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Re: [GnosticThought] Re: Gnostic Grace & The Mercy of Eternity all Weekend on...

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  • rosiolady@aol.com
    In a message dated 12/31/2011 11:26:07 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, eugnostos2000@yahoo.com writes: Hi Rosalie. I believe Brenda once quoted Shakespeare s line
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 1, 2012
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      In a message dated 12/31/2011 11:26:07 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
      eugnostos2000@... writes:

      Hi Rosalie. I believe Brenda once quoted Shakespeare's line comparing life
      to "a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, and signifying
      nothing!" On the surface of it, life certainly seems to be such. So much of
      religion is comprised of Just So Stories which we tell ourselves to console us
      in the face of the awful indifference of life. And yet here we are. I have
      always liked the gnostic metaphor of being "thrown" into an inexplicable
      world. We are curious creatures, always seeking pleasure and running from
      pain. Our very personalities are bundles of liking and disliking. What do you
      think about this?
      Steve




      Steve, I agree totally! But even when Life seems totally frustrating and
      pointless, there is a core part of me that believes there IS a good reason
      even though I can't discern it.

      Shakespeare was so much more eloquent, but I like to say that life is like
      a do it yourself kit without the instructions.

      Rosalie

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • SteveW
      Ah, but here s the rub, as The Bard might say. We all follow our natures. As Schopenhaur noted, we can do whatever we want, but what we want is always there
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 1, 2012
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        Ah, but here's the rub, as The Bard might say. We all follow our natures. As Schopenhaur noted, we can do whatever we want, but what we want is always there before we choose. As our desires, so our thoughts. As our thoughts, so our volitions. As our volitions, so our actions. As our actions, so our reinforced habits. As our habits, so our character. As our character, so our destiny. But we are not creatures of just one desire. We follow the most compelling, and we reap the consequences. Most of us, imo, are so mired in reinforced conditioned habits of reaction to people, places and things that we are, for all purposes, enslaved by our own minds! IMO, negative conditioning that rules over how we respond to people, places and things is the basis of what the ancient gnostics called 'Archons', or Rulers. And it is, imo, the source of a good deal of our unhappiness in this world of clashing opposites, this world of two hands clapping. IMO.
        Steve

        --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, rosiolady@... wrote:
        >
        >
        > In a message dated 12/31/2011 11:26:07 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
        > eugnostos2000@... writes:
        >
        > Hi Rosalie. I believe Brenda once quoted Shakespeare's line comparing life
        > to "a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, and signifying
        > nothing!" On the surface of it, life certainly seems to be such. So much of
        > religion is comprised of Just So Stories which we tell ourselves to console us
        > in the face of the awful indifference of life. And yet here we are. I have
        > always liked the gnostic metaphor of being "thrown" into an inexplicable
        > world. We are curious creatures, always seeking pleasure and running from
        > pain. Our very personalities are bundles of liking and disliking. What do you
        > think about this?
        > Steve
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Steve, I agree totally! But even when Life seems totally frustrating and
        > pointless, there is a core part of me that believes there IS a good reason
        > even though I can't discern it.
        >
        > Shakespeare was so much more eloquent, but I like to say that life is like
        > a do it yourself kit without the instructions.
        >
        > Rosalie
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • John
        Dear Steve, a tale told by an idiot is uttered by the weak-minded Macbeth, who has devoted his life to his wife s treachery, and on hearing of her death he
        Message 3 of 7 , Jan 1, 2012
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          Dear Steve,

          "a tale told by an idiot"
          is uttered by the weak-minded Macbeth,
          who has devoted his life to his wife's treachery,
          and on hearing of her death
          he extrapolates that the treachery of life itself
          has taken her away from him

          I love old Billy
          and it's always important
          in the play to bear in mind the circumstance
          of the character when his lines are uttered

          his voice is the voice of everyman

          and the inexplicable world is only such
          inasmuch as I look externally for life's meaning
          and continue to ignore "that still voice within"

          Love,
          John
          ***






          --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "SteveW" <eugnostos2000@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Rosalie. I believe Brenda once quoted Shakespeare's line comparing life to "a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, and signifying nothing!" On the surface of it, life certainly seems to be such. So much of religion is comprised of Just So Stories which we tell ourselves to console us in the face of the awful indifference of life. And yet here we are. I have always liked the gnostic metaphor of being "thrown" into an inexplicable world. We are curious creatures, always seeking pleasure and running from pain. Our very personalities are bundles of liking and disliking. What do you think about this?
          > Steve
          >
          > --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, rosiolady@ wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > In a message dated 12/31/2011 9:56:11 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
          > > eugnostos2000@ writes:
          > >
          > > Well, this certainly looks interesting! And it brings up a topic which I
          > > don't think has been discussed much here. You know, as with so much of our
          > > mental life, there does seem to be a complex feed-back loop between our
          > > habitual thoughts and the bio-chemistry of our brains. And one does not even
          > > need to have a tendancy towards clinical depression or bi-polar disorder to
          > > be sucked-in by nihilism. On the face of it, existence is bittersweet, with
          > > the bitter always winning in the end. The Gospel of Thomas advises us to be
          > > like little children, but all adult attempts to emulate the carefree
          > > happiness of little children are always strained and artificial. If one just
          > > looks at nature, one cannot help but realize that the very balance of nature
          > > rests upon predation, disease and starvation to keep populations in check. I
          > > have always been impressed with pagan Norse mythology for squarely facing
          > > this. The Norse Gods go out every day to fight against forces of death,
          > > doom and destruction, knowing full well that in the end they will fail and be
          > > defeated. Here, the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics always wins, and we don't
          > > really know if there is anything more than this. Quite a bitter pill for any
          > > thoughtful person to swallow, eh?
          > > Steve
          > > "How is there laughter, how is there joy, as this world is always burning?
          > > Do you not seek a light, you who are surrounded by darkness?" -the Buddha
          > >
          > >
          > > Yes. What is this "ride" for? What is it in aid of? There's no way to
          > > know for certain, not from appearances. My personal answer, which works at
          > > least halfway well for me, is to look for the fun parts of life....and
          > > many times it takes some pretty concentrated looking!
          > >
          > > Sometimes I have run into people who (angrily) insist that every moment of
          > > this human life is precious and they thank god for every bit of it. I
          > > wonder if they know something I don't, or are they just pretty much full of
          > > s**t? Then I have to remind myself that we all see things from the filter of
          > > our own individual and personal perspective.
          > >
          > > Rosalie
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
        • SteveW
          Good Answer! ;-) Steve
          Message 4 of 7 , Jan 1, 2012
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            Good Answer! ;-)
            Steve

            --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "John" <beingherenow@...> wrote:
            >
            > Dear Steve,
            >
            > "a tale told by an idiot"
            > is uttered by the weak-minded Macbeth,
            > who has devoted his life to his wife's treachery,
            > and on hearing of her death
            > he extrapolates that the treachery of life itself
            > has taken her away from him
            >
            > I love old Billy
            > and it's always important
            > in the play to bear in mind the circumstance
            > of the character when his lines are uttered
            >
            > his voice is the voice of everyman
            >
            > and the inexplicable world is only such
            > inasmuch as I look externally for life's meaning
            > and continue to ignore "that still voice within"
            >
            > Love,
            > John
            > ***
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "SteveW" <eugnostos2000@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi Rosalie. I believe Brenda once quoted Shakespeare's line comparing life to "a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, and signifying nothing!" On the surface of it, life certainly seems to be such. So much of religion is comprised of Just So Stories which we tell ourselves to console us in the face of the awful indifference of life. And yet here we are. I have always liked the gnostic metaphor of being "thrown" into an inexplicable world. We are curious creatures, always seeking pleasure and running from pain. Our very personalities are bundles of liking and disliking. What do you think about this?
            > > Steve
            > >
            > > --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, rosiolady@ wrote:
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > In a message dated 12/31/2011 9:56:11 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
            > > > eugnostos2000@ writes:
            > > >
            > > > Well, this certainly looks interesting! And it brings up a topic which I
            > > > don't think has been discussed much here. You know, as with so much of our
            > > > mental life, there does seem to be a complex feed-back loop between our
            > > > habitual thoughts and the bio-chemistry of our brains. And one does not even
            > > > need to have a tendancy towards clinical depression or bi-polar disorder to
            > > > be sucked-in by nihilism. On the face of it, existence is bittersweet, with
            > > > the bitter always winning in the end. The Gospel of Thomas advises us to be
            > > > like little children, but all adult attempts to emulate the carefree
            > > > happiness of little children are always strained and artificial. If one just
            > > > looks at nature, one cannot help but realize that the very balance of nature
            > > > rests upon predation, disease and starvation to keep populations in check. I
            > > > have always been impressed with pagan Norse mythology for squarely facing
            > > > this. The Norse Gods go out every day to fight against forces of death,
            > > > doom and destruction, knowing full well that in the end they will fail and be
            > > > defeated. Here, the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics always wins, and we don't
            > > > really know if there is anything more than this. Quite a bitter pill for any
            > > > thoughtful person to swallow, eh?
            > > > Steve
            > > > "How is there laughter, how is there joy, as this world is always burning?
            > > > Do you not seek a light, you who are surrounded by darkness?" -the Buddha
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Yes. What is this "ride" for? What is it in aid of? There's no way to
            > > > know for certain, not from appearances. My personal answer, which works at
            > > > least halfway well for me, is to look for the fun parts of life....and
            > > > many times it takes some pretty concentrated looking!
            > > >
            > > > Sometimes I have run into people who (angrily) insist that every moment of
            > > > this human life is precious and they thank god for every bit of it. I
            > > > wonder if they know something I don't, or are they just pretty much full of
            > > > s**t? Then I have to remind myself that we all see things from the filter of
            > > > our own individual and personal perspective.
            > > >
            > > > Rosalie
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > >
            >
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