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Re: [GreenbrierHixKids] Martin's

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  • Romani Itedomum
    Hello Carol and gang,   I am new at the chase for the Martin heritage and may be beating a dead dog....so to speak.   On Footnote they have mucho Rev War
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 2, 2009
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      Hello Carol and gang,
       
      I am new at the chase for the Martin heritage and may be beating a dead dog....so to speak.
       
      On Footnote they have mucho Rev War records.  Muster lists actually taken during the war, pension requests etc.  I entered Joesph Martin and Virginia and a Joseph Martin married to a Patsey Bailey came up.
       
      Before I type up all this, has this been explored by anybody???
       
      This Joseph married Patsey Bailey "on March 1st, about 18 months before the end of the war" while he was on furlough, in Loudoun Co., VA.  He applied for a pension in 1818 while a resident of Henry Co., VA.  Joseph died Feb 14, 1832 - in Henry Co.  The pension records - and there are literally hundreds of records for Joseph - one written by a son named Stephen that mentions how all the dates of births, marriages and etc are written in a family bible. 
       
      This Jospeh and Patsey had six children:  Stephen: Bn 28 Nov 1779
      Susanna: bn 8 May 1787, Morning or Moaning (that's the way the gov't clerk wrote it in 1932) bn 1 Aug 1789, JOSEPH bn 7 Sept 1791 or '92 (but Stephens letter does say '91), Thomas: bn 26 May 1795, Patsy or Martha bn 27 May 1798, married John Perdue.
       
      The family moved around  a lot.  In 1839 Stephen, Joseph , Susanna, and Morning lived in Patrick Co. VA, while Patsey Martin, widow of Joseph, lived in Rockingham Co., NC.  Thomas was living "somewhere in the West" (Stephen's words).
       
      The research I had prior to my posting on this site , said Shadracks dad was Joseph- and that was this: Summers County, West Virginia Deaths, Vol I, 1872-1890-Haga, (Pauline A. Haga), Shadrack Martin died June 9, 1875 of liver disease at age 59 years, six months and
      22 days. Born in Summers County, was son of Joseph Martin.  And I believe I saw the wife as being Patsey on someone else's site.
       
      Is there a chance that Shadrack was the son of Joseph, who was the son of Joseph and Patsey????  
       
      You folks have been at this Hix, Richmond, Martin etc stuff far longer than me.  What do you think??
       
      Jim


      --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Carol Benjamin <chb20190@...> wrote:

      From: Carol Benjamin <chb20190@...>
      Subject: Re: [GreenbrierHixKids] Martin's
      To: GreenbrierHixKids@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 1:41 PM





      Jim and all,
         I still strongly hold that there is no indication that 'my' Joseph Martin md Patsy Bailey - without further proof.  He definitely had a mother to other children before he md Elizabeth Richmondin 1820; she may have been a Patsy, or even a Patsy Bailey, but until someone can show some reason, I don't believe it.

        Shadrack's wives are more complicated that it seems at first.  He md Elizabeth Terry in Fayette 1841; however had children prior to 1841, and Elizabeth Terry is also referred to as Mary Elizabeth Terry.  And since neither of them died young, it makes it a guessing game of who was the mother of which children.  Many of the death certificates were found for the children and most say Mary Martin or Mary Richmond.

        Cecilia and I, as well as other descendants,  have spent lots of time in Greenbrier and Fayette without finding much info.

      Carol


      romanilegionaire wrote:
       
      Hello All,


      Martin - so in summary,
      1. Joseph S Martin did marry Patsey Bailey and then Elizabeth Richmond.


      One more question while I'm here... I am in Michigan, and have not been to WVa since 1995, pre-genealogy interest. Do most of the members live in Summers/Greenbrier county area? And I assume that all the records in Lewisburg and Hinton have been given a going over??
      Last question...honest. ... would a trip to Charleston or even Richmond provide more info than we have already?

      Jim




    • Carol Benjamin
      These are the same Rev War papers I found, have sent them to several people, and in my mind is proof that my Joseph could not have been the Joseph who
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 2, 2009
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        These are the same Rev War papers I found, have sent them to several people, and in my mind is proof that 'my' Joseph could not have been the Joseph who married Patsy Bailey, or his son.

        Reasoning:
        1.  According to the 1820 Census, Joseph S Martin  was born by or before 1775; according to the 1830 census his birth was between 1770-1780. That puts his birth between 1770-1775.

        2. In 1820 there is a female bet 26-45 (wife or house keeper?)  There are children in 1820 census, some or all could be his.

        3. In 1830 there is a female bet 30-34.  Joseph S md Elizabeth Richmond July 1820.  A female of this age is consistent in 1840.  I take this to be Elizabeth Richmond, and the female who is in 1820 census is not in 1830 or 1840 census.

        4. This Patsy Bailey is still living in 1839, after Joseph S Martin has remarried.

        5.  There is no evidence that Joseph/Patsy Bailey of the Rev War application every lived in Greenbrier.

        6. Joseph S Martin is still living in 1849 to sign, with his wife Elizabeth, as heirs of William Richmond.  He, nor his children who should have been still at home, has not been found in 1850 census.

        Carol


      • Romani Itedomum
        Thanks Carol, I knew someone had already been down that road and knew more than I...... just seemed to be a weird coincidence of Joseph Martin s and Patsey
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 3, 2009
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          Thanks Carol, I knew someone had already been down that road and knew more than I...... just seemed to be a weird coincidence of Joseph Martin's and Patsey Baileys.  You wouldn't think that combo would show up very frequently.  But as "Patsy" seems a common nickname for Martha, I guess it could happen.
           
          After I posted, my wife looked at them and said she didn't think they were right either.
           
          I assume that all of the Rev War records have been picked clean for ideas on Joseph and will stop reading these things.
           
          Jim
           


          --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Carol Benjamin <chb20190@...> wrote:

          From: Carol Benjamin <chb20190@...>
          Subject: Re: [GreenbrierHixKids] Martin's
          To: GreenbrierHixKids@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 8:23 PM



          These are the same Rev War papers I found, have sent them to several people, and in my mind is proof that 'my' Joseph could not have been the Joseph who married Patsy Bailey, or his son.

          Reasoning:
          1.  According to the 1820 Census, Joseph S Martin  was born by or before 1775; according to the 1830 census his birth was between 1770-1780. That puts his birth between 1770-1775.

          2. In 1820 there is a female bet 26-45 (wife or house keeper?)  There are children in 1820 census, some or all could be his.

          3. In 1830 there is a female bet 30-34.  Joseph S md Elizabeth Richmond July 1820.  A female of this age is consistent in 1840.  I take this to be Elizabeth Richmond, and the female who is in 1820 census is not in 1830 or 1840 census.

          4. This Patsy Bailey is still living in 1839, after Joseph S Martin has remarried.

          5.  There is no evidence that Joseph/Patsy Bailey of the Rev War application every lived in Greenbrier.

          6. Joseph S Martin is still living in 1849 to sign, with his wife Elizabeth, as heirs of William Richmond.  He, nor his children who should have been still at home, has not been found in 1850 census.

          Carol





        • romanilegionaire
          Hey again Carol, Reading what you wrote. So what you are saying that the Jospeh Martin, father of Shadrack, never married a Patsy Bailey. And that the idea
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 3, 2009
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            Hey again Carol,

            Reading what you wrote. So what you are saying that the Jospeh Martin, father of Shadrack, never married a Patsy Bailey. And that the idea of a Joseph Martin and Patsey Bailey is totally different equation. One that is spread easier and farther by the internet. Correct???

            Do you think that Joseph was married to some one else prior to Elizabeth Richmond? ANd is Elizabeth the mother of Shadrack?

            Like I said, I'm playing catchup here.... should probably trade emails versus posting here... I can hear everybody sighing and thinking, "Not that again....."

            Jim
          • Bonnie
            The discussion should be in the groups files for the future, I think. Any discussion is welcome. ... Hey again Carol, Reading what you wrote. So what you are
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 3, 2009
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              The discussion should be in the groups files for the future, I think.  Any discussion is welcome.


              -----Original Message-----
              From: romanilegionaire
              Sent: Aug 3, 2009 9:08 AM
              To: GreenbrierHixKids@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [GreenbrierHixKids] Re: Martin's

               

              Hey again Carol,

              Reading what you wrote. So what you are saying that the Jospeh Martin, father of Shadrack, never married a Patsy Bailey. And that the idea of a Joseph Martin and Patsey Bailey is totally different equation. One that is spread easier and farther by the internet. Correct???

              Do you think that Joseph was married to some one else prior to Elizabeth Richmond? ANd is Elizabeth the mother of Shadrack?

              Like I said, I'm playing catchup here.... should probably trade emails versus posting here... I can hear everybody sighing and thinking, "Not that again....."

              Jim

              
              Bonnie
            • Libby Martin
              I agree, this is how I pick up on bits of pieces. Most to the discussions are not my direct family, but the information is welcome................... Libby
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 3, 2009
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                I agree, this is how I pick up on bits of pieces.  Most to the discussions are not my direct family, but the information is welcome................... Libby
                 
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Bonnie
                Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:57 AM
                Subject: Re: [GreenbrierHixKids] Re: Martin's

                 

                The discussion should be in the groups files for the future, I think.  Any discussion is welcome.


                -----Original Message-----
                From: romanilegionaire
                Sent: Aug 3, 2009 9:08 AM
                To: GreenbrierHixKids@ yahoogroups. com
                Subject: [GreenbrierHixKids] Re: Martin's

                 

                Hey again Carol,

                Reading what you wrote. So what you are saying that the Jospeh Martin, father of Shadrack, never married a Patsy Bailey. And that the idea of a Joseph Martin and Patsey Bailey is totally different equation. One that is spread easier and farther by the internet. Correct???

                Do you think that Joseph was married to some one else prior to Elizabeth Richmond? ANd is Elizabeth the mother of Shadrack?

                Like I said, I'm playing catchup here.... should probably trade emails versus posting here... I can hear everybody sighing and thinking, "Not that again....."

                Jim

                Bonnie

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