Re: [GnosticThought] Re: Fw: Fwd: Transmigration of Souls
- In a message dated 10/31/01 9:34:51 PM Central Standard Time,
> Why is it that we can easily accept the unconditional love of a pet,
> yet see the "Invisible Spirit" as judgemental? How about the idea
> that is it US who judge us, It is WE who decide if we "passed or
> failed" a particular lesson. True we can join into one soul, which
> makes the phrase "E PLURIBUS UNIM" so attractive. Yet each soul, or
> spark is of the devine and an entity onto itself, we never loose our
> personality, just the negativity.
> It is in loosing the negativity that I bring up this whole issue, and
> (forgive me) disagree with the judging part. No one on this Earth
> will ever judge me as harshly as I do, I know me better than any
> human can, and The Devine "invisible Spirit" is, as the lords prayer
> says in the beginning "OUR FATHER".
> It is my belief that we are all held in esteem for having come here
> in the first place.
> Thanks for your time and patience
> Blessing to you all
I think it is we who judges ourselves. In fact I believe an important lesson
is for us to learn is to quit judging ourselves.
I also agree that we are part of the All, we will merge back into the All
consciousness, but we will retain our individual identities. This I remember
from my contact with the Gnosis and I believe it is a true memory.
- David, you say:
Why is it that we can easily accept the unconditional love of a
pet, yet see the "Invisible Spirit" as that is it US who judge
us, It is WE who decide if we "passed or failed" a particular
Dear David -
As a Celt by blood (Scots/Irish) although English by education,
may I say how much your words resounded with me.
'Give us the boy,' the Jesuits used to say (and probably still
do) 'and we'll give you the man,' locked and loaded with guilt,
self-doubt, uncertainty and fear, certain only of their state
I have found my faith (although not 'born again') in the
Divine Love and Light, and whereas I consciously try to keep my
posts somewhat objective and impersonal, they are underwritten
(to me at least) with a devotion to my tradition that is a mere
shadow of the devotion the Father of my tradition holds for me.
Were it otherwise I might all too easily slip into a Celtic
sentimentality, and I reserve my passion for my friends, and my
rage for those who perpetuate an injustice (dare one say a
perversion) against the tradition of my blood, especially those
who are entrusted with its keep and its continuance.
As my mother often says, walking away from mass on a Sunday,
"Why doesn't he just say God loves us?" To her such is a truth
she knows with a depth and certitude I find enviable.
So while I continue in my metaphysical labour with a lightness
of heart, I look forward to the day when I can rest from my
labours, secure in the knowing that I love and am loved in
return; my feet up before a roaring log fire, a glass of
Bushmills Black Label in my hand, and a pair of Irish
Wolfhounds dozing at my feet.
Thanks again for the reminder and the inspiration,
- --- In GnosticThought@y..., GeorgeHarvey2621@c... wrote:
> Hi Dave,important lesson
> I think it is we who judges ourselves. In fact I believe an
> is for us to learn is to quit judging ourselves.the All
> I also agree that we are part of the All, we will merge back into
> consciousness, but we will retain our individual identities. This Iremember
> from my contact with the Gnosis and I believe it is a true memory.Hi George,
The problem with judging is the problem of who is doing the judging.
Judging should be done from the spirit and not from the soul. The
Soul is interested in good and evil, right and wrong, and justice.
The spirit has only the one law of love. For correct judging to take
place, the soul must place itself under the one law of the spirit.
- --- In GnosticThought@y..., thomas@t... wrote:
> So while I continue in my metaphysical labour with a lightnessThank you, you honor me.
> of heart, I look forward to the day when I can rest from my
> labours, secure in the knowing that I love and am loved in
> return; my feet up before a roaring log fire, a glass of
> Bushmills Black Label in my hand, and a pair of Irish
> Wolfhounds dozing at my feet.
> Thanks again for the reminder and the inspiration,
I like the picture you paint, sounds like a great peace to be in.
I am American, the living defintion of an American. My ancestory is
of German, French, Swedish, and Potowatomi (A native American tribe
from the great lakes region). The native American flute and the drums
are a sound that reaches into my soul. I also love a good Celtic
fiddle, have a couple of tapes, so I believe that if you get a chance
to hear some native American flute, it may reach out to you as well.
Being of such a heritage meant dealing with the concept that people
from my dads side of the tree, subjugated people from my mothers
side. I had a lot of lessons to learn to get past that thought, and
in so doing found myself. I learned to take the best of both worlds
and learn to deal with the least of either. So the mention of passion
and rage are not lost on me, check the character types listed and
you'll see people tpyically associated with some strong feelings.
It is also interesting that we always mention passion and rage
together, for where would rage be if we were not passionate? Both
sides of the same coin as I see it.
So my friend, and friends, thanks for the possitive response, I
apprecaite it. I love a good arguement but it is good, no, GREAT to
know we help each other along and give strength while at the same
time testing our beliefs and checking our resolve.
Blessings to you and yours
- Hi Joe
I have not come across the concept that the soul is a different entity to the
spirit in the context you use.
Perhaps someone could point me in the direction of a little more reading on
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- --- In GnosticThought@y..., Gnosijoe@a... wrote:
> Hi Joeentity to the
> I have not come across the concept that the soul is a different
> spirit in the context you use.reading on
> Perhaps someone could point me in the direction of a little more
> this.Hi Gnosijoe,
> Please. Thanks
(What follows is basically the same post that I have recently posted
on several other lists, so I appologize to anybody who's already read
it for the cross-posting, but it is pertinent to the subject matter of
this list, and it does directly answer the question asked).
Words are weird things. Especially words like soul and spirit, words
that describe things which aren't all that apparent. You can't see a
soul, so how can you know if it's really there (you might believe it's
there, but simple belief doesn't count for anything). When I use a
word like soul I can never tell if the person I'm having a
conversation with is speaking about the same 'soul' as I'm speaking
Lately I've become interested in the Valentinian system. One problem
with the Valentinian system is that most of what we know about it
comes from people who were opposed to Valentinus (the second
century Gnostic) and so presented his system in a harsh light.
According to his detractors, Valentinus divided mankind into three
kinds of people, the Hylics (slaves who had no souls), Psychics
(people who had souls) and Pneumatics (people who had spirit).
Psychic is from the Greek for Soul, Pneumatic is from the Greek for
spirit (or breath), Hylic is from the Greek for matter (or wood).
According to this system spirit was better than soul.
When I first read about this system I didn't like it. First because I
thought it was elitist, who was Valentinus to say that some people
didn't have souls. And secondly because I had trouble distinguishing
between soul and spirit. In our culture soul and spirit are usually
used as interchangeably with neither being very well defined.
However Valentinus' system of Hylics, Psychics and Pneumatics fell
into place when I realized that he wasn't talking about external
people, but was talking about internal aspects of each of us. Each of
us consists of Hylics, Psychics and Pneumatics.
Hylics, Psychics, and Pneumatics
This is not just a description of what exists outside of us, all three
also exist inside of us. The Hylics and the psychics are the many
little 'I's' which compete for power within ourselves.
The Hylics are the 'natural' parts of our selves. They are the
natural man (or woman). There is nothing wrong with the Hylics (most
of the time), they are not necessarily evil or immoral, they are
amoral. The Hylics are genetically programmed aspects of each of us.
The Hylics respond to external stimuli, to Hunger, to heat and cold,
to sexual attraction; to all genetically programmed responses.
The Psychics are our moral selves. They keep the Hylics in line. The
Psychics are the 'social' parts of our selves; they allow us to live
in society. Laws, rules, and regulations apply to Psychics. The
Psychics (or souls) are the social; the societal programmed aspects in
each of us. Our soul is our morality; it allows us to function inside
of society. The soul is interested in matters of good and evil, right
and wrong. The soul rules over the Hylic, it keeps it in line. The
soul keeps the Hylic from acting on any impulse it might happen to
have. People with very weak souls, or malfunctioning souls are
sociopaths (or sometimes psychopaths). But people with
over-functioning souls are the fundamentalist, the people for whom
'law has become all-important, for these people obey a law becomes the
same as being good. What the law is doesn't matter, the fact that it
is a law (especially if it is a 'God ordained' law) is all that
counts. The soul can become a tyrant.
Now spirit is something completely different. Everybody has both the
Hylic and the Psychic (the body and soul), even the sociopaths and
fundamentalist. However the spirit, the pneuma, seems to be asleep in
most of us most of the time. I think everybody has spirit, but most
people never realize it. The soul is interested in good and evil, but
the spirit isn't. The Pneumatic (spirit) is our true selves. The
pneumatic is that part of our self that is beyond the natural or the
social. The Hylics and the Psychics are plural; the Pneumatic is
Different people tend to center themselves around different 'I's'.
Some people spend most of their time among the Hylics; some people
spend most of their time among the psychics; and a very few center
themselves in the Pneumatic.
Most often the Pneumatic is asleep. I do not know why this is so. I
do not know if this is the way we are born, or if the Pneumatic falls
asleep in early childhood.
In Genesis we learn that God put Adam to sleep. It is important to
note that although we are told that God put Adam to sleep, we are
never told that God woke Adam up. After being put to sleep Adam is
divided (Adam becomes Adam and Eve). Adam (and Eve) eats from the
tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil. This Tree represents the law.
It is morality. It represents our societal conditioning.
The Hylic recognizes no law.
The Psychic recognizes a million and one laws.
The spirit only recognizes the law of love. As Jesus said "'Love the
Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all
your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the
second is like it: `Love your neighbor as yourself.' (Matthew
22:37-39). Of course this is something of a paradox (just like that
damn one hand that keeps clapping) how can love be commanded? Either
love is there or it's not.
When the Spirit awakens the Body and Soul still remain, the Spirit
doesn't supplant the Body or the Soul. The soul is still interested
in good and evil, and right and wrong, but know instead of looking to
outside laws authority to find out what these are, it looks to the
Spirit to inform it, and the Spirit acts though it's one law of love.
- Many thanks Joe for your missive on Soul/Spirit.
I am still "hung up" on the concept that i have a soul, and that the soul is
spirit. However this may well be emotion, ego or worse!
I have taken a print of your E-mail and will re read it at leisure and see
whether I can gain some better understanding in time.
Again many thanks.
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