Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

from John/Togs Tognolini-In reply to Bob Gould

Expand Messages
  • John Tognolini
    Oh Bob, you did call me a scab and you were frothing at the mouth. I can’t remember the actual date but it was at one of the many DSP forums that you have
    Message 1 of 3 , Dec 28, 2005
       
      Oh Bob, you did call me a scab and you were frothing at the mouth. I can’t remember the actual date but it was at one of the many DSP forums that you have attended where you excel at bagging us. Just like on this email list.
       
      I might have forgotten the actual forum but I have not forgotten the insult, but then it did come from you so I have taken it, like most things you say and write, with a few grains of salt. You made your silly remark after I called for unions to disaffiliate from the ALP.
       
      It was in late 1986, when I was still on the railways, before I went into the construction industry and became involved in the BLF. And yes Bob, it was after the DSP changed our policy on the ALP, which was helped by Bob Hawke’s primeminstership of the first Thactherite Labor government in the world. And every other ALP government including Paul Keating and all the state governments since have proved it to be a historically correct policy. One reason Kim Beazley is such a useless opposition leader is that he agrees so much with John Howard.
       
      Remember what his dad Kim senior said on the ALP, your party Bob?
       
      “When I joined the Labor Party as a boy, the branches were filled with cream of the working class. When I left it, this had been replaced by the dregs of the middle class.”
       
      But let back to Lenin Bob, do you support the labor party like a rope supports a hanging man? In the ALP’s case it is a ripe carcass that is rather whiffy, so don’t complain to me if the flies are buzzing around you for being a member, and even worse advocating for Marxists to join this maggot ridden, opportunist corpse.
       
      On the legal challenge to Howard’s IR Laws, I don’t hold my breath on it winning, at best in can stall Howard’s IR Laws coming into action to the 2007 election. But even if the ALP wins the next election and Howard looses office, the ALP won’t have control of the senate. Nor will it win it’s court case.
       
      No I’m not a lawyer and like Tim Gooden who has advocated making Geelong an AWA free city, I’m in favour of campaigning for the Blue Mountains where I live and Education where I work to be AWA free zones.
       
      It puts your mate Comrade Morris Iemma in a bind doesn’t it?
       
      As I said before he has taken funding from Howard for TAFE on the basis of AWA’s to my fellow teachers in TAFE doesn’t this undermine his court challenge Bob?
       
      John/Togs Tognolini

      Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

    • bobgould987
      Tognolini s slander of Bob Gould not credible By Bob Gould John Tognolini only takes up in a very summary way the strategic and tactical questions that I
      Message 2 of 3 , Dec 29, 2005
        Tognolini's slander of Bob Gould not credible

        By Bob Gould

        John Tognolini only takes up in a very summary way the strategic and
        tactical questions that I raised about the workers' movement. He does
        say that even if the Liberal government loses the High Court case it's
        of little importance.

        That shows he, and the Boyle faction DSP leadership, who he echos in
        this, can't see the wood for the trees on strategic questions.

        The main thrust of his post, however, is to reiterate his slander that
        I called him a scab in some argument about 20 years ago, and he uses a
        very big font to make his point.

        He makes the time more specific, that it was after the DSP had changed
        its line on the Labor Party, which puts it somewhere around 1985-87.
        To gild the lily even more he has me frothing at the mouth and
        disrupting DSP forums and he claims I do much the same thing now on
        the Green Left list.

        His accusation lacks all credibility. The fact is, at the time he is
        talking about my relations with the DSP and its leadership were fairly
        good, despite differences we had about the Labor Party.

        An example of this is that Jim Percy sought my participation, along
        with a lot of others on the independent left, in meetings held at Phil
        Lee's house in Annandale, to create a diverse left pole of attraction
        at the CPA-organised Broad Left conference in 1986.

        At the end of that conference, which involved a stormy argument
        between the whole of the far left, including the then SPA, the DSP, a
        number of left Labor Party people, some Maoists and Frank Hardy, there
        was a meeting at Glebe Town Hall attended by about 300 people.

        The speakers at that meeting were Jim Percy, Harry Black of the SPA,
        myself and Frank Hardy. A totally comradely atmosphere prevailed at
        the meeting.

        A few years later, when Jim Percy died, John Percy asked me to speak
        at the memorial meeting, also at Glebe Town Hall. A couple of years
        later, when Ernest Mandel died, John Percy asked me to speak at the
        memorial meeting for Mandel, which I did.

        Tognolini's picture of rather crazed Bob Gould frothing at the mouth,
        disrupting DSP forums, is a figment of his own fevered imagination,
        which is put to the service of slandering me basically because of
        current disagreements about strategy.

        Doug Jordan has thrown into the pot something previously unknown to
        me, that at some point the DSP withdrew and pulped an issue of Direct
        Action because it contained something that slandered me (if any old
        hand remembers that event, or even perchance has kept a copy of the
        slanderous bit of Direct Action, I'd love to see it, just to know what
        it was about).

        Accusing someone of being a scab is about the worst thing you can say
        about anyone in the labour movement. If Tognolini says I called him a
        scab, were there witnesses? Did he take it up with anyone to get me to
        withdraw or apologise? Did he publish some protest to me to get me to
        with draw it, or anything like that?

        In addition, Tognolini is well known for a rather vociferous
        temperament. What did he do at the time? Did he sit calmly, while as
        he alleges, I called him a scab?

        In my sporadic experience of Tognolini over the years he's a rather
        volcanic individual, and he's about the last person I would call a
        scab unless I had become unhinged.

        I repeat my assertion. I have never called Tognolini a scab, and in
        the absence of him providing some more concrete evidence of his
        allegation, he the one engaged in gratuitous personal slander for
        current political purposes, probably egged on by others.

        I resent this slander intensely, although there's not a great deal I
        can do about it, or intend to do about it. This unpleasant slander of
        me simply underlines the political method of Tognolini, and possibly
        some of his associates.
      • John Tognolini
        I’m not going to into what Bob has said about me, but it’s nice to be in the good company of my Comrades Dave Riley, Norm Dixon and Alex Miller featured on
        Message 3 of 3 , Dec 29, 2005
          I’m not going to into what Bob has said about me, but it’s nice to be in the good company of my Comrades Dave Riley, Norm Dixon and Alex Miller featured on Bob’s website Ozleft. Like Alex and Norm, our comments on Bob’s politics don’t appear on Ozleft, even though we are attacked on it.
           
          But Bob let look at the arguments I put to you, here they are again;
           
            "...let’s get back to Lenin Bob, do you support the labor party like a rope supports a hanging man? In the ALP’s case it is a ripe carcass that is rather whiffy, so don’t complain to me if the flies are buzzing around you for being a member, and even worse advocating for Marxists to join this maggot ridden, opportunist corpse.
           
          On the legal challenge to Howard’s IR Laws, I don’t hold my breath on it winning, at best in can stall Howard’s IR Laws coming into action to the 2007 election. But even if the ALP wins the next election and Howard looses office, the ALP won’t have control of the senate. Nor will it win its court case.
           
          No I’m not a lawyer and like Tim Gooden who has advocated making Geelong an AWA free city, I’m in favour of campaigning for the Blue Mountains where I live and in Education where I work to be AWA free zones.
           
          It puts your mate Comrade Morris Iemma in a bind doesn’t it?
           
          As I said before he has taken funding from Howard for TAFE on the basis of AWA’s being offered to my fellow teachers in TAFE, doesn’t this undermine his court challenge Bob?".
           
          On another point Bob why has the ALP leadership at both the federal and state level refused to oppose AWA’s?
           
          On your attacks on the DSP Bob, I can quote these lines from George Orwell about all my comrades in the DSP debate you love commenting on;
           
          "If you have embraced a creed which appears to be free from the ordinary dirtiness of politics - a creed from which you yourself cannot expect to draw any material advantage - surely that proves that you are in the right?".
           
          Can you say that about your Comrades in your party, the ALP?
          John/Togs Tognolini

          Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.