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Re: On the Victorian elections

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  • dabrow76
    ... Actually, that s not correct. Climate Action Moreland (the local climate group) put SA (and Cleary too I think) equal first on their how-to-vote-climate
    Message 1 of 29 , Dec 1, 2010
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      --- In GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com, "alanb1000" <alanb1000@...> wrote:
      > While there are apparently interesting local groups in Brunswick, the SA clearly isn't their preferred electoral mouthpiece. I don't know if Cleary, the Greens, or whoever is, but the SA isn't.


      Actually, that's not correct. Climate Action Moreland (the local climate group) put SA (and Cleary too I think) equal first on their how-to-vote-climate leaflet they distributed and one of their leading members spoke at our launch (with a couple of other fairly high profile climate activists in attendance at the event). Now pragmatically a lot of people go and support the Greens anyway at elections because they have a chance of winning, etc, but it's not quite how your "message from afar" would have it, Alan!

      Ben Courtice
    • Nick Fredman
      ... Quite, and that s pretty much the point of running there, and running generally: to a considerable extent at this stage of the game our message, including
      Message 2 of 29 , Dec 1, 2010
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        On 01/12/2010, at 7:00 PM, dabrow76 wrote:

        > --- In GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com, "alanb1000" <alanb1000@...> wrote:
        > > While there are apparently interesting local groups in Brunswick, the SA clearly isn't their preferred electoral mouthpiece. I don't know if Cleary, the Greens, or whoever is, but the SA isn't.
        >
        > Actually, that's not correct. Climate Action Moreland (the local climate group) put SA (and Cleary too I think) equal first on their how-to-vote-climate leaflet they distributed and one of their leading members spoke at our launch (with a couple of other fairly high profile climate activists in attendance at the event). Now pragmatically a lot of people go and support the Greens anyway at elections because they have a chance of winning, etc, but it's not quite how your "message from afar" would have it, Alan!
        >
        > Ben Courtice
        >
        Quite, and that's pretty much the point of running there, and running generally: to a considerable extent at this stage of the game our message, including in elections, is to pitched to advanced layers of activists and the more politically conscious, rather than the general mass of working people and the oppressed. That's not to say we shouldn't aim in the medium term to win council seats and 10% rather than 1 or 2% of the vote in state and federal elections, as well as getting activist groups discussing and supporting socialist solutions, but we have to work out how to get there concretely. Which may be different in different localities, and which may include participation in broader tickets with a Cleary or whatever, including Greens campaigns, might be useful.

        Relevant also to our work in Melbourne and its northern bits particularly is some indirect fallout from the election in Brunswick: the election of former Yarra Council ALP mayor Jane Garrett to this seat means a vacancy in that council, which by its rules means not a by-election but the co-option of the losing candidate in the last election from the same ward who came closest to winning. This happens to Anthony Main of the Socialist Party. It's great that they've got this extra opportunity and I'm sure it'll be used well, but while it's a reflection of their work there's also a fair bit of luck of their part: I see from http://www.vec.vic.gov.au/Results/yarraresult2008.html that Main got a respectable but for a council election unspectacular 5.6%, last out of 6 in the ward (so he must have got quite a few more preferences than the other 2 losing candidates who both received nearly double his primary vote), and quite a lot less than 5 out of the 6 Socialist Alliance candidates who stood in various wards across the state in the same poll (9-18% if I remember right).

        In any case along with Jolly's good vote there's a boost to the SP which is good for our side, and in lieu of them wanting to work more directly with us we should think about what we can usefully appropriate from their methods, though I suppose this has been discussed quite a bit (caveat to all my comments is that I haven't actually made it to a local branch meeting or event yet since moving here in January, as opposed to several central Melbourne events and doing bits at home). Perhaps each Socialist Alliance branch should be focusing its general activity within one or two council wards, to the extent possible.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • slee_c
        It will be interesting to see how the Greens react to the results of the Victorian election. They were hoping to win up to 4 seats, but did not win any. Since
        Message 3 of 29 , Dec 1, 2010
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          It will be interesting to see how the Greens react to the results of the Victorian election. They were hoping to win up to 4 seats, but did not win any.

          Since the primary vote of the Greens in their best seats is only about 30-40%, they need preferences to win. In the federal election they won the seat of Melbourne with the help of Liberal preferences. This time the Libs put Labor ahead of the Greens, so Labor won the 4 seats easily.

          This was a shock to many Greens supporters. It should not have been. That the right-wing Liberals were giving preferences to the left-leaning Greens was an anomaly that could not reasonably have been expected to continue.

          The Liberals had been giving preferences to the Greens because they saw them as a problem for the ALP and no threat to the Libs. However they changed their attitude for two reasons: 1. Greens support for the Labor government at the federal level; 2. The rise of the Greens threatens to push Australian politics to the left.

          Some in the Greens may react to their disappointment in Victoria by making concessions to the Liberals in an effort to win back their preferences. This could intensify left-right confict within the Greens.

          Chris Slee
        • RatbagMedia
          ... That was over 17 years ago, Doug -- seventeen years ago. The SA was formed only in 2001. It is worthwhile reminding the list about what you originally
          Message 4 of 29 , Dec 2, 2010
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            --- In GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com, "barn1950" <Douglas.jordan@...> wrote:

            > I stand corrected. It happened before the formation of Socialist alliance. At the March 1993 Federal election...

            That was over 17 years ago, Doug -- seventeen years ago. The SA was formed only in 2001.


            It is worthwhile reminding the list about what you originally wrote "I could be wrong but I seem to recall Socialist Alliance running against Steve Jolly in one election. There was a debate over this in the then Wills SA branch at the time..."

            You were very very wrong.

            i point this out because your assertions about the SA are not always correct.

            dave riley
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