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8292Re: [GreenLeft_discussion] Re: Need comment re 'Militant' take on Australia election

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    Aug 10 9:49 PM
      Add to the list the Canadian and Mexican greens.

      >Robert Allen wrote, re looking at the dodgy record of OS Green parties:
      > >Yes, we could do that, Nick, and while we're at it we could study the
      > >examples of supposedly socialist governments in the former Soviet
      > >Union, China, pre-WWI Germany,
      >Pre-WWI Germany??? I was unaware that anyone thought there was a
      >socialist government under Kaiser Wilhelm II. A bit of controversy as
      >well about the socialist nature of the USSR and China. I think that
      >the Green parties I mentioned as fairly definite sell-outs (US, UK,
      >France, Germany), are considered by everyone in the world to be
      >actually, existing Green parties.
      >While we're considering things, we could also look at pre-Stalin
      >USSR, Sandinista Nicaragua, the Cuban revolution, and the Bolivarian
      >revolution in Venuzuala, i.e. movements that have shown how to
      >actually solve fundamental social problems, unlike, as yet, any Green
      > >Looking at policy and practice in Australia seems to me a lot more
      > >useful, and as I pointed out, there has never been anything to justify
      > >Alan Bradley's apparent view that the Greens might change their policy
      > >of withdrawal of troops from Iraq.
      >Point taken. On Australian evidence I don't expect the Greens to
      >change their excellent policy on Iraq, anytime soon anyway. Perhaps
      >Lisa Macdonald's pamphlet was overly predictive on where the Greens
      >would head, I'd have to read it again (BTW it's at
      >http://www.dsp.org.au/dsp/lmgreens.htm ) But I recall it came out
      >around 95, when the Greens helped the Nationals retake Queensland,
      >and when they supported a Liberal government in the ACT, so maybe
      >Lisa can be forgiven for detecting a move to the right. The Greens
      >have moved fairly consistently to the left since, notwithstanding
      >wobbles like Brown's consideration of Telstra privatisation, and are
      >now widely seen to be the major site in Australia of leftist protest
      >and of alternatives to neoliberalism.
      >But, while you can make all the snide comments you like about sects
      >prattling about revolution, the big questions about class, capitalism
      >or socialism, reform or revolution will rise up to bite everyone on
      >the bum eventually, Greens included. And, while nothing is certain
      >and the Greens contain various tendencies, as you don't seem to deny
      >the record of Green parties internationally when approaching or
      >achieving power is not good. The problem of rejecting a class
      >approach is lack of consistency, and leaving oneself open to the
      >innumerable pressures of the capitalist class - someone mentioned the
      >Solomans and Sudan, and the front of the Greens website also does not
      >bode well:
      >Investment in the Environment is Good for Business: Brown
      >"Australia's future prosperity lies in investment in environmental
      >technologies," Senator Bob Brown told business leaders in Canberra on
      >Speaking at the Australian Industry Group Annual Forum at Parliament
      >House in Canberra, Senator Brown said,
      >"It's ET stupid! Around the world countries that have invested in
      >environmental technologies and renewable energy are prospering.
      >Visit http://www.greenleft.org.au
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