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Jewish Lesson to Muslim Citizens (AIS Newsletter -- April 2008)

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  • Paul RETI
    [Note: Australian Intercultural Society (the AIS) was established in the year 2000 by a small group of professional second generation Australian Muslims. For
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 1, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      [Note: "Australian Intercultural Society (the AIS) was
      established in the year 2000 by a small group of
      professional second generation Australian Muslims." For
      more, see http://www.intercultural.org.au/about.html . PmR]
      =========================================================

      Jewish Lesson to Muslim Citizens
      AIS Newsletter
      April 2008

      http://www.intercultural.org.au/edialogue/2008/apr/4page.htm
      l

      Education is the key to social integration, according to the
      Honourable Justice Howard Nathan, who spoke at the II
      National Social Cohesion Conference at the University of
      Melbourne on 24 February.

      Co-organised by the Australian Intercultural Society and the
      Anti Defamation Commission, the conference, titled ‘The
      Australian Jewish Experience and Challenges Faced by
      Muslims’, addressed the much discussed issue of the
      integration of the Muslim community into mainstream
      Australian society.

      Drawing on the history of the Jewish community in Australia,
      starting with the arrival of the First Fleet in 1788,
      Justice Nathan described the ‘good news story’ of the Jewish
      experience, attributing this to the literacy and numeracy
      which the Jewish community had already acquired.

      “Not only were they literate, but they were also numerate,
      which put them ahead of others and stood the Jews in good
      stead ever since,” stated the Supreme Court Judge.

      “Education, education, and yet more education was the key.”

      On the panel of speakers were Muslim speakers who shared
      their experience of the challenges that Muslims face in the
      climate of isolation and prejudice that they encounter.

      Muslim comedian and law student Nazeem Hussain reminded the
      audience of the powerful role of humour in illustrating
      serious issues, focusing on the young Muslim experience.

      Kazim Ates, businessman and active member of the Muslim
      community, highlighted some of the issues concerning Muslims
      and integration.

      While the concept of non Muslims was not new for the Turkish
      migrant, the experience of living in a predominantly
      non-Muslim environment engendered surprising results.

      “We actually discovered our religious and cultural identity
      here in Australia,” he stated.

      “We didn’t hear about Gallipoli until we got here.  We
      realised we had something in common and we could build on
      that.”
      Going to school in rural Victoria, Kazim quickly realised
      the importance of building upon shared values such as
      sportsmanship, loyalty and business ethics.

      Jewish speakers shared personal examples illustrating the
      significance and role that the education system, academia
      and institutions such as the Jewish Museum and other
      communal institutions established by the Jewish community
      had in
      the successful inclusion of the Jewish community in
      Australia.

      Dr Helen Light, Director of the Jewish Museum of Australia,
      considered the central role of the Jewish museums in
      Australia in opening doors and building bridges between the
      Jewish community and the wider Australian community.
      Built within the last thirty years, these museums offer a
      crucial space to present stories, construct identity and
      “transfer memory from one generation to another,” according
      to Dr Light.

      “While museums are secular organisations, they are important
      venues to discuss cultural identity and talk about
      religion.”

      Dr Light alluded to plans within the Muslim community to
      establish museums and discussed their place in helping
      communities achieve inclusion in wider society.

      “They teach the value of diversity, share the importance of
      respect between different people and provide a model of a
      community that has been able to make a real contribution to
      society.”
    • Romi Elnagar
      This article is patronizing and plainly insulting. Do Jews imagine that Muslims are ignorant hewers of wood and drawers of water? Perhaps in the Occupied
      Message 2 of 7 , Apr 1, 2008
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        This article is patronizing and plainly insulting.

        Do Jews imagine that Muslims are ignorant "hewers of wood and drawers
        of water?" Perhaps in the Occupied Territories, Zionists have
        succeeded in reducing the once well-educated Palestinian society to
        this condition, but I assure you that there are PLENTY of educated
        Muslims throughout the Middle East and Europe. Here in America, MOST
        of the Muslims I know are Ph.D.'s, and a few are college professors.

        Perhaps rather than tell Muslims to educate themselves, Jews should
        educate THEMSELVES about the true nature of Muslim/Arab civilization,
        a culture which kept alive learning when Europe was in the Dark Ages,
        and, not inconsequentially, supported learning and culture even among
        its own Jewish citizens in Andalusia and throughout the caliphate.

        Hajja Romi--- In GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com, "Paul RETI"
        <preti@...> wrote:
        >
        > [Note: "Australian Intercultural Society (the AIS) was
        > established in the year 2000 by a small group of
        > professional second generation Australian Muslims." For
        > more, see http://www.intercultural.org.au/about.html . PmR]
        > =========================================================
        >
        > Jewish Lesson to Muslim Citizens
        > AIS Newsletter
        > April 2008
        >
        > http://www.intercultural.org.au/edialogue/2008/apr/4page.htm
        > l
        >
        > Education is the key to social integration, according to the
        > Honourable Justice Howard Nathan, who spoke at the II
        > National Social Cohesion Conference at the University of
        > Melbourne on 24 February.
        >
        > Co-organised by the Australian Intercultural Society and the
        > Anti Defamation Commission, the conference, titled `The
        > Australian Jewish Experience and Challenges Faced by
        > Muslims', addressed the much discussed issue of the
        > integration of the Muslim community into mainstream
        > Australian society.
        >
        > Drawing on the history of the Jewish community in Australia,
        > starting with the arrival of the First Fleet in 1788,
        > Justice Nathan described the `good news story' of the Jewish
        > experience, attributing this to the literacy and numeracy
        > which the Jewish community had already acquired.
        >
        > "Not only were they literate, but they were also numerate,
        > which put them ahead of others and stood the Jews in good
        > stead ever since," stated the Supreme Court Judge.
        >
        > "Education, education, and yet more education was the key."
        >
        > On the panel of speakers were Muslim speakers who shared
        > their experience of the challenges that Muslims face in the
        > climate of isolation and prejudice that they encounter.
        >
        > Muslim comedian and law student Nazeem Hussain reminded the
        > audience of the powerful role of humour in illustrating
        > serious issues, focusing on the young Muslim experience.
        >
        > Kazim Ates, businessman and active member of the Muslim
        > community, highlighted some of the issues concerning Muslims
        > and integration.
        >
        > While the concept of non Muslims was not new for the Turkish
        > migrant, the experience of living in a predominantly
        > non-Muslim environment engendered surprising results.
        >
        > "We actually discovered our religious and cultural identity
        > here in Australia," he stated.
        >
        > "We didn't hear about Gallipoli until we got here.  We
        > realised we had something in common and we could build on
        > that."
        > Going to school in rural Victoria, Kazim quickly realised
        > the importance of building upon shared values such as
        > sportsmanship, loyalty and business ethics.
        >
        > Jewish speakers shared personal examples illustrating the
        > significance and role that the education system, academia
        > and institutions such as the Jewish Museum and other
        > communal institutions established by the Jewish community
        > had in
        > the successful inclusion of the Jewish community in
        > Australia.
        >
        > Dr Helen Light, Director of the Jewish Museum of Australia,
        > considered the central role of the Jewish museums in
        > Australia in opening doors and building bridges between the
        > Jewish community and the wider Australian community.
        > Built within the last thirty years, these museums offer a
        > crucial space to present stories, construct identity and
        > "transfer memory from one generation to another," according
        > to Dr Light.
        >
        > "While museums are secular organisations, they are important
        > venues to discuss cultural identity and talk about
        > religion."
        >
        > Dr Light alluded to plans within the Muslim community to
        > establish museums and discussed their place in helping
        > communities achieve inclusion in wider society.
        >
        > "They teach the value of diversity, share the importance of
        > respect between different people and provide a model of a
        > community that has been able to make a real contribution to
        > society."
        >
      • Paul RETI
        Dear Romi, You really seem very paranoid and blinkered. Did you notice that this was written and published by a Muslim organisation, for THEIR audience. It is
        Message 3 of 7 , Apr 2, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Dear Romi,

          You really seem very paranoid and blinkered.

          Did you notice that this was written and published by a
          Muslim organisation,
          for THEIR audience.

          It is THEIR perception of the highlights of an interfaith
          conference THEY organised.

          It seems to me Romi that it is you who is
          "PATRONIZING AND PLAINLY INSULTING"
          a Muslim organisation that is trying to
          heal divisions within the Abrahamic
          community with sincerity and integrity.

          Jews TOLD the Muslims, NOTHING. That is just not done at
          interfaith conferences, even by evil Jews. The Muslim writer
          seems to be reporting what s/he thought was relevant to and
          may be useful to his/her community.

          Be well...
          Paul RETI
          Sydney OZ

          -----Original Message-----
          From: GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
          Romi Elnagar
          Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 5:44 AM
          To: GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [GreenLeft_discussion] Re: Jewish Lesson to Muslim
          Citizens (AIS Newsletter -- April 2008)

          This article is patronizing and plainly insulting.

          Do Jews imagine that Muslims are ignorant "hewers of wood
          and drawers
          of water?" Perhaps in the Occupied Territories, Zionists
          have
          succeeded in reducing the once well-educated Palestinian
          society to
          this condition, but I assure you that there are PLENTY of
          educated
          Muslims throughout the Middle East and Europe. Here in
          America, MOST
          of the Muslims I know are Ph.D.'s, and a few are college
          professors.

          Perhaps rather than tell Muslims to educate themselves, Jews
          should
          educate THEMSELVES about the true nature of Muslim/Arab
          civilization,
          a culture which kept alive learning when Europe was in the
          Dark Ages,
          and, not inconsequentially, supported learning and culture
          even among
          its own Jewish citizens in Andalusia and throughout the
          caliphate.

          Hajja Romi--- In GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com, "Paul
          RETI"
          <preti@...> wrote:
          >
          > [Note: "Australian Intercultural Society (the AIS) was
          > established in the year 2000 by a small group of
          > professional second generation Australian Muslims." For
          > more, see http://www.intercultural.org.au/about.html .
          PmR]
          > =========================================================
          >
          > Jewish Lesson to Muslim Citizens
          > AIS Newsletter
          > April 2008
          >
          >
          http://www.intercultural.org.au/edialogue/2008/apr/4page.htm
          > l
          >
          > Education is the key to social integration, according to
          the
          > Honourable Justice Howard Nathan, who spoke at the II
          > National Social Cohesion Conference at the University of
          > Melbourne on 24 February.
          >
          > Co-organised by the Australian Intercultural Society and
          the
          > Anti Defamation Commission, the conference, titled `The
          > Australian Jewish Experience and Challenges Faced by
          > Muslims', addressed the much discussed issue of the
          > integration of the Muslim community into mainstream
          > Australian society.
          >
          > Drawing on the history of the Jewish community in
          Australia,
          > starting with the arrival of the First Fleet in 1788,
          > Justice Nathan described the `good news story' of the
          Jewish
          > experience, attributing this to the literacy and numeracy
          > which the Jewish community had already acquired.
          >
          > "Not only were they literate, but they were also numerate,
          > which put them ahead of others and stood the Jews in good
          > stead ever since," stated the Supreme Court Judge.
          >
          > "Education, education, and yet more education was the
          key."
          >
          > On the panel of speakers were Muslim speakers who shared
          > their experience of the challenges that Muslims face in
          the
          > climate of isolation and prejudice that they encounter.
          >
          > Muslim comedian and law student Nazeem Hussain reminded
          the
          > audience of the powerful role of humour in illustrating
          > serious issues, focusing on the young Muslim experience.
          >
          > Kazim Ates, businessman and active member of the Muslim
          > community, highlighted some of the issues concerning
          Muslims
          > and integration.
          >
          > While the concept of non Muslims was not new for the
          Turkish
          > migrant, the experience of living in a predominantly
          > non-Muslim environment engendered surprising results.
          >
          > "We actually discovered our religious and cultural
          identity
          > here in Australia," he stated.
          >
          > "We didn't hear about Gallipoli until we got here.  We
          > realised we had something in common and we could build on
          > that."
          > Going to school in rural Victoria, Kazim quickly realised
          > the importance of building upon shared values such as
          > sportsmanship, loyalty and business ethics.
          >
          > Jewish speakers shared personal examples illustrating the
          > significance and role that the education system, academia
          > and institutions such as the Jewish Museum and other
          > communal institutions established by the Jewish community
          > had in
          > the successful inclusion of the Jewish community in
          > Australia.
          >
          > Dr Helen Light, Director of the Jewish Museum of
          Australia,
          > considered the central role of the Jewish museums in
          > Australia in opening doors and building bridges between
          the
          > Jewish community and the wider Australian community.
          > Built within the last thirty years, these museums offer a
          > crucial space to present stories, construct identity and
          > "transfer memory from one generation to another,"
          according
          > to Dr Light.
          >
          > "While museums are secular organisations, they are
          important
          > venues to discuss cultural identity and talk about
          > religion."
          >
          > Dr Light alluded to plans within the Muslim community to
          > establish museums and discussed their place in helping
          > communities achieve inclusion in wider society.
          >
          > "They teach the value of diversity, share the importance
          of
          > respect between different people and provide a model of a
          > community that has been able to make a real contribution
          to
          > society."
          >



          ------------------------------------

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        • Romi Elnagar
          Paul, In the past, your posts to this group have been hostile to Muslims. The first link cited in the post--had I wanted to bother checking into with what was
          Message 4 of 7 , Apr 2, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Paul,

            In the past, your posts to this group have been hostile to Muslims.
            The first link cited in the post--had I wanted to bother checking
            into with what was probably going to be more hate and prejudice--is
            dead, and the reference to an "anti-defamation" organization here in
            America would indicate Jewish influence, as does the name of one of
            the principal speakers, "Nathn."


            If you are really sincere in your concern for Muslims, a more
            appropriate response from you now would be to apologize for the
            confusion your apparent change of heart causes. Aside from your
            identification of AIS as a Muslim group, there is little in the
            message that would convince me that in fact it originates from a
            Muslim group. Unfortunately, my experience with Jews has not led me
            to trust their word, and certainly not YOUR word, for much of
            anything, including identifying AIS as a "Muslim" organization,
            whatever you think that means (and--yes--it could include quislings).

            One might almost think that you had posted this article as an attempt
            to bait Muslims on the list. If so, you should be congratulated at
            your success, and my suspicions about the arrogance with which
            Zionists regard Arabs and Palestinians and Arabs in general are only
            increased.

            Hajja Romi

            --- In GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com, "Paul RETI" <preti@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Dear Romi,
            >
            > You really seem very paranoid and blinkered.
            >
            > Did you notice that this was written and published by a
            > Muslim organisation,
            > for THEIR audience.
            >
            > It is THEIR perception of the highlights of an interfaith
            > conference THEY organised.
            >
            > It seems to me Romi that it is you who is
            > "PATRONIZING AND PLAINLY INSULTING"
            > a Muslim organisation that is trying to
            > heal divisions within the Abrahamic
            > community with sincerity and integrity.
            >
            > Jews TOLD the Muslims, NOTHING. That is just not done at
            > interfaith conferences, even by evil Jews. The Muslim writer
            > seems to be reporting what s/he thought was relevant to and
            > may be useful to his/her community.
            >
            > Be well...
            > Paul RETI
            > Sydney OZ
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com
            > [mailto:GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
            > Romi Elnagar
            > Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 5:44 AM
            > To: GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [GreenLeft_discussion] Re: Jewish Lesson to Muslim
            > Citizens (AIS Newsletter -- April 2008)
            >
            > This article is patronizing and plainly insulting.
            >
            > Do Jews imagine that Muslims are ignorant "hewers of wood
            > and drawers
            > of water?" Perhaps in the Occupied Territories, Zionists
            > have
            > succeeded in reducing the once well-educated Palestinian
            > society to
            > this condition, but I assure you that there are PLENTY of
            > educated
            > Muslims throughout the Middle East and Europe. Here in
            > America, MOST
            > of the Muslims I know are Ph.D.'s, and a few are college
            > professors.
            >
            > Perhaps rather than tell Muslims to educate themselves, Jews
            > should
            > educate THEMSELVES about the true nature of Muslim/Arab
            > civilization,
            > a culture which kept alive learning when Europe was in the
            > Dark Ages,
            > and, not inconsequentially, supported learning and culture
            > even among
            > its own Jewish citizens in Andalusia and throughout the
            > caliphate.
            >
            > Hajja Romi--- In GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com, "Paul
            > RETI"
            > <preti@> wrote:
            > >
            > > [Note: "Australian Intercultural Society (the AIS) was
            > > established in the year 2000 by a small group of
            > > professional second generation Australian Muslims." For
            > > more, see http://www.intercultural.org.au/about.html .
            > PmR]
            > > =========================================================
            > >
            > > Jewish Lesson to Muslim Citizens
            > > AIS Newsletter
            > > April 2008
            > >
            > >
            > http://www.intercultural.org.au/edialogue/2008/apr/4page.htm
            > > l
            > >
            > > Education is the key to social integration, according to
            > the
            > > Honourable Justice Howard Nathan, who spoke at the II
            > > National Social Cohesion Conference at the University of
            > > Melbourne on 24 February.
            > >
            > > Co-organised by the Australian Intercultural Society and
            > the
            > > Anti Defamation Commission, the conference, titled `The
            > > Australian Jewish Experience and Challenges Faced by
            > > Muslims', addressed the much discussed issue of the
            > > integration of the Muslim community into mainstream
            > > Australian society.
            > >
            > > Drawing on the history of the Jewish community in
            > Australia,
            > > starting with the arrival of the First Fleet in 1788,
            > > Justice Nathan described the `good news story' of the
            > Jewish
            > > experience, attributing this to the literacy and numeracy
            > > which the Jewish community had already acquired.
            > >
            > > "Not only were they literate, but they were also numerate,
            > > which put them ahead of others and stood the Jews in good
            > > stead ever since," stated the Supreme Court Judge.
            > >
            > > "Education, education, and yet more education was the
            > key."
            > >
            > > On the panel of speakers were Muslim speakers who shared
            > > their experience of the challenges that Muslims face in
            > the
            > > climate of isolation and prejudice that they encounter.
            > >
            > > Muslim comedian and law student Nazeem Hussain reminded
            > the
            > > audience of the powerful role of humour in illustrating
            > > serious issues, focusing on the young Muslim experience.
            > >
            > > Kazim Ates, businessman and active member of the Muslim
            > > community, highlighted some of the issues concerning
            > Muslims
            > > and integration.
            > >
            > > While the concept of non Muslims was not new for the
            > Turkish
            > > migrant, the experience of living in a predominantly
            > > non-Muslim environment engendered surprising results.
            > >
            > > "We actually discovered our religious and cultural
            > identity
            > > here in Australia," he stated.
            > >
            > > "We didn't hear about Gallipoli until we got here.  We
            > > realised we had something in common and we could build on
            > > that."
            > > Going to school in rural Victoria, Kazim quickly realised
            > > the importance of building upon shared values such as
            > > sportsmanship, loyalty and business ethics.
            > >
            > > Jewish speakers shared personal examples illustrating the
            > > significance and role that the education system, academia
            > > and institutions such as the Jewish Museum and other
            > > communal institutions established by the Jewish community
            > > had in
            > > the successful inclusion of the Jewish community in
            > > Australia.
            > >
            > > Dr Helen Light, Director of the Jewish Museum of
            > Australia,
            > > considered the central role of the Jewish museums in
            > > Australia in opening doors and building bridges between
            > the
            > > Jewish community and the wider Australian community.
            > > Built within the last thirty years, these museums offer a
            > > crucial space to present stories, construct identity and
            > > "transfer memory from one generation to another,"
            > according
            > > to Dr Light.
            > >
            > > "While museums are secular organisations, they are
            > important
            > > venues to discuss cultural identity and talk about
            > > religion."
            > >
            > > Dr Light alluded to plans within the Muslim community to
            > > establish museums and discussed their place in helping
            > > communities achieve inclusion in wider society.
            > >
            > > "They teach the value of diversity, share the importance
            > of
            > > respect between different people and provide a model of a
            > > community that has been able to make a real contribution
            > to
            > > society."
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Green Left Weekly depends on your support!
            >
            > Subscribe to Green Left Weekly!
            > http://www.greenleft.org.au/subscribe.htm
            >
            > Make a donation to help Green Left Weekly continue!
            > http://www.greenleft.org.au/fogl.htm
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
          • Mikhail S
            My probably unwelcomed two cents, I dont know a whole load about Paul, but at least on one point the man is dead on, AIS is a Muslim organization, all you
            Message 5 of 7 , Apr 2, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              My probably unwelcomed two cents, I dont know a whole
              load about Paul, but at least on one point the man is
              dead on, AIS is a Muslim organization, all you really
              have to do is read their webpage. Besides that this
              one statement "Unfortunately, my experience with
              Jews has not led me to trust their word" is both
              disturbing and sad as can be. Frankly the whole tone
              of this note does indeed seem paranoid.
              Mikhail
              --- Romi Elnagar <bluesapphire48@...> wrote:

              > Paul,
              >
              > In the past, your posts to this group have been
              > hostile to Muslims.
              > The first link cited in the post--had I wanted to
              > bother checking
              > into with what was probably going to be more hate
              > and prejudice--is
              > dead, and the reference to an "anti-defamation"
              > organization here in
              > America would indicate Jewish influence, as does the
              > name of one of
              > the principal speakers, "Nathn."
              >
              >
              > If you are really sincere in your concern for
              > Muslims, a more
              > appropriate response from you now would be to
              > apologize for the
              > confusion your apparent change of heart causes.
              > Aside from your
              > identification of AIS as a Muslim group, there is
              > little in the
              > message that would convince me that in fact it
              > originates from a
              > Muslim group. Unfortunately, my experience with
              > Jews has not led me
              > to trust their word, and certainly not YOUR word,
              > for much of
              > anything, including identifying AIS as a "Muslim"
              > organization,
              > whatever you think that means (and--yes--it could
              > include quislings).
              >
              > One might almost think that you had posted this
              > article as an attempt
              > to bait Muslims on the list. If so, you should be
              > congratulated at
              > your success, and my suspicions about the arrogance
              > with which
              > Zionists regard Arabs and Palestinians and Arabs in
              > general are only
              > increased.
              >
              > Hajja Romi
              >
              > --- In GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com, "Paul
              > RETI" <preti@...>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > Dear Romi,
              > >
              > > You really seem very paranoid and blinkered.
              > >
              > > Did you notice that this was written and published
              > by a
              > > Muslim organisation,
              > > for THEIR audience.
              > >
              > > It is THEIR perception of the highlights of an
              > interfaith
              > > conference THEY organised.
              > >
              > > It seems to me Romi that it is you who is
              > > "PATRONIZING AND PLAINLY INSULTING"
              > > a Muslim organisation that is trying to
              > > heal divisions within the Abrahamic
              > > community with sincerity and integrity.
              > >
              > > Jews TOLD the Muslims, NOTHING. That is just not
              > done at
              > > interfaith conferences, even by evil Jews. The
              > Muslim writer
              > > seems to be reporting what s/he thought was
              > relevant to and
              > > may be useful to his/her community.
              > >
              > > Be well...
              > > Paul RETI
              > > Sydney OZ
              > >
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > From: GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com
              > > [mailto:GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com] On
              > Behalf Of
              > > Romi Elnagar
              > > Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 5:44 AM
              > > To: GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com
              > > Subject: [GreenLeft_discussion] Re: Jewish Lesson
              > to Muslim
              > > Citizens (AIS Newsletter -- April 2008)
              > >
              > > This article is patronizing and plainly insulting.
              > >
              > > Do Jews imagine that Muslims are ignorant "hewers
              > of wood
              > > and drawers
              > > of water?" Perhaps in the Occupied Territories,
              > Zionists
              > > have
              > > succeeded in reducing the once well-educated
              > Palestinian
              > > society to
              > > this condition, but I assure you that there are
              > PLENTY of
              > > educated
              > > Muslims throughout the Middle East and Europe.
              > Here in
              > > America, MOST
              > > of the Muslims I know are Ph.D.'s, and a few are
              > college
              > > professors.
              > >
              > > Perhaps rather than tell Muslims to educate
              > themselves, Jews
              > > should
              > > educate THEMSELVES about the true nature of
              > Muslim/Arab
              > > civilization,
              > > a culture which kept alive learning when Europe
              > was in the
              > > Dark Ages,
              > > and, not inconsequentially, supported learning and
              > culture
              > > even among
              > > its own Jewish citizens in Andalusia and
              > throughout the
              > > caliphate.
              > >
              > > Hajja Romi--- In
              > GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com, "Paul
              > > RETI"
              > > <preti@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > [Note: "Australian Intercultural Society (the
              > AIS) was
              > > > established in the year 2000 by a small group of
              > > > professional second generation Australian
              > Muslims." For
              > > > more, see
              > http://www.intercultural.org.au/about.html .
              > > PmR]
              > > >
              >
              =========================================================
              > > >
              > > > Jewish Lesson to Muslim Citizens
              > > > AIS Newsletter
              > > > April 2008
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
              http://www.intercultural.org.au/edialogue/2008/apr/4page.htm
              > > > l
              > > >
              > > > Education is the key to social integration,
              > according to
              > > the
              > > > Honourable Justice Howard Nathan, who spoke at
              > the II
              > > > National Social Cohesion Conference at the
              > University of
              > > > Melbourne on 24 February.
              > > >
              > > > Co-organised by the Australian Intercultural
              > Society and
              > > the
              > > > Anti Defamation Commission, the conference,
              > titled `The
              > > > Australian Jewish Experience and Challenges
              > Faced by
              > > > Muslims', addressed the much discussed issue of
              > the
              > > > integration of the Muslim community into
              > mainstream
              > > > Australian society.
              > > >
              > > > Drawing on the history of the Jewish community
              > in
              > > Australia,
              > > > starting with the arrival of the First Fleet in
              > 1788,
              > > > Justice Nathan described the `good news story'
              > of the
              > > Jewish
              > > > experience, attributing this to the literacy and
              > numeracy
              > > > which the Jewish community had already acquired.
              > > >
              > > > "Not only were they literate, but they were also
              > numerate,
              > > > which put them ahead of others and stood the
              > Jews in good
              > > > stead ever since," stated the Supreme Court
              > Judge.
              > > >
              > > > "Education, education, and yet more education
              > was the
              > > key."
              > > >
              > > > On the panel of speakers were Muslim speakers
              > who shared
              >
              === message truncated ===



              ____________________________________________________________________________________
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            • Romi Elnagar
              Thank you for your opinion. I hope that you do not feel that Palestinians are paranoid because they suspect that Zionists might want to kill them. I invite you
              Message 6 of 7 , Apr 2, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Thank you for your opinion.

                I hope that you do not feel that Palestinians are paranoid because
                they suspect that Zionists might want to kill them.

                I invite you to go back and read Mr. Reti's earlier posts to this
                group about Muslims. Then, perhaps if you have ever been the target
                of prejudice and race-hate, you will understand why it is difficult
                for me to open any post of his about Muslims and feel that it was
                submitted with the compassion, fair-mindedness and sensitivity that
                one should expect from a group that purports to be on the "Left."

                Hajja Romi



                Nearly thirty--- In GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com, Mikhail S
                <mikhail_s2000@...> wrote:
                >
                > My probably unwelcomed two cents, I dont know a whole
                > load about Paul, but at least on one point the man is
                > dead on, AIS is a Muslim organization, all you really
                > have to do is read their webpage. Besides that this
                > one statement "Unfortunately, my experience with
                > Jews has not led me to trust their word" is both
                > disturbing and sad as can be. Frankly the whole tone
                > of this note does indeed seem paranoid.
                > Mikhail
                > --- Romi Elnagar <bluesapphire48@...> wrote:
                >
                > > Paul,
                > >
                > > In the past, your posts to this group have been
                > > hostile to Muslims.
                > > The first link cited in the post--had I wanted to
                > > bother checking
                > > into with what was probably going to be more hate
                > > and prejudice--is
                > > dead, and the reference to an "anti-defamation"
                > > organization here in
                > > America would indicate Jewish influence, as does the
                > > name of one of
                > > the principal speakers, "Nathn."
                > >
                > >
                > > If you are really sincere in your concern for
                > > Muslims, a more
                > > appropriate response from you now would be to
                > > apologize for the
                > > confusion your apparent change of heart causes.
                > > Aside from your
                > > identification of AIS as a Muslim group, there is
                > > little in the
                > > message that would convince me that in fact it
                > > originates from a
                > > Muslim group. Unfortunately, my experience with
                > > Jews has not led me
                > > to trust their word, and certainly not YOUR word,
                > > for much of
                > > anything, including identifying AIS as a "Muslim"
                > > organization,
                > > whatever you think that means (and--yes--it could
                > > include quislings).
                > >
                > > One might almost think that you had posted this
                > > article as an attempt
                > > to bait Muslims on the list. If so, you should be
                > > congratulated at
                > > your success, and my suspicions about the arrogance
                > > with which
                > > Zionists regard Arabs and Palestinians and Arabs in
                > > general are only
                > > increased.
                > >
                > > Hajja Romi
                > >
                > > --- In GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com, "Paul
                > > RETI" <preti@>
                > > wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Dear Romi,
                > > >
                > > > You really seem very paranoid and blinkered.
                > > >
                > > > Did you notice that this was written and published
                > > by a
                > > > Muslim organisation,
                > > > for THEIR audience.
                > > >
                > > > It is THEIR perception of the highlights of an
                > > interfaith
                > > > conference THEY organised.
                > > >
                > > > It seems to me Romi that it is you who is
                > > > "PATRONIZING AND PLAINLY INSULTING"
                > > > a Muslim organisation that is trying to
                > > > heal divisions within the Abrahamic
                > > > community with sincerity and integrity.
                > > >
                > > > Jews TOLD the Muslims, NOTHING. That is just not
                > > done at
                > > > interfaith conferences, even by evil Jews. The
                > > Muslim writer
                > > > seems to be reporting what s/he thought was
                > > relevant to and
                > > > may be useful to his/her community.
                > > >
                > > > Be well...
                > > > Paul RETI
                > > > Sydney OZ
                > > >
                > > > -----Original Message-----
                > > > From: GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com
                > > > [mailto:GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com] On
                > > Behalf Of
                > > > Romi Elnagar
                > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 5:44 AM
                > > > To: GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com
                > > > Subject: [GreenLeft_discussion] Re: Jewish Lesson
                > > to Muslim
                > > > Citizens (AIS Newsletter -- April 2008)
                > > >
                > > > This article is patronizing and plainly insulting.
                > > >
                > > > Do Jews imagine that Muslims are ignorant "hewers
                > > of wood
                > > > and drawers
                > > > of water?" Perhaps in the Occupied Territories,
                > > Zionists
                > > > have
                > > > succeeded in reducing the once well-educated
                > > Palestinian
                > > > society to
                > > > this condition, but I assure you that there are
                > > PLENTY of
                > > > educated
                > > > Muslims throughout the Middle East and Europe.
                > > Here in
                > > > America, MOST
                > > > of the Muslims I know are Ph.D.'s, and a few are
                > > college
                > > > professors.
                > > >
                > > > Perhaps rather than tell Muslims to educate
                > > themselves, Jews
                > > > should
                > > > educate THEMSELVES about the true nature of
                > > Muslim/Arab
                > > > civilization,
                > > > a culture which kept alive learning when Europe
                > > was in the
                > > > Dark Ages,
                > > > and, not inconsequentially, supported learning and
                > > culture
                > > > even among
                > > > its own Jewish citizens in Andalusia and
                > > throughout the
                > > > caliphate.
                > > >
                > > > Hajja Romi--- In
                > > GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com, "Paul
                > > > RETI"
                > > > <preti@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > [Note: "Australian Intercultural Society (the
                > > AIS) was
                > > > > established in the year 2000 by a small group of
                > > > > professional second generation Australian
                > > Muslims." For
                > > > > more, see
                > > http://www.intercultural.org.au/about.html .
                > > > PmR]
                > > > >
                > >
                > =========================================================
                > > > >
                > > > > Jewish Lesson to Muslim Citizens
                > > > > AIS Newsletter
                > > > > April 2008
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > http://www.intercultural.org.au/edialogue/2008/apr/4page.htm
                > > > > l
                > > > >
                > > > > Education is the key to social integration,
                > > according to
                > > > the
                > > > > Honourable Justice Howard Nathan, who spoke at
                > > the II
                > > > > National Social Cohesion Conference at the
                > > University of
                > > > > Melbourne on 24 February.
                > > > >
                > > > > Co-organised by the Australian Intercultural
                > > Society and
                > > > the
                > > > > Anti Defamation Commission, the conference,
                > > titled `The
                > > > > Australian Jewish Experience and Challenges
                > > Faced by
                > > > > Muslims', addressed the much discussed issue of
                > > the
                > > > > integration of the Muslim community into
                > > mainstream
                > > > > Australian society.
                > > > >
                > > > > Drawing on the history of the Jewish community
                > > in
                > > > Australia,
                > > > > starting with the arrival of the First Fleet in
                > > 1788,
                > > > > Justice Nathan described the `good news story'
                > > of the
                > > > Jewish
                > > > > experience, attributing this to the literacy and
                > > numeracy
                > > > > which the Jewish community had already acquired.
                > > > >
                > > > > "Not only were they literate, but they were also
                > > numerate,
                > > > > which put them ahead of others and stood the
                > > Jews in good
                > > > > stead ever since," stated the Supreme Court
                > > Judge.
                > > > >
                > > > > "Education, education, and yet more education
                > > was the
                > > > key."
                > > > >
                > > > > On the panel of speakers were Muslim speakers
                > > who shared
                > >
                > === message truncated ===
                >
                >
                >
                >
                ______________________________________________________________________
                ______________
                > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of
                Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
                > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com
                >
              • Paul RETI
                Dear Romi I really do not think or behave the way you do. I also do not demonize others. You demonstrate ... That does not surprise or bother me. You implied
                Message 7 of 7 , Apr 3, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  Dear Romi

                  I really do not think or behave the way you do.

                  I also do not demonize others. You demonstrate
                  that so very clearly with:

                  >> "Unfortunately, my experience with Jews has
                  >> not led me to trust their word,"

                  That does not surprise or bother me. You implied
                  that too often before. Your obvious honesty
                  now though is refreshing.

                  Be well...
                  Paul RETI
                  Sydney OZ

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com
                  [mailto:GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  Romi Elnagar
                  Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 6:26 AM
                  To: GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [GreenLeft_discussion] Re: Jewish Lesson to Muslim
                  Citizens (AIS Newsletter -- April 2008)

                  Paul,

                  In the past, your posts to this group have been hostile to
                  Muslims.
                  The first link cited in the post--had I wanted to bother
                  checking
                  into with what was probably going to be more hate and
                  prejudice--is
                  dead, and the reference to an "anti-defamation" organization
                  here in
                  America would indicate Jewish influence, as does the name of
                  one of
                  the principal speakers, "Nathn."


                  If you are really sincere in your concern for Muslims, a
                  more
                  appropriate response from you now would be to apologize for
                  the
                  confusion your apparent change of heart causes. Aside from
                  your
                  identification of AIS as a Muslim group, there is little in
                  the
                  message that would convince me that in fact it originates
                  from a
                  Muslim group. Unfortunately, my experience with Jews has
                  not led me
                  to trust their word, and certainly not YOUR word, for much
                  of
                  anything, including identifying AIS as a "Muslim"
                  organization,
                  whatever you think that means (and--yes--it could include
                  quislings).

                  One might almost think that you had posted this article as
                  an attempt
                  to bait Muslims on the list. If so, you should be
                  congratulated at
                  your success, and my suspicions about the arrogance with
                  which
                  Zionists regard Arabs and Palestinians and Arabs in general
                  are only
                  increased.

                  Hajja Romi

                  --- In GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com, "Paul RETI"
                  <preti@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Dear Romi,
                  >
                  > You really seem very paranoid and blinkered.
                  >
                  > Did you notice that this was written and published by a
                  > Muslim organisation,
                  > for THEIR audience.
                  >
                  > It is THEIR perception of the highlights of an interfaith
                  > conference THEY organised.
                  >
                  > It seems to me Romi that it is you who is
                  > "PATRONIZING AND PLAINLY INSULTING"
                  > a Muslim organisation that is trying to
                  > heal divisions within the Abrahamic
                  > community with sincerity and integrity.
                  >
                  > Jews TOLD the Muslims, NOTHING. That is just not done at
                  > interfaith conferences, even by evil Jews. The Muslim
                  writer
                  > seems to be reporting what s/he thought was relevant to
                  and
                  > may be useful to his/her community.
                  >
                  > Be well...
                  > Paul RETI
                  > Sydney OZ
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com
                  > [mailto:GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  > Romi Elnagar
                  > Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 5:44 AM
                  > To: GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [GreenLeft_discussion] Re: Jewish Lesson to
                  Muslim
                  > Citizens (AIS Newsletter -- April 2008)
                  >
                  > This article is patronizing and plainly insulting.
                  >
                  > Do Jews imagine that Muslims are ignorant "hewers of wood
                  > and drawers
                  > of water?" Perhaps in the Occupied Territories, Zionists
                  > have
                  > succeeded in reducing the once well-educated Palestinian
                  > society to
                  > this condition, but I assure you that there are PLENTY of
                  > educated
                  > Muslims throughout the Middle East and Europe. Here in
                  > America, MOST
                  > of the Muslims I know are Ph.D.'s, and a few are college
                  > professors.
                  >
                  > Perhaps rather than tell Muslims to educate themselves,
                  Jews
                  > should
                  > educate THEMSELVES about the true nature of Muslim/Arab
                  > civilization,
                  > a culture which kept alive learning when Europe was in the
                  > Dark Ages,
                  > and, not inconsequentially, supported learning and culture
                  > even among
                  > its own Jewish citizens in Andalusia and throughout the
                  > caliphate.
                  >
                  > Hajja Romi--- In GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com,
                  "Paul
                  > RETI"
                  > <preti@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > [Note: "Australian Intercultural Society (the AIS) was
                  > > established in the year 2000 by a small group of
                  > > professional second generation Australian Muslims." For
                  > > more, see http://www.intercultural.org.au/about.html .
                  > PmR]
                  > >
                  =========================================================
                  > >
                  > > Jewish Lesson to Muslim Citizens
                  > > AIS Newsletter
                  > > April 2008
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  http://www.intercultural.org.au/edialogue/2008/apr/4page.htm
                  > > l
                  > >
                  > > Education is the key to social integration, according to
                  > the
                  > > Honourable Justice Howard Nathan, who spoke at the II
                  > > National Social Cohesion Conference at the University of
                  > > Melbourne on 24 February.
                  > >
                  > > Co-organised by the Australian Intercultural Society and
                  > the
                  > > Anti Defamation Commission, the conference, titled `The
                  > > Australian Jewish Experience and Challenges Faced by
                  > > Muslims', addressed the much discussed issue of the
                  > > integration of the Muslim community into mainstream
                  > > Australian society.
                  > >
                  > > Drawing on the history of the Jewish community in
                  > Australia,
                  > > starting with the arrival of the First Fleet in 1788,
                  > > Justice Nathan described the `good news story' of the
                  > Jewish
                  > > experience, attributing this to the literacy and
                  numeracy
                  > > which the Jewish community had already acquired.
                  > >
                  > > "Not only were they literate, but they were also
                  numerate,
                  > > which put them ahead of others and stood the Jews in
                  good
                  > > stead ever since," stated the Supreme Court Judge.
                  > >
                  > > "Education, education, and yet more education was the
                  > key."
                  > >
                  > > On the panel of speakers were Muslim speakers who shared
                  > > their experience of the challenges that Muslims face in
                  > the
                  > > climate of isolation and prejudice that they encounter.
                  > >
                  > > Muslim comedian and law student Nazeem Hussain reminded
                  > the
                  > > audience of the powerful role of humour in illustrating
                  > > serious issues, focusing on the young Muslim experience.
                  > >
                  > > Kazim Ates, businessman and active member of the Muslim
                  > > community, highlighted some of the issues concerning
                  > Muslims
                  > > and integration.
                  > >
                  > > While the concept of non Muslims was not new for the
                  > Turkish
                  > > migrant, the experience of living in a predominantly
                  > > non-Muslim environment engendered surprising results.
                  > >
                  > > "We actually discovered our religious and cultural
                  > identity
                  > > here in Australia," he stated.
                  > >
                  > > "We didn't hear about Gallipoli until we got here.  We
                  > > realised we had something in common and we could build
                  on
                  > > that."
                  > > Going to school in rural Victoria, Kazim quickly
                  realised
                  > > the importance of building upon shared values such as
                  > > sportsmanship, loyalty and business ethics.
                  > >
                  > > Jewish speakers shared personal examples illustrating
                  the
                  > > significance and role that the education system,
                  academia
                  > > and institutions such as the Jewish Museum and other
                  > > communal institutions established by the Jewish
                  community
                  > > had in
                  > > the successful inclusion of the Jewish community in
                  > > Australia.
                  > >
                  > > Dr Helen Light, Director of the Jewish Museum of
                  > Australia,
                  > > considered the central role of the Jewish museums in
                  > > Australia in opening doors and building bridges between
                  > the
                  > > Jewish community and the wider Australian community.
                  > > Built within the last thirty years, these museums offer
                  a
                  > > crucial space to present stories, construct identity and
                  > > "transfer memory from one generation to another,"
                  > according
                  > > to Dr Light.
                  > >
                  > > "While museums are secular organisations, they are
                  > important
                  > > venues to discuss cultural identity and talk about
                  > > religion."
                  > >
                  > > Dr Light alluded to plans within the Muslim community to
                  > > establish museums and discussed their place in helping
                  > > communities achieve inclusion in wider society.
                  > >
                  > > "They teach the value of diversity, share the importance
                  > of
                  > > respect between different people and provide a model of
                  a
                  > > community that has been able to make a real contribution
                  > to
                  > > society."
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
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