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6534RE: [GreenLeft_discussion] Re: Brainless, shameless, moralising rubbish from GLW Paramatta

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  • Duncan.Meerding
    May 25, 2004
      Just to clarify something for bob gould as he should re read my original
      reply. I did not say that they did not read them I said that people read
      things and may not nececerilly adree with the politics inside of it.
      Before you say someone is a dope readn posts properly as not to
      embarrass your self.
      And just because labour voters are anti war, does not mean that Labor is
      an effective fighting force within the left movements especially the ant
      war movement. From my out look it seems as if labours idea of movwement
      work is to divide them. You just have to look at the ant war coalition
      in Perth and Sydney to see a direct example of this.
      DSP sectariansism, yeah that's why we are in the process of unification
      with other left parties.

      -----Original Message-----
      From: ozleft [mailto:ozleft@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, 25 May 2004 11:18 PM
      To: GreenLeft_discussion@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [GreenLeft_discussion] Re: Brainless, shameless, moralising
      rubbish from GLW Paramatta

      By Bob Gould

      Most of the comments on my post of last night are deliberately insulting
      and show up in bold relief the underlying political outlook of the DSP

      Lordludd deliberately insults me by asserting that I'm trying to get the
      right-winger, Nolan, to sue him. How stupid can you get? I was simply
      trying to help Brother Ludd by pointing out the danger, both to himself
      and the Green Left list, of recklessly throwing around thoughtless
      rhetoric about scabs, particularly against an industrial lawyer.

      In this context, my concern for the interests of the Green Left list,
      which from time to time I find a useful platform, and even for the dopey
      Lordludd, is genuine.

      A leftist of my acquaintance once had to pull up stakes and move states
      to escape a libel writ from a right wing union official who he had
      rather unwisely called a scab. A rank and file leftist ironworkers union
      leader in Newcastle, with whom I was acquainted, had to sell his house
      when he lost a libel case against a right-wing union official.

      In the overheated, politically hysterical, atmosphere generated by the
      DSP leadership in the DSP ranks these considerations don't seem to rate
      at all. Despite the obvious political disagreements I have with the DSP
      leadership I'm genuinely shaken by how little attention they seem to pay
      to these kinds of questions, in pursuit of their mistaken, sectarian
      political line.

      At the very least, the moderator of the list should declare a moratorium
      on language about scabs, applied to living individuals. I have no
      intention of drawing Mr Nolan's attention to this craziness on the GLW
      list, but if he's a normal, opinionated pundit, as he seems to be, he's
      likely to Google his own name from time to time to see what people say
      about him.

      Lordludd, GLParamatta and others are behaving very recklessly indeed,
      and my purpose in raising the question is to draw attention to how
      reckless this rhetoric is to the other 300-odd participants in this

      All concerned should knock off crazy rhetoric about scabs.

      My other purpose, obviously, is to raise very sharply the vicious
      sectarianism towards the ranks of the labour movement displayed in
      GLParamatta's header, and the lack of a sense of proportion and
      judgment. The attempt is made, and continued by Lordludd and Simon
      Butler, to associate Laborites in general with the reactionary views of
      Nolan, in pursuit of the DSP's bankrupt schema about Labor being one of
      the two capitalist parties, ignoring the social location and social base
      of the ALP.

      GLParamatta's timing is unfortunate, from his point of view. Today's
      Sydney Morning Herald polls seems to show a rather substantial electoral
      swing to Labor, and the pollsters, in trying to explain it, associate
      the swing with Labor's opposition to the Iraq war.

      The polls show that 88 per cent of Greens and Democrats oppose the war,
      but 80 per cent of Labor voters are opposed as well. Only a minority of
      Liberal voters are opposed, although the number of antiwar Liberals has

      I'm struck forcibly by the fact that no-one on the GLW list has even
      mentioned today's poll. DSP leadership supporters are usually very quick
      to draw attention to polls showing increased opposition to the Iraq war,
      but it seems this poll, which shows the overwhelming correlation between
      voting Labor and opposing the war, is to be ignored -- because it might
      sow illusions in Laborism, perhaps.

      This poll underlines the class and political division between the Tory
      right and the Labor-Green left in Australian society.

      The DSP leadership can't cope with this phenomenon, because it doesn't
      fit their schema, and they're driven to exactly the same device as the
      right-wing Murdoch newspapers, of holding up an isolated right-winger,
      called Nolan, as somehow representative of Laborism, despite all
      evidence to the contrary, in things like the statements of Labor leaders
      against the Iraq war and today's polls.

      Duncan Meerding insults the Laborites who bought Moore's books at the
      ALP state conference, saying they probably didn't read them. What a dope
      this man is! In my experience as a bookseller everybody who buys Michael
      Moore reads him, including Laborites, because he's so funny and

      The ruling classes of the US and Australia are positively apopleptic
      about Michael Moore, witness P.P. McGuiness's similar assault to Nolan
      on him this morning in the Sydney Morning Herald. (McGuiness's attack
      doesn't rate a mention on the Green Left list, but then McGuiness can't
      be as easily fitted into Laborism as Nolan. Incidentally, GLW website
      participants only have the Australian's word for it about Nolan's Labor
      Party membership. Nolan may be trading on past associations, and may not
      even be a current ALP member, but none of that's of any interest on the
      GLW list. Anything goes if you want to kick the Laborites.)

      From a socialist point of view, this DSP leadership sectarianism is
      monumentally stupid. There is a very substantial polarisation in
      Australian society building as the federal elections approach. The hopes
      of the Labor-Green left side of Australian society are now heavily
      invested in the prospect of the Labor-Green side defeating the Liberals
      electorally, with the inevitable prospect of a Green balance of power in
      the Senate.

      The possibility of defeating the Liberals is the central axis of current
      Australian politics, and even in a secondary way of world politics. The
      election of a Labor government that withdraws Australian troops from
      Iraq will be a very major blow to imperialism. Even the dopiest
      political observers can see this, and that's driving the reactionary
      side of Australian politics off its tree. In this situation, all the DSP
      leadership can think to do is grasp at straws, in this instance Mr
      Nolan, to try to create an impression that Laborites in general support
      the Iraq war.

      The DSP leadership is the only group of people in Australian society who
      hold this eccentric view, and the ruthless, reckless and inaccurate way
      their prosecute this view tends to cut them off from the whole left of
      Australian society, which has other things on its mind, in particular
      defeating the Liberals in the elections.

      If there's a material crisis in the DSP, which is now pretty public, it
      has everything to do with the DSP leadership's dead-end sectarian
      political line towards the workers movement and the coming federal

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