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Re: Good Bye Bob Gould

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  • bobgould987
    Gossip and real information By Bob Gould All these goodbyes seem to me a bit like the rumours of Oscar Wilde s death, a bit premature. I have no intention of
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 19, 2006
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      Gossip and real information

      By Bob Gould

      All these goodbyes seem to me a bit like the rumours of Oscar Wilde's
      death, a bit premature. I have no intention of going anywhere, and I
      plan, as Kim Bullimore has reluctantly conceded, to try to keep within
      the reasonable guidelines set by the moderator, who I thank for her
      fair-mindedness so far.

      All of this tit-for-tat abuse is getting boring, so I don't intend to
      take it any further after tonight unless something really outrageous
      is said by others. I think I'm reasonably entitled to one further
      response considering I've been accused all day of telling lies,
      without any specific lies or errors being referred to, other than by
      Kim Bullimore.

      Bullimore says my information about the DSP conference is incorrect
      because I got the voting numbers wrong, etc, etc, and she implies that
      I was wrong in the other key things that I talked about, one of which
      was the formation of the Leninist Faction as a permanent entity.
      Within an hour or two of Bullimore's post, the new DSP general
      secretary, Peter Boyle, posted his version of the voting pattern at
      the conference, and if you examine it carefully, his version is one
      vote different to mine. Big deal!

      He also says the proper name of the Percy-Lorimer group is the
      Leninist Party Faction, not the Leninist Faction. Boyle adds, however,
      another error to my list, he reckons I got it wrong about the weather.
      Well, we all react to weather in different ways. That weekend was a
      bit cooler than the previous couple of days, but it was still stifling
      and muggy. It's all in your point of view, particularly the weather.

      All the orthodox DSP posters today, pretty well, have implied that I
      tell lies. The reader is in a position to judge whether this is true.
      I certain wasn't telling lies about the general voting pattern at the
      conference and that the Percy group is now a permanent faction in the
      DSP. This was new information to many of the participants on the Green
      Left list.

      The DSP leadership supporters whip themselves into a lather about me
      being a gossip. Well, one person's gossip is someone else's useful
      information. What they really object to is me giving as accurate an
      account as I can manager of developments in the DSP. I contend that
      these developments are of real and legitimate interest to others on
      the left whose political lives are affected by the DSP's actions.

      It's eccentric hypocrisy to accuse me of gossip when quite a
      significant part of the reports, documents and contributions in the
      DSP internal bulletin consist of microscopic discussion of the
      internal affairs of other socialist groups and labour movement formations.

      In the real world, how can the DSP expect to be exempt from other
      people discussing its internal affairs in the same way that it
      discusses the internal affairs of other socialist groups?

      What the DSP critics of my socialist journalism really object to is
      not the occasional error that may creep in, which I will happily
      correct if it's proven to me, but the general accuracy of most of what
      I report.

      I seem to have driven Dale (Bye Bye Bob) Mills totally off his tree,
      as he keeps repeating a totally unspecific allegation that I tell
      untruths about him, and he won't allow me to even consider correcting
      what he says are untruths because he won't tell me what they are,
      which is obviously ridiculous.

      Mills is obviously deeply stung by the way Alan Bradley and I drew
      attention to the fact that the naive posture he initially adopted,
      about having never met a Labor leftist, was obvious demagogy. I guess
      I've lost a friend for life. C'est la vie.

      I don't intend to test the moderator's patience by having any more
      bites at this topic, unless someone says something totally outrageous
      about me that requires reply.

      I do intend in due course to take up the thread initiated by Nick
      Fredman and Norm Dixon on the Third Period and the united front. Those
      are at least political questions into which we can get our teeth.

      I note in passing that Dale Mills would dearly love to bounce me off
      the list and replace me with some, presumably naive, young person from
      NOLS. In my view, Mills would clearly like to make such a person a
      kind of Aunt Sally. Again, c'est la vie. That's unlikely to happen.
      Sorry, Dale.
    • Sol Salbe
      ... Bob, What ever disagreement you may have with Kim Bullimore surely you know that Kim did a great job with an intenrnational WOMEN s group in the Occupied
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 19, 2006
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        --- In GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com, "bobgould987"
        <bobgould987@y...> wrote:
        >
        > Gossip and real information
        >
        > By Bob Gould
        >

        Bob,

        What ever disagreement you may have with Kim Bullimore surely you know
        that Kim did a great job with an intenrnational WOMEN's group in the
        Occupied Palestinian Territories. Why do you keep referring to her as a
        he?

        Sol
      • Sol Salbe
        ... Apologies re previous message. I misread your contribution. [must have been the stifling weather :-)] Sol
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 19, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com, "bobgould987"
          <bobgould987@y...> wrote:
          >
          > Gossip and real information
          >
          > By Bob Gould
          >
          Apologies re previous message. I misread your contribution. [must have
          been the stifling weather :-)]

          Sol
        • D Omega
          “ PEACE …JUSTICE…RESPECT “ “ To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men . “ Abraham Lincoln , Formr US President LOBSTER No
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 19, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            “ PEACE …JUSTICE…RESPECT “
             
             
            “ To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men .  “ 
             
                            Abraham Lincoln , Formr US President  



            LOBSTER No 24; ISSN: 0964-0436; December 1992; Page 14
             
             
            6. There is also the International Network against Mind Control
            (INMC), Box 123 , 11479 Stockholm , Sweden . They have taken up
            the case of British resident, Kasaba Ntumba, who is one of a
            growing group of people who claim to have transmitted  /
            receivers inserted in their heads . In Mr Ntumba’s case , INMC have
            circulated what they say are photographs of X-ray of Mr
            Ntumba’s skull which appear to show…something, anyway . I
            have no medical knowledge , nor any way of knowing if these
            photographs are genuine or not . Since Mr Ntumba lives near
            London and is desperate to get journalists to X-ray his skull and
            See for themselves , my guest is there . I will be happy to
            forward letters to Mr Ntumba . The idea of implanting an electronic
            device in somebody’s head initially seems extraordinary . But a
            moment’s reflection on what we know has been done already-
            MK Ultra , ECT , lobotomy , et all – shows that this is just one more
            Step down the road . If the scientists can do it , they will do it . And
            Jose Delgado showed that it probably could be done
             
             
            Source : Lobster Magazine , Dec 1992 , UK .
             
             
            Dear friend and supporter ;
             
            We would like to thanks every body at Lobster magazine ,
            And especially Robin Ramsay for their courage and support
            By publishing this case to highlight our plight ( 18 Years
            Of daily harassment , abuses and violation of our civil
            Rights as defined by European Convention of Human Rights and Universal Declaration of Human Rights . Since 1988 , there is a gag ( censorship ) from running our story in the media in Britain .
             
            Again,  millions thanks Robin for this support .
            You can purchase or suscribe to Lobster , only £12 ,$20, 20 Euros / per Year .
            For more information about Lobster ; please do check :
            Tel : + 44 (0) 1482 447558
            Editor : Robin Ramsay ( Hull , UK )
             
             
            We are willing to give interviews to media wherever they are based about this scandalous situation .
             
            And since 1988 , we are forced to defend ourselves without any professional help .We are looking for a Human Rights Attorney with competences in International Law , Security and Civil Rights to help with this case on Pro Bono basis .
             
            And our supporters can write to their Elected representatives about [NicoNtumba_JusticeCampaign] and
            Request from them to urge the British Premier Minister Tony Blair to settle our long awaited dreadful case as soon as possible ( 18 years : enough is enough ).
             
            If you are living in Britain ( MP : House of Commons );
            North America ( US Congressman/woman ); Belgium ; France ;
            Spain , Germany , Holland , Latvia , Italy …( MEP : Your
            Member of European Parliament ) ; Africa ( President Thabo Mbeki , Africa Union ….) 
             
             
             
            Here is a sample letter you could use .
             
             
                                                            Lithonia , Atlanta
                                                            Georgia 30300
                                                            USA
             
              
            Congresswoman  Cynthia McKinney
            US House of Representatives  
            Washington DC  251500
            USA 
             
            20th  January 2006
             
            Dear Honorable Mckinney ,
             
            Re: [NicoNtumba_JusticeCampaign] : Violation of Human Rights since 1988  
             
            I am writing to you about the never ending dreadful case on Mr Nico Ntumba , a British Citizen of African descent who is being persecuted in England since 1988 . Mr Ntumba is subjected to intense harassment and persecution : He is held incommunicado from his siblings and relatives  , kept like under house arrest and subjected to psychological and mental torture.
             
            Mr Ntumba has never been involved in subversion, terrorism, intelligence or any other criminal activities anywhere in the world. But since 1988, He is kept in the dark about
            his case and the false accusations made against me by security services ( never been interviewed by Police or Security Services ; denied legal services : No lawyer in Britain is willing to take up his case ) . Mr Ntumba has never been convicted of any of these crimes during a trial in a court of law in England.  He is being  denied of his legal rights, which is a breach of European Convention of Human Rights and Universal Declaration of Human Rights .
             
            It is very disgustful that all successive British governments have been using abusively
            British Official Secrets Act and other legislations against an innocent victim, which results in disruption of his life, family, career ( SAP UK Ltd ) / Business ( Tumbay Consulting Ltd http://www.tumbay.com  ) , relationships, finances and health etc.
            Mr Ntumba is going through terrible harassment , abuses , financial hardships, surviving on welfare now with 4 small children due to disruption of his life and sabotage of Career / Business .
             
            An urgent Political Action is much needed .
             
            It would be very grateful if you could intervene in our Case so that his Civil Rights be protected in UK according to Geneva Convention , European Convention on Human Rights and Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
             
            Yours Sincerely
             
             
            Mr Kwesi Goodman 


             
             
            [NicoNtumba_JusticeCampaign]
            Tel ( Cel /Mob ) : + 44 ( 0 ) 7724 072421
            E-mail : domega8@...
             
             
             
            Why This 18 Years of  Campaign for Justice :
             
            * Since 1988 , we are surviving like “ Political Prisoner “
                  under “ House Arrest “ = “ Ghost Prisoner “
            *  We have never been interviewed by Police or Security Services
            *  We are being kept in the dark about the whole process
            *  No Lawyer in Britain is willing to take up the case under draconian
                conditions ( Official Secrets Acts ) since 1988 ( 18 Years )
            *  There is a ban on media running our story (Official Secrets Acts )
            *  We are being kept uncommunicdo from siblings and relatives
            *  They are un-settling our whole life : Smears, harassment , abuses,
                malicious phone calls, setting us people antagonists towards us
            *  Unacceptable interference into our private and family life .
            *  Intolerable interference into running our business activities  :
             
             
            Tumbay Consulting ( IT Services )  : http://www.tumbay.com
             
            Tumbay People ( Resourcing ) :  http://www.tumbay-people.com
             
             
            WEB SITES OF INTEREST BY US / UK SUPPORTERS :
               ( Important : we have no control over them )
              
              http://www.five.org.uk
               
              
              http://Mediafilter.org/guest/Pages/April.5.2000.19.45.43
             


            FOR CONTACT / SUPPORT :
             
            [NicoNtumba_JusticeCampaign]
            6 EYNSFORD TERRACE
            ROYAL LANE
            WEST DRAYTON UB7 8QN
            E-mail : rapha555@...
            ENGLAND
             
            E-MAIL : domega8@...
             


            Yahoo! Photos
            Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP.
          • D Omega
            “ PEACE …JUSTICE…RESPECT “ “ To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men . “ Abraham Lincoln , Formr US President LOBSTER No
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 19, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              “ PEACE …JUSTICE…RESPECT “
               
               
              “ To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men .  “ 
               
                              Abraham Lincoln , Formr US President  



              LOBSTER No 24; ISSN: 0964-0436; December 1992; Page 14
               
               
              6. There is also the International Network against Mind Control
              (INMC), Box 123 , 11479 Stockholm , Sweden . They have taken up
              the case of British resident, Kasaba Ntumba, who is one of a
              growing group of people who claim to have transmitted  /
              receivers inserted in their heads . In Mr Ntumba’s case , INMC have
              circulated what they say are photographs of X-ray of Mr
              Ntumba’s skull which appear to show…something, anyway . I
              have no medical knowledge , nor any way of knowing if these
              photographs are genuine or not . Since Mr Ntumba lives near
              London and is desperate to get journalists to X-ray his skull and
              See for themselves , my guest is there . I will be happy to
              forward letters to Mr Ntumba . The idea of implanting an electronic
              device in somebody’s head initially seems extraordinary . But a
              moment’s reflection on what we know has been done already-
              MK Ultra , ECT , lobotomy , et all – shows that this is just one more
              Step down the road . If the scientists can do it , they will do it . And
              Jose Delgado showed that it probably could be done
               
               
              Source : Lobster Magazine , Dec 1992 , UK .
               
               
              Dear friend and supporter ;
               
              We would like to thanks every body at Lobster magazine ,
              And especially Robin Ramsay for their courage and support
              By publishing this case to highlight our plight ( 18 Years
              Of daily harassment , abuses and violation of our civil
              Rights as defined by European Convention of Human Rights and Universal Declaration of Human Rights . Since 1988 , there is a gag ( censorship ) from running our story in the media in Britain .
               
              Again,  millions thanks Robin for this support .
              You can purchase or suscribe to Lobster , only £12 ,$20, 20 Euros / per Year .
              For more information about Lobster ; please do check :
              Tel : + 44 (0) 1482 447558
              Editor : Robin Ramsay ( Hull , UK )
               
               
              We are willing to give interviews to media wherever they are based about this scandalous situation .
               
              And since 1988 , we are forced to defend ourselves without any professional help .We are looking for a Human Rights Attorney with competences in International Law , Security and Civil Rights to help with this case on Pro Bono basis .
               
              And our supporters can write to their Elected representatives about [NicoNtumba_JusticeCampaign] and
              Request from them to urge the British Premier Minister Tony Blair to settle our long awaited dreadful case as soon as possible ( 18 years : enough is enough ).
               
              If you are living in Britain ( MP : House of Commons );
              North America ( US Congressman/woman ); Belgium ; France ;
              Spain , Germany , Holland , Latvia , Italy …( MEP : Your
              Member of European Parliament ) ; Africa ( President Thabo Mbeki , Africa Union ….) 
               
               
               
              Here is a sample letter you could use .
               
               
                                                              Lithonia , Atlanta
                                                              Georgia 30300
                                                              USA
               
                
              Congresswoman  Cynthia McKinney
              US House of Representatives  
              Washington DC  251500
              USA 
               
              20th  January 2006
               
              Dear Honorable Mckinney ,
               
              Re: [NicoNtumba_JusticeCampaign] : Violation of Human Rights since 1988  
               
              I am writing to you about the never ending dreadful case on Mr Nico Ntumba , a British Citizen of African descent who is being persecuted in England since 1988 . Mr Ntumba is subjected to intense harassment and persecution : He is held incommunicado from his siblings and relatives  , kept like under house arrest and subjected to psychological and mental torture.
               
              Mr Ntumba has never been involved in subversion, terrorism, intelligence or any other criminal activities anywhere in the world. But since 1988, He is kept in the dark about
              his case and the false accusations made against me by security services ( never been interviewed by Police or Security Services ; denied legal services : No lawyer in Britain is willing to take up his case ) . Mr Ntumba has never been convicted of any of these crimes during a trial in a court of law in England.  He is being  denied of his legal rights, which is a breach of European Convention of Human Rights and Universal Declaration of Human Rights .
               
              It is very disgustful that all successive British governments have been using abusively
              British Official Secrets Act and other legislations against an innocent victim, which results in disruption of his life, family, career ( SAP UK Ltd ) / Business ( Tumbay Consulting Ltd http://www.tumbay.com  ) , relationships, finances and health etc.
              Mr Ntumba is going through terrible harassment , abuses , financial hardships, surviving on welfare now with 4 small children due to disruption of his life and sabotage of Career / Business .
               
              An urgent Political Action is much needed .
               
              It would be very grateful if you could intervene in our Case so that his Civil Rights be protected in UK according to Geneva Convention , European Convention on Human Rights and Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
               
              Yours Sincerely
               
               
              Mr Kwesi Goodman 


               
               
              [NicoNtumba_JusticeCampaign]
              Tel ( Cel /Mob ) : + 44 ( 0 ) 7724 072421
              E-mail : domega8@...
               
               
               
              Why This 18 Years of  Campaign for Justice :
               
              * Since 1988 , we are surviving like “ Political Prisoner “
                    under “ House Arrest “ = “ Ghost Prisoner “
              *  We have never been interviewed by Police or Security Services
              *  We are being kept in the dark about the whole process
              *  No Lawyer in Britain is willing to take up the case under draconian
                  conditions ( Official Secrets Acts ) since 1988 ( 18 Years )
              *  There is a ban on media running our story (Official Secrets Acts )
              *  We are being kept uncommunicdo from siblings and relatives
              *  They are un-settling our whole life : Smears, harassment , abuses,
                  malicious phone calls, setting us people antagonists towards us
              *  Unacceptable interference into our private and family life .
              *  Intolerable interference into running our business activities  :
               
               
              Tumbay Consulting ( IT Services )  : http://www.tumbay.com
               
              Tumbay People ( Resourcing ) :  http://www.tumbay-people.com
               
               
              WEB SITES OF INTEREST BY US / UK SUPPORTERS :
                 ( Important : we have no control over them )
                
                http://www.five.org.uk
                 
                
                http://Mediafilter.org/guest/Pages/April.5.2000.19.45.43
               


              FOR CONTACT / SUPPORT :
               
              [NicoNtumba_JusticeCampaign]
              6 EYNSFORD TERRACE
              ROYAL LANE
              WEST DRAYTON UB7 8QN
              E-mail : rapha555@...
              ENGLAND
               
              E-MAIL : domega8@...
               


              Yahoo! Photos
              Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
            • D Omega
              “ PEACE …JUSTICE…RESPECT “ “ To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men . “ Abraham Lincoln , Formr US President LOBSTER No
              Message 6 of 8 , Jan 19, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                “ PEACE …JUSTICE…RESPECT “
                 
                 
                “ To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men .  “ 
                 
                                Abraham Lincoln , Formr US President  



                LOBSTER No 24; ISSN: 0964-0436; December 1992; Page 14
                 
                 
                6. There is also the International Network against Mind Control
                (INMC), Box 123 , 11479 Stockholm , Sweden . They have taken up
                the case of British resident, Kasaba Ntumba, who is one of a
                growing group of people who claim to have transmitted  /
                receivers inserted in their heads . In Mr Ntumba’s case , INMC have
                circulated what they say are photographs of X-ray of Mr
                Ntumba’s skull which appear to show…something, anyway . I
                have no medical knowledge , nor any way of knowing if these
                photographs are genuine or not . Since Mr Ntumba lives near
                London and is desperate to get journalists to X-ray his skull and
                See for themselves , my guest is there . I will be happy to
                forward letters to Mr Ntumba . The idea of implanting an electronic
                device in somebody’s head initially seems extraordinary . But a
                moment’s reflection on what we know has been done already-
                MK Ultra , ECT , lobotomy , et all – shows that this is just one more
                Step down the road . If the scientists can do it , they will do it . And
                Jose Delgado showed that it probably could be done
                 
                 
                Source : Lobster Magazine , Dec 1992 , UK .
                 
                 
                Dear friend and supporter ;
                 
                We would like to thanks every body at Lobster magazine ,
                And especially Robin Ramsay for their courage and support
                By publishing this case to highlight our plight ( 18 Years
                Of daily harassment , abuses and violation of our civil
                Rights as defined by European Convention of Human Rights and Universal Declaration of Human Rights . Since 1988 , there is a gag ( censorship ) from running our story in the media in Britain .
                 
                Again,  millions thanks Robin for this support .
                You can purchase or suscribe to Lobster , only £12 ,$20, 20 Euros / per Year .
                For more information about Lobster ; please do check :
                Tel : + 44 (0) 1482 447558
                Editor : Robin Ramsay ( Hull , UK )
                 
                 
                We are willing to give interviews to media wherever they are based about this scandalous situation .
                 
                And since 1988 , we are forced to defend ourselves without any professional help .We are looking for a Human Rights Attorney with competences in International Law , Security and Civil Rights to help with this case on Pro Bono basis .
                 
                And our supporters can write to their Elected representatives about [NicoNtumba_JusticeCampaign] and
                Request from them to urge the British Premier Minister Tony Blair to settle our long awaited dreadful case as soon as possible ( 18 years : enough is enough ).
                 
                If you are living in Britain ( MP : House of Commons );
                North America ( US Congressman/woman ); Belgium ; France ;
                Spain , Germany , Holland , Latvia , Italy …( MEP : Your
                Member of European Parliament ) ; Africa ( President Thabo Mbeki , Africa Union ….) 
                 
                 
                 
                Here is a sample letter you could use .
                 
                 
                                                                Lithonia , Atlanta
                                                                Georgia 30300
                                                                USA
                 
                  
                Congresswoman  Cynthia McKinney
                US House of Representatives  
                Washington DC  251500
                USA 
                 
                20th  January 2006
                 
                Dear Honorable Mckinney ,
                 
                Re: [NicoNtumba_JusticeCampaign] : Violation of Human Rights since 1988  
                 
                I am writing to you about the never ending dreadful case on Mr Nico Ntumba , a British Citizen of African descent who is being persecuted in England since 1988 . Mr Ntumba is subjected to intense harassment and persecution : He is held incommunicado from his siblings and relatives  , kept like under house arrest and subjected to psychological and mental torture.
                 
                Mr Ntumba has never been involved in subversion, terrorism, intelligence or any other criminal activities anywhere in the world. But since 1988, He is kept in the dark about
                his case and the false accusations made against me by security services ( never been interviewed by Police or Security Services ; denied legal services : No lawyer in Britain is willing to take up his case ) . Mr Ntumba has never been convicted of any of these crimes during a trial in a court of law in England.  He is being  denied of his legal rights, which is a breach of European Convention of Human Rights and Universal Declaration of Human Rights .
                 
                It is very disgustful that all successive British governments have been using abusively
                British Official Secrets Act and other legislations against an innocent victim, which results in disruption of his life, family, career ( SAP UK Ltd ) / Business ( Tumbay Consulting Ltd http://www.tumbay.com  ) , relationships, finances and health etc.
                Mr Ntumba is going through terrible harassment , abuses , financial hardships, surviving on welfare now with 4 small children due to disruption of his life and sabotage of Career / Business .
                 
                An urgent Political Action is much needed .
                 
                It would be very grateful if you could intervene in our Case so that his Civil Rights be protected in UK according to Geneva Convention , European Convention on Human Rights and Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
                 
                Yours Sincerely
                 
                 
                Mr Kwesi Goodman 


                 
                 
                [NicoNtumba_JusticeCampaign]
                Tel ( Cel /Mob ) : + 44 ( 0 ) 7724 072421
                E-mail : domega8@...
                 
                 
                 
                Why This 18 Years of  Campaign for Justice :
                 
                * Since 1988 , we are surviving like “ Political Prisoner “
                      under “ House Arrest “ = “ Ghost Prisoner “
                *  We have never been interviewed by Police or Security Services
                *  We are being kept in the dark about the whole process
                *  No Lawyer in Britain is willing to take up the case under draconian
                    conditions ( Official Secrets Acts ) since 1988 ( 18 Years )
                *  There is a ban on media running our story (Official Secrets Acts )
                *  We are being kept uncommunicdo from siblings and relatives
                *  They are un-settling our whole life : Smears, harassment , abuses,
                    malicious phone calls, setting us people antagonists towards us
                *  Unacceptable interference into our private and family life .
                *  Intolerable interference into running our business activities  :
                 
                 
                Tumbay Consulting ( IT Services )  : http://www.tumbay.com
                 
                Tumbay People ( Resourcing ) :  http://www.tumbay-people.com
                 
                 
                WEB SITES OF INTEREST BY US / UK SUPPORTERS :
                   ( Important : we have no control over them )
                  
                  http://www.five.org.uk
                   
                  
                  http://Mediafilter.org/guest/Pages/April.5.2000.19.45.43
                 


                FOR CONTACT / SUPPORT :
                 
                [NicoNtumba_JusticeCampaign]
                6 EYNSFORD TERRACE
                ROYAL LANE
                WEST DRAYTON UB7 8QN
                E-mail : rapha555@...
                ENGLAND
                 
                E-MAIL : domega8@...
                 


                Yahoo! Photos
                Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
              • Nick Fredman
                Bob Gould ... I think that was another 19th century satirist and radical, Mark Twain. ... yep ... As several posts have pointed out Bob, you either got a
                Message 7 of 8 , Jan 19, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  Bob Gould

                  >All these goodbyes seem to me a bit like the rumours of Oscar Wilde's
                  >death, a bit premature.

                  I think that was another 19th century satirist and radical, Mark Twain.

                  >All of this tit-for-tat abuse is getting boring,

                  yep

                  >Bullimore says my information about the DSP conference is incorrect
                  >because I got the voting numbers wrong, etc, etc,

                  As several posts have pointed out Bob, you either got a number of
                  specific facts wrong, and totally misinterpreted (or rather severly
                  overinterpreted), in a way that can only be seen as an attempt to
                  paint a picture of a nasty, brutal, bureaucratic type of conference:
                  e.g. the *wrong* assumption by you that a long-term leading member
                  was dumped from the full list of the DSP's national committee was
                  called by you "petty vengeance" or similar, maybe you could withdraw
                  that for a start, you were wrong about attendance numbers or delegate
                  ratios or educational and social sessions being significantly
                  differently from past conferences, and you were wrong about the fact
                  it wasn't a live in conference having any political significance.
                  Quite a bit considering what you made of these things.

                  If you want to take part in useful political discussion, maybe you
                  should steer clear of vastly over-interpreting "facts" gathered
                  second- or third-hand (some of which you get inevitably wrong, as has
                  been pointed out numerous times) and suppositions, in a manner that
                  emphasises supposed intrigue, implies that you have some omnipotent
                  knowledge of the "real" motivations of the DSP and every tendency and
                  individual in it, and often uses quite extravagant language. You
                  should maybe consider the principle of Occam's Razor, that the
                  simplest explanations are usually the best, before you invent more
                  intrigue and "real" motivation, and take what's said and done by DSP
                  member's at face value.

                  I can accept that what's you subjectively want to have a useful
                  discussion, however your method for doing so, in the matter of the
                  DSP at least, I think is quite flawed.

                  >I do intend in due course to take up the thread initiated by Nick
                  >Fredman and Norm Dixon on the Third Period and the united front. Those
                  >are at least political questions into which we can get our teeth.

                  No disagreements there.


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