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Re: Timorese socialists backing Horta?!

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  • Peter Boyle
    ... We have heard the same, are seeking confirmation and more details, and we don t favour a Ramos-Horta presidential victory. A meeting of the DSP national
    Message 1 of 5 , May 3, 2007
      --- In GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com, "shamresearch"
      <shamresearch@...> wrote:
      >
      > Somebody put the following message on my blog
      > (http://www.readingthemaps.blogspot.com) today. If it's true, then
      > it tells us something pretty worrying about the Socialist Party of
      > Timor.
      >
      > ...
      > (https://lists.riseup.net/www/arc/east-timor/2007-05/msg00024.html)
      >
      > The Australian DSP has close ties to the PST and has used the
      > party's support for the Australian-led occupation as cover for its
      > own "troops in" policy on East Timor. Perhaps someone should ask
      > whether the DSP favours a Ramos-Horta presidential victory??"
      >

      We have heard the same, are seeking confirmation and more details, and
      we don't favour a Ramos-Horta presidential victory.

      A meeting of the DSP national committee adopted the following
      resolution last weekend:

      1. This meeting of the DSP National Committee reaffirms the position
      taken by the DSP National Executive in May 2006 that the current
      Australian military intervention into East Timor - unlike the
      intervention in 1999 which we campaigned for because it would advance
      the national liberation struggle - will not solve the underlying
      social and political crisis and marks a setback in the struggle.

      2. Australian imperialism's purpose in political and military
      intervention is to maintain order in the region in its role as
      regional "sheriff" to the major imperialist powers, defending the
      general interests of imperialism and capitalism as well as its direct
      interests in the region. Australian interference in East Timor has
      been ongoing and has not just begun with the latest intervention.

      3. The various factions of the East Timorese ruling elite, which has
      been a willing partner to imperialism in the attempted but failing
      bureaucratic construction of a capitalist neo-colonial state, have
      significant responsibility for the current situation. The factional
      breaking up of the East Timor armed forces, which was the immediate
      trigger for the 2006 political crisis, was a consequence of the
      demobilization of the heroic national liberation movement that
      developed in the years under Indonesian occupation.

      4. The current foreign military intervention was at the invitation of
      the then Fretilin government and the elected President, Xanana Gusmao,
      and appeared, at the time, to have the support of the full spectrum of
      East Timor politics, including the PST. However, while most of the
      political parties in East Timor (including the PST and Fretilin) still
      support the foreign troop presence, we note that there are now
      criticisms of the behaviour of Australian troops in East Timor and
      some calls for their removal.

      5. While we will not be raising the "troops out" demand at this
      stage, we do not rule out calling for "troops out" as the situation
      developsfurther and we should be politically prepared for such a
      switch. We should publicise and support calls or campaigns that emerge
      in East Timorese society against any anti-people behaviour by
      Australian or other foreign forces or any violations of East Timorese
      democraticrights or sovereignty.

      6. Despite our criticisms of the course of the liberation movement, we
      continue to strongly defend the right of the East Timorese to have an
      independent state and a government of their own choosing. Our support
      for oppressed nations' rights to self-determination remains the
      guiding principle in our position.

      7. We should continue to expose Australia's imperialist interest and
      involvement in trying to get the most compliant leadership possible
      for East Timor and other states in the region.
    • rogerraven
      It is entirely true that the foreign presence in East Timor can t solve the underlying social and political crisis. That presence is unfortunately
      Message 2 of 5 , May 4, 2007
        It is entirely true that the foreign presence in East Timor can't
        solve the underlying social and political crisis. That presence is
        unfortunately unavoidable, since withdrawing those forces would only
        worsen the situation. Paramilitary police would really be much more
        appropriate for East Timor than military forces.

        However, it is not an "Australian" one, it is an international
        presence in which the Australian presence is dominant. The
        Portuguese, for instance, appear to have their own agenda it.

        It is surprising that there aren't more incidents in East Timor given
        the potential for tensions within and between the various groups and
        the various foreign forces.

        Nevertheless, the biggest problem is not what those forces do or
        don't do, but that their presence is in itself destabilising in the
        longer run, being such a public statement of no confidence in East
        Timor's capacity to run its own affairs. Most political groups and
        many commentators inevitably focus on their presence rather than on
        the real issues.

        East Timor's problems are made more acute by bad management and bad
        leadership. As I have pointed out repeatedly, these issues are to
        some extent typical of all the littoral states. In fact, many are
        not that far off a revolutionary situation, albeit with no group to
        carry one out. They will no doubt follow the much more common
        alternative, which is social and economic collapse.

        External pressure to follow orthodox public policy, however
        unsuitable or destructive, is however one problem leftist groups can
        feasibly do something about. It is clear that neither of our two
        dominant conservative parties are fit to set any sort of decent
        example to any other government. Nor would they find sensible
        policies to be ideologically acceptable. Again as I have pointed
        out repeatedly, there is a space there for the left, and has been for
        at least eight years.

        If the DSP/SA is going to have a position on who should or shouldn't
        win, the Australian and other governments are entitled to do
        likewise. Perhaps what matters more is their motives and whether
        they are seeking the best for the people. That too is a matter for
        interpretation and misrepresentation.

        While the principle of self-determination is a good one, it shouldn't
        be used to excuse the excesses or inadequacies of a sovereign
        government. They should be supported and criticised according to
        their actions. Is it, for instance, a breach of East Timor's
        sovereignty to insist on measures to inhibit corruption? Corrupt
        decisionmakers will certainly insist that it is.

        Presumably the DSP has little or no contact with the PST. That is a
        pity. Even if the two parties disagree on important matters,
        dialogue helps.


        --- In GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Boyle"
        <peterb@...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com, "shamresearch"
        > <shamresearch@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Somebody put the following message on my blog
        > > (http://www.readingthemaps.blogspot.com) today. If it's true,
        then
        > > it tells us something pretty worrying about the Socialist Party
        of
        > > Timor.
        > >
        > > ...
        > > (https://lists.riseup.net/www/arc/east-timor/2007-
        05/msg00024.html)
        > >
        > > The Australian DSP has close ties to the PST and has used the
        > > party's support for the Australian-led occupation as cover for
        its
        > > own "troops in" policy on East Timor. Perhaps someone should ask
        > > whether the DSP favours a Ramos-Horta presidential victory??"
        > >
        >
        > We have heard the same, are seeking confirmation and more details,
        and
        > we don't favour a Ramos-Horta presidential victory.
        >
        > A meeting of the DSP national committee adopted the following
        > resolution last weekend:
        >
        > 1. This meeting of the DSP National Committee reaffirms the position
        > taken by the DSP National Executive in May 2006 that the current
        > Australian military intervention into East Timor - unlike the
        > intervention in 1999 which we campaigned for because it would
        advance
        > the national liberation struggle - will not solve the underlying
        > social and political crisis and marks a setback in the struggle.
        >
        > 2. Australian imperialism's purpose in political and military
        > intervention is to maintain order in the region in its role as
        > regional "sheriff" to the major imperialist powers, defending the
        > general interests of imperialism and capitalism as well as its
        direct
        > interests in the region. Australian interference in East Timor has
        > been ongoing and has not just begun with the latest intervention.
        >
        > 3. The various factions of the East Timorese ruling elite, which has
        > been a willing partner to imperialism in the attempted but failing
        > bureaucratic construction of a capitalist neo-colonial state, have
        > significant responsibility for the current situation. The factional
        > breaking up of the East Timor armed forces, which was the immediate
        > trigger for the 2006 political crisis, was a consequence of the
        > demobilization of the heroic national liberation movement that
        > developed in the years under Indonesian occupation.
        >
        > 4. The current foreign military intervention was at the invitation
        of
        > the then Fretilin government and the elected President, Xanana
        Gusmao,
        > and appeared, at the time, to have the support of the full spectrum
        of
        > East Timor politics, including the PST. However, while most of the
        > political parties in East Timor (including the PST and Fretilin)
        still
        > support the foreign troop presence, we note that there are now
        > criticisms of the behaviour of Australian troops in East Timor and
        > some calls for their removal.
        >
        > 5. While we will not be raising the "troops out" demand at this
        > stage, we do not rule out calling for "troops out" as the situation
        > developsfurther and we should be politically prepared for such a
        > switch. We should publicise and support calls or campaigns that
        emerge
        > in East Timorese society against any anti-people behaviour by
        > Australian or other foreign forces or any violations of East
        Timorese
        > democraticrights or sovereignty.
        >
        > 6. Despite our criticisms of the course of the liberation movement,
        we
        > continue to strongly defend the right of the East Timorese to have
        an
        > independent state and a government of their own choosing. Our
        support
        > for oppressed nations' rights to self-determination remains the
        > guiding principle in our position.
        >
        > 7. We should continue to expose Australia's imperialist interest and
        > involvement in trying to get the most compliant leadership possible
        > for East Timor and other states in the region.
        >
      • Peter Boyle
        Another commentary on the East Timor elections by Clinton Fernandes, author of Reluctant Saviour :
        Message 3 of 5 , May 4, 2007
          Another commentary on the East Timor elections by Clinton Fernandes,
          author of "Reluctant Saviour":

          <http://www.rtrfm.com.au/dreamgirl/filesend/945/ClintonFernandes_020507.mp3>
        • dave_r_riley
          ... ... I ve made the audio available as a streaming flash audio here:
          Message 4 of 5 , May 5, 2007
            --- In GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com, Peter Boyle <peterb@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Another commentary on the East Timor elections by Clinton Fernandes,
            > author of "Reluctant Saviour":
            >
            >
            <http://www.rtrfm.com.au/dreamgirl/filesend/945/ClintonFernandes_020507.mp3>
            >

            I've made the audio available as a streaming flash audio here:

            http://ratbaggy.blogspot.com/2007/05/elections-in-timor-leste.html
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