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9064Re: Discussion and left regroupment

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  • glparramatta
    Sep 12, 2004
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      --- In GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com, "ozleft" <ozleft@y...> wrote:
      > Peter Boyle, Duncan Meerding, Norm, Simon B2, Paul Benedek, lies and
      > truth
      >
      > By Bob Gould
      >

      >
      > Boyle abusively asserts that no-one should take seriously the
      > perspectives I advance, and then a day or so later Norm Dixon
      > provocatively demands that we collectively or individually on Ozleft
      > spell out whatever perspectives we may have, once again.

      Bob,

      What is so provocative about asking you and your loose circle of
      critics to show the 1000 or so SA members what your alternative
      strategy of concentrating activity inside the ALP and Greens has to
      show for it in terms of strengthening the socialist movement.

      It is not a question of ``number-crunching'' or entryism, but simple a
      question of effectiveness. Where should the efforts of our limited
      number of activists be put and how should they be organised. You have
      to prove to us that abandoning the Socialist Alliance, or at least
      turning it into an ``open-ended'' debating society that does not
      challenge the ALP, is going to win more people to understanding the
      need that we must organise to overthrow this rotten capitalist system.

      The SA can point to many successes: an thriving national organisation
      of socialists that now reaches into many rural and regional areas such
      as Ballarat, Geelong, Bendigo, Taree, Perth Hills etc. Hundreds of
      socialists have become reactivated across the country in one way or
      another through SA. SA members have worked closely and even joined key
      militant unionists; SA members are leading the anti-war movement and
      refugees' rights movement; SA is gaining excellent media coverage
      during the election and hundreds or people every week are being
      introduced to socialist ideas for the first time.

      After decades of activity in the capitalist ALP, what have you got to
      show for it? It is a simple question that socialists should be able to
      answer. After five or six years inside the Greens, what have your
      friends done to advance the cause of socialism?

      It seems that Ozleft instead proposes that in practice socialists
      hunker down and study Australia's social forces, do not operate openly
      outside the ALP or Greens, do not organise as socialists within the
      ALP or Greens, or try to advance the conciousness of ALP and Greens
      members or voters. Instead, the mantra is that it is ``sectarian'' to
      criticise capitalist Labor politicians and or the Greens'
      parliamentary games.

      The truth is that many people on this list are angered by the blatent
      sectarian fishing operation that you are engaged in. We have
      tolerantly provided you with a platform for several years now. You do
      not engage in genuine discussion, but attempt to discredit the DSP and
      the SA by spreading malicious gossip and false information, mixed up
      with wild conspiracy theories.

      At least your other Ozleft comrades Ed Lewis and Alexandra are far
      more honest. They treat list members with contempt and don't pretend
      to be engaged in a dialogue.

      The wonderful thing about the internet is that you can go off and
      establish a list of your own. Perhaps you should.

      Norm
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