both the Reforma and Catastro, Actually taking
              > ROP land to Titled Land!
              >
              > Until you actually deal with the process and get your land Title, you have
              > not dealt with the people from these entities that administers, inspects,
              > signs and stamps your Survey and all your related forms to be presented to
              > the Public Register.
              >
              > They decide in the end if your ROP Land will be Titled, the why and how!
              >
              > These entities change the procedure and process on almost a weekly basis.
              >
              > So, yes there are laws and Regulations( New & old), after all this is Panama
              > where the true rule of law is always Followed to the letter!
              >
              > Unfortunately not to the letter of the law!
              >
              > Case closed!
              >
              > If you have built on ROP land without assuming title you are just a sitting
              > duck!
              >
              > Yes, ROP land is not Free period!
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 9:36 AM, <ray@...> wrote:
              >
              > >
              > >
              > > I think most of us now understand that getting involved in ROP land is
              > > dangerous, complicated and not for the timid at heart. Time to move on
              > > to next subject.
              > >
              > > If anyone wants further information on ROP land, please contact the
              > > knowledgeable contributor of your choice directly.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >


              They

            • ginglucky
              I think we are all getting a bit fed up with all this. If you guys want to discuss R.O.P. Properties and all the associated conversations, chat to each other
              Message 6 of 24 , Jul 2, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                I think we are all getting a bit fed up with all this. If you guys want to discuss R.O.P. Properties and all the associated conversations, chat to each other off the board. I think I can speak for the majority of members by saying we are not interested and for those who are not thinking straight and buy right of possession property, did not do their homework before undertaking such a worthless transaction.

                --- In Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com, Ray Whitlow III Herrera <meetmeinpanama@...> wrote:
                >
                > Tienes razon.
                > What I have seen that prohibits Panamanians the most is family members.
                > Como sabes, when a Panamanian dies, after he is in the ground, the tears dry up and the fighting begins over property, since most folks do not have wills. Usually the strongest(meaning the one with the most local influence and money) relative wins. I know of 3 cases where it was an in law that beat the children.
                > Nuestro cultural.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: Ronaldo DIAS <captainronaldo@...>
                > To: Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Fri, July 2, 2010 1:14:49 PM
                > Subject: Re: [Gringos_in_David_Panama] Re: ROP Titling
                >
                >  
                > Ray,
                >
                > Thank you for stating the obvious when it comes to the Costs of Titling ROP Lands!
                >
                > The truth is there are costs which will still prohibit most Panamanians from titling their ROP lands!
                >
                > Yes, you do not need and attorney they only drive the costs up(small parcels).
                >
                > I have never been asked to pay any monies to any employee or official here in Panama!
                >
                > If it it too good to be true, it is too good to be true!  
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Ray <meetmeinpanama@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                >
                >  
                > >Getting ROP property titled has been relatively easy for me to do. I have done it in the Bocas as well as other provinces in Panama. What is the most time consuming is getting the curent owner's docts in order and getting a current survey done. Most property had never had a formal survey done or the numbers are all wrong, sometimes to your benefit. I assemble the packs and I submit the deals personaly with your regional Rep in CATASTRO, in Amador.
                > >
                > >Not at any point in my dealings had any goverment official in the city has asked for monies.
                > >
                > >CATASTRO is issuing titles quicker than concessions, for example, there is a back log of 1500 deals awaiting approval for concession in CATASTRO for Bocas Del Toro alone!
                > >
                > >Patience is something you need to keep in mind as they are averaging 6 months on title approvals.
                > >
                > >Be careful in who you have submit your paperwork, they have to do followups with CATASTRO, because CATASTRO will not call the attorney at all, whether approved or not, and there are many deals that I have seen that were not approved and the applicant never knew, usually for something that could of been addressed ahead of time.
                > >
                > >Is CATASTRO lazy in that regard? No. They do not have the man power to call everyone about their deals, I've seen their case loads and it is huge.
                > >
                > >In regards to Law 80(applies only to island and coastal property), it is fantastic, but CATASTRO will be first to tell you that alot of attorneys do not know what they are doing when applying for it on your behalf, they are used to submitting a stack of crap and then nothing.
                > >
                > >Of course you pay in the end.
                > >
                > >Just here to help,
                > >
                > >Capt. Ray
                > >
                > >p.s.
                > >Who is telling people that David is getting an international airport? That is not true at all, David is slated and budgeted for renovation only. Penonome is approved for an International airport by the Government and FAA(in regards to the route and airport symbol, PME).
                > >
                > >
                > >--- In Gringos_in_David_ Panama@yahoogrou ps.com, Ronaldo DIAS <captainronaldo@ ...> wrote:
                > >>
                > >
                > >> Just how many parcels of land have you titled from ROP Land?
                > >>
                > >> Any thing is possible in Panama if you throw enough money at it!
                > >>
                > >> Apparently you do not deal with the Reforma or Catastro, which by the
                > >> control all or most ROP land in Panama!!
                > >>
                > >> You only mention Laws and Regulations never the Government entities that
                > >> administers these laws, Regulations, and Rules!
                > >>
                > >> My only struggle was the time I spent actually getting ROP Land to Land
                > >> Title.
                > >>
                > >> I have spent many hours with both the Reforma and Catastro, Actually taking
                > >> ROP land to Titled Land!
                > >>
                > >> Until you actually deal with the process and get your land Title, you have
                > >> not dealt with the people from these entities that administers, inspects,
                > >> signs and stamps your Survey and all your related forms to be presented to
                > >> the Public Register.
                > >>
                > >> They decide in the end if your ROP Land will be Titled, the why and how!
                > >>
                > >> These entities change the procedure and process on almost a weekly basis.
                > >>
                > >> So, yes there are laws and Regulations( New & old), after all this is Panama
                > >> where the true rule of law is always Followed to the letter!
                > >>
                > >> Unfortunately not to the letter of the law!
                > >>
                > >> Case closed!
                > >>
                > >> If you have built on ROP land without assuming title you are just a sitting
                > >> duck!
                > >>
                > >> Yes, ROP land is not Free period!
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >
                > >> On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 9:36 AM, <ray@> wrote:
                > >>
                > >> >
                > >> >
                > >> > I think most of us now understand that getting involved in ROP land is
                > >> > dangerous, complicated and not for the timid at heart. Time to move on
                > >> > to next subject.
                > >> >
                > >> > If anyone wants further information on ROP land, please contact the
                > >> > knowledgeable contributor of your choice directly.
                > >> >
                > >> >
                > >> >
                > >>
                > >
                > >
                >
                > They
                >
              • Ray Whitlow III Herrera
                Huh? How many people in this group anyway(did not bother to look). ________________________________ From: ginglucky To:
                Message 7 of 24 , Jul 2, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  Huh?
                  How many people in this group anyway(did not bother to look).


                  From: ginglucky <ginglucky@...>
                  To: Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Fri, July 2, 2010 1:50:26 PM
                  Subject: [Gringos_in_David_Panama] Re: ROP Titling

                   

                  I think we are all getting a bit fed up with all this. If you guys want to discuss R.O.P. Properties and all the associated conversations, chat to each other off the board. I think I can speak for the majority of members by saying we are not interested and for those who are not thinking straight and buy right of possession property, did not do their homework before undertaking such a worthless transaction.

                  --- In Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com, Ray Whitlow III Herrera <meetmeinpanama@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Tienes razon.
                  > What I have seen that prohibits Panamanians the most is family members.
                  > Como sabes, when a Panamanian dies, after he is in the ground, the tears dry up and the fighting begins over property, since most folks do not have wills. Usually the strongest(meaning the one with the most local influence and money) relative wins. I know of 3 cases where it was an in law that beat the children.
                  > Nuestro cultural.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ________________________________
                  > From: Ronaldo DIAS <captainronaldo@...>
                  > To: Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Fri, July 2, 2010 1:14:49 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [Gringos_in_David_Panama] Re: ROP Titling
                  >
                  >  
                  > Ray,
                  >
                  > Thank you for stating the obvious when it comes to the Costs of Titling ROP Lands!
                  >
                  > The truth is there are costs which will still prohibit most Panamanians from titling their ROP lands!
                  >
                  > Yes, you do not need and attorney they only drive the costs up(small parcels).
                  >
                  > I have never been asked to pay any monies to any employee or official here in Panama!
                  >
                  > If it it too good to be true, it is too good to be true!  
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Ray <meetmeinpanama@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                  >
                  >  
                  > >Getting ROP property titled has been relatively easy for me to do. I have done it in the Bocas as well as other provinces in Panama. What is the most time consuming is getting the curent owner's docts in order and getting a current survey done. Most property had never had a formal survey done or the numbers are all wrong, sometimes to your benefit. I assemble the packs and I submit the deals personaly with your regional Rep in CATASTRO, in Amador.
                  > >
                  > >Not at any point in my dealings had any goverment official in the city has asked for monies.
                  > >
                  > >CATASTRO is issuing titles quicker than concessions, for example, there is a back log of 1500 deals awaiting approval for concession in CATASTRO for Bocas Del Toro alone!
                  > >
                  > >Patience is something you need to keep in mind as they are averaging 6 months on title approvals.
                  > >
                  > >Be careful in who you have submit your paperwork, they have to do followups with CATASTRO, because CATASTRO will not call the attorney at all, whether approved or not, and there are many deals that I have seen that were not approved and the applicant never knew, usually for something that could of been addressed ahead of time.
                  > >
                  > >Is CATASTRO lazy in that regard? No. They do not have the man power to call everyone about their deals, I've seen their case loads and it is huge.
                  > >
                  > >In regards to Law 80(applies only to island and coastal property), it is fantastic, but CATASTRO will be first to tell you that alot of attorneys do not know what they are doing when applying for it on your behalf, they are used to submitting a stack of crap and then nothing.
                  > >
                  > >Of course you pay in the end.
                  > >
                  > >Just here to help,
                  > >
                  > >Capt. Ray
                  > >
                  > >p.s.
                  > >Who is telling people that David is getting an international airport? That is not true at all, David is slated and budgeted for renovation only. Penonome is approved for an International airport by the Government and FAA(in regards to the route and airport symbol, PME).
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >--- In Gringos_in_David_ Panama@yahoogrou ps.com, Ronaldo DIAS <captainronaldo@ ...> wrote:
                  > >>
                  > >
                  > >> Just how many parcels of land have you titled from ROP Land?
                  > >>
                  > >> Any thing is possible in Panama if you throw enough money at it!
                  > >>
                  > >> Apparently you do not deal with the Reforma or Catastro, which by the
                  > >> control all or most ROP land in Panama!!
                  > >>
                  > >> You only mention Laws and Regulations never the Government entities that
                  > >> administers these laws, Regulations, and Rules!
                  > >>
                  > >> My only struggle was the time I spent actually getting ROP Land to Land
                  > >> Title.
                  > >>
                  > >> I have spent many hours with both the Reforma and Catastro, Actually taking
                  > >> ROP land to Titled Land!
                  > >>
                  > >> Until you actually deal with the process and get your land Title, you have
                  > >> not dealt with the people from these entities that administers, inspects,
                  > >> signs and stamps your Survey and all your related forms to be presented to
                  > >> the Public Register.
                  > >>
                  > >> They decide in the end if your ROP Land will be Titled, the why and how!
                  > >>
                  > >> These entities change the procedure and process on almost a weekly basis.
                  > >>
                  > >> So, yes there are laws and Regulations( New & old), after all this is Panama
                  > >> where the true rule of law is always Followed to the letter!
                  > >>
                  > >> Unfortunately not to the letter of the law!
                  > >>
                  > >> Case closed!
                  > >>
                  > >> If you have built on ROP land without assuming title you are just a sitting
                  > >> duck!
                  > >>
                  > >> Yes, ROP land is not Free period!
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >
                  > >> On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 9:36 AM, <ray@> wrote:
                  > >>
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> > I think most of us now understand that getting involved in ROP land is
                  > >> > dangerous, complicated and not for the timid at heart. Time to move on
                  > >> > to next subject.
                  > >> >
                  > >> > If anyone wants further information on ROP land, please contact the
                  > >> > knowledgeable contributor of your choice directly.
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >>
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > They
                  >

                  Hu

                • nadianicole64
                  What is wrong with ROP? Seeing how most get their property that way instead of paying the ridiculous prices that real estate agents want for the same. I like
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jul 2, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    What is wrong with ROP? Seeing how most get their property that way instead of paying the ridiculous prices that real estate agents want for the same. I like reading what people have to say about it for one, though I don't speak for the mjority like yourself.

                    --- In Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com, "ginglucky" <ginglucky@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I think we are all getting a bit fed up with all this. If you guys want to discuss R.O.P. Properties and all the associated conversations, chat to each other off the board. I think I can speak for the majority of members by saying we are not interested and for those who are not thinking straight and buy right of possession property, did not do their homework before undertaking such a worthless transaction.
                    >
                    > --- In Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com, Ray Whitlow III Herrera <meetmeinpanama@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Tienes razon.
                    > > What I have seen that prohibits Panamanians the most is family members.
                    > > Como sabes, when a Panamanian dies, after he is in the ground, the tears dry up and the fighting begins over property, since most folks do not have wills. Usually the strongest(meaning the one with the most local influence and money) relative wins. I know of 3 cases where it was an in law that beat the children.
                    > > Nuestro cultural.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ________________________________
                    > > From: Ronaldo DIAS <captainronaldo@>
                    > > To: Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Sent: Fri, July 2, 2010 1:14:49 PM
                    > > Subject: Re: [Gringos_in_David_Panama] Re: ROP Titling
                    > >
                    > >  
                    > > Ray,
                    > >
                    > > Thank you for stating the obvious when it comes to the Costs of Titling ROP Lands!
                    > >
                    > > The truth is there are costs which will still prohibit most Panamanians from titling their ROP lands!
                    > >
                    > > Yes, you do not need and attorney they only drive the costs up(small parcels).
                    > >
                    > > I have never been asked to pay any monies to any employee or official here in Panama!
                    > >
                    > > If it it too good to be true, it is too good to be true!  
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Ray <meetmeinpanama@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >  
                    > > >Getting ROP property titled has been relatively easy for me to do. I have done it in the Bocas as well as other provinces in Panama. What is the most time consuming is getting the curent owner's docts in order and getting a current survey done. Most property had never had a formal survey done or the numbers are all wrong, sometimes to your benefit. I assemble the packs and I submit the deals personaly with your regional Rep in CATASTRO, in Amador.
                    > > >
                    > > >Not at any point in my dealings had any goverment official in the city has asked for monies.
                    > > >
                    > > >CATASTRO is issuing titles quicker than concessions, for example, there is a back log of 1500 deals awaiting approval for concession in CATASTRO for Bocas Del Toro alone!
                    > > >
                    > > >Patience is something you need to keep in mind as they are averaging 6 months on title approvals.
                    > > >
                    > > >Be careful in who you have submit your paperwork, they have to do followups with CATASTRO, because CATASTRO will not call the attorney at all, whether approved or not, and there are many deals that I have seen that were not approved and the applicant never knew, usually for something that could of been addressed ahead of time.
                    > > >
                    > > >Is CATASTRO lazy in that regard? No. They do not have the man power to call everyone about their deals, I've seen their case loads and it is huge.
                    > > >
                    > > >In regards to Law 80(applies only to island and coastal property), it is fantastic, but CATASTRO will be first to tell you that alot of attorneys do not know what they are doing when applying for it on your behalf, they are used to submitting a stack of crap and then nothing.
                    > > >
                    > > >Of course you pay in the end.
                    > > >
                    > > >Just here to help,
                    > > >
                    > > >Capt. Ray
                    > > >
                    > > >p.s.
                    > > >Who is telling people that David is getting an international airport? That is not true at all, David is slated and budgeted for renovation only. Penonome is approved for an International airport by the Government and FAA(in regards to the route and airport symbol, PME).
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >--- In Gringos_in_David_ Panama@yahoogrou ps.com, Ronaldo DIAS <captainronaldo@ ...> wrote:
                    > > >>
                    > > >
                    > > >> Just how many parcels of land have you titled from ROP Land?
                    > > >>
                    > > >> Any thing is possible in Panama if you throw enough money at it!
                    > > >>
                    > > >> Apparently you do not deal with the Reforma or Catastro, which by the
                    > > >> control all or most ROP land in Panama!!
                    > > >>
                    > > >> You only mention Laws and Regulations never the Government entities that
                    > > >> administers these laws, Regulations, and Rules!
                    > > >>
                    > > >> My only struggle was the time I spent actually getting ROP Land to Land
                    > > >> Title.
                    > > >>
                    > > >> I have spent many hours with both the Reforma and Catastro, Actually taking
                    > > >> ROP land to Titled Land!
                    > > >>
                    > > >> Until you actually deal with the process and get your land Title, you have
                    > > >> not dealt with the people from these entities that administers, inspects,
                    > > >> signs and stamps your Survey and all your related forms to be presented to
                    > > >> the Public Register.
                    > > >>
                    > > >> They decide in the end if your ROP Land will be Titled, the why and how!
                    > > >>
                    > > >> These entities change the procedure and process on almost a weekly basis.
                    > > >>
                    > > >> So, yes there are laws and Regulations( New & old), after all this is Panama
                    > > >> where the true rule of law is always Followed to the letter!
                    > > >>
                    > > >> Unfortunately not to the letter of the law!
                    > > >>
                    > > >> Case closed!
                    > > >>
                    > > >> If you have built on ROP land without assuming title you are just a sitting
                    > > >> duck!
                    > > >>
                    > > >> Yes, ROP land is not Free period!
                    > > >>
                    > > >>
                    > > >>
                    > > >>
                    > > >>
                    > > >>
                    > > >>
                    > > >>
                    > > >>
                    > > >>
                    > > >>
                    > > >
                    > > >> On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 9:36 AM, <ray@> wrote:
                    > > >>
                    > > >> >
                    > > >> >
                    > > >> > I think most of us now understand that getting involved in ROP land is
                    > > >> > dangerous, complicated and not for the timid at heart. Time to move on
                    > > >> > to next subject.
                    > > >> >
                    > > >> > If anyone wants further information on ROP land, please contact the
                    > > >> > knowledgeable contributor of your choice directly.
                    > > >> >
                    > > >> >
                    > > >> >
                    > > >>
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > > They
                    > >
                    >
                  • susanagg1
                    Well, you see, that is in the nature of a chat group. Everyone is rarely interested in any particular post. The majority of people are rarely interested
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jul 2, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Well, you see, that is in the nature of a chat group. "Everyone" is rarely interested in any particular post. The "majority" of people are rarely interested in any specific topic, whether its "how can I title my ROP" or "where can I buy a 22 inch lawn mower blade?" Your low opinion of anyone who has ROP does not entitle you to act as censor for everyone else.
                      There is an easy remedy for people like you who feel they do not wish to read posts on topics about which they have no interest. You can (1) use the web only to read groups, each web post shows the first line as well as the subject, and you can scroll right on past those in which you have no interest; or (2) if you must use email, you can have all messages downloaded to a special folder only for that purpose and use an email client that offers "preview" so that you can quickly delete. For people like you who have a short fuse cand can't bear to read stuff that doesn't interest you I'd recommend option 1.
                      Actually, Law 80 applies nationwide to islands and coastal areas. There are coastal areas in Chiriqui for whom this law is applicable, and there are also islands of the Chiriqui coast to which this law applies.
                      Furthermore, while property in or very near towns is usually titled, the majority of property in Panama is not. That is why there are signs all over the place that say "title your property." These signs are put up by PRONAT. Perhaps in your opinion, they should say "title your property, YOU MORON."
                      Everyone is entitled to his opinion, but you know, the "jacky" approach ("I got mine, Jack, so screw you" is viewed as quite tacky by
                      some people.
                      Maybe you should take a chill pill and learn to be a bit more tolerant of other people's interests. The world does not revolve around you, you know (or maybe you don't?) Some of us who are trying to title our property are thinking quite "straight," thank you very much.
                      Some of us worked quite hard to try to ensure that everyone benefitted from the new law, not just each of us dealing with our own particular situation.

                      --- In Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com, "ginglucky" <ginglucky@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I think we are all getting a bit fed up with all this. If you guys want to discuss R.O.P. Properties and all the associated conversations, chat to each other off the board. I think I can speak for the majority of members by saying we are not interested and for those who are not thinking straight and buy right of possession property, did not do their homework before undertaking such a worthless transaction.
                      >
                    • Ray Whitlow III Herrera
                      My gosh! 4th time this year that I have agreed with Susan! ________________________________ From: susanagg1 To:
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jul 2, 2010
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                        My gosh! 4th time this year that I have agreed with Susan!


                        From: susanagg1 <susanagg2@...>
                        To: Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Fri, July 2, 2010 3:09:44 PM
                        Subject: [Gringos_in_David_Panama] Re: ROP Titling

                         

                        Well, you see, that is in the nature of a chat group. "Everyone" is rarely interested in any particular post. The "majority" of people are rarely interested in any specific topic, whether its "how can I title my ROP" or "where can I buy a 22 inch lawn mower blade?" Your low opinion of anyone who has ROP does not entitle you to act as censor for everyone else.
                        There is an easy remedy for people like you who feel they do not wish to read posts on topics about which they have no interest. You can (1) use the web only to read groups, each web post shows the first line as well as the subject, and you can scroll right on past those in which you have no interest; or (2) if you must use email, you can have all messages downloaded to a special folder only for that purpose and use an email client that offers "preview" so that you can quickly delete. For people like you who have a short fuse cand can't bear to read stuff that doesn't interest you I'd recommend option 1.
                        Actually, Law 80 applies nationwide to islands and coastal areas. There are coastal areas in Chiriqui for whom this law is applicable, and there are also islands of the Chiriqui coast to which this law applies.
                        Furthermore, while property in or very near towns is usually titled, the majority of property in Panama is not. That is why there are signs all over the place that say "title your property." These signs are put up by PRONAT. Perhaps in your opinion, they should say "title your property, YOU MORON."
                        Everyone is entitled to his opinion, but you know, the "jacky" approach ("I got mine, Jack, so screw you" is viewed as quite tacky by
                        some people.
                        Maybe you should take a chill pill and learn to be a bit more tolerant of other people's interests. The world does not revolve around you, you know (or maybe you don't?) Some of us who are trying to title our property are thinking quite "straight," thank you very much.
                        Some of us worked quite hard to try to ensure that everyone benefitted from the new law, not just each of us dealing with our own particular situation.

                        --- In Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com, "ginglucky" <ginglucky@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I think we are all getting a bit fed up with all this. If you guys want to discuss R.O.P. Properties and all the associated conversations, chat to each other off the board. I think I can speak for the majority of members by saying we are not interested and for those who are not thinking straight and buy right of possession property, did not do their homework before undertaking such a worthless transaction.
                        >


                      • Ray Whitlow III Herrera
                        Again(can t believe I am saying this) Susan makes an excellent point. I do not always agree with her and I have the CHOICE of posting my opinion or ignoring it
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jul 2, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Again(can't believe I am saying this) Susan makes an excellent point. I do not always agree with her and I have the CHOICE of posting my opinion or ignoring it and moving on to press the delete button. Susan and I have a history of not agreeing with each other, though I must admit, that much of the information that she provides is useful, while the services I provide have their uses as well.
                          What folks lack here in Panama is education, and that is what I try to do and (ugh) Susan as well.
                          So, relax.


                          From: susanagg1 <susanagg2@...>
                          To: Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Fri, July 2, 2010 3:09:44 PM
                          Subject: [Gringos_in_David_Panama] Re: ROP Titling

                           

                          Well, you see, that is in the nature of a chat group. "Everyone" is rarely interested in any particular post. The "majority" of people are rarely interested in any specific topic, whether its "how can I title my ROP" or "where can I buy a 22 inch lawn mower blade?" Your low opinion of anyone who has ROP does not entitle you to act as censor for everyone else.
                          There is an easy remedy for people like you who feel they do not wish to read posts on topics about which they have no interest. You can (1) use the web only to read groups, each web post shows the first line as well as the subject, and you can scroll right on past those in which you have no interest; or (2) if you must use email, you can have all messages downloaded to a special folder only for that purpose and use an email client that offers "preview" so that you can quickly delete. For people like you who have a short fuse cand can't bear to read stuff that doesn't interest you I'd recommend option 1.
                          Actually, Law 80 applies nationwide to islands and coastal areas. There are coastal areas in Chiriqui for whom this law is applicable, and there are also islands of the Chiriqui coast to which this law applies.
                          Furthermore, while property in or very near towns is usually titled, the majority of property in Panama is not. That is why there are signs all over the place that say "title your property." These signs are put up by PRONAT. Perhaps in your opinion, they should say "title your property, YOU MORON."
                          Everyone is entitled to his opinion, but you know, the "jacky" approach ("I got mine, Jack, so screw you" is viewed as quite tacky by
                          some people.
                          Maybe you should take a chill pill and learn to be a bit more tolerant of other people's interests. The world does not revolve around you, you know (or maybe you don't?) Some of us who are trying to title our property are thinking quite "straight," thank you very much.
                          Some of us worked quite hard to try to ensure that everyone benefitted from the new law, not just each of us dealing with our own particular situation.

                          --- In Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com, "ginglucky" <ginglucky@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I think we are all getting a bit fed up with all this. If you guys want to discuss R.O.P. Properties and all the associated conversations, chat to each other off the board. I think I can speak for the majority of members by saying we are not interested and for those who are not thinking straight and buy right of possession property, did not do their homework before undertaking such a worthless transaction.
                          >


                        • Ronaldo DIAS
                          Ginglucky, I agree with you! I will admit, I may be guilty of dispelling some of this BS!! I try expose the hype which Panama is so full of! I have never
                          Message 12 of 24 , Jul 2, 2010
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Ginglucky,

                            I agree with you!

                            I will admit, I may be guilty of dispelling some of this BS!!

                            I try expose the hype which Panama is so full of!

                            I have never gained monetarily from the Panamanian people or Government.

                            I came to Panama to retire in peace and hopefully live without the same Problems that I left behind in the USA.

                            Some individuals here want their personal problems to be every one else problems!

                            You answer a Post and suddenly all the experts who have failed in their attempts on the subject come out to scorn you!

                            They truly have an over exaggerated opinion of themselves, living here in Panama.

                            There are a few individuals here and on other blogs & groups that always know more than any one else and that will always disagree with you just because they can!

                            They only win by default, their own!

                            We as Expats and Gringo's are not truly allowed by law to interfere with the Panamanian  Political process!

                            Mistakes have been and will be made!

                            If I personally tried to sell my agenda to everyone, and my over exaggerated opinion of my self,  I would have been deported long ago.

                            It is really too bad, a few who individuals here think they are a big fish in a small pond here!

                            While they do not understand.

                            They are nothing more than bait for the real fish who's pond they swim in!!

                            JaJaJa!

                            I guess the Bocas Expats and Gringo's have a lot of Tacky Jacky's between them, residing and swimming among them!

                            Happy Trails!

                            My apologies if I have offended the innocent!! 



                            On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 2:09 PM, susanagg1 <susanagg2@...> wrote:
                             

                            Well, you see, that is in the nature of a chat group. "Everyone" is rarely interested in any particular post. The "majority" of people are rarely interested in any specific topic, whether its "how can I title my ROP" or "where can I buy a 22 inch lawn mower blade?" Your low opinion of anyone who has ROP does not entitle you to act as censor for everyone else.
                            There is an easy remedy for people like you who feel they do not wish to read posts on topics about which they have no interest. You can (1) use the web only to read groups, each web post shows the first line as well as the subject, and you can scroll right on past those in which you have no interest; or (2) if you must use email, you can have all messages downloaded to a special folder only for that purpose and use an email client that offers "preview" so that you can quickly delete. For people like you who have a short fuse cand can't bear to read stuff that doesn't interest you I'd recommend option 1.
                            Actually, Law 80 applies nationwide to islands and coastal areas. There are coastal areas in Chiriqui for whom this law is applicable, and there are also islands of the Chiriqui coast to which this law applies.
                            Furthermore, while property in or very near towns is usually titled, the majority of property in Panama is not. That is why there are signs all over the place that say "title your property." These signs are put up by PRONAT. Perhaps in your opinion, they should say "title your property, YOU MORON."
                            Everyone is entitled to his opinion, but you know, the "jacky" approach ("I got mine, Jack, so screw you" is viewed as quite tacky by
                            some people.
                            Maybe you should take a chill pill and learn to be a bit more tolerant of other people's interests. The world does not revolve around you, you know (or maybe you don't?) Some of us who are trying to title our property are thinking quite "straight," thank you very much.
                            Some of us worked quite hard to try to ensure that everyone benefitted from the new law, not just each of us dealing with our own particular situation.


                            --- In Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com, "ginglucky" <ginglucky@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I think we are all getting a bit fed up with all this. If you guys want to discuss R.O.P. Properties and all the associated conversations, chat to each other off the board. I think I can speak for the majority of members by saying we are not interested and for those who are not thinking straight and buy right of possession property, did not do their homework before undertaking such a worthless transaction.
                            >


                          • LARSON RIMKEIT
                            SAY,... WHO NEEDS TO TAKE A CHILL PILL??? To: Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com From: susanagg2@gmail.com Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 19:09:44 +0000 Subject:
                            Message 13 of 24 , Jul 2, 2010
                            • 0 Attachment

                              SAY,... WHO NEEDS TO TAKE A CHILL PILL???

                               



                               


                              To: Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com
                              From: susanagg2@...
                              Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 19:09:44 +0000
                              Subject: [Gringos_in_David_Panama] Re: ROP Titling

                               
                              Well, you see, that is in the nature of a chat group. "Everyone" is rarely interested in any particular post. The "majority" of people are rarely interested in any specific topic, whether its "how can I title my ROP" or "where can I buy a 22 inch lawn mower blade?" Your low opinion of anyone who has ROP does not entitle you to act as censor for everyone else.
                              There is an easy remedy for people like you who feel they do not wish to read posts on topics about which they have no interest. You can (1) use the web only to read groups, each web post shows the first line as well as the subject, and you can scroll right on past those in which you have no interest; or (2) if you must use email, you can have all messages downloaded to a special folder only for that purpose and use an email client that offers "preview" so that you can quickly delete. For people like you who have a short fuse cand can't bear to read stuff that doesn't interest you I'd recommend option 1.
                              Actually, Law 80 applies nationwide to islands and coastal areas. There are coastal areas in Chiriqui for whom this law is applicable, and there are also islands of the Chiriqui coast to which this law applies.
                              Furthermore, while property in or very near towns is usually titled, the majority of property in Panama is not. That is why there are signs all over the place that say "title your property." These signs are put up by PRONAT. Perhaps in your opinion, they should say "title your property, YOU MORON."
                              Everyone is entitled to his opinion, but you know, the "jacky" approach ("I got mine, Jack, so screw you" is viewed as quite tacky by
                              some people.
                              Maybe you should take a chill pill and learn to be a bit more tolerant of other people's interests. The world does not revolve around you, you know (or maybe you don't?) Some of us who are trying to title our property are thinking quite "straight," thank you very much.
                              Some of us worked quite hard to try to ensure that everyone benefitted from the new law, not just each of us dealing with our own particular situation.

                              --- In Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com, "ginglucky" <ginglucky@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I think we are all getting a bit fed up with all this. If you guys want to discuss R.O.P. Properties and all the associated conversations, chat to each other off the board. I think I can speak for the majority of members by saying we are not interested and for those who are not thinking straight and buy right of possession property, did not do their homework before undertaking such a worthless transaction.
                              >


                            • Ray Whitlow III Herrera
                              Well said, though for the record I am not an expat. I was born in the States, but I am Panamanian as well(Mom). Been coming back and forth my whole life, so, I
                              Message 14 of 24 , Jul 2, 2010
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                                Well said, though for the record I am not an expat.
                                I was born in the States, but I am Panamanian as well(Mom).
                                Been coming back and forth my whole life, so, I remember the Zone, Torrijos, Noriega, I was in th 8th grade in St.Mary's in Balboa when the Canal Treaty was signed, and trying to get out before it hit the fan when Just Cause broke loose. Had it not of been for the riots of January 1964, I would of been born in the Zone in Colon.


                                From: Ronaldo DIAS <captainronaldo@...>
                                To: Gringos_in_David_Panama@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Fri, July 2, 2010 4:31:22 PM
                                Subject: Re: [Gringos_in_David_Panama] Re: ROP Titling

                                 

                                Ginglucky,

                                I agree with you!

                                I will admit, I may be guilty of dispelling some of this BS!!

                                I try expose the hype which Panama is so full of!

                                I have never gained monetarily from the Panamanian people or Government.

                                I came to Panama to retire in peace and hopefully live without the same Problems that I left behind in the USA.

                                Some individuals here want their personal problems to be every one else problems!

                                You answer a Post and suddenly all the experts who have failed in their attempts on the subject come out to scorn you!

                                They truly have an over exaggerated opinion of themselves, living here in Panama.

                                There are a few individuals here and on other blogs & groups that always know more than any one else and that will always disagree with you just because they can!

                                They only win by default, their own!

                                We as Expats and Gringo's are not truly allowed by law to interfere with the Panamanian  Political process!

                                Mistakes have been and will be made!

                                If I personally tried to sell my agenda to everyone, and my over exaggerated opinion of my self,  I would have been deported long ago.

                                It is really too bad, a few who individuals here think they are a big fish in a small pond here!

                                While they do not understand.

                                They are nothing more than bait for the real fish who's pond they swim in!!

                                JaJaJa!

                                I guess the Bocas Expats and Gringo's have a lot of Tacky Jacky's between them, residing and swimming among them!

                                Happy Trails!

                                My apologies if I have offended the innocent!! 



                                On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 2:09 PM, susanagg1 <susanagg2@gmail. com> wrote:
                                 

                                Well, you see, that is in the nature of a chat group. "Everyone" is rarely interested in any particular post. The "majority" of people are rarely interested in any specific topic, whether its "how can I title my ROP" or "where can I buy a 22 inch lawn mower blade?" Your low opinion of anyone who has ROP does not entitle you to act as censor for everyone else.
                                There is an easy remedy for people like you who feel they do not wish to read posts on topics about which they have no interest. You can (1) use the web only to read groups, each web post shows the first line as well as the subject, and you can scroll right on past those in which you have no interest; or (2) if you must use email, you can have all messages downloaded to a special folder only for that purpose and use an email client that offers "preview" so that you can quickly delete. For people like you who have a short fuse cand can't bear to read stuff that doesn't interest you I'd recommend option 1.
                                Actually, Law 80 applies nationwide to islands and coastal areas. There are coastal areas in Chiriqui for whom this law is applicable, and there are also islands of the Chiriqui coast to which this law applies.
                                Furthermore, while property in or very near towns is usually titled, the majority of property in Panama is not. That is why there are signs all over the place that say "title your property." These signs are put up by PRONAT. Perhaps in your opinion, they should say "title your property, YOU MORON."
                                Everyone is entitled to his opinion, but you know, the "jacky" approach ("I got mine, Jack, so screw you" is viewed as quite tacky by
                                some people.
                                Maybe you should take a chill pill and learn to be a bit more tolerant of other people's interests. The world does not revolve around you, you know (or maybe you don't?) Some of us who are trying to title our property are thinking quite "straight," thank you very much.
                                Some of us worked quite hard to try to ensure that everyone benefitted from the new law, not just each of us dealing with our own particular situation.


                                --- In Gringos_in_David_ Panama@yahoogrou ps.com, "ginglucky" <ginglucky@.. .> wrote:
                                >
                                > I think we are all getting a bit fed up with all this. If you guys want to discuss R.O.P. Properties and all the associated conversations, chat to each other off the board. I think I can speak for the majority of members by saying we are not interested and for those who are not thinking straight and buy right of possession property, did not do their homework before undertaking such a worthless transaction.
                                >



                              • Ray Whitlow III Herrera
                                Tomorrow during the 2 world cup games, since I am rooting for both(Spain and Argentina). The U.S. games stressed me out so bad, that I accidently pressed the
                                Message 15 of 24 , Jul 2, 2010
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                                  Tomorrow during the 2 world cup games, since I am rooting for both(Spain and Argentina). The U.S. games stressed me out so bad, that I accidently pressed the screen of my cel so bad, that I cannot read the numbers!


                                  From: LARSON RIMKEIT <firstcapro@...>
                                  To: gringos_in_david_panama@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Fri, July 2, 2010 4:37:29 PM
                                  Subject: RE: [Gringos_in_David_Panama] Re: ROP Titling

                                   


                                  SAY,... WHO NEEDS TO TAKE A CHILL PILL???

                                   



                                   


                                  To: Gringos_in_David_ Panama@yahoogrou ps.com
                                  From: susanagg2@gmail. com
                                  Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 19:09:44 +0000
                                  Subject: [Gringos_in_ David_Panama] Re: ROP Titling

                                   
                                  Well, you see, that is in the nature of a chat group. "Everyone" is rarely interested in any particular post. The "majority" of people are rarely interested in any specific topic, whether its "how can I title my ROP" or "where can I buy a 22 inch lawn mower blade?" Your low opinion of anyone who has ROP does not entitle you to act as censor for everyone else.
                                  There is an easy remedy for people like you who feel they do not wish to read posts on topics about which they have no interest. You can (1) use the web only to read groups, each web post shows the first line as well as the subject, and you can scroll right on past those in which you have no interest; or (2) if you must use email, you can have all messages downloaded to a special folder only for that purpose and use an email client that offers "preview" so that you can quickly delete. For people like you who have a short fuse cand can't bear to read stuff that doesn't interest you I'd recommend option 1.
                                  Actually, Law 80 applies nationwide to islands and coastal areas. There are coastal areas in Chiriqui for whom this law is applicable, and there are also islands of the Chiriqui coast to which this law applies.
                                  Furthermore, while property in or very near towns is usually titled, the majority of property in Panama is not. That is why there are signs all over the place that say "title your property." These signs are put up by PRONAT. Perhaps in your opinion, they should say "title your property, YOU MORON."
                                  Everyone is entitled to his opinion, but you know, the "jacky" approach ("I got mine, Jack, so screw you" is viewed as quite tacky by
                                  some people.
                                  Maybe you should take a chill pill and learn to be a bit more tolerant of other people's interests. The world does not revolve around you, you know (or maybe you don't?) Some of us who are trying to title our property are thinking quite "straight," thank you very much.
                                  Some of us worked quite hard to try to ensure that everyone benefitted from the new law, not just each of us dealing with our own particular situation.

                                  --- In Gringos_in_David_ Panama@yahoogrou ps.com, "ginglucky" <ginglucky@.. .> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I think we are all getting a bit fed up with all this. If you guys want to discuss R.O.P. Properties and all the associated conversations, chat to each other off the board. I think I can speak for the majority of members by saying we are not interested and for those who are not thinking straight and buy right of possession property, did not do their homework before undertaking such a worthless transaction.
                                  >



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