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Re: GLW list and Carl Kenner in the twilight zone

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  • ozleft
    The DSP and Carl Kenner still in the twilight zone By Bob Gould The curious responses to my recent post are instructive politically. Carl Kenner accuses the
    Message 1 of 20 , Jun 10, 2004
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      The DSP and Carl Kenner still in the twilight zone

      By Bob Gould

      The curious responses to my recent post are instructive politically.
      Carl Kenner accuses the ALP of further crimes, which include support
      for the British monarchy. Brother Kenner lives in a very strange universe.

      There's a fair bit of spirited debate about the danger of Peter
      Garrett, but still not a word about the immense pressure from the US
      government and the right wing of the US and Australian ruling classes
      on Mark Latham and the Labor Party to reverse the Iraq withdrawal policy.

      To me, that seems the most pressing immediate conflict at the moment,
      but the alleged Marxists in the DSP orbit have not a word to say about it.

      In response to a new poster (and possibly an earlier post from Shane
      Hopkinson), which raised the same point, gently asking for a response
      on my points, we get this morning's patriotic rhetoric from Sue B that
      the failure to comment on the Victorian ALP conference conflict was
      simply a matter of resources.

      That's pretty rich from Sue B, the ostensible expert on the Victorian
      labour movement, who has written several lengthy pieces on the various
      forces at work there. One would have thought that Sue B wouldn't have
      found it a difficult task to do a short appraisal of the Victorian ALP
      conference cross-factional union collision with the Bracks Government.

      This issue has broader political implications because, if a federal
      Labor government is elected, which seems possible, the ability of the
      industrial and political labour movement to exert maximum pressure on
      the federal Labor government on industrial matters will be sharply posed.

      There has also been a bit of erudite interplay between Alan Bradley
      and Carl Kenner as to whether all members of the ALP are bad, or only
      all influential members. Personally, I'd classify Martin Kingham,
      Michelle O'Neil and a number of others active in the trade union
      movement as influential members of the ALP, and many militants will be
      looking to them for the kind of intelligent and courageous lead that
      they gave at the Victorian ALP conference, in the inevitable struggles
      with an incoming federal Labor government.

      There's has been no GLW comment at all about any of these important
      questions. This whole universe of the conflict and struggles within
      the official labour movement on big questions passes by Green Left
      Weekly almost completely.

      That gets us back to the immediate and over-riding political
      questions: the considerable enthusiasm on the left side of society for
      Labor to defeat Howard in the elections, for the Greens to do well in
      the elections and possibly have the balance of power in the Senate,
      and for maintaining the pressure on an incoming Labor government to
      withdraw the troops from Iraq.

      The current, brutal centrepiece of this whole political situation is
      the enormous pressure building up from the right of Australian society
      and the US bourgeoisie, Howard, the Murdoch press, etc, to humiliate
      and thereby politically domesticate Latham, and now Garrett, and the
      rest of the ALP, and as part of the same process to ride over the Greens.

      It's very striking that it seems impossible for any major figures in
      the DSP orbit to make any general political statement about these
      questions. All you get is trivia about Garrett, twilight zone abuse
      from Carl Kenner and a self-interested whinge from Sue B that making a
      political appraisal of the real political situation in Australia and
      the workers movement is merely a question of available journalistic
      resources.

      The DSP is still blundering around in the twilight zone, it seems.
    • ozleft
      Action alert Public school teachers robbed on wages For the future of public education in NSW please send an email, fax, letter to the Premier Bob Carr calling
      Message 2 of 20 , Jun 10, 2004
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        Action alert

        Public school teachers robbed on wages

        For the future of public education in NSW please send an email, fax,
        letter to the Premier Bob Carr calling on him to apply to the
        Industrial Relations Commission to reopen the public education
        salaries case.

        Premier's contact details at the end of this email.

        +++++++++++++++

        Quality public education system can only be achieved if teachers are
        well paid.

        The decision on teachers' salaries handed down by the Industrial
        Relations Commission this week is a disgrace and a kick in the guts to
        public education.

        Public school teachers are rightly outraged that their counterparts in
        catholic schools have been awarded salary increases of up to 7.5% more.

        The Industrial Relations Commission has granted catholic school
        principals a 19.5% wage increase. But public school teachers were
        given only a 12% increase.

        Public school teachers in the IRC public education case gave extensive
        evidence and were cross-examined exhaustively. Their evidence was
        accepted by the Commission as constituting a 'compelling' work value
        case. Their counterparts from catholic schools did not even appear in
        court, yet they gained significantly higher increases.

        A spokeswoman for the Minister for Education Dr Refshauge in
        justifying the biased decision to pay catholic teachers more argued
        that these teachers have different roles and responsibilities.

        There is no basis to the argument that catholic school teachers have
        more responsibility. If anything the heavier workload is carried by
        public school teachers. They have to teach all students irrespective
        of their learning abilities, socio-economic status and physical
        capabilities.

        URGENT

        Contact the NSW Premier

        ·express your outrage

        ·call on him to urgently apply to the IRC for the public school
        teachers' salary case to be reopened.

        CONTACT DETAILS

        Premier Bob Carr
        Level 40
        Governor Macquarie Tower 1 Farrer Place Sydney NSW 2000
        Fax: 9228 3935
        Email: bob.carr@w...
        From the Office of Greens MP Lee Rhiannon

        --------------------------------------------------
        Lee Rhiannon, MLC The Greens
        Parliament of New South Wales Macquarie St Sydney 2000
        Tel: +61-2-9230 3551
        Fax: +61-2-9230 3550
        Email lee.rhiannon@p...
        www.nsw.greens.org.au/lee
      • bluetier2004
        ... On critisms of the GreenLeft Weelky coverage of issues you consider crucial: you can only have a quantitative difference of opinion with the paper not
        Message 3 of 20 , Jun 10, 2004
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          >
          > By Bob Gould
          >

          > The DSP is still blundering around in the twilight zone, it seems.

          On critisms of the GreenLeft Weelky coverage of issues you consider
          crucial: you can only have a quantitative difference of opinion with
          the paper not qualitative (ie these issues are covered). The other
          point is your exagerated charaterisation ie twilight zone. Why not
          come down to earth yourself and be a little more realistic about the
          faults of the paper. Perhaps it does focus on the Iraq war and the
          Scottish Socialist Party but for gods sake I wouldn't say it's
          excentric by any means.

          Interesting point made by Henderson this morning on ABC AM that in
          reality the withdrawl will be tokensitic and only half of the actual
          numbers deployed. Not at all underestimating the pressure this will
          put on the coalition of the killing, but it's effect will be
          massively diluted compared to the impact of the Spanish withdrawl.
          Perhaps this explains why people haven't bothered addressing the
          issue.

          Importantly Bob, I think you really are setting yourself up for
          ridicule by not responding directly to events over the past 72 hrs.
          I find them quite illustrative of the fault lines (chasms) that
          prevail in the ALP and would be interested in hearing what you've got
          to say on this issue.
        • nobbytob
          ... huh? YOU are in the LP, not us. what is there to say about it? latham shouldn t. basta! WE have plenty of reasons to demand the immediate withdrawal of
          Message 4 of 20 , Jun 11, 2004
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            --- In GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com, "ozleft" <ozleft@y...>
            wrote:

            > By Bob Gould

            > There's a fair bit of spirited debate about the danger of Peter
            > Garrett, but still not a word about the immense pressure from the
            > US government and the right wing of the US and Australian ruling
            > classes on Mark Latham and the Labor Party to reverse the Iraq
            > withdrawal policy.
            >
            > To me, that seems the most pressing immediate conflict at the
            > moment, but the alleged Marxists in the DSP orbit have not a word
            > to say about it.

            huh? YOU are in the LP, not us. what is there to say about it?
            latham shouldn't. basta! WE have plenty of reasons to demand the
            immediate withdrawal of troops. have you? i get the feeling you
            want us to make up your mind about how to deal with YOUR fellow-
            laborites, lazy bugger, eh?

            why do you always try to force YOUR agenda onto us?
            find some young laberal and get him to set up an email list
            for that purpose of debating the ALP manouevring of the day.
            bet you won't get far due to lack of interest in SERIOUS debate
            about CHANGEING this fucked up society amongst the laborites.
            this is not a laber list (oops - freudian slip).


            > enormous pressure building up from the right of Australian society
            > and the US bourgeoisie, Howard, the Murdoch press, etc, to humiliate
            > and thereby politically domesticate Latham, and now Garrett, and the
            > rest of the ALP, and as part of the same process to ride over the
            > Greens.

            pressure is a matter of perspective. if you feel POLITICALLY
            und er pressure from the warmongers, sorry, but i don't get it.
            the german social democracy had no problem to turn head on
            against the war on the iraqi people and they won an election
            with that stand (and no illusions here, they did it exactly
            because of that: winning the election). empowered by this
            experience the SPD even took on the (on a world-scale most
            conservative) green leadership, when they suggested they would
            be prepared to send troops if only the UN would play a bigger
            role. they gave a shit about US+UK pressure, as they knew they
            can't beat that reason (winning the election 1992). i bet it
            wouldn't be too hard to turn around mainstream opinion the
            same way like happened in germany - expose the lies, then the
            liars, then get the votes. BUT YOU HAVE TO TAKE THAT STAND!
            that is what i am fighting for: turning the tide - outside
            of the labor party. i don't see the LP as the vehicle to real
            change, so i better help building an alternative force. again,
            look at the german example, where the SPD is running one of the
            harsher neoliberal agendas...

            bob, YOU are the whinger here on this list. so i'm serious:
            why don't YOU try to find someone else to play - build your
            virtual castles in another sandpit, ie.list ...
          • Michael Karadjis
            ... From: ozleft ... A discussion list is not necessarily going to reflect all the main questions of the day, for the simple reason
            Message 5 of 20 , Jun 11, 2004
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              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "ozleft" <ozleft@...>
              >
              > The current, brutal centrepiece of this whole political situation is
              > the enormous pressure building up from the right of Australian society
              > and the US bourgeoisie, Howard, the Murdoch press, etc, to humiliate
              > and thereby politically domesticate Latham, and now Garrett, and the
              > rest of the ALP, and as part of the same process to ride over the Greens.
              >
              > It's very striking that it seems impossible for any major figures in
              > the DSP orbit to make any general political statement about these
              > questions.

              A discussion list is not necessarily going to reflect all the main questions
              of the day, for the simple reason that some may not be controversial and
              people don't feel the need for extra discussion. I think everyone here would
              agree with you Bob that the intervention by Bush, Powell, Armitage etc into
              the Aus. politcal debate to pressure the ALP to drop its troops out position
              is outrageous, hardly a controversial thing on a left list. It is not as if
              the DSP and SA and GLW have not clearly and unambiguously welcomed the ALP
              call for troops out, even while critiquing, as the left should, some of the
              reasons given (ie we need the troops to fight terrorism in Afghanistan). It
              has also been pointed out that we are in favour of getting ALPers to speak
              on ant-war platforms. And of course, the fact that the DSP and SA, unlike
              the Greens (many of whom seem to think the ALP and Coalition are the same
              thing), have supported the ALP's election in every single election on
              record. Short of getting down and worshipping Latham over this, short of
              giving up the obligation of the left to criticise the ALP, I'm not sure waht
              you want us to say on this list.

              You never know, there might even be an article in next week's GLW on the US
              stuff ...

              MK
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