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Re: "The Eight Precepts of Quanfa"-7

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  • banderaken
    ... Hi Rosalie, Be aware of What Is? Ken
    Message 1 of 25 , Mar 1, 2011
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      --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, rosiolady@... wrote:
      >
      >
      > In a message dated 2/28/2011 10:45:40 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
      > bandera_ken@... writes:
      >
      > Seventh Precept:
      >
      > (A.) See what is unseeable.
      > (B.) The eyes do not miss even the slightest change.
      > (C.) The eye must see every way.
      >
      > What does the seventh precept say to you?
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > I really think this has to do with opining your "mind's eye." That is, be
      > as fully aware as you can manage, using your physical vision,
      > intuition...all your senses.
      >
      > Rosalie

      Hi Rosalie,
      Be aware of What Is?

      Ken
    • banderaken
      ... Hi Bob, One secret to getting close to wild animals is to walk with a tame animal such as a cow. If you are careful to move enough like the cow the wild
      Message 2 of 25 , Mar 1, 2011
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        --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, old bob <bbferrier@...> wrote:
        >
        > A and C suggest spiritual. B might be an association with animal behavior to reinforce her spiritual thought. When I try to get close to an animal in the wild to capture them on camera, they may hear me or smell me. They become alert, but don't spook until they see me. Deer for example can detect movement a mile away, but don't recognize me close up unless they see me move. If my only movements are when they are looking away, I can get very close to them before they spook.
        >
        > old bob

        Hi Bob,
        One secret to getting close to wild animals is to walk with a tame animal such as a cow. If you are careful to move enough like the cow the wild animal sometimes thinks it is just a couple of cows or a cow and a calf.

        Works with horses, sheep and goats too. Doesn't seem to matter you are a different size and shape. It's being with the other animal and moving like it that seems to make the difference.

        Ken
      • sam
        ... Pay heed to mind s-eye-scenario. Mesh life-acts with nature s constant flow. Agnize, express... the syncarps of gnow. imo, sam
        Message 3 of 25 , Mar 1, 2011
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          At 06:45 PM 2/28/2011 -0000, you wrote:

          >Seventh Precept:
          >
          >(A.) See what is unseeable.
          >(B.) The eyes do not miss even the slightest change.
          >(C.) The eye must see every way.
          >
          >What does the seventh precept say to you?


          Pay heed to mind's-eye-scenario.
          Mesh life-acts with nature's constant flow.
          Agnize, express... the syncarps of gnow.


          imo,
          sam
        • rosiolady@aol.com
          In a message dated 3/1/2011 7:06:55 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, ... be ... Hi Rosalie, Be aware of What Is? Ken Exactly! Rosalie [Non-text portions of this
          Message 4 of 25 , Mar 1, 2011
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            In a message dated 3/1/2011 7:06:55 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
            bandera_ken@... writes:

            --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, rosiolady@... wrote:
            >
            >
            > In a message dated 2/28/2011 10:45:40 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
            > bandera_ken@... writes:
            >
            > Seventh Precept:
            >
            > (A.) See what is unseeable.
            > (B.) The eyes do not miss even the slightest change.
            > (C.) The eye must see every way.
            >
            > What does the seventh precept say to you?
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > I really think this has to do with opining your "mind's eye." That is,
            be
            > as fully aware as you can manage, using your physical vision,
            > intuition...all your senses.
            >
            > Rosalie

            Hi Rosalie,
            Be aware of What Is?

            Ken



            Exactly!

            Rosalie


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • SteveW
            ... Hi Ken. As with all the precepts, on one level it refers to martial arts, while on another, deeper level it refers to Zen. I would like to talk about A.
            Message 5 of 25 , Mar 1, 2011
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              --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "banderaken" <bandera_ken@...> wrote:
              >
              > Seventh Precept:
              >
              > (A.) See what is unseeable.
              > (B.) The eyes do not miss even the slightest change.
              > (C.) The eye must see every way.
              >
              > What does the seventh precept say to you?

              Hi Ken. As with all the precepts, on one level it refers to
              martial arts, while on another, deeper level it refers to Zen.
              I would like to talk about A. The Zenrin says that What Is is
              "like an eye that sees, but cannot see itself, like a sword that
              cuts, but cannot cut itself." What is it that the eye cannot see?
              The Seer. Just as the eye cannot see itself, but can only see it's
              reflection in a mirror, so What Is cannot see itself, only It's
              reflections as us. But we misidentify our true Self with the
              reflections. and this, of course, is also the meaning of The
              Living Jesus saying, "I shall give you what no eye has seen,
              what no ear has heard, what no hand has touched, and what has
              never occurred to the human mind." IMO.
              Steve
              >
            • SteveW
              ... Hi again, Ken. Now I would like to say something about B. The First Sign of Being in Buddhism is Annica, constant change. On the phenomenal plane
              Message 6 of 25 , Mar 1, 2011
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                --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "banderaken" <bandera_ken@...> wrote:
                >
                > Seventh Precept:
                >
                > (A.) See what is unseeable.
                > (B.) The eyes do not miss even the slightest change.
                > (C.) The eye must see every way.
                >
                > What does the seventh precept say to you?
                >
                Hi again, Ken. Now I would like to say something about B.
                The First Sign of Being in Buddhism is Annica, constant change.
                On the phenomenal plane everything is changing. In meditation
                we see that sensations, thoughts, images and feelings are
                constantly arising and passing away. But if one is very, very,
                VERY alert, one will notice momentary gaps or spaces in between
                moments of phenomenal change. In deep samadhi (absorption) these
                gaps or spaces lengthen. What Is abides in the spaces between
                changing phenomena. It is your Original Face before your parents
                were born. IMO.
                Steve
                "In the blink of an eye, you have missed seeing!" Gateless Gate
              • SteveW
                ... And now for C. The Flower Garland Sutra says that everything exists as a reflection of everything else. Once I was sitting in a cafe with Grrlfriend. I was
                Message 7 of 25 , Mar 1, 2011
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                  --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "banderaken" <bandera_ken@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Seventh Precept:
                  >
                  > (A.) See what is unseeable.
                  > (B.) The eyes do not miss even the slightest change.
                  > (C.) The eye must see every way.
                  >
                  > What does the seventh precept say to you?
                  >
                  And now for C. The Flower Garland Sutra says that everything
                  exists as a reflection of everything else. Once I was sitting
                  in a cafe with Grrlfriend. I was drinking coffee and chatting
                  when suddenly my perspective shifted and I felt like I was looking
                  at myself from the waitress' eyes. And then it shifted again and
                  seemed like I was looking at myself from across the room from the
                  view-point of another patron. I nearly passed out. What Is looks
                  at Itself from an infinite number of view-points. We are nothing
                  but shifting perspectives, turning waves upon the Ocean of Being.
                  IMO.
                  Steve
                • rosiolady@aol.com
                  In a message dated 3/1/2011 10:49:50 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, eugnostos2000@yahoo.com writes: Hi Ken. As with all the precepts, on one level it refers to
                  Message 8 of 25 , Mar 1, 2011
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                    In a message dated 3/1/2011 10:49:50 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                    eugnostos2000@... writes:

                    Hi Ken. As with all the precepts, on one level it refers to
                    martial arts, while on another, deeper level it refers to Zen.
                    I would like to talk about A. The Zenrin says that What Is is
                    "like an eye that sees, but cannot see itself, like a sword that
                    cuts, but cannot cut itself." What is it that the eye cannot see?
                    The Seer. Just as the eye cannot see itself, but can only see it's
                    reflection in a mirror, so What Is cannot see itself, only It's
                    reflections as us. But we misidentify our true Self with the
                    reflections. and this, of course, is also the meaning of The
                    Living Jesus saying, "I shall give you what no eye has seen,
                    what no ear has heard, what no hand has touched, and what has
                    never occurred to the human mind." IMO.
                    Steve



                    I really appreciate your analyses from your knowledge of Zen, Steve.
                    Thanks!

                    Rosalie


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • banderaken
                    ... Hi Steve, Like the ancient Gnostic myths all had three levels, the literal material, the mental and the spiritual? Ken
                    Message 9 of 25 , Mar 2, 2011
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                      --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "SteveW" <eugnostos2000@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "banderaken" <bandera_ken@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Seventh Precept:
                      > >
                      > > (A.) See what is unseeable.
                      > > (B.) The eyes do not miss even the slightest change.
                      > > (C.) The eye must see every way.
                      > >
                      > > What does the seventh precept say to you?
                      >
                      > Hi Ken. As with all the precepts, on one level it refers to
                      > martial arts, while on another, deeper level it refers to Zen.

                      Hi Steve,
                      Like the ancient Gnostic myths all had three levels, the literal material, the mental and the spiritual?

                      Ken
                    • banderaken
                      ... Hi Steve, Look for the gap. Read between the lines of your thoughts. But don t think about it or it won t be a gap? Ken
                      Message 10 of 25 , Mar 2, 2011
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                        --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "SteveW" <eugnostos2000@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "banderaken" <bandera_ken@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Seventh Precept:
                        > >
                        > > (A.) See what is unseeable.
                        > > (B.) The eyes do not miss even the slightest change.
                        > > (C.) The eye must see every way.
                        > >
                        > > What does the seventh precept say to you?
                        > >
                        > Hi again, Ken. Now I would like to say something about B.
                        > The First Sign of Being in Buddhism is Annica, constant change.
                        > On the phenomenal plane everything is changing. In meditation
                        > we see that sensations, thoughts, images and feelings are
                        > constantly arising and passing away. But if one is very, very,
                        > VERY alert, one will notice momentary gaps or spaces in between
                        > moments of phenomenal change. In deep samadhi (absorption) these
                        > gaps or spaces lengthen. What Is abides in the spaces between
                        > changing phenomena. It is your Original Face before your parents
                        > were born. IMO.
                        > Steve

                        Hi Steve,
                        Look for the gap. Read between the lines of your thoughts. But don't think about it or it won't be a gap?

                        Ken
                      • banderaken
                        ... I agree. The different viewpoint makes things clearer. IMO. Ken
                        Message 11 of 25 , Mar 2, 2011
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                          --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, rosiolady@... wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > In a message dated 3/1/2011 10:49:50 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                          > eugnostos2000@... writes:
                          >
                          > Hi Ken. As with all the precepts, on one level it refers to
                          > martial arts, while on another, deeper level it refers to Zen.
                          > I would like to talk about A. The Zenrin says that What Is is
                          > "like an eye that sees, but cannot see itself, like a sword that
                          > cuts, but cannot cut itself." What is it that the eye cannot see?
                          > The Seer. Just as the eye cannot see itself, but can only see it's
                          > reflection in a mirror, so What Is cannot see itself, only It's
                          > reflections as us. But we misidentify our true Self with the
                          > reflections. and this, of course, is also the meaning of The
                          > Living Jesus saying, "I shall give you what no eye has seen,
                          > what no ear has heard, what no hand has touched, and what has
                          > never occurred to the human mind." IMO.
                          > Steve
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > I really appreciate your analyses from your knowledge of Zen, Steve.
                          > Thanks!
                          >
                          > Rosalie

                          I agree. The different viewpoint makes things clearer. IMO.

                          Ken
                        • SteveW
                          ... Hi Ken. Yes. Steve
                          Message 12 of 25 , Mar 2, 2011
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                            --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "banderaken" <bandera_ken@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "SteveW" <eugnostos2000@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "banderaken" <bandera_ken@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Seventh Precept:
                            > > >
                            > > > (A.) See what is unseeable.
                            > > > (B.) The eyes do not miss even the slightest change.
                            > > > (C.) The eye must see every way.
                            > > >
                            > > > What does the seventh precept say to you?
                            > >
                            > > Hi Ken. As with all the precepts, on one level it refers to
                            > > martial arts, while on another, deeper level it refers to Zen.
                            >
                            > Hi Steve,
                            > Like the ancient Gnostic myths all had three levels, the literal material, the mental and the spiritual?
                            >
                            > Ken

                            Hi Ken. Yes.
                            Steve
                            >
                          • SteveW
                            ... Easier said than done!;-) Who is doing it? Steve
                            Message 13 of 25 , Mar 2, 2011
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                              --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "banderaken" <bandera_ken@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "SteveW" <eugnostos2000@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "banderaken" <bandera_ken@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Seventh Precept:
                              > > >
                              > > > (A.) See what is unseeable.
                              > > > (B.) The eyes do not miss even the slightest change.
                              > > > (C.) The eye must see every way.
                              > > >
                              > > > What does the seventh precept say to you?
                              > > >
                              > > Hi again, Ken. Now I would like to say something about B.
                              > > The First Sign of Being in Buddhism is Annica, constant change.
                              > > On the phenomenal plane everything is changing. In meditation
                              > > we see that sensations, thoughts, images and feelings are
                              > > constantly arising and passing away. But if one is very, very,
                              > > VERY alert, one will notice momentary gaps or spaces in between
                              > > moments of phenomenal change. In deep samadhi (absorption) these
                              > > gaps or spaces lengthen. What Is abides in the spaces between
                              > > changing phenomena. It is your Original Face before your parents
                              > > were born. IMO.
                              > > Steve
                              >
                              > Hi Steve,
                              > Look for the gap. Read between the lines of your thoughts. But don't think about it or it won't be a gap?
                              >
                              > Ken

                              Easier said than done!;-)
                              Who is doing it?
                              Steve
                            • banderaken
                              ... Hi Steve, Right, it is easy to say but very difficult to do. Who is doing it? The Watcher? I still haven t figured out who or what the Watcher is. Is the
                              Message 14 of 25 , Mar 2, 2011
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                                --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "SteveW" <eugnostos2000@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "banderaken" <bandera_ken@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "SteveW" <eugnostos2000@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "banderaken" <bandera_ken@> wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Seventh Precept:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > (A.) See what is unseeable.
                                > > > > (B.) The eyes do not miss even the slightest change.
                                > > > > (C.) The eye must see every way.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > What does the seventh precept say to you?
                                > > > >
                                > > > Hi again, Ken. Now I would like to say something about B.
                                > > > The First Sign of Being in Buddhism is Annica, constant change.
                                > > > On the phenomenal plane everything is changing. In meditation
                                > > > we see that sensations, thoughts, images and feelings are
                                > > > constantly arising and passing away. But if one is very, very,
                                > > > VERY alert, one will notice momentary gaps or spaces in between
                                > > > moments of phenomenal change. In deep samadhi (absorption) these
                                > > > gaps or spaces lengthen. What Is abides in the spaces between
                                > > > changing phenomena. It is your Original Face before your parents
                                > > > were born. IMO.
                                > > > Steve
                                > >
                                > > Hi Steve,
                                > > Look for the gap. Read between the lines of your thoughts. But don't think about it or it won't be a gap?
                                > >
                                > > Ken
                                >
                                > Easier said than done!;-)
                                > Who is doing it?
                                > Steve

                                Hi Steve,
                                Right, it is easy to say but very difficult to do.

                                Who is doing it? The Watcher? I still haven't figured out who or what the Watcher is. Is the Gap the Watcher watching itself?

                                Ken
                              • rosiolady@aol.com
                                In a message dated 3/2/2011 9:59:13 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, bandera_ken@texas.usa.com writes: Hi Steve, Right, it is easy to say but very difficult to do.
                                Message 15 of 25 , Mar 2, 2011
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                                  In a message dated 3/2/2011 9:59:13 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                                  bandera_ken@... writes:

                                  Hi Steve,
                                  Right, it is easy to say but very difficult to do.

                                  Who is doing it? The Watcher? I still haven't figured out who or what the
                                  Watcher is. Is the Gap the Watcher watching itself?

                                  Ken




                                  I don't think you can find the Gap by looking for it. Meditation is the
                                  most helpful for this--or just letting your mind "free wheel" sometimes. At
                                  those times, you can become at least peripherally aware of the Gap. It
                                  seems like intuitive insights are most likely to come through those Gaps,
                                  IMO. No effort of trying to make it happen works, just "let" it happen.

                                  Rosalie


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • old bob
                                  What RosioLady said about perspective using meditation and what is said here, I m getting a new perspective myself. Concepts may become clearer from different
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Mar 2, 2011
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                                    What RosioLady said about perspective using meditation and what is said here, I'm getting a new perspective myself. Concepts may become clearer from different perspectives much the same as vision. Our blind spot hides itself from our awareness, but by not changing fucus, realizing its there and not moving our head, we can actually locate it. The brain seems to fill in the gaps when we change our perspective, the slightest. Perhaps some of our concepts act similarly. I'm going to think about that idea and see what I can learn.
                                    old bob
                                    --.-


                                    --- On Wed, 3/2/11, banderaken <bandera_ken@...> wrote:

                                    From: banderaken <bandera_ken@...>
                                    Subject: [GnosticThought] Re: "The Eight Precepts of Quanfa"-7
                                    To: GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com
                                    Date: Wednesday, March 2, 2011, 6:24 AM







                                     











                                    --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, rosiolady@... wrote:

                                    >

                                    >

                                    > In a message dated 3/1/2011 10:49:50 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

                                    > eugnostos2000@... writes:

                                    >

                                    > Hi Ken. As with all the precepts, on one level it refers to

                                    > martial arts, while on another, deeper level it refers to Zen.

                                    > I would like to talk about A. The Zenrin says that What Is is

                                    > "like an eye that sees, but cannot see itself, like a sword that

                                    > cuts, but cannot cut itself." What is it that the eye cannot see?

                                    > The Seer. Just as the eye cannot see itself, but can only see it's

                                    > reflection in a mirror, so What Is cannot see itself, only It's

                                    > reflections as us. But we misidentify our true Self with the

                                    > reflections. and this, of course, is also the meaning of The

                                    > Living Jesus saying, "I shall give you what no eye has seen,

                                    > what no ear has heard, what no hand has touched, and what has

                                    > never occurred to the human mind." IMO.

                                    > Steve

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    > I really appreciate your analyses from your knowledge of Zen, Steve.

                                    > Thanks!

                                    >

                                    > Rosalie



                                    I agree. The different viewpoint makes things clearer. IMO.



                                    Ken

























                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • rosiolady@aol.com
                                    In a message dated 3/2/2011 11:31:55 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, bbferrier@yahoo.com writes: Concepts may become clearer from different perspectives much the
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Mar 2, 2011
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                                      In a message dated 3/2/2011 11:31:55 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                                      bbferrier@... writes:

                                      Concepts may become clearer from different perspectives much the same as
                                      vision.


                                      I hadn't thought of that, but I like it--makes sense. Please do write
                                      some more when you've mulled it over, Bob :-)

                                      Rosalie


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Todd Settimo
                                      IMO, the mind will spin its word-laden thoughts endlessly. It s what it does. There is no stopping it. I am aware that anything I observe is Not-I. That
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Mar 2, 2011
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                                        IMO, the mind will spin its word-laden thoughts endlessly. It's what it
                                        does. There is no stopping it. I am aware that anything I observe is
                                        Not-I. That leaves observing itself. When I relentlessly hew to
                                        'observing observation'; when attention is given to that alone, the
                                        word-laden thoughts spun out by the mind's mill lessen in importance and
                                        go less and less observed until what's left is the silence of Self; and
                                        it's in that silence that a shift in perception occurs - so very much
                                        like the well-known optical illusion of the picture of the old woman
                                        which simultaneously contains a picture of a horse (...or is it a
                                        picture of a horse which simultaneously contains a picture of an old
                                        woman...?); so very much like the moment when one sees the one picture
                                        holding two images.

                                        Your awareness may vary, of course.


                                        Best,
                                        Todd

                                        http://www.bagendpress.com
                                        http://www.amazon.com

                                        The true meaning of life is to plant trees, under whose shade you do not
                                        expect to sit.
                                        --Nelson Henderson

                                        On 3/2/2011 11:31 AM, old bob wrote:
                                        > Our blind spot hides itself from our awareness, but by not changing
                                        > fucus, realizing its there and not moving our head, we can actually
                                        > locate it.
                                      • old bob
                                        You bet. Several postings here have encouraged me to pursue this line of thought. I bet you will have some intuitive thoughts on this line too. old bob --.-
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Mar 2, 2011
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                                          You bet. Several postings here have encouraged me to pursue this line of thought.
                                          I bet you will have some intuitive thoughts on this line too.
                                          old bob
                                          --.-


                                          --- On Wed, 3/2/11, rosiolady@... <rosiolady@...> wrote:

                                          From: rosiolady@... <rosiolady@...>
                                          Subject: Re: [GnosticThought] Re: "The Eight Precepts of Quanfa"-7
                                          To: GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com
                                          Date: Wednesday, March 2, 2011, 11:52 AM







                                           











                                          In a message dated 3/2/2011 11:31:55 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

                                          bbferrier@... writes:



                                          Concepts may become clearer from different perspectives much the same as

                                          vision.



                                          I hadn't thought of that, but I like it--makes sense. Please do write

                                          some more when you've mulled it over, Bob :-)



                                          Rosalie



                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

























                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • SteveW
                                          ... Hi Ken. I think words must end here. The Watcher can never step outside of Itself in order to look at Itself. But the Watcher can rest in It s own
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Mar 2, 2011
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                                            --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "banderaken" <bandera_ken@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "SteveW" <eugnostos2000@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "banderaken" <bandera_ken@> wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "SteveW" <eugnostos2000@> wrote:
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "banderaken" <bandera_ken@> wrote:
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > Seventh Precept:
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > (A.) See what is unseeable.
                                            > > > > > (B.) The eyes do not miss even the slightest change.
                                            > > > > > (C.) The eye must see every way.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > What does the seventh precept say to you?
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > Hi again, Ken. Now I would like to say something about B.
                                            > > > > The First Sign of Being in Buddhism is Annica, constant change.
                                            > > > > On the phenomenal plane everything is changing. In meditation
                                            > > > > we see that sensations, thoughts, images and feelings are
                                            > > > > constantly arising and passing away. But if one is very, very,
                                            > > > > VERY alert, one will notice momentary gaps or spaces in between
                                            > > > > moments of phenomenal change. In deep samadhi (absorption) these
                                            > > > > gaps or spaces lengthen. What Is abides in the spaces between
                                            > > > > changing phenomena. It is your Original Face before your parents
                                            > > > > were born. IMO.
                                            > > > > Steve
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Hi Steve,
                                            > > > Look for the gap. Read between the lines of your thoughts. But don't think about it or it won't be a gap?
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Ken
                                            > >
                                            > > Easier said than done!;-)
                                            > > Who is doing it?
                                            > > Steve
                                            >
                                            > Hi Steve,
                                            > Right, it is easy to say but very difficult to do.
                                            >
                                            > Who is doing it? The Watcher? I still haven't figured out who or what the Watcher is. Is the Gap the Watcher watching itself?
                                            >
                                            > Ken

                                            Hi Ken. I think words must end here. The Watcher can never step
                                            outside of Itself in order to look at Itself. But the Watcher can
                                            rest in It's own Beingness. And that is what we do when we wake-up
                                            from the dream of separateness, of two hands clapping. A Vedantic
                                            Hindu might call it The Self, while a Mahayana Buddhist might call
                                            it The Void, but all words are beside the point. "Can you not hear
                                            the birds sing? Can you not feel the breeze upon your face? Who is
                                            not already enlightened?!" IMO.
                                            Steve
                                            >
                                          • banderaken
                                            ... Hi Steve, Yeah, words must end on the edge of that which cannot be expressed in words. However as you have pointed out with the quote, we can experience
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Mar 3, 2011
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                                              --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "SteveW" <eugnostos2000@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Hi Ken. I think words must end here. The Watcher can never step
                                              > outside of Itself in order to look at Itself. But the Watcher can
                                              > rest in It's own Beingness. And that is what we do when we wake-up
                                              > from the dream of separateness, of two hands clapping. A Vedantic
                                              > Hindu might call it The Self, while a Mahayana Buddhist might call
                                              > it The Void, but all words are beside the point. "Can you not hear
                                              > the birds sing? Can you not feel the breeze upon your face? Who is
                                              > not already enlightened?!" IMO.
                                              > Steve

                                              Hi Steve,
                                              Yeah, words must end on the edge of "that which cannot be expressed in words." However as you have pointed out with the quote, we can experience it in the songs of birds and the breeze on our faces. Also in music and art, IMO.

                                              Ken
                                            • rosiolady@aol.com
                                              In a message dated 3/3/2011 11:48:27 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, bandera_ken@texas.usa.com writes: Hi Steve, Yeah, words must end on the edge of that which
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Mar 3, 2011
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                                                In a message dated 3/3/2011 11:48:27 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                                                bandera_ken@... writes:

                                                Hi Steve,
                                                Yeah, words must end on the edge of "that which cannot be expressed in
                                                words." However as you have pointed out with the quote, we can experience it
                                                in the songs of birds and the breeze on our faces. Also in music and art,
                                                IMO.

                                                Ken



                                                You are both so right, IMO! Also, occasionally in even a routine
                                                meditation, all unexpected, can come a "block" of identifying purely with What
                                                Is--pretty rare and even more wonderful than it is rare. Even if the
                                                experience seems brief, the effect seems to be longlasting, at least for me.

                                                Rosalie


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