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6928Re: GLW list and Carl Kenner in the twilight zone

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  • nobbytob
    Jun 11, 2004
      --- In GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com, "ozleft" <ozleft@y...>

      > By Bob Gould

      > There's a fair bit of spirited debate about the danger of Peter
      > Garrett, but still not a word about the immense pressure from the
      > US government and the right wing of the US and Australian ruling
      > classes on Mark Latham and the Labor Party to reverse the Iraq
      > withdrawal policy.
      > To me, that seems the most pressing immediate conflict at the
      > moment, but the alleged Marxists in the DSP orbit have not a word
      > to say about it.

      huh? YOU are in the LP, not us. what is there to say about it?
      latham shouldn't. basta! WE have plenty of reasons to demand the
      immediate withdrawal of troops. have you? i get the feeling you
      want us to make up your mind about how to deal with YOUR fellow-
      laborites, lazy bugger, eh?

      why do you always try to force YOUR agenda onto us?
      find some young laberal and get him to set up an email list
      for that purpose of debating the ALP manouevring of the day.
      bet you won't get far due to lack of interest in SERIOUS debate
      about CHANGEING this fucked up society amongst the laborites.
      this is not a laber list (oops - freudian slip).

      > enormous pressure building up from the right of Australian society
      > and the US bourgeoisie, Howard, the Murdoch press, etc, to humiliate
      > and thereby politically domesticate Latham, and now Garrett, and the
      > rest of the ALP, and as part of the same process to ride over the
      > Greens.

      pressure is a matter of perspective. if you feel POLITICALLY
      und er pressure from the warmongers, sorry, but i don't get it.
      the german social democracy had no problem to turn head on
      against the war on the iraqi people and they won an election
      with that stand (and no illusions here, they did it exactly
      because of that: winning the election). empowered by this
      experience the SPD even took on the (on a world-scale most
      conservative) green leadership, when they suggested they would
      be prepared to send troops if only the UN would play a bigger
      role. they gave a shit about US+UK pressure, as they knew they
      can't beat that reason (winning the election 1992). i bet it
      wouldn't be too hard to turn around mainstream opinion the
      same way like happened in germany - expose the lies, then the
      liars, then get the votes. BUT YOU HAVE TO TAKE THAT STAND!
      that is what i am fighting for: turning the tide - outside
      of the labor party. i don't see the LP as the vehicle to real
      change, so i better help building an alternative force. again,
      look at the german example, where the SPD is running one of the
      harsher neoliberal agendas...

      bob, YOU are the whinger here on this list. so i'm serious:
      why don't YOU try to find someone else to play - build your
      virtual castles in another sandpit, ie.list ...
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